Another "impossible" (for some) brand cross shopping today
02-04-2012, 08:21 PM
#41
Senior Moderator
^You're fine. No one knows who g37guy is, and now no one will ever care b/c of this thread.
BUT, to stay on topic, my wife is in the market for a car. I saw how sharp the Optima looked and went online to find some used ones since we are for sure buying used. What really surprised me was there are A LOT of 2009+ Optimas for sale with less than 30k miles on them. I mean A LOT. You couldn't find one fifth as many CRVs with the same mileage. That screams to me that people are impressed with the first impressions of the car. It looks nice, feels nice, etc., but 20k miles down the road feelings seem to change. I am interested to know how long your neighbor keeps it and what he moves onto next. THAT will be the most telling factor.
Needless to say, we won't be buying an Optima. Kia is pretty much a non-choice all around.
BUT, to stay on topic, my wife is in the market for a car. I saw how sharp the Optima looked and went online to find some used ones since we are for sure buying used. What really surprised me was there are A LOT of 2009+ Optimas for sale with less than 30k miles on them. I mean A LOT. You couldn't find one fifth as many CRVs with the same mileage. That screams to me that people are impressed with the first impressions of the car. It looks nice, feels nice, etc., but 20k miles down the road feelings seem to change. I am interested to know how long your neighbor keeps it and what he moves onto next. THAT will be the most telling factor.
Needless to say, we won't be buying an Optima. Kia is pretty much a non-choice all around.
Last edited by oo7spy; 02-04-2012 at 08:23 PM.
02-04-2012, 10:09 PM
#42
My first Avatar....
2011 was the significant re-design for the Optima NOT 2009 or 2010.
02-04-2012, 10:18 PM
#43
....
02-04-2012, 11:33 PM
#45
My first Avatar....
ooofff
02-05-2012, 08:30 AM
#46
Burning Brakes
I live in a fairly affluent area too and still I see a lot of Hyundais and other normal cars in my city....with the usual German heavy machinery....which obviously are more prevalent in gated communities, etc....
Granted you live in an city that was almost entirely bailed out by the government and the Federal Reserve (not many AMG and M would be left without Uncle Ben cranking up the printing presses) with enormous income disparity between "normal people" and the elected parasite financial class.....I understand that when someone makes millions per year without really working they would not look at anything not German and perceived as the absolute best...and, notoriously they have a tendency to flaunt, money is literally not a problem, someone prints it for them.....
In this city at least we still produce things, we have industries....
Granted you live in an city that was almost entirely bailed out by the government and the Federal Reserve (not many AMG and M would be left without Uncle Ben cranking up the printing presses) with enormous income disparity between "normal people" and the elected parasite financial class.....I understand that when someone makes millions per year without really working they would not look at anything not German and perceived as the absolute best...and, notoriously they have a tendency to flaunt, money is literally not a problem, someone prints it for them.....
In this city at least we still produce things, we have industries....
02-05-2012, 08:41 AM
#47
Burning Brakes
^You're fine. No one knows who g37guy is, and now no one will ever care b/c of this thread.
BUT, to stay on topic, my wife is in the market for a car. I saw how sharp the Optima looked and went online to find some used ones since we are for sure buying used. What really surprised me was there are A LOT of 2009+ Optimas for sale with less than 30k miles on them. I mean A LOT. You couldn't find one fifth as many CRVs with the same mileage. That screams to me that people are impressed with the first impressions of the car. It looks nice, feels nice, etc., but 20k miles down the road feelings seem to change. I am interested to know how long your neighbor keeps it and what he moves onto next. THAT will be the most telling factor.
Needless to say, we won't be buying an Optima. Kia is pretty much a non-choice all around.
BUT, to stay on topic, my wife is in the market for a car. I saw how sharp the Optima looked and went online to find some used ones since we are for sure buying used. What really surprised me was there are A LOT of 2009+ Optimas for sale with less than 30k miles on them. I mean A LOT. You couldn't find one fifth as many CRVs with the same mileage. That screams to me that people are impressed with the first impressions of the car. It looks nice, feels nice, etc., but 20k miles down the road feelings seem to change. I am interested to know how long your neighbor keeps it and what he moves onto next. THAT will be the most telling factor.
Needless to say, we won't be buying an Optima. Kia is pretty much a non-choice all around.
02-05-2012, 09:12 AM
#48
Cross shopping these days is a funny thing. The gap between the traditional "solid-reliable" brands like Honda/Toyota and the historically junk brands is diverging towards equilibrium in price, quality, and features. I'm pretty set in my ways when it comes to cars, I've only owned Hondas, Mazdas, and Nissans. Several of each, and my next vehicle purchase will probably follow this trend, but maybe in Infiniti/Acura form.
Personally, although I can appreciate cars like the new Optima, I tend to keep my cars long-ish and want long term reliability, resale, and appeal.
