Any doubts on 2nd gen TLX for 2020? Err...make that 2021?
#241
The next gen TLX 2.0t will compete against the 252hp A4 with the Type-S competing against the Audi S4 Quattro.
#243
There are four lights!
#244
Moderator
Interesting. I thought they already committed to a Type-S for the popular models. Frankly given the sales trends I would think an RDX Type-S would have a better chance at success than a TLX Type-S.
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F23A4 (02-21-2019)
#245
As someone looking at the SQ5 and X3 M40i, I’d be very very interested in a 350+ HP RDX.
#246
Senior Moderator
Honestly, I’d be far more interested in an RDX-S than a TLX-S.
#247
I actually......just heard a STRONG rumor that eventually all Acura models will have a Type-S variant. That means the current RDX, next gen TLX (we already knew that), next gen MDX, next gen ILX and next gen RLX will get Type-S variants with an NSX-R as the top dog.
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a35tl (02-21-2019)
#248
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I was told almost 2 years back that every Acura model will have a type-S version. TLX from what I was told was most likely a 11/2020 release date as a 2021 model (not a hard date but most likely) from what my local GM was told when he brought the question up to their corporate rep. I didn't inquire on the RDX but I would guess it would be also out around that same time. or as a mid cycle update on the RDX shortly thereafter. From what I read on the RDX forums the new RDX has infotainment issues and also some chronic suspension noise in colder weather. Neither of those issues has a TSB yet but I guess it's typical problems of buying early of a new model. Also some reports of some hard shifting issues on the RDX forums.
Holding off a year on the Type S variant of the TLX seems like a good idea so they can't work out the kinks that will come along with a new model release of the TLX.
Holding off a year on the Type S variant of the TLX seems like a good idea so they can't work out the kinks that will come along with a new model release of the TLX.
Last edited by jhb31; 02-21-2019 at 04:54 PM.
#249
I was told almost 2 years back that every Acura model will have a type-S version. TLX from what I was told was most likely a 11/2020 release date as a 2021 model (not a hard date but most likely) from what my local GM was told when he brought the question up to their corporate rep. I didn't inquire on the RDX but I would guess it would be also out around that same time. or as a mid cycle update on the RDX shortly thereafter. From what I read on the RDX forums the new RDX has infotainment issues and also some chronic suspension noise in colder weather. Neither of those issues has a TSB yet but I guess it's typical problems of buying early of a new model. Also some reports of some hard shifting issues on the RDX forums.
Holding off a year on the Type S variant of the TLX seems like a good idea so they can't work out the kinks that will come along with a new model release of the TLX.
Holding off a year on the Type S variant of the TLX seems like a good idea so they can't work out the kinks that will come along with a new model release of the TLX.
#250
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Agree, the type-S will not be a mid cycle update but the following year which will be a departure from the past for Acura. Hopefully any kinks in the 2nd gen TLX will be worked by the time an S is available. I don't think it will be in the 50K range though. They will likely cut some premium options off the type S and replace that cost with brake and engine/trans changes. The type-S 3rd gen was a great car but did not sell well. From my own observations owing one it was rare to see one versus a non type S model back in 2007 and going forward. A lot on the forums want it but the number of people who will pay up for a new one is limited which is all the better. The 07/08 type S resale even to this day covers the premium paid for that cost.
#251
Three Wheelin'
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I suspect you are correct is correct that they will go with the one engine option to start, using the 2.0 Turbo as the only initial engine, with either FWD or SH-AWD. More economical for Acura and also provides more time to perfect the 3.0 Turbo with the new body and transmission. However, I would love to see two initial options, one with the 3.0 Turbo with 325-350 HP with SH-AWD only. That would presume that they had sufficiently perfected that engine transmission body combination. That would help sales to those that want the additional power and torque and allow them to make the 2.0 with a more conservative 250ish HP to still appeal to the 2.4 and some of the 3.5 drivers, in both FWD and SH-AWD. Then you bring out a 375-400 HP 3.0 turbo S model for the next model year.
