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Maybe due to the fact I hotlinked it from FChat & it changed the url, so only another member would be able to click it. Annoys me when forums do that, tbh.
Maybe due to the fact I hotlinked it from FChat & it changed the url, so only another member would be able to click it. Annoys me when forums do that, tbh.
shiett.. dealerships are charging a hefty premium on the hellcats.. around $20k now to get on the list.. and that's no promise on the sticker price, plus only $5k goes to the car. The rest goes in the dealer's pocket. Fuck that noise.
Look how that's turned out. That was a good investment. Yes, it's making him very rich but he's also not being a twat about the technology. That investment/bailout/whatever we made in Tesla is already starting to pay dividends.
Now, if we could get rid of the mandatory, entrenched dealer system ...
Tesla did not receive a 'bailout'. They qualified for an advanced technology vehicle manufacturing $465mil interest-bearing loan from the DOE in '09. They received the funds in '10 and paid it back in full, with interest, in '13 - 9 years ahead of schedule.
Now, if we could get rid of the mandatory, entrenched dealer system ...
Unless manufacturers follow the idea of Tesla and completely manage their dealer networks (even then, Tesla is argued to potentially become a monopoly by controlling all the prices), this is a terrible idea.
I understand the idea behind Tesla to cut out the middle man & I think they should be allowed to do it if they want to take on the task of managing every one, but your desire puts me & hundreds of thousands potentially out of work.
Unless manufacturers follow the idea of Tesla and completely manage their dealer networks (even then, Tesla is argued to potentially become a monopoly by controlling all the prices), this is a terrible idea.
I understand the idea behind Tesla to cut out the middle man & I think they should be allowed to do it if they want to take on the task of managing every one, but your desire puts me & hundreds of thousands potentially out of work.
I have no opinion on Tesla's attempts to operate factory stores, but I think you reaction is a knee-jerk. Even if every single car manufacturer were to remove "dealers" from the mix (i.e. the dealership owners), the actual structure would need to remain, largely, in place. Namely, they would still need people to sell and service the cars. Those people would, for the most part, come from the same set of people who now sell and service the cars.
I have no opinion on Tesla's attempts to operate factory stores, but I think you reaction is a knee-jerk. Even if every single car manufacturer were to remove "dealers" from the mix (i.e. the dealership owners), the actual structure would need to remain, largely, in place. Namely, they would still need people to sell and service the cars. Those people would, for the most part, come from the same set of people who now sell and service the cars.
Did you read the first thing I wrote?
Unless manufacturers follow the idea of Tesla and completely manage their dealer networks
How many dealerships of 1 brand are in a certain radius in this country? Even if the manufacturers keep people in place, they're still going to close multiple other locations to cut costs. It may have been a bit of a knee-jerk since I thankfully work in one of the largest dealers for Lexus, so my job is somewhat safe in that regard. But, other employees at our sister dealer don't have that same piece of mind.
If Lexus took over, there would be no doubt they would shut the sister dealership down. What would customers do? Complain that they have to drive 20 miles to us? Lexus won't care because they own both. Our executives wouldn't care either; the owner of the company made his money with resorts in the Caribbean. The dealerships are just extra income.
As I said, I'm for Tesla to run their own company & take on the task of managing all their networks. But, to think getting rid of the dealership network altogether is silly. For every dealer a manufacturer finds worth keeping & employing, it'll let 2-3 others go in the area because again, you'll be buying directly from them regardless.
Look how that's turned out. That was a good investment. Yes, it's making him very rich but he's also not being a twat about the technology. That investment/bailout/whatever we made in Tesla is already starting to pay dividends.
Now, if we could get rid of the mandatory, entrenched dealer system ...
He paid it back ahead of schedule. The gubmint made very little on the deal... and he was way rich before Tesla. Tesla made him broke. DOE bailed him out. Thankfully things have gone full circle.. from begging for money to making money.
I don't think dealerships are the problem. It's the mismanagement and overinflated US auto industry that's the problem. How are we going to compete with other auto makers when they do it with higher efficiency and for less? We need to stay competitive, which they're starting to do.
Don't get me wrong. Tesla is a cool car company and it's the future. Hopefully the new battery mfg plant will make electric cars mainstream.. and make it less expensive to own a Tesla Model S.
Originally Posted by b52bgz
Tesla did not receive a 'bailout'. They qualified for an advanced technology vehicle manufacturing $465mil interest-bearing loan from the DOE in '09. They received the funds in '10 and paid it back in full, with interest, in '13 - 9 years ahead of schedule.
The fact that if they didn't receive said loan, they would have been gone belly up, qualifies it as a bailout. Musk burned through most of his fortune by the time the loan was granted. His ventures including Tesla were on fumes.
How many dealerships of 1 brand are in a certain radius in this country? Even if the manufacturers keep people in place, they're still going to close multiple other locations to cut costs. It may have been a bit of a knee-jerk since I thankfully work in one of the largest dealers for Lexus, so my job is somewhat safe in that regard. But, other employees at our sister dealer don't have that same piece of mind.
