1SICKLEX

Shit your in Atlanta, Howdy!

shawn744

DOG, WORD! i would NOT mind an M45 loaded with chromies......but not in place of my TL...........................

Mike_TX

Wow, I'm new to this forum, but it didn't take long to figure out who's who. When BJ started bashing the real luxury cars, it became painfully obvious where he fits. Anyone who says BMW seats are "uncomfortable" obviously doesn't know his ergonomics from his a$$.

Every automobile enthusists' mag in existence rates BMW seats as "world class" and the "standard of comfort". My 540's seat adjusts so many ways it's almost impossible not to find a comfortable setting. Some people (who don't really know what they're talking about) sometimes comment that German car seats are kinda firm, but spend a day in one and you'll come to understand why they're made the way they are.

Oh, well ... it takes all kinds, and maybe moreso on a forum.

Mike

boltjames

Great, now we can add Audi drivers to the list of Infinity drivers and Lexus drivers who apparently have difficulty in accepting the fact that the TL forum is filled with buyers who test drove their vehicles and dismissed them for various reasons. These are my opinions as a car buyer who recently drove lots of cars before choosing the TL:

Audi's are Volkswagon's and are plagued with quality and mechanical issues. The ride is harsh, the cabins are noisy, and the audio systems are vague. The exterior styling is badly in need of a major facelift too. Audi is nothing more than a poor man's BMW or a rich man's VW. Lacks identity.

Lexus' are Toyota's and are solid cars but their styling is very feminine and they look too similar to their less expensive cousins. Lexus gets a gold star for being the best perceived of the near-luxury brands with slightly more panache than Acura, but Acura is getting very aggressive and clearly wants their rightful throne back. We'll see what happens. Either way, the cars are too over the top on the 'luxury' old man end and not exciting enough on the 'sport' youthful BMW end.

Infinity's are Nissan's and are in no man's land like no other auto company. They're confused. The Nissan Maxima looks like a more expensive car than the Infinity G35, the G35 Sedan is Frankencar from a Z and a G35 Coupe, and the G35's interior is straight out of a Kia design lab. The lowest perception of luxury among the major off-luxury brands. Swear to God, I didn't even know that Infinity was still in existence until I started shopping for a sporty luxury sedan and read about the G35 as a TL/A4 competitor.

Acura's are Honda's and are solid and reliable. Acura, while never totally boring, fell into a dull period with the old TL and RL and at present feature the most fresh and original styling of the group. They take chances with technology like no other brand, and to me, the FWD is a benefit, not a detriment. Most importantly, the TL has the perfect mix of just enough sport mixed in with just enough luxury to strike that balance that Lexus misses, the dependability that blows Audi away, and the perception of a luxury brand that blows Infinity away.

What I just typed was not meant to incite a riot nor was it meant to hurt feelings. Those were my impressions when I decided to purchase the TL. I'd bet that 90% of the other TL drivers came to similar conclusions. That's why they bought the TL. That's why they're in the TL forum. That's why your opinions and hurt feelings are for you to deal with, not us.

BJ

boltjames

Here's what you need to understand. It's a very simple concept:

There isn't a Big 3. There's a Big 2.

There's BMW and Mercedes Benz and that's it for the luxury car segment.

Lexus, while atop the heap of the other near-luxury brands, is mixed right in there with Acura, Infinity, Audi, Cadillac, and Jaguar. Really good on the value scale, very nice cars, but if you're trying to impress the Armani and Rolex crowd, they're not going to cut the mustard.

Your belief that Lexus is a quality brand and a brand that has more panache and perceived luxury than Acura is accepted. That's fact.

Your belief that Lexus is right up there with BMW and Mercedes Benz is unacceptable. It's a joke. It's untrue. Just because they have 1 car that's as expensive as a 7 Series or an S Class doesn't carry the brand to new heights. The Phaeton isn't helping out VW either, so don't feel bad about it.

Either way, why is a Moderator from the esteemed, luxurious ClubLexus Forum doing in the TL forum and why do you care what we think about your car?

BJ

Kobe

So what is Rolls Royce/Bently, Maybach. Range Rover, I think the old perception was just Benz, Jag, BMW but that has changed and the Lexus, Infiniti Lineup actually does get a lot more recognition as luxury nameplates then you think. There is room for more then 2 Luxury nameplates and there are numerous Luxury vehicels, You are only comaring one car from Infinti the G35, which is their entry level vehicle, what about the Q and the M45 if you only compared the 3 series BMW would not be considered a Luxury nameplate. Do you consider a Mercedes 320 a luxury vehicle

jjsC5

Let me share a little something with you - and mind you, these are just two examples - not rare examples either.