Whatever they do, they need to ensure that there are no major flaws with respect to transmission setup, vibration, etc.
Whatever they do, they need to ensure that there are no major flaws with respect to transmission setup, vibration, etc.
#252
Agree, the type-S will not be a mid cycle update but the following year which will be a departure from the past for Acura. Hopefully any kinks in the 2nd gen TLX will be worked by the time an S is available. I don't think it will be in the 50K range though. They will likely cut some premium options off the type S and replace that cost with brake and engine/trans changes. The type-S 3rd gen was a great car but did not sell well. From my own observations owing one it was rare to see one versus a non type S model back in 2007 and going forward. A lot on the forums want it but the number of people who will pay up for a new one is limited which is all the better. The 07/08 type S resale even to this day covers the premium paid for that cost.
The current top spec TLX V6 SH-AWD is around $47K. A performance model would obviously more expensive so that car as it sits in the next notch up in the segment yet it’ll still be less expensive by good margin vs comparably equipped European offerings like the Audi S4 Quattro, Benz C43 AMG and the BMW M340i. Those cars fully equipped are over $60K. I’m estimating the Type-S in the $53-55K range max as Acura’s have always had a solid value equation as that’s one of their core elements. Also the new car will have even more standard/optional features vs the current, better materials, better paint, better build quality and it may possibly debut the Precision Cockpit technology which is similar to Audi’s Virtual Cockpit. If that tech doesn’t debut in the TLX, it’ll definitely be in the next gen MDX.
The TLX-S will also debut some drivetrain weight saving measures we haven’t seen since the 05 RL. I cant talk specifics but if you know anything about that particular SH-AWD iteration which was unique to the RL, you should be able to guess what I’m talking about.
I recieved some info last year about the TLX. I wish I could post everything I have but I’m not at liberty to do so as I don’t need Honda up my ass again. However, from what I’m hearing combined with the information I recieved last year, the TLX will be quite impressive and a MASSIVE leap forward vs the current car.
Last edited by SuperHandlingTL; 02-22-2019 at 04:46 AM.
#253
I suspect you are correct is correct that they will go with the one engine option to start, using the 2.0 Turbo as the only initial engine, with either FWD or SH-AWD. More economical for Acura and also provides more time to perfect the 3.0 Turbo with the new body and transmission. However, I would love to see two initial options, one with the 3.0 Turbo with 325-350 HP with SH-AWD only. That would presume that they had sufficiently perfected that engine transmission body combination. That would help sales to those that want the additional power and torque and allow them to make the 2.0 with a more conservative 250ish HP to still appeal to the 2.4 and some of the 3.5 drivers, in both FWD and SH-AWD. Then you bring out a 375-400 HP 3.0 turbo S model for the next model year.
Whatever they do, they need to ensure that there are no major flaws with respect to transmission setup, vibration, etc.
Whatever they do, they need to ensure that there are no major flaws with respect to transmission setup, vibration, etc.
- 272hp 2.0t/10AT FWD
- 272hp 2.0t/10AT SH-AWD
- ???hp 2.0t/10?? FWD hybrid
- 370ish 3.0t/10AT SH-AWD (Type-S)
There will be no middle engine offered as there’s really no needs for it. Also, the Germans volume is with the BMW 330, A4 2.0t Quattro and the C300. So a TLX 2.0t with 272hp would do well here and of course it’ll come better equipped for less money. Then we have the 3.0t Type-S which would go against the BMW M340i, Audi S4 Quattro and the Mercedes C43 AMG, again coming in better equipped for less money.
#254
The TLX-S will also debut some drivetrain weight saving measures we haven’t seen since the 05 RL. I cant talk specifics but if you know anything about that particular SH-AWD iteration which was unique to the RL, you should be able to guess what I’m talking about. Carbon Fiber Drive shaft?
