e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

I am so sorry for the loss and cannot believe Lexus is ignoring what is obviously a serious flaw in their cars.

Suddenly the gen 2/3 transmission issue seems trivial.

I have forwarded the links in this thread to several people I know with these cars.

LuvMyTSX

^^ I had the same reaction (DarkSith). This is not good.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Try doing it in a 1991 Chevy K1500 Extended cab with over 165k miles. Brakes were only 2 weeks old also... so basically new. They were trying... smelling and smoking, and as mentioned, they did slow the car down but the brakes were losing that battle.

So while your statement may be true a majority of the time and most likely on newer vehicles, it is not an absolute as I'm telling you from first-hand experience the engine was winning the battle with the brakes that day. The only way to reduce speed significantly and stop was to shift to neutral...

ankur914

:RIP: to the family

we own a '98 camry v6 that had a recall notice from toyota about a defective cruise control cable that would potentially cause a stuck "speed" according to the recall notice. Doubt its the same thing, but damn, they do have their share of scary ass problems.

Recall Date: 2001-01-16
Components: VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
Cars Affected: 53,061

Summary:
VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH CRUISE CONTROL AND V6 ENGINES, AND BUILT AT ONE OF TWO LINES AT THE KENTUCKY PLANT. THE ACCELERATOR CABLE HOUSING COULD BE DEFORMED AT THE CRUISE CONTROL ACTUATOR-TO-THROTTLE BODY CONNECTION. THE ACCELERATOR INNER-CABLE COULD WEAR AWAY AND EVENTUALLY BREAK.

Consequences:
THIS COULD ALLOW THE THROTTLE TO RETURN TO IDLE OR REMAIN IN ITS MOST RECENT POSITION REGARDLESS OF ACCELERATOR PEDAL OPERATION, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.

Remedy:
DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE ACCELERATOR CABLE. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN FEBRUARY 23, 2001. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY

from

http://www.usedcarsplus.com/toyota-r...mry/index.html

OLD_HATCH

wow


Sorry to hear and my prayers go out to the family.


One question for anyone who knows though. does this perticualr car use a throtle by wire? (not mechanical cable)


If so i could see how maybe the ecu or some module wouldnt let the vehicle shift into neutral under load to maybe keep from grenading the tranny??

TheMirror

Yes it does have throttle by wire, and if there is some kind of setting in the ECU to prevent that....Toyota is going to pay big time some day for it.

PortlandRL

Lexus needs to really watch where they step. Does anybody remember the Audi 'unintended acceleration' problem of the mid-80s? That turned out to be a bunch of media over-hype and it nearly destroyed Audi's business in this country.

When it gets out that Toyota Camry's and Lexus ES350s are killing people because they won't stop and that Toyota refuses to do ANYTHING about it, their reputation will be forever shot to shit.

PortlandRL

And oh yeah....remember the Isuzu Trooper (and the Acura SLX) fiasco with Consumer Reports? They rated it as 'Unacceptable' because CR fudged the rollover test and it DESTROYED Isuzu in this country.

Majofo

I can't believe Toyota is blaming the floormats.. that's total bs... I watched GMA's recent video about the recall and I didn't realize that the brother-in-law actually called 911 before the fatal crash. It's haunting to listen to, and unbelievable that they had the time to have a conversation with 911 but couldn't stop the car.. maybe he had tunnel vision but to blame the floormats is complete bs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ippnztg3A_o

Moog-Type-S

Such a sad story.

I can't believe that people don't know how to turn the ignition key or button to kill the engine or shift into neutral.

It blows my mind that an officer didn't even know how to do this.
I can't imagine that he tried and yet the car wouldn't go into neutral or killing the ignition did not work.

So sad.

carlos9827

iTrader: (2)

9/17/09: Another fatal accident in San Diego involving a Lexus! Driver in the Lexus was killed. This is scary..