When the Lexus line came out 15 years ago, I knew two very high level VP's for Compaq Computer. These guys had many, many, many millions of dollars. And many more!!!

One of them traded both a MB 500S, and a BMW 750il for two Lexus LS400's. The other guy traded a 750il and his wifes Cadillac Eldorado on a Lexus LS400 and SC400. Trust me, these guys' could buy any car they wanted. They both owned $150,000 cigarette boats, and one also had a Ferrari 512 Boxer, the other had a Porsche TT.

Also, in the past several years, there have been several comparison tests in magazines comparing the LS 430 to equivelent price range BMW's and MB's, and the Lexus has won every time.

birdboy

Compared Maxima , TL and G45. Maybe Ive been conditoned by Nissan's marketing -but the Maxima no longer has a distinct personality. Previous owner of a 3 series.

AcuraVic

O.K. the 'Jesus Chariot' thing is too funny

Also, I have always loved the GS400. If Acura hadn't made a new TL, I'd be driving a 430 today.

and ' whats up playa' back at ya!! (response to the 'Howdy')

RTDyer

That is your response!!?
I rest my case. Have a nice life and Enjoy your Festiva.

EZZ

Huh? What response were you expecting. I never said that I care about status or indicate what type of car I have If you must know, I've had several Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans. I currently have a G35 Coupe and am in the market for a 4-door sedan for my significant other. For the price I paid for the coupe, I could have gotten a TL/Nav but as I said earlier, RWD was what I wanted.

Do I believe that BMW and Mercedes have better brand equity among the general public...of course. If you don't, you're a complete idiot. Brand Equity is about public perception and so is luxury. I don't care if Kia put in the same interior as the Benz, still wouldn't be considered a "Luxury" car.

apwalsh

Ok, alot of people are starting not to make any sense in this thread.

1. Ok, perhaps these rich gentlemen felt that Lexus offered a better value. Just because you can buy the most expensive car, doesn't mean that they feel they have to waste their money. I know plenty of people who drive Lexus, Acura and Infinitis but have multi-million dollar homes. They can easily afford any car they want.

2. You obviously do not know opinion from your ass, my friend. I might not find a seat comfortable. So what? I'm retarded because I happen not to like to comfort? I Don't think so. We know you're new, because on your ninth post you are insulting someone that doesn't like a seat that you do. STFU Newb.

3. 1SICKLEX, while normally I think your posts are pretty good, this one seems as if you are saying because something costs more, we know that it's going to be better. We all know that this is not true. Cost has nothing to do with quality. Cost is only affected by perceived quality. There are some exceptions, but the we will be talking about cars that are made by hand.

I'm not saying which car is better than this one, but some of you are not making any sense with some of this shit. There is plenty more that I did not quote, so keep in mind I'm not trying to single out the three that I quoted. I just got annoyed and decided that was enough. I am also not sticking up for BJ, as I rarely agree with his posts and never agree with the delivery of his opinions and ideas.

I could have purchased one of these luxury brand models if I chose, but I have never been able to justify the amount of money for one of them. The same way I cannot buy a pair of 400 shoes when a 100 pair works just as well. I do need to impress anybody with my car, my dress, my watch or my bankroll. If they are looking to judge me on those sort of things then I do not want to know them. They are beneath me on the evolutionary chain.

Enjoy the car you have, respect others' opinions, and have some damn fun while you're at it.

jjsC5

You missed my point. BJ stated that Lexus is not percieved to be in the same class as MB's and BMW's, and strongly implied that MB and BMW owners would not cross shop a Lexus. I simply pointed out two specific examples of owners of those marks who obviously did feel the Lexus was in the same league. They could easily have afforded another MB or BMW.

boltjames

I see your point, but I'll offer up that for every 1 BMW or Mercedes customer that is inclined to switch to Lexus, there are 1,000 BMW or Mercedes customers that in a million years would never step down a level in class unless they lost their jobs and their golden parachutes weren't as robust as they thought they were.

I'll use myself as an example. If I really wanted to, I could afford a BMW 5 decently equipped at $50,000. Extra few hundred a month won't kill me. In the end, I decided that status just wasn't worth $16,000 to me so I stepped down in class to an Acura. I could just as easily have stepped down to a Lexus or Audi.

Anyone that buys a BMW or Mercedes isn't really doing it for huge leaps in quality or functionality over the offerings from Acura, Lexus, or Audi. In the end, they're doing it for the badge and the 'respect' they perceive that comes with it. It's no different than a Ralph Lauren Polo shirt at $50 vs. the same one from the Gap without the pony at $15.

There's nothing specifically different about Lexus cars than Acura cars except for their very expensive high end sedan. Even that car is about value; like the TL being a poor man's 5 series, the LS430 is a poor man's 7 series. Same strategy of 'value', just at a higher pricepoint.