#255
Next gen TLX:
- 272hp 2.0t/10AT FWD
- 272hp 2.0t/10AT SH-AWD
- ???hp 2.0t/10?? FWD hybrid
- 370ish 3.0t/10AT SH-AWD (Type-S)
There will be no middle engine offered as there’s really no needs for it. Also, the Germans volume is with the BMW 330, A4 2.0t Quattro and the C300. So a TLX 2.0t with 272hp would do well here and of course it’ll come better equipped for less money. Then we have the 3.0t Type-S which would go against the BMW M340i, Audi S4 Quattro and the Mercedes C43 AMG, again coming in better equipped for less money.
#256
The 8DCT wasn’t designed with big power in mind. It was designed around the K24 and 1.5t levels of power and torque capacity. The 10AT was designed around the 2.0t and a beefed up version is will be used for the 3.0t.
#257
6 Forward 1 Back
I haven't read up on issue with the 10AT. How has that been holding up with the Honda use and on the RDX?
#258
There are four lights!
Some owners experienced a hard shift between 2-3, of which I can confirm when I test drove the RDX. I think there is a software update to mitigate the hard shift. Otherwise, the 10AT looks to be a solid tranny so far vs. the ZF9. Seems like the biggest complaint that RDX owners are currently dealing with is that new snazzy infotainment system.
#259
Let's hope Acura offers proper tires on the 2020 SH AWD models rather than the 40 series tires that they fit on all versions for 2019. That is a non starter for the potholed roads in America today !! We don't need low profile tires exclusively for this car. Keep them on A Spec only. (and type S of course).
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acuranj18 (02-23-2019)
#260
I’m not sure where you’re getting your info but the 3G as a whole was the best selling Acura sedan to date with the 91-95 Legend coming in 2nd. Acura also sold every Type-S it made with no issue. In regards to what you see, you cant use that as reference as different vehicle applications sell better in certain regions and areas of the country vs others. Your own personal area doesn’t represent all areas.
The current top spec TLX V6 SH-AWD is around $47K. A performance model would obviously more expensive so that car as it sits in the next notch up in the segment yet it’ll still be less expensive by good margin vs comparably equipped European offerings like the Audi S4 Quattro, Benz C43 AMG and the BMW M340i. Those cars fully equipped are over $60K. I’m estimating the Type-S in the $53-55K range max as Acura’s have always had a solid value equation as that’s one of their core elements. Also the new car will have even more standard/optional features vs the current, better materials, better paint, better build quality and it may possibly debut the Precision Cockpit technology which is similar to Audi’s Virtual Cockpit. If that tech doesn’t debut in the TLX, it’ll definitely be in the next gen MDX.
The TLX-S will also debut some drivetrain weight saving measures we haven’t seen since the 05 RL. I cant talk specifics but if you know anything about that particular SH-AWD iteration which was unique to the RL, you should be able to guess what I’m talking about.
I recieved some info last year about the TLX. I wish I could post everything I have but I’m not at liberty to do so as I don’t need Honda up my ass again. However, from what I’m hearing combined with the information I recieved last year, the TLX will be quite impressive and a MASSIVE leap forward vs the current car.
#261
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I’m not sure where you’re getting your info but the 3G as a whole was the best selling Acura sedan to date with the 91-95 Legend coming in 2nd. Acura also sold every Type-S it made with no issue. In regards to what you see, you cant use that as reference as different vehicle applications sell better in certain regions and areas of the country vs others. Your own personal area doesn’t represent all areas.
The current top spec TLX V6 SH-AWD is around $47K. A performance model would obviously more expensive so that car as it sits in the next notch up in the segment yet it’ll still be less expensive by good margin vs comparably equipped European offerings like the Audi S4 Quattro, Benz C43 AMG and the BMW M340i. Those cars fully equipped are over $60K. I’m estimating the Type-S in the $53-55K range max as Acura’s have always had a solid value equation as that’s one of their core elements. Also the new car will have even more standard/optional features vs the current, better materials, better paint, better build quality and it may possibly debut the Precision Cockpit technology which is similar to Audi’s Virtual Cockpit. If that tech doesn’t debut in the TLX, it’ll definitely be in the next gen MDX.