<a href='http://img268.imageshack.us/i/deadlyaccident.jpg/'><img src='http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6360/deadlyaccident.jpg' border='0' alt='Image Hosted by ImageShack.us'/></a><br/>

Full story and video

http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=11148974

Majofo

The newer ES350's have Push-to-Start.. I've never owned a vehicle using P2S ignitions.. is there a cut-off? throw the key out of the window? Completely eff'ed up and very sad..

Majofo

Completely unrelated other than the make of the car..

Moog-Type-S

Press and hold for a few seconds to kill the ignition.

The sad part is people never read their car manual, and don't know how automobiles function....they just turn the key, press the pedals, turn the wheel....they know nothing more than that. When emergencies arise, they don't know how to respond.

PortlandRL

The car was a loaner car from the dealership. Do you expect them to go over every feature of the car with people each time they loan it out?

And the guy who made the 911 call was the passenger.

Whiskers

Good to know how to do it...

carlos9827

iTrader: (2)

Did you really just take the time to post a reply to let us know my post was completely unrelated to this thread?

Another fatal accident in San Diego
Another fatal accident in San Diego
Another fatal accident in San Diego
Another fatal accident in San Diego
Another fatal accident in San Diego

Who cares if it unrelated....The accident happened in San Diego, there was another fatality involved unfortunately, and yes it did involve a LEXUS. Get a life!

Majofo

and your point is? I posted a reply so nobody would waste their time watching an unrelated fatal accident. Your post made it seem like they were related other than having remote similarities. The lexus in that story was not at fault, their accelerator wasn't stuck, their brakes didn't fail, the driver wasn't a veteran CHP officer going 120 mph whose vehicle burst into flames, tragic yes but fails in comparison to the tragedy in Santee.. btw.. the new story says Oceanside.. this isn't regions, it's car talk. /discussion

mcflyguy24

So this happened to me just four days ago in my ACURA. My fault for letting the throttle body get clogged with carbon build up. Get this I fricken seafoamed like 15k miles ago too. Of course I put it in neutral (thanks to reading this thread lol) and coasted to the side of the road. Got out of car yanked the throttle cable a few times and it loosened up. Had the dealer look at it and they checked cruise control cables (I was using cruise control when it happened) and throttle cable, took intake manifold, throttle body, and egr valve off and cleaned them.

Trust me it was scary shit. However the brakes worked fine to overpower the engine, but throttle was only stuck around 3k rpm not wide open.

Moog-Type-S

No shocker here....afterall were talking about no-torque Honda engines.

:wink:

carlos9827

iTrader: (2)

I'm not going to tell you what you really are since I'm sure we all already know it. If I post something which reads -quote- "9/17/09: Another fatal accident in San Diego involving a Lexus! Driver in the Lexus was killed. This is scary.." Why would anyone think those two stories are related? Keyword here is "Another". To me both accidents seemed very tragic, and most of us reading this thread were most likely saddened and intrigued. of course you probably were not.

Majofo

I didn't insult you.. So stop being overly sensitive and discontinue polluting this thread. You want to mix words with me then PM me.

DarkSithCL

iTrader: (1)

so glad you were alright.... isnt funni how this AZ thread put u in the proper mindset to save yourself a terrible accident or a bad scare! Thats a blessing... hope alota peeps are getting this info!!!

DarkSithCL

iTrader: (1)

... if knowing is half the battle, then I am losing the battle !!!

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Looks like they're doing a recall b/c of this accident...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Toyota...38225.html?x=0

neuronbob

Wow. Good move. I wonder how many cars this can happen in, though.

mrmako

First off, That had to be one harrowing way to go for those in the car.

More to the floor mat point, my current car and my Honda Saber have a hole at the very end of the mat, and there is a hook on the floor very close to the seat. Isn't this standard in the US? Forgive the ignorance, but I have not lived there in a while.

ThermonMermon

watching the coverage on Squawk Box as we speak. horrible.

LuvMyTSX

I really don't think floor mats are to blame for this. I read some other stories about accelerators getting stuck, and it just does not point to floor mats.