BJ

Mike_TX

I guess this is a good example of the reason many forum mods discourage "comparison posts". So many people just get blindly defensive about their choice of vehicle and it gets out of hand.

I think it's a shame, since we could possibly learn from other people's experience. But experience that is so colored with prejudice and brand loyalty and refusal to keep an open mind ... and anger ... is no help to anyone.

Sorry if I said anything to add fuel to the fire. And to those who have lost their perspective, I say ... Step back and take a breath. It's a car. It's just a car.

Mike

EZZ

That is a very precise explanation of the power of branding. If status and perceived worth were not factors in the consumer mindset, "brand equity" would really not exist. With that said, each of the "2nd" tier luxury marquees offer a different experience. Even if you don't think so BJ, Lexus DOES make higher quality cars than Acura. They easily are the most reliable, have the best initial quality, made of the best materials, and is perceived as the most luxurious of the Japanese auto makers. Don't believe me? Check any reputable car publication that focuses on quality and reliability and the Lexus runs away. Infiniti offers luxury combined with sport. They focus on horsepower...GOBS of horsepower. The G35 is the lowest horsepower car in their entire lineup! (The I35 will be discontinued soon). They also have great reliability, quality, and are perceived as a decent luxury marquee. Acura is "the thinking man's luxury car." However, the RSX (and past integras) have diluted the brand into something of a boy racer image. Many think of Acuras as "ricer" cars...very sad to say. Acuras are the best bang-for-the-buck luxury cars and someday I hope to get a TL because I think they are the best sedan for under $40k but I find it questionable whether Acura really wants to be in the same class as MB or BMW...why should they when more money is available in the "2nd" tier luxury group.

boltjames

I am on the record as stating that Lexus has a better perception of luxury than Acura. Acura has had some unattractive designs in the old TL and RL at the same time that Lexus stepped it up and they pay the price to this day for those conservative decisions. Lexus also made a point of driving their prices up $5 to $10k more than similarly sized Acura's, so the appeal is to a more expensive customer.

As for quality, nope. They're about the same. Depending on which publications you read, Honda and Toyota are neck and neck on quality and thus Lexus and Acura follow suit.

Where we may differ is that in no way, shape, or form is Lexus perceived to be on the same luxury level as BMW and Mercedes. No way. Again, Lexus may appeal to a more affluent car buyer than Acura does, but to the customer that can afford a BMW or Mercedes, the Lexus is merely a more affordable option.

So, Lexus is perceived as a better luxury brand than Acura, but is not perceived as an equal or better luxury brand than BMW and Mercedes. Lexus leads the entry-luxury brands (Audi, Acura, Infinity, Saab, Volvo, Cadillac, Jaguar) but is not a member of the luxury brand fraternity (BMW, Mercedes). Agree?

BJ

EZZ

I agree with what you say as a whole. Lexus has not quite reached the mighty BMW, Mercedes fraternity and is the leader of the entry level lux.

I think we differ on the quality aspect. Lexus = the BEST car factory in all of Japan. That is not something I made up. They had an article awhile back about the factory where most of the Lexus cars are made and that factory had the lowest amount of reported quality issues out of any factory in the world (has anyone else read the article? ). Compare that with the Ohio plant (where all of the civics, Accords, etc...) and this is where the quality differences arise. Keep in mind that I'm not saying Acura has bad quality...it probably is top 5 among all makes, but IMO, not Lexus quality. Having said that, if you disagree with me, then let us agree to disagree

1SICKLEX

Not sure how much you are into the car scene here but next time somethings going down, I'll shoot you a PM.

NightRider

While some people consider Acura a "value minded" person's car in entry level luxury, the same can be said of Lexus in "full luxury". Asian cars as a whole are more value minded in general. Why do you think you can get a brand new LS430 flagship Lexus for at least $10K less than a similarly equipped BMW and MB? Half of the reason Lexus does not touch MB and BMW's "luxury" is because of the amazing amount of money it takes not only with the initial purchase, but with the upkeep of these cars. You truely have to be ballin' (which I am not). Speaking from experience, I used to have a 97 C Class MB, this is why I bought an Acura. Why do you think these two companies are offering free maintenance? For how many issues they have both in and (even worse) out of warranty, the better give something free!

1SICKLEX

My bad, I was being an idiot. In all Honesty, the competition is so even that it really depends on personal preference. It's hard to really say some cars are "BETTER" than others. I prefer Lexus, I bought a GS 400, I think the 540, A6 4.2 and E430 are all pretty much even.
I bought an IS, the TL, G35, 3 are all pretty even.

It really depends on looks, feel, size etc and what your PRIORITES are.

