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Any doubts on 2nd gen TLX for 2020?

 
Old 02-12-2019, 10:54 AM
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Don't think anything under 2.0 is a good deal for a street car. You can get a 1.5L up to power, Formula 1 had 1.5L V6 turbos but it takes a lot of RPM.

BMW 1.5L F1 engine, power unknown. Dyno maxed out at 1,280BHP but the engine was not done making power. Est 1,400BHP by Brabham. Nelson Piquet became the first driver to win the World Championship with a turbo powered car using this engine.

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Old 02-12-2019, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Midnight Mystery View Post
Really! What is the Tucson's upgrade engine for 2019, then?


I liked the turbo Tucson, but IDK why they dropped the 2.0 for the 1.6 a few years ago.

The 1.6 Optima seems cool, however. Too bad it only comes on the base.
The 2.4 is the engine in the higher trims with !81 hp (vs 161 on the 2.0) and 178 lb ft of torque. They offer the 1.6 turbo on the upper trims of the Kona.
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Old 02-13-2019, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mapleloaf View Post
Deviating further from the original topic, but with an eye towards ta new Turbo TLX, has anyone else noticed that Hyundai just killed the 1.6 Turbo option in its 2019 Tucson. Citing underwhelming fuel economy and maintenance costs. Interesting , is this a crack in the relentless worship of turbos or is Hyundai simply just trying to cut costs and actually improve fuel economy? Going with a 2.0 and 2.4 GDI engines.
I read somewhere that that engine had some issues and was not recommended... Also interesting that Toyota's new engines are also non-turbo "dynamic force engines".
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:10 PM
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I expect a $3500ish price increase on the base 2.0t TLX vs the current base TLX 2.4 and the fully loaded Type-S 3.0 turbo should be in the $53-55K range which is still MUCH less expensive than comparably equipped European cars. Given it will be on an all new Acura sedan platform (no Honda relation here) with front double wishbones, TrueTouch infotainment, possible optional Precision Cockpit infotainment, much, MUCH better interior materials, wood/aluminum, updated IDS, adaptive dampers, front 6 piston Brembo’s on Type-S, Type-S exclusive wheels, seats, door panels, steering wheel, interior trim, ELS Studio 3D audio, available SH-AWD on the 2.0t, standard SH-AWD on the Type-S, 10AT, all new DOHC, iVTEC, 3.0 V6 single turbo with an all new VTEC system we’ve never seen before (similar to Porsche’s Variocam), with a possible 48 volt system with an e-Motor for the turbo for instant spool characteristics.......
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Old 02-14-2019, 12:40 AM
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Talking