The TLX-S will also debut some drivetrain weight saving measures we haven’t seen since the 05 RL. I cant talk specifics but if you know anything about that particular SH-AWD iteration which was unique to the RL, you should be able to guess what I’m talking about.
I recieved some info last year about the TLX. I wish I could post everything I have but I’m not at liberty to do so as I don’t need Honda up my ass again. However, from what I’m hearing combined with the information I recieved last year, the TLX will be quite impressive and a MASSIVE leap forward vs the current car.
#262
The 2nd gen SH-AWD in the 4GTL, 2G MDX and the 1G RDX SH-AWD all had electromagnetic clutches up until the 2014 MDX (which debuted the 3rd generation of the system). The TLX and 3G MDX moved to a hydraulic system which is lighter, more compact and cheaper to produce vs the electromagnetic systems. The 4th generation of SH-AWD debuted in the 3G RDX which is much more apparent in ordinary driving while being more reactive overall. It also has a more substantial rear diff that can handle more torque and vector more torque.
#263
The 2nd gen SH-AWD in the 4GTL, 2G MDX and the 1G RDX SH-AWD all had electromagnetic clutches up until the 2014 MDX (which debuted the 3rd generation of the system). The TLX and 3G MDX moved to a hydraulic system which is lighter, more compact and cheaper to produce vs the electromagnetic systems. The 4th generation of SH-AWD debuted in the 3G RDX which is much more apparent in ordinary driving while being more reactive overall. It also has a more substantial rear diff that can handle more torque and vector more torque.
"Acura SH-AWD: A Comprehensive Analysis"
http://youwheel.com/home/2017/05/07/...sive-analysis/
My understanding is that the current TLX SH_AWD is similar to an Haldex system with 2 clutch packs (one per wheel). The clutch packs now are now responsible for 100% of the workload transferring torque with potential overheating and wear issues down the road.
Last edited by 4G-Lover; 02-23-2019 at 12:03 AM.
#264
Let's hope Acura offers proper tires on the 2020 SH AWD models rather than the 40 series tires that they fit on all versions for 2019. That is a non starter for the potholed roads in America today !! We don't need low profile tires exclusively for this car. Keep them on A Spec only. (and type S of course).
#265
Three Wheelin'
Living in downtown Philly, I share this concern. Our roads are brutal during pothole season, so I'd like to see a something reasonable on the base TLX. On the other hand, modern suspension and tire technology can make aggressive packages ride better than they used to, and Honda seems to be doing a decent job. I discovered this when I tested a new Accord Sport in Philly. It rode beautifully, which bodes well for the next TLX. I was surprised at its ride quality, because I had tested a new Mazda 6 Grand Touring on the same roads, and found its ride unacceptably harsh on similar 19" wheels. The Mazda got scratched off the list immediately as a potential replacement for my 2010 TSX, but the Accord Sport is solidly in the running. (I will wait to learn about the new TLX before making a move, but without MT I won't be nearly as interested.)
#266
Advanced
Living in downtown Philly, I share this concern. Our roads are brutal during pothole season, so I'd like to see a something reasonable on the base TLX. On the other hand, modern suspension and tire technology can make aggressive packages ride better than they used to, and Honda seems to be doing a decent job. I discovered this when I tested a new Accord Sport in Philly. It rode beautifully, which bodes well for the next TLX. I was surprised at its ride quality, because I had tested a new Mazda 6 Grand Touring on the same roads, and found its ride unacceptably harsh on similar 19" wheels. The Mazda got scratched off the list immediately as a potential replacement for my 2010 TSX, but the Accord Sport is solidly in the running. (I will wait to learn about the new TLX before making a move, but without MT I won't be nearly as interested.)
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Pens Fan (02-24-2019)
#267
The RL has the 1st gen SH-AWD system as you stated and had components that weren’t present on the 2nd gen system. The acceleration device and the carbon driveshaft were exclusive to the RL.