Clearly, Jesus according to BoltJames, loves his TL.

1SICKLEX

My father cross shops the 3 and changed from BMW to Lexus. He gave up on wanting a S 500 and will probably get a LS 430 eventually.
I KNOW people cross shop Acura in the 30-40k range with the TL and MDX. That is pretty much all.
BoltJames fails to realize, Acura doesn't even begin to offer the variation of products of the BIG 3. You can't EVEN cross-shop most of the cars.

And he is disputing FACTs. Of course we are entitled to our opinions, his being, the TL is what will be used to discover life on Mars.

1SICKLEX

Your hatred for Lexus blinds you to the facts. If not for LEXUS, luxury cars would pretty much still offer:
Shitty interiors
Shitty service
Shitty quality
Shitty design (remember unpainted black bumpers on 50k cars!)

Lexus is used in some college studies as what TO DO when you introduce a brand. The terms "Lexus-Like" are now industry terms. Lexus has been #1 in
QUality
Customer Satisfaction
Cars sold
For the longest. Lexus has always faired well in every magazine comparison ever tested.
Lexus has had multiple
Ten Best winners
Car of the year winners
Automobile Editor Picks

If not for LEXUS, stock factory Sound Systems would still suck. Nakamichi introduced factory hi-fi sound to luxury cars. Mark Levinson ELEVATED this. So your ELS, is a product of Lexus.

This is not opinion, this is FACT. I am going to quickly post some more FACTS for you. To deny it makes you even more FOOLISH in peoples eyes.

1SICKLEX

May 2004
Three's a charm, as IntelliChoice magazine chooses the LS and ES as Best Overall Values in their categories, and the RX as the Best SUV Over $30,000.



May 2003
For the seventh consecutive year, the J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study (IQS)SM names the LS the Highest Ranked Premium Luxury Car. The same study also designates the GS as the Highest Ranked Mid Luxury Car, while the ES earns the title of Highest Ranked Entry Luxury Car.



March 2003
The entirely new Lexus RX 330 has arrived, offering a stunning combination of style, technology and luxury.



November 2002
A new kind of adventure begins with the launch of the ruggedly luxurious 2003 Lexus GX 470.



August 2002
The Lexus LS 430 ranks as the Best Premium Luxury Car in the J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study (IQS)SM for the sixth year in a row.



November 2001
Lexus is awarded the #1 Nameplate in Long-Term Dependability in the J.D. Power and Associates Vehicle Dependability Index (VDI)SM for the seventh year in a row.



October 2001
Lexus finishes first in all three luxury car categories in the J.D. Power and Associates 2001 Automotive, Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) Study.SM The Lexus LS 430 is ranked Most Appealing Premium Luxury Car, the GS 430 and GS 300 are ranked Most Appealing Mid Luxury Car, and the ES 300 is ranked Most Appealing Entry Luxury Car.



October 2001
Lexus redefines luxury with the launch of the 2002 ES 300.



August 2001
Launch of the power-potent 2002 IS 300 5-Speed and SportCross.



March 2001
A historical union of love and power: The 2002 Lexus SC 430 is launched.



November 2000
Lexus is the #1 Nameplate in the J.D. Power and Associates Vehicle Dependability Index (VDI)SM for the sixth straight year.



October 2000
The all-new LS 430 flagship sedan launches.



June 2000
Lexus launches a car to rock the performance sedan world: the IS 300.



December 1999
For the fourth consecutive year, Lexus posts best-ever annual sales.



November 1999
Lexus sells its millionth vehicle in the U.S.



September 1999
Lexus celebrates the 10th anniversary of its first vehicle going on sale in the U.S.



July 1999
Lexus ranks as the #1 Nameplate in the J.D. Power and Associates Customer Satisfaction IndexSM for the eighth time in nine years.



March 1999
Lexus is the #1 Nameplate in the J.D. Power and Associates Vehicle Dependability IndexSM for the fifth straight year.



January 1999
The GS 400/300 is honored as one of Car and Driver's 10Best.



October 1998
The RX 300 becomes the first SUV to be named Sport/Utility of the Year by Motor Trend magazine, which creates the new category in recognition of the immense popularity of SUVs.



April 1998
Lexus once again is named the #1 Nameplate in long-term dependability after five years of ownership by the J.D. Power and Associates Vehicle Dependability Index.SM Lexus has earned this honor every year it's been eligible.



January 1998
Lexus unveils a new breed of SUV, the RX 300, at the North American International Auto Show. Along with the more powerful LX 470, this creates the ultimate luxury SUV line.



December 1997
The GS line is named Motor Trend's Import Car of the Year.