Originally Posted by SuperHandlingTL View Post
I expect a $3500ish price increase on the base 2.0t TLX vs the current base TLX 2.4 and the fully loaded Type-S 3.0 turbo should be in the $53-55K range which is still MUCH less expensive than comparably equipped European cars. Given it will be on an all new Acura sedan platform (no Honda relation here) with front double wishbones, TrueTouch infotainment, possible optional Precision Cockpit infotainment, much, MUCH better interior materials, wood/aluminum, updated IDS, adaptive dampers, front 6 piston Bremboís on Type-S, Type-S exclusive wheels, seats, door panels, steering wheel, interior trim, ELS Studio 3D audio, available SH-AWD on the 2.0t, standard SH-AWD on the Type-S, 10AT, all new DOHC, iVTEC, 3.0 V6 single turbo with an all new VTEC system weíve never seen before (similar to Porscheís Variocam), with a possible 48 volt system with an e-Motor for the turbo for instant spool characteristics.......
Now that is pretty detailed "speculation"!
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperHandlingTL View Post
I expect a $3500ish price increase on the base 2.0t TLX vs the current base TLX 2.4 and the fully loaded Type-S 3.0 turbo should be in the $53-55K range which is still MUCH less expensive than comparably equipped European cars. Given it will be on an all new Acura sedan platform (no Honda relation here) with front double wishbones, TrueTouch infotainment, possible optional Precision Cockpit infotainment, much, MUCH better interior materials, wood/aluminum, updated IDS, adaptive dampers, front 6 piston Bremboís on Type-S, Type-S exclusive wheels, seats, door panels, steering wheel, interior trim, ELS Studio 3D audio, available SH-AWD on the 2.0t, standard SH-AWD on the Type-S, 10AT, all new DOHC, iVTEC, 3.0 V6 single turbo with an all new VTEC system weíve never seen before (similar to Porscheís Variocam), with a possible 48 volt system with an e-Motor for the turbo for instant spool characteristics.......
Not that I don't believe you, but where exactly are you getting this information from? I know you work for Lexus, but do you have industry informants that you're privy to?
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperHandlingTL View Post
I expect a $3500ish price increase on the base 2.0t TLX vs the current base TLX 2.4 and the fully loaded Type-S 3.0 turbo should be in the $53-55K range which is still MUCH less expensive than comparably equipped European cars. Given it will be on an all new Acura sedan platform (no Honda relation here) with front double wishbones, TrueTouch infotainment, possible optional Precision Cockpit infotainment, much, MUCH better interior materials, wood/aluminum, updated IDS, adaptive dampers, front 6 piston Bremboís on Type-S, Type-S exclusive wheels, seats, door panels, steering wheel, interior trim, ELS Studio 3D audio, available SH-AWD on the 2.0t, standard SH-AWD on the Type-S, 10AT, all new DOHC, iVTEC, 3.0 V6 single turbo with an all new VTEC system weíve never seen before (similar to Porscheís Variocam), with a possible 48 volt system with an e-Motor for the turbo for instant spool characteristics.......
I don't disagree and hope Acura will go all in and do all that. If so, their asking price is justified. We'll see how the market reacts to that though. I would think their volume model should be still under $40K (preferably mid to high $30Ks) to stay competitive.
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ZipSpeed View Post
Not that I don't believe you, but where exactly are you getting this information from? I know you work for Lexus, but do you have industry informants that you're privy to?
I recieved some detailed information (of which I cant show/post directly) well over a year ago about the TLX and Acuraís direction. I know a lot about the TLX-S, more than I should actually. My pricing was based on the fact that the TLX is moving up in its segment which would put the base car around $36,500 of which I think is competitive vs the 330i, A4 2.0t Quattro and C300 which all start a few grand higher with less equipment. I follow market trends and follow how Honda/Acura tend to deliver and execute product, combine that with the info I get and come up with my own assumptions which are usually pretty damn close. I know Iím pretty spot on when it comes to equipment/features, engines, SH-AWD etc etc as I can confirm that and I should be fairly close in price also.
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Old 02-15-2019, 01:14 PM
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SuperHandlingTL sounds like a credible poster from TOV and if so, nothing stated here wasnt before and will likely be very close to reality. Hopefully we will get confirmation at NY auto show, just hope Type S is 12 months max away and not 24 months like some rumors.
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Old 02-15-2019, 01:22 PM
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I am also anticipating the next generation TLX ,specifically the Type S. However, I will probably wait for the mid model refresh of the generation so that the bugs are all sorted out.
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Old 02-15-2019, 02:01 PM
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Historically, the Type S model came with the MMC version.
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Old 02-15-2019, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MIKEYDRED View Post
SuperHandlingTL sounds like a credible poster from TOV and if so, nothing stated here wasnt before and will likely be very close to reality. Hopefully we will get confirmation at NY auto show, just hope Type S is 12 months max away and not 24 months like some rumors.
Iím CivicB18 on TOV. I sent Jeff some info and a diagram last year. He posted it. Honda saw the info and tracked me down. They actually came to my place of employment to question my knowledge. It went over smoothly and I got to ride in the Honda attorneys 2018 NSX!!!
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Old 02-15-2019, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperHandlingTL View Post


Iím CivicB18 on TOV. I sent Jeff some info and a diagram last year. He posted it. Honda saw the info and tracked me down. They actually came to my place of employment to question my knowledge. It went over smoothly and I got to ride in the Honda attorneys 2018 NSX!!!
Bet that was interesting and perhaps some butt clenching.............
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Old 02-15-2019, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by NBP04TL4ME View Post
Bet that was interesting and perhaps some butt clenching.............
That was my thought, too. At least some of the buttclenching was legal, and some from the NC1's launch control? Having experienced the latter, launch control is...well..."ooooooooh fuuuuuuuuuuu..."