The stories I read were on here: http://autocoverup.com/#STS=g087rfel.tp9

neuronbob

I've had that in each of my Acuras and even in my new Caddy. I don't know whether it's a requirement, doubt it.

How does a floormat cause an accelerator to stick? I simply don't get it. Could it be just that the accelerator stuck by itself? And would I remember to just put the car in neutral and coast to the side of the road in that situation? Sure hope so. Doing that would have led to a different outcome here.
Edit: LuvmyTSX beat me to this point by two minutes.

LuvMyTSX

I don't know if the holes in the mats are standard, but all the cars I have had, and my family have had, in the past 10 years or so have had them.

Majofo

totally agree.. nobody is listening though and it's common sense.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIeoewbPdB4&

Majofo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3lq3...eature=related

Majofo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6d2aOcziDA

Watch this.. put into neutral & reverse & it still accelerated!!

LuvMyTSX

^ I just watched that last video, and at the end is says the floor mats are to blame. What I don't get, is even if the floor mat scoots up where it shouldn't be, why doesn't the car slow down when the brakes are applied? Why doesn't anything happen when she puts the car in neutral or park? And why did the cruise control light come on when she didn't press it? I'm not buying this floor mat BS.

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

Can't see it at work but I've never seen a car that doesn't disengage the transmission when it's put into neutral.

Neutral = no power to the wheels
no power to the wheels = car will eventually come to a stop.

I call

Majofo

What's really appalling is this happened over 2 years ago.. and now a beautiful wonderful family is sacrificed before they do anything, and instead of admitting there is a real issue they make a retarded ploy to recall the floor mats..

Easy math tells us why..

Recall 3.8M vehicle floormats to either replace floormat / remove lower floormat / cut floormat which costs them very little to do..
Recall 3.8M vehicles to resolve PCM / DBW cruise control issue, which could cost $100-200 + labor..
Toyota - real smart your fucking assholes! I hope you corporate masterminds burn in hell like you made the Saylor / Lastrella family burn to death in your vehicle.

PortlandRL

The floor mat recall is something Toyota is doing just to make it look like they give a flying fuck (which they don't). And talk about pouring salt on the wounds of those who have needlessly suffered at the hands of their cars. One of the stories I read on the cover-up website stated the car took off on its own when she toggled the cruise control to 'cancel'. A car will still accelerate via the pedal even with the cruise set. So even if the mat had bunched up against the pedal, it wouldn't have waited until the cruise control was canceled to take off like a bat out of hell. So there goes the floor mat theory.

My mom drives a 2002 Lexus RX300 that has a mechanical throttle and an actual key (thank God) and I've told her to completely refuse it if they try to give her an ES350 loaner car. And I won't hesitate to tell them why we won't drive one. How many people will have to die before Lexus admits there is a serious problem with their electronic throttles? Perhaps they should give Audi a call and talk to them about how long it took them to recover from their unintended acceleration issue in the 1980s, despite the fact it was deemed driver error in those cases.

Majofo

I believe it.. you should watch the story when you get home. They replaced her transmission after that incident and then made that bs story about the floormat. She's lucky.. GM and a few other car mfg's had reported similar incidents over the past 15-20 years but they never made some stupid excuse that the floormat is to blame.. One dealer found corroded pins in the PCM could have been a culprit to one incident.. With the way everything is logically controlled, it's not far fetched.. but it is scary. Consider that the code that goes into all the control module systems in a modern vehicle is 10-100x more lines of code than goes into a Boeing commercial airplane or a fighter jet..

Majofo

Check this out.. Here is a thread on edmunds *please don't delete link

it's a discussion about Jaguar having a similar problem, moreso at low speeds / startup. A Jag tech even writes a customer came in complaining.. he took the car out and tapped the throttle and it uncontrollably accelerated wrecking the Jag into an Audi.. he called corporate and they said it was a known issue.. no reprimand. My next mod will be a throttle cable override if I keep reading about these issues.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0ff6cc