October 1997
Dramatically more powerful GS line introduced, with the V8-powered GS 400 joining the GS 300. LS 400 gets a more powerful V8 and new appearance.



July 1997
For the sixth time, Lexus ranks as the #1 Nameplate in the J.D. Power and Associates Customer Satisfaction Study.SM



March 1997
For the third consecutive year, Lexus ranks as the #1 Nameplate in the J.D. Power and Associates Vehicle Dependability Study,SM registering the fewest problems after five years of ownership.



February 1997
SC 300 named an Automobile Magazine All-Star for the fifth time.

1SICKLEX

September 1996
A more luxurious, more powerful, second-generation ES 300 is introduced. LS 400 is ranked Most Appealing Premium Luxury Car in the J.D. Power and Associates APEAL study.SM



July 1996
The LS 400 is named one of the Twenty-Four Most Important Automobiles of the Century by Automobile Magazine.



June 1996
Lexus is ranked a Best Overall Nameplate in the J.D. Power and Associates Sales Satisfaction Index.SM



May 1996
The ES 300 and SC 400/300 rank as the Best Entry Luxury Car and Best Premium Luxury Car, respectively, in the J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study.SM



March 1996
In its second year of eligibility, Lexus is again ranked first by J.D. Power and Associates as the Best Overall Carline in Vehicle DependabilitySM after five years of ownership.



January 1996
Lexus introduces the LX 450 luxury sport-utility vehicle. Just two months later, it climbs to the top of the luxury SUV segment, surpassing Range Rover in units sold.



July 1995
For an unprecedented fifth consecutive year, Lexus ranks as the #1 Carline in the J.D. Power and Associates Customer Satisfaction Study.SM



March 1995
In its first year of eligibility, Lexus is ranked by J.D. Power and Associates as the Best Overall Carline in Vehicle DependabilitySM after five years of ownership.



January 1995
The SC 300 is named a Car and Driver 10Best. The LS 400 receives Popular Mechanics' Design and Engineering Award. And Lexus was the best-selling luxury import in 1994.



December 1994
The new LS 400 is designated Best of What's New by Popular Science.



November 1994
The redesigned second-generation LS 400 goes on sale.



July 1994
Lexus is ranked as the #1 Carline in the J.D. Power and Associates Customer Satisfaction StudySM for the fourth straight year and as the Best Overall Carline in Sales Satisfaction for the third time in four years.



May 1994
Lexus sweeps the J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study,SM with the Best Overall Carline ranking.



February 1994
Lexus is ranked as the Best Overall Carline in the J.D. Power and Associates Vehicle Performance Study,SM reflecting satisfaction after three years of ownership.



July 1993
For the third year in a row, Lexus is ranked as the #1 Carline in the J.D. Power and Associates Customer Satisfaction Study.SM



June 1993
The LS 400 is named the Best Import Car for 1993 by The Robb Report.



January 1993
Lexus introduces its first luxury performance sedan, the GS 300. The SC 300 is named to the Car and Driver 10Best list and to Automobile Magazine's All-Star list.



September 1992
A freshened LS 400 appears with more than 50 changes, many as a direct response to dealer and customer requests.



July 1992
Lexus again tops the J.D. Power and Associates Customer Satisfaction StudySM as the #1 Carline, and the Sales Satisfaction StudySM as the Best Overall Carline.



March 1992
Motor Trend and the Motoring Press Association name the SC 400 Import Car of the Year.



January 1992
The SC 400 and ES 300 are named Automobile Magazine All-Stars, and SC 400 a Car and Driver 10Best. Lexus outsells BMW and Mercedes-Benz to become the number-one luxury import.



September 1991
The ES 300 replaces the ES 250.



August 1991
The SC 300 is introduced.

Lexus sweeps the J.D. Power and Associates studies, topping the Customer Satisfaction StudySM as the #1 Carline, the Initial Quality StudySM as the Best Overall Carline, and the Sales Satisfaction StudySM as the Best Overall Carline.



May 1991
Lexus unveils the first new addition to its product line, the SC 400.



July 1990
Lexus first appears in a J.D. Power and Associates study, ranked as the #1 Carline in the Initial Quality Study.SM



February 1990
The Motoring Press Association names the LS 400 Best Imported Car of the Year.



January 1990
The LS 400 is named a Car and Driver 10Best.



September 1989
The LS 400 and ES 250 go on sale.



January 1989
The LS 400 and ES 250 are unveiled to the world at Detroit and Los Angeles auto shows.



May 1987
Management approves the final design of the LS 400.



September 1986
Extensive testing on American roads begins.



May 1986
Performance testing begins on the Autobahn in Germany.



July 1985
The first of the LS 400 running prototypes is built.