Welcome to AZ, CivicB18! I do recognize that handle from TOV.
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Old 02-15-2019, 08:29 PM
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Last go at a TypeS G3 was the last 2 or 3 years of production.
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Old 02-15-2019, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by NBP04TL4ME View Post
Bet that was interesting and perhaps some butt clenching.............
Honda was actually cool about it. No bad feelings at all....and that NSX experience was worth all of it.
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Old 02-15-2019, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
Last go at a TypeS G3 was the last 2 or 3 years of production.
2007-08 TL has the Type-S and after that.............................................. ...............................
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:05 PM
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I guess Acura felt that the 4G TL SH-AWD could fill that void, with its 25 extra hp and torque vectoring AWD system. I suppose the 4.5G 6MT was a last ditch effort to attract TL-S type buyers for that generation.
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Old 02-16-2019, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperHandlingTL View Post


Iím CivicB18 on TOV. I sent Jeff some info and a diagram last year. He posted it. Honda saw the info and tracked me down. They actually came to my place of employment to question my knowledge. It went over smoothly and I got to ride in the Honda attorneys 2018 NSX!!!
Yup, I figured it was you! Its interesting what occurred after the TOV post, Honda must have felt intellectual information was threatened.
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Old 02-16-2019, 04:48 PM
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And why can't the TLX get the same engine the NSX has?
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Mak P View Post
And why can't the TLX get the same engine the NSX has?
Because the TLX isn't an NSX.
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperHandlingTL View Post
I expect a $3500ish price increase on the base 2.0t TLX vs the current base TLX 2.4 and the fully loaded Type-S 3.0 turbo should be in the $53-55K range which is still MUCH less expensive than comparably equipped European cars. Given it will be on an all new Acura sedan platform (no Honda relation here) with front double wishbones, TrueTouch infotainment, possible optional Precision Cockpit infotainment, much, MUCH better interior materials, wood/aluminum, updated IDS, adaptive dampers, front 6 piston Bremboís on Type-S, Type-S exclusive wheels, seats, door panels, steering wheel, interior trim, ELS Studio 3D audio, available SH-AWD on the 2.0t, standard SH-AWD on the Type-S, 10AT, all new DOHC, iVTEC, 3.0 V6 single turbo with an all new VTEC system weíve never seen before (similar to Porscheís Variocam), with a possible 48 volt system with an e-Motor for the turbo for instant spool characteristics.......
A lot of the above items were what differentiated the 3rd gen type S over the TL. Seats, interior finishes, aluminum pedals, type S wheels, type S steering wheel and so on. I think most of us here expect those along with the turbo v6. An S5 premium plus quattro is sub 57K with virtual cockpit. 349hp and 4.4 seconds 0-60 and I think that is a twin turbo motor. The type S really should come in sub 50K or preferably several thousand less than that if they want to sell a quantity similar to the current RL sales. At 53 to 55k they will not be flying off the lots. I typically don't lease but getting into that range I probably would consider it more and then I don't have to worry about long term reliability and ownership costs of a German car. Although Acura seems to be rated less reliable these days than most cars but I don't believe that for the most part.
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperHandlingTL View Post


2007-08 TL has the Type-S and after that.............................................. ...............................
Really appreciate all the info. My 2015 IS350 F-Sport is paid off and I'm bored (Considering the G70 but holding off until the new TLX comes out). Any chance you have an estimate on how long after the initial launch of the new TLX you expect the Type-S?

Thanks!
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Old 02-16-2019, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mak P View Post
And why can't the TLX get the same engine the NSX has?
Maybe make a little effort to do some research and you will find out why that is a dumb question pretty quickly.
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mak P View Post
And why can't the TLX get the same engine the NSX has?
The NSX V6tt was designed specifically for the NSX and to sit longitudinally. Its also a 75 degree design and the components are manufactured by Cosworth. Its an expensive, race be design thatís way overbuilt and way too expensive like something for the TLX-S. The TLX-S will actually use iVTEC (an all new version) DOHCís, dual VTC, have 3.0 liters of displacement, chain driven cams, single turbo, 60 degree V and its designed to be use in transverse applications.
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Old 02-16-2019, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jhb31 View Post
A lot of the above items were what differentiated the 3rd gen type S over the TL. Seats, interior finishes, aluminum pedals, type S wheels, type S steering wheel and so on. I think most of us here expect those along with the turbo v6. An S5 premium plus quattro is sub 57K with virtual cockpit. 349hp and 4.4 seconds 0-60 and I think that is a twin turbo motor. The type S really should come in sub 50K or preferably several thousand less than that if they want to sell a quantity similar to the current RL sales. At 53 to 55k they will not be flying off the lots. I typically don't lease but getting into that range I probably would consider it more and then I don't have to worry about long term reliability and ownership costs of a German car. Although Acura seems to be rated less reliable these days than most cars but I don't believe that for the most part.
Sub $50k for a performance based, luxury sedan with a turbo V6? Keep in mind that Audi youíre speaking of isnít fully equipped at that price nor are the M340i or the C43 AMG. The current TLX Advance SH-AWD is around $47k so how would Acura make the Type-S fall under $50k? The Type-S will more than likely come fully equipped so a $53-55K fully equipped, itíll still have a solid value advantage vs the Europeans.
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperHandlingTL View Post


