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I don't disagree, at $51k it's a great deal for the performance but you're still paying for the badge since that's an awful lot of money for a small two door coupe. If they ever make a M2GC, I'll be in line to buy one when it comes out.
The M2GC would be a lot more useful to me as a car than a small 2 door which is what would make it worth more to me than the coupe. In either case, the biggest advantage the Focus has TO ME is the AWD which would be far better than RWD in the winters here.
Then the M2 GC is more useful to you, but not worth more to you, which makes perfect sense to a lot of people with me included. That is the exact reason why i picked 4GC over the 4 Coupe.
But not the if this car is worth this much in $ or this much $ more than that car. It is all relative.
The M2GC would be a lot more useful to me as a car than a small 2 door which is what would make it worth more to me than the coupe. In either case, the biggest advantage the Focus has TO ME is the AWD which would be far better than RWD in the winters here.
you have the same ideology as many many people when it comes to winter driving, and there's nothing wrong with that.
But it is bullshit for the most part.
who the fuck winter drives an M car anyway? Either the poor, who can't afford another car, or the uber rich who just don't give a fuck
when it drops below 60, my car fishtails on the freeway
a few months ago, on the way back from Vegas, a big warning sign came up on both my navi and my tech - Warning! 34 degrees. my GF and i were very confused "Ok.... and?"
Last edited by oonowindoo; 07-21-2016 at 12:44 PM.
Then the M2 GC is more useful to you, but not worth more to you, which makes perfect sense to a lot of people with me included. That is the exact reason why i picked 4GC over the 4 Coupe.
But not the if this car is worth this much in $ or this much $ more than that car. It is all relative.
I agree completely.
I probably won't buy another BMW even though I'd love to. The wife won't sign off on it after my previous experience with their fine reliability ratings.
Originally Posted by TacoBello
you have the same ideology as many many people when it comes to winter driving, and there's nothing wrong with that.
But it is bullshit for the most part.
who the fuck winter drives an M car anyway? Either the poor, who can't afford another car, or the uber rich who just don't give a fuck
I'm poor. This is why I have a Jeep and two Hondas not a BMW.
Also, it's not BS. Can you tell me that AWD isn't better than RWD or FWD for the winter?
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
when it drops below 60, my car fishtails on the freeway
a few months ago, on the way back from Vegas, a big warning sign came up on both my navi and my tech - Warning! 34 degrees. my GF and i were very confused "Ok.... and?"
When it's just below 60 is prime top down weather with the heater set to the first notch on the fan speed. Perfect driving weather.
I'm poor. This is why I have a Jeep and two Hondas not a BMW.
Also, it's not BS. Can you tell me that AWD isn't better than RWD or FWD for the winter?
It's BS in the sense that people feel they NEED AWD for the winters. Here (and I'm only talking about here), there are maybe 20 days a year where the roads are not clear. If I had to choose between the M2 and RS, the AWD would be one of the last things I'd be considering. Most people have no idea how AWD even works, or even different types of AWD. Not all AWD systems are the same, or even remotely similar. People just see the three letters and feel they NEED it, without understanding it.
I'm not saying that's you, Sam. I feel you likely know just a tad bit more than the average consumer, and that's why I call it BS for the majority. It's funny to even read the threads here where people complain about the regular AWD system in the RDX. Did they know what they were buying? Clearly not.
That, and in over a decade of winter driving, I've never felt I NEEDED AWD. There was the odd time where it would've been nice. But rare.
I think what is much more important is a good set of winter tires.
It's BS in the sense that people feel they NEED AWD for the winters. Here (and I'm only talking about here), there are maybe 20 days a year where the roads are not clear. If I had to choose between the M2 and RS, the AWD would be one of the last things I'd be considering. Most people have no idea how AWD even works, or even different types of AWD. Not all AWD systems are the same, or even remotely similar. People just see the three letters and feel they NEED it, without understanding it.
I'm not saying that's you, Sam. I feel you likely know just a tad bit more than the average consumer, and that's why I call it BS for the majority. It's funny to even read the threads here where people complain about the regular AWD system in the RDX. Did they know what they were buying? Clearly not.
That, and in over a decade of winter driving, I've never felt I NEEDED AWD. There was the odd time where it would've been nice. But rare.
I think what is much more important is a good set of winter tires.
I whole heartedly agree with you but if there's the option of RWD vs a performance AWD system for a car for the same or lower price, I'd get the AWD every time. You are absolutely right that no one who lives in any sort of a city needs AWD but it does help from time to time.
Plus if you add a good set of winters to AWD, you get an unstoppable tank. We have blizzaks on my wife's Accord and it's pretty much as good as my Jeep in the snow. I really want to get snows for the Cherokee soon.