The 2nd gen SH-AWD in the 4GTL, 2G MDX and the 1G RDX SH-AWD all had electromagnetic clutches up until the 2014 MDX (which debuted the 3rd generation of the system). The TLX and 3G MDX moved to a hydraulic system which is lighter, more compact and cheaper to produce vs the electromagnetic systems. The 4th generation of SH-AWD debuted in the 3G RDX which is much more apparent in ordinary driving while being more reactive overall. It also has a more substantial rear diff that can handle more torque and vector more torque.
#268
I drove the 1.5T, which is lighter and thus should ride slightly better than the 2.0T. Still, I was pleasantly surprised. (The power was surprisingly decent too.) Also, the tires make a huge difference. During the first few years with my old 2001 Saab 9-5 Aero, I damaged a few rims and regularly experienced loud "pothole explosions." I figured this was caused by the stiff suspension, but when I switched to Continental Extreme Contact tires, the problems stopped. I didn't damage another rim, and the "pothole explosions" disappeared. I drove happily for about 80k miles using those tires exclusively, and I've used them on my TSX for many years with no issues.
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ESHBG (02-24-2019)
#269
Senior Moderator
#270
My positive experiences with the Potenzas of my 16 was one reason why opted to go with the 19 version (base V6). They’re not the best performance tires but they do strike a respectable balance between performance, comfort and durability, not unlike the TLX V6 itself. (Jersey roads are pretty deficient but better than what I encounter in the city.)
#271
Some of the tire decisions from Honda/Acura are head scratchers, that’s for sure. For instance, Honda put 20 inch wheels on their new Passport that’s supposed to be rugged and off-roady (well, at least compared to the CRV and Pilot)
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Pens Fan (02-24-2019)
#273
Next gen TLX:
- 272hp 2.0t/10AT FWD
- 272hp 2.0t/10AT SH-AWD
- ???hp 2.0t/10?? FWD hybrid
- 370ish 3.0t/10AT SH-AWD (Type-S)
There will be no middle engine offered as there’s really no needs for it. Also, the Germans volume is with the BMW 330, A4 2.0t Quattro and the C300. So a TLX 2.0t with 272hp would do well here and of course it’ll come better equipped for less money. Then we have the 3.0t Type-S which would go against the BMW M340i, Audi S4 Quattro and the Mercedes C43 AMG, again coming in better equipped for less money.
#274
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Although the 3rd gen type S didn't have sh-awd available back then and as another forum member pointed out a while back 300hp is about max you can reasonably do in a fwd configuration.
Last edited by jhb31; 02-24-2019 at 05:33 PM.
#275
It’s a variable system so while cruising, it’ll send more power to the front wheels for better economy. During cornering, it can send up to 70% to the rear axle.
#276
400hp is some forum members goals. The last type S was a modest bump of around 25hp or so more than the regular model. Around 350 is my guess for the over/under but I don't think there has been anything official out there but speculation. If I was betting I would probably take the under. Regardless the transmission has to shift normally or it won't matter what it has hp wise. The current TLX has more hp than the 3rd gen type S and feels sluggish in comparison unless you ride in S+ mode all the time and that has its own downside on how it behaves.
Although the 3rd gen type S didn't have sh-awd available back then and as another forum member pointed out a while back 300hp is about max you can reasonably do in a fwd configuration.
Although the 3rd gen type S didn't have sh-awd available back then and as another forum member pointed out a while back 300hp is about max you can reasonably do in a fwd configuration.
#277
I believe that the SH-AWD system on the TLX is quite more simplified (and quite cheaper) that the one on the 4G, beyond electromagnetic vs hydraulic, The step-up gearing, for example, it's gone if I recall correctly. Here there is a detailed technical article talking about this.
"Acura SH-AWD: A Comprehensive Analysis"
Acura SH-AWD: A Comprehensive Analysis | YouWheel - Your Car Expert
My understanding is that the current TLX SH_AWD is similar to an Haldex system with 2 clutch packs (one per wheel). The clutch packs now are now responsible for 100% of the workload transferring torque with potential overheating and wear issues down the road.