The NSX V6tt was designed specifically for the NSX and to sit longitudinally. Its also a 75 degree design and the components are manufactured by Cosworth. Its an expensive, race be design that’s way overbuilt and way too expensive like something for the TLX-S. The TLX-S will actually use iVTEC (an all new version) DOHC’s, dual VTC, have 3.0 liters of displacement, chain driven cams, single turbo, 60 degree V and its designed to be use in transverse applications.
Single Turbo? I was trying to find pro/cons of single vs twin turbo and found that single turbo helps with space savings but will take more time to spool, so a turbo lag. May be, they have decided to use 48v mild hybrid system to reduce/eliminate that turbo lag. Also think single turbo will be cheaper to make/maintain vs twin turbo.

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Old 02-17-2019, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperHandlingTL View Post


Sub $50k for a performance based, luxury sedan with a turbo V6? Keep in mind that Audi youíre speaking of isnít fully equipped at that price nor are the M340i or the C43 AMG. The current TLX Advance SH-AWD is around $47k so how would Acura make the Type-S fall under $50k? The Type-S will more than likely come fully equipped so a $53-55K fully equipped, itíll still have a solid value advantage vs the Europeans.
The Audi at that price is not the base model and has the virtual cockpit which most likely Acura will not have. The next prestige is 60k and has some items I doubt Acura will offer on a Type S. I believe Ikeda stated in the past the S will be performance oriented so it likely may not be "fully" equipped with all the luxury options the advance has. Just like the A-Spec is currently. 3rd Gen base to type-S difference was about 4.5k and you could probably say currently the A-Spec has most of the non-mechanical items to some degree a type S would have had if it had been released mid cycle on the current gen. That would still leave about 6k for the other upgrades.

Now if it comes with the virtual cockpit, heads up display in addition to all the luxury options the advance model has then I guess it pushes into the 50's. I may be wrong but I don't see a turbo adding huge costs to the car. Honda has had turbo's in their civics for years now that sell for about 20k (not saying it's the same but they have shown to be able to deliver it cost effective). Regardless if priced too high they will sit on lots and the discounts will eventually roll in. Hopefully they strike a balance with appointing the car well but keeping the cost to a level where they will move some units. Really wish they would 86 the RL and bring out a coupe. Can't be too hard to top RL sales numbers. Lexus, BMW and Audi all have nice performance coupes that are not NSX priced. Acura just for whatever reason threw up the white flag in that area years back and gave up.
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:37 AM
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I have some issues with the Audi Prestige pricing. $57K and you don't get leather seats (That's an extra $1K). Also, if you want cooled seats you lose the sport seats plus another $800 for 19s (At this price point I think it should be standard). Sport package (Rear differential) is another $2,500 (Need to make it comparable to the SH-AWD). Even at $55K, the TLX-S would be a bargain. I'm thinking with the release of the G70 topping out with the sport at $52,495 (With delivery) I'm thinking the bottom end of the spread that SuperHandlingTL is estimating. Based on the new RDX and if it comes with everything above and they're testing it against a 349 HP S4 and a 385 HP C43 then I'm in.
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:43 AM
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It will be a FWD based sedan, that's why they don't put twin turbo on the new V6 (although Ford has been doing this for years on their FWD Lincolns)

48V is definitely in the plays in order to eliminate turbo lags and to keep up with Audi S4 and Volvo S60.
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Old 02-18-2019, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MSZ View Post
(although Ford has been doing this for years on their FWD Lincolns)

Ford has been doing it for years on the Ford branded vehicles as well (Taurus SHO, Fusion Sport, Edge ST), not only Lincolns.

I do not want to doubt SuperHandlingTL but, call me skeptical, I will believe in this super TLX when I will see it at dealerships....if even a fully fledged luxury marque such as Lexus is considering the discontinuing of the GS and IS.....
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by alpha0 View Post
Single Turbo? I was trying to find pro/cons of single vs twin turbo and found that single turbo helps with space savings but will take more time to spool, so a turbo lag. May be, they have decided to use 48v mild hybrid system to reduce/eliminate that turbo lag. Also think single turbo will be cheaper to make/maintain vs twin turbo.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jhb31 View Post
The Audi at that price is not the base model and has the virtual cockpit which most likely Acura will not have. The next prestige is 60k and has some items I doubt Acura will offer on a Type S. I believe Ikeda stated in the past the S will be performance oriented so it likely may not be "fully" equipped with all the luxury options the advance has. Just like the A-Spec is currently. 3rd Gen base to type-S difference was about 4.5k and you could probably say currently the A-Spec has most of the non-mechanical items to some degree a type S would have had if it had been released mid cycle on the current gen. That would still leave about 6k for the other upgrades.