May 1985
A study team visits the U.S. to conduct focus groups while a design team moves to California to develop concepts.



August 1983
At a top-level, top-secret meeting, Toyota Chairman Eiji Toyoda determines the time is right to create a luxury vehicle to challenge the world's best.

1SICKLEX

2001

- #1 Nameplate in Customer Satisfaction with Dealer Service (CSI-2) (J.D. Power and Associates)



2000

- #1 Nameplate in Long-Term Dependability (VDI) (J.D. Power and Associates) (6th year in as many years of eligibility)

- #1 Nameplate in Customer Satisfaction with Dealer Service (CSI-2) (J.D. Power and Associates)



1999

- #1 Nameplate in Vehicle Dependability (VDI) (J.D. Power and Associates) (5th year in as many years of eligibility)

- #1 Nameplate in Customer Satisfaction with Dealer Service (CSI-2) (J.D. Power and Associates)



1998

- #1 Nameplate in Long-Term Dependability (VDI) (J.D. Power and Associates) (4th year in as many years of eligibility)

- #1 Nameplate in Customer Satisfaction (CSI) (J.D. Power and Associates) (7 awards in the past 8 years)



1997

- #1 Nameplate in Long-Term Dependability (VDI) (J.D. Power and Associates)

- #1 Nameplate in Customer Satisfaction (CSI) (J.D. Power and Associates)



1996

- Best Overall Carline in Vehicle Dependability at Five Years of Ownership (VDI) (J.D. Power and Associates)

- Best Overall Nameplate in Sales Satisfaction (Tie) (J.D. Power and Associates)



1995

- Best Overall Carline in Vehicle Dependability at Five Years of Ownership (VDI) (J.D. Power and Associates)

- #1 Carline in Customer Satisfaction (CSI) (J.D. Power and Associates) (Received 5 years in a row)



1994

- Best Overall Carline in Sales Satisfaction (SSI) (J.D. Power and Associates)

- #1 Carline in Customer Satisfaction (CSI) (J.D. Power and Associates)

- Best Overall Carline in Initial Quality (IQS) (J.D. Power and Associates)

- Best Overall Carline in Vehicle Performance in Three Years of Ownership (VPI) (J.D. Power and Associates)



1993

- Best Overall Carline in Initial Quality (IQS) (J.D. Power and Associates)

- #1 Carline in Customer Satisfaction (CSI) (J.D. Power and Associates)



1992

- Best Overall Carline in Sales Satisfaction (SSI) (J.D. Power and Associates)

- #1 Carline in Customer Satisfaction (CSI) (J.D. Power and Associates)



1991

- Best Overall Carline in Initial Quality (IQS) (J.D. Power and Associates)

- Best Overall Carline in Sales Satisfaction (SSI) (J.D. Power and Associates)

- #1 Carline in Customer Satisfaction (CSI) (Tie) (J.D. Power and Associates)



1990

- Best Overall Carline in Initial Quality (IQS) (J.D. Power and Associates)

1SICKLEX

In comparison, look at Acura's history. You will notice no car has won an individual award since the 91 LEGEND. And they skip from 1991 to 2000, to the MDX. So by not SAYING anything, they are saying for 10 years basically, Acura was sub-par. Where are the awards?

After a decade of research and development, Acura launched its first model, the Legend. Acura was the first Japanese luxury brand to appear in the U.S. market, and since its arrival it has offered the luxury car world a consistently appealing combination of precision, performance and comfort.

The Legend sedan, the first Acura, appeared in 1986. Since then, the Acura lineup has grown to serve a wide range of drivers who share a common interest in luxury and performance. A large part of the success of the Legend can be attributed to the fact that it set a new standard for luxury based on qualities that were rare in luxury cars of the day, such as precise handling, responsive powertrains and excellent road manners. In this respect, Acura has had a significant effect on the way people think about luxury cars. Shortly thereafter, the Acura Legend sedan was joined by the Acura Legend coupe and the Acura Integra sport coupes and sedans. The Integra featured attractive contours, high performance potential and outstanding engineering credentials at a competitive price. Its extensive technological innovations, crisp handling and everyday practicality made it the favorite of a generation of enthusiast drivers.

In late 1990, the exotic Acura NSX sport coupe arrived to great fanfare, bringing a host of new technologies to the automotive world. Motor Trend called it the "best sports car ever built." The aluminum bodied, mid-engine supercar redefined the exotic sports car. Here was a two-seater with the performance potential of traditional European exotics but could also be driven every day in complete comfort and with utter reliability.

In 1991, the Acura Legend coupe won Motor Trend's prestigious Import Car of the Year trophy. The same year, the Integra took the laurels as one of Car & Driver's Ten Best, and the Acura Vigor sport sedan was introduced, bridging the gap between the sporty Integra and the luxurious Legend.