If Lexus took over, there would be no doubt they would shut the sister dealership down. What would customers do? Complain that they have to drive 20 miles to us? Lexus won't care because they own both. Our executives wouldn't care either; the owner of the company made his money with resorts in the Caribbean. The dealerships are just extra income.
As I said, I'm for Tesla to run their own company & take on the task of managing all their networks. But, to think getting rid of the dealership network altogether is silly. For every dealer a manufacturer finds worth keeping & employing, it'll let 2-3 others go in the area because again, you'll be buying directly from them regardless.
I don't doubt there would be some consolidation, but I do doubt it would be as pronounced as you seem to suggest. I can certainly envision where the various manufacturers step up their "convenience" pitch by reducing the exclusivity radius. Competition is a pretty strong motivator.
BTW, my Paternal Grandfather (I don't know which brands) and my oldest brother (Ford) both owned dealerships for their living. I'm not advocating for anything; I just don't think the sky would completely fall if there was a sea change in how cars were sold to the end-user.
The fact that if they didn't receive said loan, they would have been gone belly up, qualifies it as a bailout. Musk burned through most of his fortune by the time the loan was granted. His ventures including Tesla were on fumes.
Hardly the same thing as the bailouts the other automakers received. In fact, Telsa had to have matching funds to qualify for the loan as i recall. And I believe Musk was so broke that he ponied up another, what was it? $65-85mil of his own cash? But, yeah, it was essential to the survival of Tesla and got them to their IPO. This is not an uncommon strategy; companies do this quite often.
A really cool thing about Tesla/Musk is that they will share their technology with competitors rather than 'patenting up'. Musk has an interesting philosophy in general. Look at SpaceX (which I think is more interesting to Musk than Tesla). Have you ever checked out HyperX?
yeah, I never saw it as a "bailout". I mean it was a frickin' new company run by a billionaire!!! haha. It was an incentive to say "hey, the US government supports your effort". And that's how I saw it. And as mentioned it was paid back swiftly.
Unless manufacturers follow the idea of Tesla and completely manage their dealer networks (even then, Tesla is argued to potentially become a monopoly by controlling all the prices), this is a terrible idea.
I understand the idea behind Tesla to cut out the middle man & I think they should be allowed to do it if they want to take on the task of managing every one, but your desire puts me & hundreds of thousands potentially out of work.
I understand that. But, your argument is essentially the same argument every entrenched industry/market/whatever makes when technology comes along and threatens obsolescence. The old model of dealerships is on a ticking clock. It's just a matter of time.
Dealerships that provide good service will be able to survive because people will want to buy cars on impulse. They will also need those cars serviced and repaired. Some manufacturers may have no interest in running their own dealer networks.
However, some manufacturers might ... And right now the NADA, etc are blocking them because they are using the government to protect their business from modernization. That rarely ends well.
So, I have no interest in putting you out of work Rick. But I think that it's hypocritical for some people (not you) to go on and on about a free market and then only actually want one when it's convenient for them.
If a dealer cannot compete with a manufacturer-owned store then I'd have to question the viability and quality of that dealership in general. I think 95% of the dealers I've been to suck. They suck to buy it from them and they suck to go there for service.
I used to sell cars in college. I know the life and I know the business a little. The internet was a threat until they figured out how to use it to their advantage. They bitched and complained about how people were coming in with the invoice price and negotiating from there rather than MSRP down.
Things change ... I think a culling of a lot of shitty dealer chains might not be a bad thing. It would certainly help a brand like Kia and Hyundai. My experience with those dealers has been that they are generally shady motherfuckers who sold cars to people that couldn't afford them by cheating the system.
If you haven't been to a Tesla store, do yourself a favor and go if there's one close to you. It's a different experience. I found it quite refreshing.
I have serious issues with the Texas ADA crying foul with Tesla's sales/marketing/service strategy. TADA's main argument for not allowing Tesla to sell direct is they are protecting the consumer by insuring after sales service that a big, bad car company might not otherwise provide. Really? This is your argument? You're protecting little ol' consumer me? Well, bless your heart but allow me to pull on my boots before the bullshit gets much deeper.
I totally get dealerships and their reasons for existence. But one of those reasons is not to protect me from the car companies.
If you haven't been to a Tesla store, do yourself a favor and go if there's one close to you. It's a different experience. I found it quite refreshing.
I have serious issues with the Texas ADA crying foul with Tesla's sales/marketing/service strategy. TADA's main argument for not allowing Tesla to sell direct is they are protecting the consumer by insuring after sales service that a big, bad car company might not otherwise provide. Really? This is your argument? You're protecting little ol' consumer me? Well, bless your heart but allow me to pull on my boots before the bullshit gets much deeper.
I totally get dealerships and their reasons for existence. But one of those reasons is not to protect me from the car companies.
10-11-2014, 12:07 PM