Now if it comes with the virtual cockpit, heads up display in addition to all the luxury options the advance model has then I guess it pushes into the 50's. I may be wrong but I don't see a turbo adding huge costs to the car. Honda has had turbo's in their civics for years now that sell for about 20k (not saying it's the same but they have shown to be able to deliver it cost effective). Regardless if priced too high they will sit on lots and the discounts will eventually roll in. Hopefully they strike a balance with appointing the car well but keeping the cost to a level where they will move some units. Really wish they would 86 the RL and bring out a coupe. Can't be too hard to top RL sales numbers. Lexus, BMW and Audi all have nice performance coupes that are not NSX priced. Acura just for whatever reason threw up the white flag in that area years back and gave up.
Look up Precision Cockpit this will either debut with the next gen TLX and/or the next gen MDX. The TLX-S wont be overpriced as value has always been at the core of the Acura brand. Coupes? A fully loaded RC 350 F-Sport is around $54K and has a 307hp 3.5 V6. A fully loaded S4, 340i, Q50RS. C43 AMG etc etc are over $60k.
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:02 AM
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Since the TLX is going to start at 36K and move up in the market (which I think is great), does this mean they're plans to redesign the ILX? I can't believe it's still on the same platform as 2013.......

They also need to do something with the RLX. 2019 and it still doesn't have AC or AA.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Curious3GTL View Post
Since the TLX is going to start at 36K and move up in the market (which I think is great), does this mean they're plans to redesign the ILX? I can't believe it's still on the same platform as 2013.......

They also need to do something with the RLX. 2019 and it still doesn't have AC or AA.
The RLX and ILX donít move much volume so Acura wanted to revamp their volume sellers first. RDX, TLX then the MDX. After they get their full makeovers, the ILX and RLX will get theirs.
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Old 02-20-2019, 12:29 AM
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I wonder if the bread and butter version of the new TLX could be the turbo 4 with the right transmission, perhaps the current very smooth 8 DCT or the 7 DCT from the RLX, rather than the 10 speed and a nice 250-275 HP, 250+ torque and good fuel economy?
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mapleloaf View Post
I wonder if the bread and butter version of the new TLX could be the turbo 4 with the right transmission, perhaps the current very smooth 8 DCT or the 7 DCT from the RLX, rather than the 10 speed and a nice 250-275 HP, 250+ torque and good fuel economy?
The 7DCT from the RLX Sport Hybrid is designed specifically for the Sport Hybrid system which is why the RLX Sport Hybrid and MDX Sport Hybrid are the only models currently that use it. The 8DCT cant handle the torque of the 2.0t. Here’s how the 2020 TLX will be offered:
- 2.0t/10AT FWD
-2.0t/10AT SH-AWD
-2.0t/???? Hybrid FWD (we wont see the Hybrid until the refresh)
-3.0t/10AT SH-AWD Type-S

The 2.0t in the TLX should be identical to the 272hp unit in the RDX.
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Old 02-20-2019, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperHandlingTL View Post


The 7DCT from the RLX Sport Hybrid is designed specifically for the Sport Hybrid system which is why the RLX Sport Hybrid and MDX Sport Hybrid are the only models currently that use it. The 8DCT cant handle the torque of the 2.0t. Hereís how the 2020 TLX will be offered:
- 2.0t/10AT FWD
-2.0t/10AT SH-AWD
-2.0t/???? Hybrid FWD (we wont see the Hybrid until the refresh)
-3.0t/10AT SH-AWD Type-S

The 2.0t in the TLX should be identical to the 272hp unit in the RDX.
As we hear much here about the quickness of the Audi 4 with 248 HP and 273 lbs of torque, I would be happy with a more fuel efficient version of the 2.0 with FWD, appealing more to the current 2.4 users and similar to the Audi numbers. Any chance they might do that?


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Old 02-20-2019, 08:57 AM
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Good news is NYIAS is now less than two months away.
Press Preview – 4/17/19-4/18/19
Public Show Dates – 4/19/19-4/28/19

Also, was just on Acura.com and they are advertising Grand Prix of Long Beach 4/12/19-4/14/19. Wonder if we could see a special pace car?

Last edited by CollinR4; 02-20-2019 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 02-20-2019, 11:12 AM
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Do you see Type S RDX released at the same time as TLX Type S?
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