The groundbreaking Acura MDX sport-utility vehicle made its debut in 2000. Conceived and developed at a Honda R&D facility in Ohio, the Acura MDX is built in North America. The 265-hp V-6 engine and a custom-developed 4-wheel drive system make the MDX uniquely qualified to travel both the freeways and the back roads with equal confidence. The MDX was designed to avoid the typical compromises that had ensued in the past when manufacturers attempted to wed luxurious comfort and 4-wheel-drive capability. The work appears to have paid off. Shortly after its introduction, the MDX won the prestigious Motor Trend "2001 Sport/Utility of the Year" award.

In 2001, the streamlined Acura RSX sports coupe was introduced. It was the first Acura to employ the i-VTEC™ system, which delivers flexibility, efficiency and LEV-II (Low Emission Vehicle) rated emissions. The 160-hp RSX shared its debut with the even sportier RSX Type-S, which employs a more sophisticated i-VTEC system to help wrest 200 peak horsepower from the 2.0-liter LEV-II engine. The RSX Type-S arrived on the market with an exclusive short-throw 6-speed manual transmission.

Performance enthusiasts across the country were forced to reprioritize their fantasies with the April 2003 introduction of the 2004 Acura TSX sports sedan. The 200-hp TSX, available with Sequential SportShift™ 5-speed automatic or close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission, was quickly recognized as a 4-door antidote to the compromises of settling down. Its tasteful interior, 8-speaker Acura Premium Audio System, standard Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA®) and available Acura Navigation System with Voice Recognition™ established its luxury car credentials, while its 200-hp, 2.4-liter, i-VTEC™ 4-cylinder engine, its agile handling and its 17-inch alloy wheels left no one in doubt about the true nature of its discreet yet palpable alter ego.

And in October of 2003, an even higher form of performance arrived with the debut of the all-new 2004 TL. From its class-leading 270-horsepower, 3.2-liter engine to the bold, sleek lines of its redesigned exterior, the new TL redefines modern luxury. Inside, plush leather seats and an impressive list of technologies fill the instrument panel, including HandsFreeLink™ with Bluetooth® wireless technology and the Acura/ELS® Premium 8-speaker Surround Sound System with DVD-Audio and DTS CD 6-disc Changer.

1SICKLEX

These are facts, not made up. For you to dispute them, is foolish.

Kobe

Basically all you listed were that they launched new vehicles, you state that for any car company, and you did not list anythign for 2004 from JD Powers on intial Quality as that award went to Infiniti. Yes Lexus has won numerous awards in Quality, but the Big 3 Japanese automakers are not that far seperated. Lexus has more vehicles then Acura as the Flagship for Acura is the TL/RL which is not in the same class as the Top of the Line Lexus or the Top of the Line Infiniti Q45. If you look across the board Lexus no longer dominates like the once did with Infiniti steeping up with more models, and the new Acura RL steeping up to flagship status things and perceptions are changing. The fact that people think that BMW and Mercedes are the only true luxury nameplates is far from correct

Infiniti Status has soared.
Audi A8, A6, RS6
BMW
Benz
Lexus
Acura building up
Bently
Range Rover
Maybach
Rolls Royce
Cadillac Stepping up
Lincoln Attempting to step up
VW attempting to step and eat into it's own profit (Audi)
Porsche
the List goes on and on there are not 2 Luxury nameplates and even people who once scoffed at driving Japanese luxury vehicles are being drawn into buy their technology. BMW, MB do not offer half the gadgets of the Japanese luxury nameplates. BMW does not even recommend getting a Navigation system in their vehicles. German NAV systems are just now coming out of being CD based. Cd Changers in the trunk ( no-in dash cd chnagers) SUV's do not come with DVD players as options, the list of technology goes on and on that is missing from the supposed big 2 Luxury nameplates.

1SICKLEX

I agree the competition is catching up with quality. Why? BECAUSE OF LEXUS. Otherwise, no one would be paying quality ANY attention.

I think RR, Bentley, Maybach are considered DREAM CARS. Clearly, they are luxury, costing more than my house.lol

jjsC5

I sure hope there is "nothing on TV" tonight. BJ is gonna be one busy sumbitch replying to all these

boltjames

Ah, just got off the Long Island Ferry and am with the family at the vacation home.

One_Sick_Lexus_Moderator did a fine job of copy / pasting. Mocks Jesus for preferring the TL, then claims that God himself must own a Lexus as it's the sole reason cars have wheels and engines. I must have missed that class in college where they teach that Henry Lexus and his Model T's streamlining of production and mass price reduction were the key to the Japanese ignition of the luxury car market.