It's BS in the sense that people feel they NEED AWD for the winters. Here (and I'm only talking about here), there are maybe 20 days a year where the roads are not clear. If I had to choose between the M2 and RS, the AWD would be one of the last things I'd be considering. Most people have no idea how AWD even works, or even different types of AWD. Not all AWD systems are the same, or even remotely similar. People just see the three letters and feel they NEED it, without understanding it.
I'm not saying that's you, Sam. I feel you likely know just a tad bit more than the average consumer, and that's why I call it BS for the majority. It's funny to even read the threads here where people complain about the regular AWD system in the RDX. Did they know what they were buying? Clearly not.
That, and in over a decade of winter driving, I've never felt I NEEDED AWD. There was the odd time where it would've been nice. But rare.
I think what is much more important is a good set of winter tires.
It's BS in the sense that people feel they NEED AWD for the winters. Here (and I'm only talking about here), there are maybe 20 days a year where the roads are not clear. If I had to choose between the M2 and RS, the AWD would be one of the last things I'd be considering. Most people have no idea how AWD even works, or even different types of AWD. Not all AWD systems are the same, or even remotely similar. People just see the three letters and feel they NEED it, without understanding it.
I'm not saying that's you, Sam. I feel you likely know just a tad bit more than the average consumer, and that's why I call it BS for the majority. It's funny to even read the threads here where people complain about the regular AWD system in the RDX. Did they know what they were buying? Clearly not.
That, and in over a decade of winter driving, I've never felt I NEEDED AWD. There was the odd time where it would've been nice. But rare.
I think what is much more important is a good set of winter tires.
What are you going to do with the Z come winter? Do you have winter tires for it or do you have another vehicle?
FWIW, I've seen M3s and M5s drive just fine in brutal winters...and I'm up in the Norf Pole. What do the drivers have? Some darn good winter rubbers.
AWD and harsh winter roads? MEH. Whenever I'm travelling on some major freeway during a storm, what are ALL the cars in the ditches? SUVs and pickup-trucks...the same morons who think cuz they have AWD or 4X4 that they can handle it. Hey dumb@$$, what's making your car STOP? Can AWD or 4X4 help a car STOP!???
It's the tires...always about the tires.
Which is why the RLX is invincible and cannot be beat by ANY car when you upgrade those rubbers.
The BMW M2, Jeremy Clarkson's New Favorite M Car, Ever
TWO RECENTLY launched cars have sent the specialist motoring press into a squeaking frenzy of tinkle-clutching ecstasy. One is the Ford Focus RS, which, they say, is as good as a Nissan GT-R, for less than half the money. And the other is the car you can see pictured here this morning: the BMW M2.
I’ll be honest. I’ve yawned through their eulogies, thinking: “I’m sure the Ford is very good … but only for people who can’t actually afford a Nissan GT-R. And the BMW M2 is only very good for people who can’t afford an M4.”
Seriously. Who in their right mind is going to wake up one morning and think: “Yes. I have the money to pay for an M4, but I shall buy something smaller, less good-looking and with less power and less equipment instead”? That’s like saying: “I can afford to take my holiday this year on a superyacht in the Caribbean. But I’ve decided to rent a cottage in Margate instead. Because that’ll be better.”
The problem is that not-very-well-paid road-testers are like Brummies, endlessly banging on about how Birmingham is so much better than London, when everyone else in the entire world knows it just isn’t. Unless you have only £7.50 to spend on a house.
I’ll be honest, then. As I climbed behind the wheel of the M2, my hackles were up. I wanted to scoff and scorn, and happily there was plenty to be disappointed about. The steering wheel was too big, the plastics were horrid, there’s some kind of eco-readout on the dash and the seat was so high I felt as if I was sitting on the car rather than in it.
And, yes, while it costs considerably less than the M4, it’s still a whopping £44,070, which is a lot for what is only a jumped-up, pumped-up version of the 1-series. Which is basically a BMW Golf.
But then, about an hour later, I was in a secret-squirrel car park near Stamford Bridge, on my way to that dismal Chelsea game against Manchester City. It was chock-full of Aston Martins and Range Rovers, as you’d imagine, and yet somehow the little BMW didn’t look out of place at all. It may be only a 1-series in a muscle-man suit, but thanks to its flared wheelarches and the way the tyres seem to be stretched to breaking point to fit over the huge rims, it looks kinda cool. I liked it.
And then three hours after that, I was on the A1, going round a long left-hander at 70mph, and I thought: “Hang on a minute. This steering is absolutely bleeding fantastic.” I wasn’t taxing the car in any way at all; a Reliant Robin could have taken that bend at 70mph with ease. And yet I could feel that the steering was weighted perfectly and that it was talking to me in a gentle whisper.
