I had that happen when I came in to what I felt was a bit too hard where my braking was a tad late into turn 8 at MOSPORT. This was in a Porsche 992 S or 4S during one of their track days and part of that was leaving the stability control on (personally, I have no use for nanny systems like stability control and ABS, even on my motorcycles). Certainly not a "slam on your bakes" but a much faster brake application providing a bit too much weight shift to the front. BTW, I have had that butt wiggle before in a car without nanny controls.

As long as nobody is slowing me down for it, I usually hit 152 mph prior to the turn in at turn 8. There is a long uphill straight leading up to it from the Moss Corner hairpin at turn 5B which is slower and provides a slower drive out. Turn 5C, 6 and 7 are straight in my books and allow for full open throttle to turn 8.

I am getting all pumped up for the next track day. Little wonder why I do not drive my Porsche on public roads...it is damn boring. Last year I put just over 800 miles on the GTS; I put more on my motorcycles.

 

So the progression continued throughout today and I'm really getting consistent with my lines and braking. The instructor said today "you just NAIL that Esses and you just left that GT3 in the dust 2x there." No Phil, no wiggle at all, not even the slightest and I've never heard anyone complain about that either. Strange. Maybe it's a Sebring-specific thing (pavement?) This really is an addicting activity for sure, expensive too.

 

How fast are you blowing through tires and brake pads doing all of this? Looks like a ton of fun though!

 

I just put a more aggressive set of pads on my T by Ferodo and still had 50% left of those I took off. At that point, I'd guess those pads conservatively had ~200 laps at the Glen on the long course (3.4 miles). The tires needed replacing at 14K which is what I expected anyway.

 

addendum: I see the reason why people prefer buckets over seats for tracking. My left lower butt cheek was sore this morning when I woke up. I wondered WTH happened, first lap today I was like "Oh now I know where that ache came from!" Tracking is a violent, rollicking good time. Also going to buy one of these as well. https://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/...straints/hans/

 

Any plans for harnesses? Even if just for track use.

 

^^ that's what the Simpson HANS device is meant to be a substitute for. I don't want to bolt a roll cage in to my car bc that's what's required to use harnesses in DE events.

 

Gotcha.
Was thinking harness more for less fatigue on the body holding yourself in the corners. But, I'm sure the T's seats are very supportive.

Back in my autocross days, we did the poor man's harness. Push the seat back, lock the belt with a tug & pull the seat forward.
Works better with manual seats.

 

nobody willing to give you a butt massage there?

dont they make a harness that goes around your torso which then latches to a Hans to tether your head / neck?

adding the roll bar in your car would be a pain since you have the rear seat in (btw, 100% right decision to have a rear seat in my opinion).
Enjoy the rest of your time at the track!

 

No couldn't find a willing masseuse but there were a good number of hotties there. I do believe Simpson has the torso harness you speak off, a buddy has the HANS III and said it rides up so it does need to be held from below. Yeah, never will I put a roll bar in my T. I'll keep it forever and add a used P car to the fold used mostly for tracking but likely still steerable.

 

On the subject of brakes since you and Chief (and possibly others on here) have lots of track time, I had an issue a couple of weeks ago at MOSPORT.

This is my fourth season using the 992 S or 4S on the track and I have never had the following issue ever. The vehicle had less than 600 miles on it, basically a new car. During one of my sessions on the GP track, after about the second lap I started to get a lot of vibration and it got worse while under braking, especially heavy braking. Two more laps of that and I pulled into the pits. Doing almost 150 MPH at the end of the Mario Andretti straight, the last thing I wanted was a wheel coming off (loose wheel bolts or wheel bearing nut).

Coming to a stop in pit lane, I rotated my steering wheel CCW in order to see my tire (I felt it came from the left side) and the brakes were smoking (first time I ever saw that). The other instructor came to meet me and explained what it was (can't remember exactly what he said) and he stated "not to worry". OK, so I went back out.

Anyone know what the instructor was referring to. Some kind of "tire pick-up" and why would it get worse under braking? I work on cars - motorcycles - aircraft from A to Z and this issue is news to me.