I'm also a member of a few subaru forums and there's alot of new WRX owners (older than you'd think) moving down from BMW/Audi. Even a few blocks away from my house a family returned their two BMW leased vehicles and replaced with Subarus. (Legacy GT, and Forester XT....both in white.)
Personally, although I can appreciate cars like the new Optima, I tend to keep my cars long-ish and want long term reliability, resale, and appeal.
I'm also a member of a few subaru forums and there's alot of new WRX owners (older than you'd think) moving down from BMW/Audi. Even a few blocks away from my house a family returned their two BMW leased vehicles and replaced with Subarus. (Legacy GT, and Forester XT....both in white.)
Last edited by pearldrummer; 02-05-2012 at 09:16 AM.
02-05-2012, 09:47 AM
#49
Burning Brakes
^^^That's what I did also. I did not pretend I was cross-shopping a 3/5 series with a Forester and the Forester won. I downsized to a more basic transportation device.
Cross-shopping implies means and commitment vs "looked at".
You going to say you "cross-shopped" a $50K car with a $30K car and you bought the $30K car. Okay why?
Cross-shopping implies means and commitment vs "looked at".
You going to say you "cross-shopped" a $50K car with a $30K car and you bought the $30K car. Okay why?
Last edited by g37guy01; 02-05-2012 at 09:49 AM.
02-05-2012, 10:13 AM
#50
Punk Rocker
Is this another refugee from the TL section? 
The Optima is a great car and Hyundai/Kia's reliability is as good as anybody else's these days...
The Optima is a great car and Hyundai/Kia's reliability is as good as anybody else's these days...
02-05-2012, 10:26 AM
#51
My first Avatar....
regarding reliability...
02-05-2012, 10:57 AM
#53
My first Avatar....
^
Perfect!
Perfect!
02-05-2012, 12:16 PM
#55
אני עומד עם ישראל
How many of us in Car Talk own a Honda product anymore?
Anyway, I would have no issues driving a Kia. Your neighbor made a wise choice.
Anyway, I would have no issues driving a Kia. Your neighbor made a wise choice.
02-05-2012, 12:17 PM
#56
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Management apparently did not agree with the comments here about not seeing other 4G as being cool & having a unique car. They thought about it as bad for business.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-05-2012 at 12:21 PM.
02-05-2012, 12:34 PM
#57
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Fixxored. 
I disagree. To me, "means and commitment" = bought and signed on dotted line.
Cross-shopping is defined as "means + seriously considered." I cross-shopped the A4, 335i, G37 and Jaguar XF. I also looked at the CTS, Cayman and CLK350, but did not cross-shop or even test drive them.
I prefer to think of them as "4G TL escapees."
< Escapee from 3G TL. 
I disagree. To me, "means and commitment" = bought and signed on dotted line.
Cross-shopping is defined as "means + seriously considered." I cross-shopped the A4, 335i, G37 and Jaguar XF. I also looked at the CTS, Cayman and CLK350, but did not cross-shop or even test drive them.
I prefer to think of them as "4G TL escapees."
< Escapee from 3G TL.
02-05-2012, 12:40 PM
#58
You going to say you "cross-shopped" a $50K car with a $30K car and you bought the $30K car. Okay why?
Like it or not wall street provides the financial fuel for the country.
But this is a serious OT....
02-05-2012, 12:46 PM
#59
My first Avatar....
Me too.
02-05-2012, 12:51 PM
#60
Burning Brakes
Because, as we discussed before, appeal does not necessarily follow sticker price, a concept I do nto think is hard to grasp...
They do not provide anything other than their own speculation fueled by the cheap alcohol provided by the Fed...I think the term parasite is much more appropriate these days...
But this is a serious OT....
They do not provide anything other than their own speculation fueled by the cheap alcohol provided by the Fed...I think the term parasite is much more appropriate these days...
But this is a serious OT....
02-05-2012, 12:58 PM
#61
Burning Brakes
Fixxored.
I disagree. To me, "means and commitment" = bought and signed on dotted line.
Cross-shopping is defined as "means + seriously considered." I cross-shopped the A4, 335i, G37 and Jaguar XF. I also looked at the CTS, Cayman and CLK350, but did not cross-shop or even test drive them.
I prefer to think of them as "4G TL escapees."
< Escapee from 3G TL.
I disagree. To me, "means and commitment" = bought and signed on dotted line.
Cross-shopping is defined as "means + seriously considered." I cross-shopped the A4, 335i, G37 and Jaguar XF. I also looked at the CTS, Cayman and CLK350, but did not cross-shop or even test drive them.
I prefer to think of them as "4G TL escapees."
< Escapee from 3G TL. I could cross-shop the M3 and G, according to my own definition. The M3 would "lose" because it doesn't have AWD.
02-05-2012, 12:59 PM
#62
It did in your own definition....he would have bought it (ready and able to commit) if he did like it......period.
02-05-2012, 01:25 PM
#63
Hey, How is it trolling to agree with Honda/Acura senior management about current design issues on an Acura site? Management apparently did not agree with the comments here about not seeing other 4G as being cool & having a unique car. They thought about it as bad for business.
