neuronbob

*raises hand*

Why all the sturm und drang in this thread?

I would look at the Optima too. Looks OK, has massive bang to buck. My neighbor across the street upgraded from an old Taurus to one, and my neighbor a couple houses down from me traded in his BMW 7 series for one. I see them everywhere here. Must be halfway decent for the masses of suburban Cleveland to be considering them.

BEAR-AvHistory

Just to be clear its a current inventory list you are making fun of not a historical one. Its also not complete since it does not include the Yamaha because its is not a car but does IMHO look nice.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

I don't feel like stating whats already been stated but not taking the economic downfall of 2008 and the fact that the 5 series was initially received as one of the worst looking to debut and turned out to be the best selling 5 series, I dont know why it took a 50% loss.

About the officer, I implied he was green with envy, never said jealous and I meant he was "ill willed".

I was literally in front of my gated parking garage gate, about to open the door when he turned the lights on. Surprised I turned around, followed his instructions to return to my vehicle and waited for him to get to my door. When he got there I almost thought it was a joke, he had more acne on his face than a pubescent teen and shrieked when he spoke, the only thing that made him more surprised than my age when he approaced (I have a young looking face), was the white, blond haired, green eyed woman in the passanger seat. Having officer friends I thought to myself no sweat, I'll lower all my windows so he sees I have nothing to hide, be respectful as I always am anyway and hand him my reg, insurance, and license with a sargeants PBA underneath it. Cadet Jimmy (don't remember his name), took the stuff, returned it promptly and asked me to put up my windows half way. I thought to myself F, just my luck the only goddamn cadet that doesn't know what a PBA is, is going to give me a tint ticket. He measured the windows without properly administering the test and in court I got it dismissed.

Unless you live in NYC and are a minority (I'm dominican/italian with a italian lastname and look more hispanic), you'd think I'm paranoid and it had nothing to do with, which is fine. I was there you weren't

Hapa DC5

Here you go Kevin...

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...74&postcount=9

Upper right corner of that post is a link to the entire thread.

oo7spy

Although, I do own everything Honda could put into a car in 2007.

BEAR-AvHistory

Hey nice reply.......thing is your original post reads like you believe your s**t don't stink because you drive a $40K Acura & maybe the cop drives a Kia Optima so he went after you.

"""I was in a similiar situation once, young officer pulls me over and tickets me for tints, he was obviously a hater but what can you do? Rhetorical question, I fought them on account of him not properly administering the test and got them dismissed. While he ticketed me I never got upset because I had the satisfaction of knowing we're about the same age, I'm in a 40k+ car with over a 5th of his salary in mods, he probably stuck in a pos and is feelin' pouty""""


Also the ethnic whine as an excuse does not do much for me. I grew up in the Jersey City projects, got educated on sports scholarships, worked my way up from the bottom on Wall Street over 30 odd years, my wife of 45 years is Cuban & was one of the first female VP’s at Morgan.

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

If I were to buy another car, I would definately consider Kia.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

New Kia is nice... but not sure I'd ever choose an Optima over an Audi. To each their own though...

And really, how many times are we going to have these same conversations?



This thread is pretty close to being locked down...

g37guy01

I totallly get it, he didn't like the darn car, the next gen Audi wasn't for your neighbor, so he decided to downsize.

neuronbob

BEAR-AvHistory

Being biased I really enjoyed this commercial & wish Cadillac well. Nice to see US cars as players.

oo7spy

So, running an Auto Trader search for used 2011 Kia Optimas versus used 2011 CRVs and 2011 Civics gives these numbers for the entire nation.

Optimas for sale = 939 / 73,886 2011 (Jan-Nov) sales = 1.27% resale rate
CRVs for sale = 841 / 196,787 2011 (Jan-Nov) sales = 0.43% resale rate
Civics for sale = 1,741 / 200,690 2011 (Jan-Nov) sales = 0.87% resale rate

The Optima gets put up for sale almost 3 times more than the CRV and 1.5 times more than the Civic.

Why do so many people want to get rid of them so quickly?