On a similar note, as for the brake wiggle, this year I was getting it both from the front and back at the same time...very hard braking. Maybe I'll brake a bit earlier and take it easier on the brakes and tires. That wiggle could be due to the nanny controls if they are on.

 

Did you have a lot of as David Hobbes would say, "clag" on your hot tires? Tires pick up other bits of rubber when hot and make your tires a bit rougher riding. I don't know why your brakes would smoke though and when you say the brakes were smoking I assume you mean the pads?

 

LOL at the guy with “don’t worry about it”. If I’m driving a car and it develops a vibration all of a sudden, I’m would be worried about it until I know the root cause.
Did you feel any pulse on your brake pedal? Or it was purely a car shake? I mean it is possible that tire pickup on a front tire could shake the and while braking, you load the front so much more that it amplifies the vibration… Being a S or 4S, I assume steel brakes?

as far as smoking brakes, I saw that a few times with my cousins touring racing or track days, but from what I remember it was just debris from the track caught in the caliper. (Not between the pad and the disc, just one of the other nook and crannies, like a piece of “clay” sitting at the top of the pads, touching the disc a bit nestled in the caliper.

regarding the wiggle, my instructor’s fix was to roll on the brake and once you’re on, absolutely clamp hard, just don’t transition from throttle to brake in a stabbing fashion causing the nose to rapidly dive. When it was doing the wiggle, no lights were coming on the dash, and I didn’t feel the ABS kick in. That said, it’s very possible the Nannie’s intervene before displays are shown on the dash.

 

So I heard but I was staying off them on the correct line.

I would think it was the pads. I mean Porsche brakes are some of the best on a car, if not the best and my level of driving cannot be taxing them 100%. Although MOSPORT is known as the fastest track in North America and the brake hats were hot and I mean ultra hot, forget about laying a finger on them.

I have read stick-on weights due to high heat can let go, but then why would vibrations diminish on other runs.

Edited to add: are you disengaging your parking/emergency brakes before shutting your 992 down so that they are not in contact after a cool-down lap?

 

Yeah must be the pads burning which on my car were made by Pagid, a solid brake pad provider. Thankfully my car is a manual so the parking brakes do not ever engage automatically.

 

Same here, but the instructor who also races NASCAR knows more than I do when it comes to track issues. I think he called it "tire or rubber pick-up". I don't take chances coming from the aviation world where many of my friends that also instructed with me and others that I flew with with are six-feet under. Sam Fellows told me "right move" when I pulled in. His father was Ron Fellows of Corvette fame.

In any case, I am going to keep on digging for an explanation till the answer I get satisfies me.

No brake pedal shake, just a front end vibration. You got a point there and I think you got it on loading the front under very hard braking making the vibration feel worse. Yes, steel brakes on the S and 4S.

The last thing you want to do is see-saw the vehicle during braking. I saw Sam Fellows' track data and his braking was a rapid rise and a slow decay so that the front does not bounce up on rebound to upset his car.

The nanny control is a stability control where brakes are applied to maintain...control. Could be why the rear is snaking back and forth a little while under very heavy braking. This year, the front and rear were both doing that at the same time. Personally, I hate ALL nanny controls be it ABS, stability control, etc....I wish my cars and my last motorcycle did not have ABS.

 

I am no where near talented enough, so Nannie’s stay on during track days, but I do put on my big boy pants during Autocross…

you mentioning ABS brought back a good ole memory. A family member had an event on highway once. ( I mean an organized event, traffic was closed on that side of the highway) Autocross style but bigger speed, and in a transition he went a bit wide going over the “wake up”rumbles and all the gravel on the side of the highway. The back end immediately came around, he went full lock, but wasn’t enough to catch it so his next move was stomp the brakes to lock up and continue the direction of travel. Unfortunately, the car had abs so it wanted to go the way the car was pointing, which was a deep V grassy median divider, then up the other end, and crossed into the incoming highway traffic lanes (which were not blocked, only one direction was stopped) … anyways, luckily traffic was super light, but scary moment. We had a good ole camcorder in the car, he was absolutely F-bombing the ABS… this was in the late 90s, fun times…


oh regarding the weights flying off during a track day, I totally had that happen, but that was very much speed related, I don’t remember braking affecting it any. I actually skipped out my last session, I’m a bit overly risk averse, so if I’m not 100% comfortable, I don’t push myself.