Management apparently did not agree with the comments here about not seeing other 4G as being cool & having a unique car. They thought about it as bad for business.As far as 3G > 4G yea, I guess until you can afford the later. I owned a 04 base 6spd TL and the only thing I miss is the MT occasionally.
02-05-2012, 01:44 PM
#64
I drive a Subata.
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Beaks gonna beak
02-05-2012, 01:46 PM
#65
My first Avatar....
^
^
Here we go again!
^
Here we go again!
02-05-2012, 01:54 PM
#67
Even a few blocks away from my house a family returned their two BMW leased vehicles and replaced with Subarus. (Legacy GT, and Forester XT....both in white.)<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
02-05-2012, 02:00 PM
#68
I drive a Subata.
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02-05-2012, 02:05 PM
#69
My first Avatar....
Management agreed it wasn't well received not that it wasn't a beautiful design. I just think its funny that someone with your car history (expedition/x3), not exactly who you'd call a connoisseur of great taste constant bashs Honda/Acura/4G TL. Only difference between x3/TL marketing approach was BMW stuck to their guns and Acura folded; and now what many perceived as an ugly design and plus useless vehicle (mpg, cargo capacity, driving feel) is an acceptable one.
As far as 3G > 4G yea, I guess until you can afford the later. I owned a 04 base 6spd TL and the only thing I miss is the MT occasionally.
As far as 3G > 4G yea, I guess until you can afford the later. I owned a 04 base 6spd TL and the only thing I miss is the MT occasionally.
02-05-2012, 02:11 PM
#71
My first Avatar....
02-05-2012, 02:16 PM
#72
I drive a Subata.
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02-05-2012, 02:21 PM
#73
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
And let me make this clearer for you.
I always admit that my car should not look very pretty to everyone's eyes. It has a controversial looking front end.
With that being said, grow the fuck up and develop a thick skin.
Who cares if someone criticizes your car's styling?
I always admit that my car should not look very pretty to everyone's eyes. It has a controversial looking front end.
With that being said, grow the fuck up and develop a thick skin.
Who cares if someone criticizes your car's styling?
02-05-2012, 02:34 PM
#74
And let me make this clearer for you.
I always admit that my car is unpleasant to everyone's eyes. It has an ugly looking front/rear end.
With that being said, grow the fuck up and pretend to have thick skin, like I do.
Who cares if someone criticizes your car's styling?
I always admit that my car is unpleasant to everyone's eyes. It has an ugly looking front/rear end.
With that being said, grow the fuck up and pretend to have thick skin, like I do.
Who cares if someone criticizes your car's styling?
Ha, I guess you were just trolling
02-05-2012, 02:37 PM
#75
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Compared to paying $0 per month for X years on the 3G TL, all of the cars I cross-shopped were too expensive for the minimal benefits (like cooled seats and rear camera on the XF, faster acceleration with the 335 and G37, nice manual trans on the A4) over the TL. I'm keeping the TL until something that's more than incrementally nicer in a few ways comes up.
Maybe a 2G Genesis?
Last edited by Will Y.; 02-05-2012 at 02:41 PM.
02-05-2012, 02:38 PM
#76
I drive a Subata.
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02-05-2012, 03:08 PM
#77
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
02-05-2012, 03:15 PM
#78
אני עומד עם ישראל
HeartTLs weren't you the guy who said a cop was jealous of you because you drive a more expensive car than he does or do I have you confused with someone else?
02-05-2012, 04:28 PM
#79
Burning Brakes
02-05-2012, 09:36 PM
#80
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Management agreed it wasn't well received not that it wasn't a beautiful design. I just think its funny that someone with your car history (expedition/x3), not exactly who you'd call a connoisseur of great taste constant bashs Honda/Acura/4G TL. Only difference between x3/TL marketing approach was BMW stuck to their guns and Acura folded; and now what many perceived as an ugly design and plus useless vehicle (mpg, cargo capacity, driving feel) is an acceptable one.
Its just a matter of family harmony & requirements. Would I get an X3 for myself, nah - but my daughter liked the red X3 they had when we were at the BMW dealer so why not. The Expedition ain't pretty its a big high/low range 4X4 extended length box which holds a lot of stuff & has a good towing capacity. It has a Mustang GT V8 & easily cruises, fully loaded, at +15 of any speed limit in the state.
Great for dragging Jet Skis & roof racking Kayaks etc. down to the beach house in the summer. Its has a more good stuff then a lot of cars including heated - cooled seats, auto drivers seat push back, memory power throttle brake pedal adjustment, auto dimming outside mirrors, 2nd/3rd seat entertainment vid/game system to for the grandkids, rear camera & so forth.
As for your thoughts on Honda/Acura’s management comments about the 4G styling why do you think it was “not well received” if not for the styling? A 50% loss in sales 3G to 4G might make “not well received” seem like a gross understatement.
BTW Is it true you thought a cop stopped you because he was jealous of your Acura?