Kia sales link:http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html
Honda sales link:http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...ber-sales.html

pttl

^
Obviously because they're junk.

saturno_v

So you tell me why he did "downside"...downside from what?? From a badge?? The car is bigger and more powerful than the A4, loaded with pretty much everything, excellent fit and finish inside and out (as far as I could see)...the only thing missing is the AWD...

g37guy01

What does hp have to do with it? Would you rather eat in a 5 star restuarant or a $20 all you can buffet?

From what I can gather from my ride in a new Kia, it's not as refined as Audi. 5 star vs all you can eat.

By the way all cars are "badges". I know you try to use the term to denote certain classes of vehicles, but if an Audi is a badge, then so is an Acura and Infiniti and Lexus, and Kia and Hyundai....

VTEC Racer

Congrats to your neighbor.


Would your neighbor (or anyone here for that matter) have still picked the Optima if the Kia and Audi were the same price?

Hapa DC5

Could they be leased?

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

They're throw away, and a couple years into ownership, people figure it out. There's a reason you don't see many 10 year old Korean cars on the road.

Hapa DC5

I can assure you we'll see 10 year old Kias and Hyundais from this new crop of cars they have.

People use to say the same about the Japanese....

saturno_v

Totally inappropriate comparison...I care about quality of food (or anything else)....the new Hyundai-Kia seems to have quality in spade...I never owned one but from many sources I can tell you that the quality and refinement is definitely there....just browse any industry magazine...look at the technical refinement of the specs.

Again...you should maybe ride in the specific car I mentioned before pass judgement...I never did but from what I hear they are extremely nice..and the sales success seems to to confirm that.

Obviously.....I was trying to understand, in your statement, what my neighbour "downsided" from what...

Couple of anecdotical examples which I know personally....a couple which I'm friend to, bought two new "throw away" Korean cars, a Kia Spectra and a Hyundai Accent in 2004 as inexpensive transportation to and from work and leave their big iron in the garage.
Especially the Spectra now has about 120K miles, is driven pretty hard, not really cared for.....it got in 2 or 3 accidents also other than countless scratches, curb hits and scuffs.

No problems at all other than your usual oil change, scheduled maintenance and front brake once...the little bugger just refuses to die and it has no rattles.....pretty much same thing for the Accent (although at lower mileage).

I haven't heard of many Audis that can claim that (including the couple I owned in the past)......my sister in law A4 after less than two years did need a new engine head (under warranty).

If these are "throw away" cars sign me up any time.....

saturno_v

You have to ask him.....from what he said, he did just like the style of the Optima better.....the car is a stunner, especially with the premium wheels....

saturno_v

g37guy01


Couple of snippets for you....as I said, not that I really care about what industry magazines say but.....just FYI...

These are some C&D comments on the old Kia Spectra....a $13K 2004 car so ages before the current crop and 2 segments below the Optima.

"All of these niceties complement an interior that offers 97 cubic feet of passenger space-more than any of its competitors, and even outdoing some upscale Euros, such as the Volvo S60 and the Audi A4."

"Speaking of the A4, the Spectra appears to have knocked off the Audi's hind end, wearing similar wedgelike taillights and a sloping trunklid. You could also argue that the Spectra knocked off the Audi's quality standards; the new car's panel gaps are minute. Its doors close with a comforting thud, and its interior fit and finish is premium. This is not your cousin's friend's Kia.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review

Kia Spectra5 road test

"Highs:
Price, refinement, utility, sporty personality."

"Lows: Not much brand image, unknown resale performance"

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...tra5-road-test

Yumcha

Well, I've driven an Optima on a couple of occasions now (rental) and honestly, I love it. Good car.

Still, from A4 to Optima...interesting. Goes to show a person is not blinded by the badge and is looking at the cars truly objectively.

saturno_v

An interesting video....it is advertisement but still is quite surprising...

BEAR-AvHistory

[QUOTE=saturno_v;13534580]An interesting video....it is advertisement but still is quite surprising...

Not all that surprising...A few posts back I said I could buy the SX if the spirit moved me.