And what makes that even more astonishing is that the power assistance is electric. Which means that the sensations were all artificial. If BMW ever makes a sex robot, you should buy one immediately, because it’ll be indistinguishable from going to bed with an actual person.
Later I was overtaken by a Porsche 911 GTS that was travelling at about a million. And then, before I’d had a chance to think, “Golly, that was quick”, my world was rocked by an Aston Martin DB9 that tore by at a million and one. It’s been a while since I’ve seen two cars really going for it on the public highway. It’s a hobby I thought had been killed off by speed cameras. But plainly, up there in the flatlands of eastern England, there’s nothing else to do once the turnips are planted, so the locals are still at it.
I didn’t join in. Well, not much. But, coming off one roundabout, I may have put my foot down a bit, into the overboost zone of the M2’s turbocharged torque lake, and there’s no getting round the fact that it was faster than both of the way more expensive GT cars.
At first I thought the M2 simply felt fast because from behind the wheel it’s as if you’re in a low-rent hatchback. So you’re not expecting much of a shove in the back. But, actually, it’s fast no matter what yardstick you use. Round the Hockenheim racetrack in Germany it’s faster, apparently, than its bigger brothers.
And that’s because it’s not just fast in a straight line. It’s also fast through the corners. And not just fast, but a complete delight.
It’s worth remembering at this point that while the M4 is extremely good, it is not perfect. It has a lot of electronic jiggery- pokery in the steering and suspension systems that in the M2 is gone. BMW’s engineers set it up to be as good as it can be, and you aren’t given buttons to change anything. That’s why the M2 is cheaper than the M4: because it’s less complicated. And because it’s less complicated, it is a better drive. Much better. It’s so good that in a few bends I was actually dribbling with joy.
Thanks to a clever electromechanical differential, it can corner with its tail out like a Looney Tunes muscle car, or right on the raggedy edge of adhesion like a proper racer. It’s brilliant at both disciplines. And you want to know the best bit? It’s not in the least bit uncomfortable. Sure, it’s stiff, so it’s a bit bumpy on poor road surfaces, but it never jars.
My only concern is that in the last small BMW M car — the 1M — I suffered the biggest and most sudden spin in my entire road-testing career. It hit a puddle while travelling in a straight line and swapped ends in an instant. Will the M2 do that? I don’t know. It wasn’t raining.
Away from the performance stuff, you get seats in the back that can be used by humans and a large boot. And now it’s time to get back to the performance stuff, with news that the M2 comes with a launch control system that permits what are called “smoky burnout” starts. Utterly pointless. You’ll never use it. But it’s fun to know you could.
There have been many M cars over the years. The lineage stretches back to 1986 and the original toe-in-the-water, left- hand-drive-only M3, which many still regard as the best. I disagree. It was too racy. Too serious. And in the wrong hands — mine, at the time — a twitching nightmare.
I like the M3 before the present model — the one with the V8 — and I adore the current M6 Gran Coupé. And then there was the original, 286bhp M5: the ultimate Q-car. It looked like the sort of box that your chest freezer was delivered in but it went like a spaceship. That’s always been my favourite M car. Until now.
The road-testers were right. The M2 is a lot cheaper than the M4. And a lot better as well. It’s a fabulous little car, and now I’m looking forward to getting my hands on a Focus RS. Which, apparently, is even better.
What most people attribute to a film surface protection being functional is the visual indicator of water beading on the paint film surface. However, all water beading proves is that high surface tension is present, just because a product creates high surface tension, (water beading / sheeting) does not guarantee the coating is actually providing real and meaningful protection.
Meguiar's invested decade into trying to educate people that water beading is a bad thing because if water lands on your car and you're not around to remove it, and then it dries, there's a great potential risk that the water, or more specifically, substances in the water and on the surface of your car that mix with the water will etch a hole into your car's paint that you will then have to remove by removing the paint surrounding the hole.
But try as hard as Meguiar's could, people want their car wax or their paint sealant to bead water.
You can't change people.
Educated people in the art of polishing paint understand that it's better to have a wax or paint sealant that sheets water instead of creating maximum surface tension which causes water beading, but over the last 60 or 70 years the people have spoken and the majority of people that pay attention to this topic want their wax or paint sealant to bead water really well and bead water for a long time.
Although, since the condition of my cars after a rain typically tends towards "grimy-matte-looking-mess", I'm ecstatic when I'm in the "beading" group. I'll work my way to "sheeting" eventually.
07-21-2016, 11:56 AM
Perfect driving weather.