Pity that all those awards meant nothing to Lexus in the styling department. My grandfather would love his Lexus if he were alive. Such mature refinement. So much like a hand-carved pipe. So dull it makes you lust for the Toyota's they look like.

Back to the Nissan Maxima that this thread was originally about, I do admit that the Maxima is the greatest car that Lexus ever helped create. God bless Lexus.

BJ

VQ35DE

As a Nissan guy (02 Maxima and 00 Quest SE), I have to side with 1sicklex here. Lexus really is THE benchmark. I still wouldnt get one mainly because they're not sporting enough (exc. GS430) but their existance will only make Acura and Infiniti better by virtue of competition.

As for the topic thread, I think it's important to realize (as I have) that the new Nissan Maxima IS upscale REGARDLESS of the fore/aft Nissan logos. As a 2k2 Max owner, I HATE the styling of it inside and out. Though 4G/5G Maximas were never tagged '4DSC', that spirit still existed until the 04 Maxima. (NOTE: The 4DSC spirit now resides with the 3.5L Altimas - especially the upcoming Altima SE-R) That said, the 04 Max must sell pretty well given that I see more 04 Maximas around here than 2k2/3 Maximas.

The TL is a sweet ride that I do appreciate but a loaded Maxima SE (i.e.: Navi w/ Elite Pkg) really is it's closest competitor. (Even moreso than the G35S/X) So, IMO comparisons are logical. But Nissan does have its work cut for them in trying to sell the Maxima brand as a viable TL alternative. (As nicely equipped as a loaded 5G Maxima was, I dont think the mass market considered the Maxima brand as an alternative to the TL or TL-S; rather it was 5G Accord V6 sedan competition.)

As an auto enthusiast I can say, a make does not a car make. If Honda dumped the Acura name and sold the TL in Honda showrooms as Hondas, it would in NO WAY diminish the TL.

Going back to the recent Nissan Murano discussion: I just drove one 3 weeks ago and I'll just say-->UNDERRATED!!! The description of its acceleration is right on; it's a bit sluggish off the line but it has typical VQ35DE pull @ midrange. I also kept waiting for the "shift" that never occurred. Outside of the Cayenne and FX, I cant think of ANY SUV that can outhandle it. Also, the Murano has A LOT of room in the backseat and has better cargo space (IMO) than the X5. $.02

Teh Jatt

^ I agree with TL6SPD, I raced a v6 5peed Altima not too long ago, plus he had 2 more passengers with him. I have auto tl and this guy was right behind me.

We both did several runs, which I won though but Altima did pretty good with my AUTO TL. We stopped after we did the runs and talked a bit.

DeMAN

2004 Nissan Altima 3.5 SE

Standard Engine3.5L
V6Standard
5 Speed Manual
Horsepower @ RPM245@5800
Torque @ RPM246@4400
Curb Weight MT3197
Curb Weight AT3246

2004 Acura TL Sedan w/ 5-Spd AT and Navigation System

Horsepower @ RPM270@6200
Torque @ RPM238@5000
Curb Weight AT3582


Weight and TQ curb probable made it a closer racer than it should have been.
300# of weight over the Altima.

VQ35DE

Small correction: the 3.5SE/SL Alti now has 250hp/249lb-ft. Seems as though the HP# increases by 5hp with each model year. Sidenote:The new Alti SE-R will probably be at 265hp/255lb-ft.

1SICKLEX

BTW, no one should sleep on the new Suburu Legacy. Stylish and quality filled inside and out, some more great competition.

RWalker2

^ I have to agree.. saw them first hand the other day and they are beautiful!

TLGator

Why must you endlessly punish us with load after load of your Lexus masturbation jizz? Fine, those are the facts. Who cares? Do you have large quantities of Toyota stock, own Toyota/Lexus dealerships, or in some other meaningful way derive personal wealth from Toyota/Lexus, Inc? If not, stop kissing their collective Japanese asses. You are NOT, I repeat, are NOT a superior being because you own a Lexus. Just about every TL owner and leasee on this forum could have picked a Lexus instead. We didn't, and most of us really just don't give a fuck about Lexus.

Let me repeat. We don't give a fuck.

What part of that simple, clearly written English sentence do you just refuse to understand?

1SICKLEX

Maybe you missed the part of me debating with BoltJames. That is who I was pointing my information too. Why not save yourself a seizure and put me on your ignore list? And if you cannot handle people talking about facts from other car-makers, perhaps you should stay away from the mall and other places where multiple races, age groups etc. that don't have the same items as you. This includes the internet.

Or if you tell BoltJames stop spewing his fact-less, blind, biased, arrogant views, us Lexus, Nissan, Infiniti, etc etc guys would not have to post facts.