Gotta laugh at the guys beating on the Kia with the same old stories that were used against Honda back when. The new Kia cars from the Audi designer are first class.

Guess its easy for them to pretend they forgot where the Acura came from.

oo7spy

Just to play devil's advocate, is it possible that the neighbor is truly concerned about his image and doesn't have the means to afford an Audi any more? As a result, he tells others, and himself most importantly, that the Kia is equal or better in many ways. A kind of, "Who are you trying to convince, me or you?"

saturno_v

As far as I know, not at all.....
It could be that he does not give a damn about "image"......assuming an Audi A4 would give you any sort of "image"....which obviously it doesn't....

saturno_v

....They are very good mechanically too not only in exterior design....that video underscore the very good dynamic traits of the car, regardless of how it does look...

g37guy01

As I said, I've been in a new Audi and Kia (not the Optima) and was kind of underwhelmed by the Kia. The rags can say anything they want. Maybe the Optima is better, but in my opinion the A4 is a better designed automobile (the A4 is better than a lot of other cars also). You may not choose to buy one for a lot of reasons however, and can harp on the reliability or lack thereof that doesn't seem to be fending drivers off in that segment.

I remember the rags saying the Hyundia SUV beat Lexus at it's own game when it came out. Not.

You can argue value all you want, some people don't shop on value, some people do.

saturno_v

Now we can agree...that is your opinion....I tend to look at the way the cars are built. their mechanical design and features...I do not stop at touching the dashboard or be dazzled by shiny pieces of trims...or the latest gadget.

If you never been in an Optima but on another Kia, by definition you been in a lower segment car (unless you are talking about the Sorento SUV) because the Optima is their flagship at the moment (and their newest model in the lineup)....so any comparison you draw between whatever Kia you rode in and an A4 is not exactly balanced...

Absolutely true. I tend to shop on objective (as much as possible) value and overall look and feel.

g37guy01

We finally agree, this entire thread is one big opinion. I'm not going to change your mind, you're not going to change mine. If you think an Optima, Genesis, Sonata or whatever beats the Japanese, American, German counterparts buy all means buy the car. I'm not out to convince you any car is better for your needs.

There is a level of refinement generally present in the German sedans, that intangible.

If everybody in the world bought on value, Bently, Rolls, Ferrari, Lexus, BMW, Acura and probably Honda and Toyota wouldn't sell one car. We'd all be driving old Pintos, Pacers, etc.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Almost gave you a "Thanks" for that post until you lumped Honda/Acura and Toyota with Bentley, Rolls, and Ferrari...

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

cp3117

Same here.

last year at the Auto Show in my area I thought the Optima was one of the best Value's introduced at the show.

Im not sure why the OP is so surprised by this. The A4 is a Entry level luxury vehicle and the Optima is a high end premium model from a mainstream brand. Why wouldnt someone consider the two, especially if they are looking for a cheaper payment etc while still getting a nice performing vehicle with nice styling a lots of luxury features. You see a lot of this now days where people compare High end models of mainstream brands to entry level luxury vehicles. This is the bread and butter concept behind the majority of Acura's lineup and management has said this from day one and even confirmed this again when they recently dropped their desire to strive towards Tier 1.

I was a little surprised to even see a thread like this in Car Talk but once i noticed where it was moved from and who the author was it started to make a lot more sense.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Bingo...

saturno_v

The usual comment from mr. "Never Gets It"...you never fail to fail to understand....like a clockwork....this thread, as you stated correctly, was started in the 4th Gen section as a continuation of a very long discussion we had about brand shopping...where some people did argue that nobody would go from a premium to a mainstream brand for any reason other than economic reasons.....which is not the case in real life so I brought up a lot of examples.

So you totally missed the "prequel" to this thread but still you did feel compelled to post your nonsense criticism when you did not know at all what there was behind....typical you whoever you are...

g37guy01

Some "people" did not say nobody....A Lexus 460 will not lose to a Honda Accord except in some very strange circumstances. Some "people" actually agreed that economic reasons are a very strong reason to downsize.

oo7spy

What are the chances this gets put back into 4G?

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

^ I'd support that.

pttl