 

Signed up for one last hurrah at the Glen; "Octoberfast" 9/30-10/1.

 

Sweet! Have fun!
did you get the chip / tune you wanted?

 

No I'm going to wait until next year I believe.

 

Fantastic couple of days at the Niagara Region PCA's "Octoberfast" at the Glen. I was getting to the point of consistently hitting my turn in, apex and track out points on every corner. The two sessions I did yesterday morning were really enjoyable as well as the afternoon sessions too. I am one of the fastest drivers in our group being bested by guys running either a GT4 Cup Car or a track-prepped Cayman GTS with an LS3 engine in it. Those were the only two out of 18 faster than me, really really cool! I'm totally hooked-now I have to buy a track prepped car. lol.

 

Yeah, I agree, if you start chasing laptimes like that, you need a track car with a cage, harness and Hans.

glad you had a great time out there!

 

In full addiction mode, looking for a track car. Something like this perhaps?



https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1404158

 

Chatted wit ha guy in a 991 at COTA while waiting for the gridlock to ease.
His track car is a GT4 Cayman [982.2 IIRC]

 

Now this is exactly the kind of car I'm looking for currently, livery and all.

https://racecarsforyou.com/listing/2...cayman-s-gtb1/

 

If I wasn’t so dead set on getting a 718 Cayman I would’ve gotten a 2012 Cayman R instead.

 

This baby won a race with the Queen of the Nurburgring driving, Sabine Schmitz! Out of my price range though. https://racecarsforyou.com/listing/2...ing-clubsport/

 

some friends of mine have a cayman R which did get a fair amount of track and Autocross time. Unfortunately they have been fighting some issues with their transmission. Last track day, it was odd, they would get some headlight error, which would soon turn into a miss shift and limp mode. From their feedback, they said the gt4 is fairly more beefed up to take track use.

 

I see. Well a GT4 is slightly out of my reach. I’m fine with my 718 for now, maybe in a couple years.

 

In the back of my mind during my search for a DE car I keep thinking what do I buy that isn't going to be a huge PITA and expensive to maintain? I don't know the answer to that question other than to guess a Miata.

 

Elise, Cayman, S2000, Saturn Sky/Pontiac Solstice, FRS/BRZ (if you hate yourself ). I'm sure I can think of some others.

What's your preferred budget?

 

$40-70k

 

That Gulf Cayman
Says sold, so I guess a is in order?

I loved the little seat time I've had in an Elise, but I don't know that they're in the 'cheaper/simpler maintenance' category. I do know that alignments are a huge pain of shim, check, shim again, check. At least on the older ones.
For a toy, I'd be more inclined to look for an Exige.

 

Base or S Cayman with PDK...or Miata.

 

Maybe could find one of the ND spec racecars for a decent deal, but then would need to trailer it to the track.

 

Also a BMW 1 or 2 series would be a great little track car.

 

I think FRs/brz have oil starvation issues, possibly overheating too? I remember at a DE, a guy there had one and his hood was open a lot, he had to sit out some sessions and left early.

as for the Elise, isn’t the clamshell super difficult or expensive to repair if you have a brush with a wall?

Chief, do you want a car and 2 seats? If no, what about something like a Spec racer Ford?

 

Radical SR1
Ariel Atom?

I'm assuming wants something that can be driven to/from the track & doesn't need to be trailered.

 

I'm unconcerned about trailering to/from a track. My friend has a large shop a short distance from the Glen and I could take the back roads up there without crossing paths with the po po. I have looked at M2's as well but seriously am preferring to drive a PDK or auto tranmission car. I would prefer a Cayman over just about anything given everything I've heard Cayman DE guys say about their cars.

 

lol Radical isn’t in price range I don’t think.
Ariel seems to have a pretty wide pricing range from what I see, so I dunno…

I didn’t assume road legal because of the cayman he posted. Also, just projecting my opinion here, but if I was to get serious about track stuff, I wouldn’t want a mechanical issue or maybe a bent rim keep me from returning home.