"Acura SH-AWD: A Comprehensive Analysis"
Acura SH-AWD: A Comprehensive Analysis | YouWheel - Your Car Expert
My understanding is that the current TLX SH_AWD is similar to an Haldex system with 2 clutch packs (one per wheel). The clutch packs now are now responsible for 100% of the workload transferring torque with potential overheating and wear issues down the road.
”Why SH-AWD Can Constantly Handle Large Torque?
From our previous article describing how the Twinster AWD system work in the Focus RS, we know the GKN Twinster clutch pack is fully responsible to transfer power to the rear wheels. This means in the Focus RS, if each rear wheel gets 50hp, then this 50hp is transmitted wholly through sliding friction within the clutch. Hence, there will be serious wear and overheating issue if the clutch is engaged for a long time.
On the other hand, if you have driven the Acura TL/MDX, you will see the rear wheels frequently get lots of power; in constant speed cruising, the rear wheels still get at least 10% of torque split. For the Acura RL, the rear wheels can even get 30% of the engine output constantly. Why the SH-AWD does not need to worry about the wear and overheating?
To answer this question, we need to remember: the clutch pack in the SH-AWD is NOT mainly responsible for transmitting power, instead it is used to “modulate” the torque transfer relationship between the Ring Gear (input) and Planet Gear Carrier (output), there is much less stress applied on the clutch plates.”
#278
On the other hand, if you have driven the Acura TL/MDX, you will see the rear wheels frequently get lots of power; in constant speed cruising, the rear wheels still get at least 10% of torque split. For the Acura RL, the rear wheels can even get 30% of the engine output constantly. Why the SH-AWD does not need to worry about the wear and overheating?
To answer this question, we need to remember: the clutch pack in the SH-AWD is NOT mainly responsible for transmitting power, instead it is used to “modulate” the torque transfer relationship between the Ring Gear (input) and Planet Gear Carrier (output), there is much less stress applied on the clutch plates.”
That page also post a picture of the new SH-AWD used in the TLX.....no planetary gear set to be seen as stated in the article....if that is the case they are correct.
Cutaway of the SH-AWD used in the 4G TL where you can see the planetary gear set next to the clutch pack.
The fact they shifted to an hydraulic system seems to me a confirmation that the clutch pack workload is much higher than before
Last edited by 4G-Lover; 02-26-2019 at 11:36 AM.
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BEAR-AvHistory (02-26-2019)
#279
Well I owned a 4G SH-AWD so I experienced that...but what that article claim is that the SH-AWD used in the TLX does not have the step-up gear anymore so the entire workload is performed by the clutch packs (basically a glorified VTM-4)...unless that article is wrong...
That page also post a picture of the new SH-AWD used in the TLX.....no planetary gear set to be seen as stated in the article....if that is the case they are correct.
Cutaway of the SH-AWD used in the 4G TL where you can see the planetary gear set next to the clutch pack.
The fact they shifted to an hydraulic system seems to me a confirmation that the clutch pack workload is much higher than before
That page also post a picture of the new SH-AWD used in the TLX.....no planetary gear set to be seen as stated in the article....if that is the case they are correct.
Cutaway of the SH-AWD used in the 4G TL where you can see the planetary gear set next to the clutch pack.
The fact they shifted to an hydraulic system seems to me a confirmation that the clutch pack workload is much higher than before
ill assume the article was talking about the previous setup and not the setup found in the TLX/MDX as they used a pic of the 4G in the headline. I never paid attention to the date of the article. Yeah, the new system is quite different but its seems to be more proactive and reactive while saving across the board. I need to dig up more info about the revamped system found in the 2019 RDX as its the 4th generation of the system and it seems to be much improved over the 3rd generation system.
#280
ill assume the article was talking about the previous setup and not the setup found in the TLX/MDX as they used a pic of the 4G in the headline. I never paid attention to the date of the article. Yeah, the new system is quite different but its seems to be more proactive and reactive while saving across the board. I need to dig up more info about the revamped system found in the 2019 RDX as its the 4th generation of the system and it seems to be much improved over the 3rd generation system.
In my opinion the lack of the step up planetary gearing is a significant downgrade.
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BEAR-AvHistory (02-26-2019)