Ahh, the joy of RWD cars....
02-27-2011, 11:29 AM
#121
Banned
So AWD cars are useless....waste of money....right??
They are like extended warranties.... some people feel just safer. It is between the 2 ears. More of a detriment in 98% of the situations and for the rest, common sense will do.
AWD can be a commodity and I was faced with hills, I'd get it.
But for the rest, bof.... I owned Subaru and Audi Quattro, then I bought a first RWD Bimmer and a second RWD Bimmer. With appropriate tires and TC/ESP, they have no problem getting around.
Actually in some sort ESP succeeded where AWD failed. If AWD was just a fraction as good as some enthusiasts suggest, it would be standard on all cost-no-objects upscale cars....vast majority says otherwise.
02-27-2011, 02:54 PM
#122
Evil Mazda Driver
What about that picture of the Ford Fusion that wound up on its own front bumper during that east coast blizzard? Those are front wheel drive, eh? I think AWD is offered, too.
02-27-2011, 02:59 PM
#124
MechEng
iTrader: (9)
Maybe AWD is not needed all the time but it sure does come in handy when things go wrong.
About a month ago after the blizzard here in NY, I was driving on a small back road and was turning on to another small road. There was about an inch or two of slush/ice on the road. I slid into the snow back on the side of the road at about 15-20 mph. Both front wheels were not touching the ground and the front end of the frame was sitting on the snow bank. However my rear wheels were uselessly touching the pavement. If I had AWD I wouldnt have had to wait 45 min for someone to drive by and tow me out.
AWD can get you out of any situation where the drive wheels do not have traction but the others do have traction. So to say that AWD cars are useless is just ignorant.
About a month ago after the blizzard here in NY, I was driving on a small back road and was turning on to another small road. There was about an inch or two of slush/ice on the road. I slid into the snow back on the side of the road at about 15-20 mph. Both front wheels were not touching the ground and the front end of the frame was sitting on the snow bank. However my rear wheels were uselessly touching the pavement. If I had AWD I wouldnt have had to wait 45 min for someone to drive by and tow me out.
AWD can get you out of any situation where the drive wheels do not have traction but the others do have traction. So to say that AWD cars are useless is just ignorant.
02-27-2011, 03:53 PM
#125
Senior Moderator
Maybe AWD is not needed all the time but it sure does come in handy when things go wrong.
About a month ago after the blizzard here in NY, I was driving on a small back road and was turning on to another small road. There was about an inch or two of slush/ice on the road. I slid into the snow back on the side of the road at about 15-20 mph. Both front wheels were not touching the ground and the front end of the frame was sitting on the snow bank. However my rear wheels were uselessly touching the pavement. If I had AWD I wouldnt have had to wait 45 min for someone to drive by and tow me out.
AWD can get you out of any situation where the drive wheels do not have traction but the others do have traction. So to say that AWD cars are useless is just ignorant.
About a month ago after the blizzard here in NY, I was driving on a small back road and was turning on to another small road. There was about an inch or two of slush/ice on the road. I slid into the snow back on the side of the road at about 15-20 mph. Both front wheels were not touching the ground and the front end of the frame was sitting on the snow bank. However my rear wheels were uselessly touching the pavement. If I had AWD I wouldnt have had to wait 45 min for someone to drive by and tow me out.
AWD can get you out of any situation where the drive wheels do not have traction but the others do have traction. So to say that AWD cars are useless is just ignorant.
And odds are the rear wheels would not have pulled you out of the snow bank with the fronts in the position they were in.
02-27-2011, 04:03 PM
#126
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So explain to me how AWD would have saved you here? AWD isnt some magical you get better traction device, ESPECIALLY when you are driving beyond the tires limits like you were And odds are the rear wheels would not have pulled you out of the snow bank with the fronts in the position they were in.
And odds are the rear wheels would not have pulled you out of the snow bank with the fronts in the position they were in.He's saying in an AWD, his rear wheels would've had traction to pull him out. Not that he would've been "saved" from getting stuck in the first place.
02-27-2011, 04:27 PM
#127
MechEng
iTrader: (9)
^ Exactly. Thank you. In the position I was in, I guarantee you any AWD system could have gotten me out.
Maybe AWD wouldnt save you in every situation, but I repeat, to say AWD is useless is just ignorant.
Maybe AWD wouldnt save you in every situation, but I repeat, to say AWD is useless is just ignorant.
02-27-2011, 07:45 PM
#129
Senior Moderator
02-27-2011, 09:25 PM
#130
Senior Moderator
02-27-2011, 09:25 PM
#131
Senior Moderator
02-27-2011, 10:03 PM
#133
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02-28-2011, 04:41 AM
#136
If you take a look over at s2ki.com you would find many people there driving s2000 with snow tires as if it was nothing. Hell many of them drive top down while it is snowing, this is possible because everyone that is driving in the snow has dedicated snow tires.
This doesn't apply to just the snow but rain also, there are many people who spin out during the rain because they are running bald tires or cheap tires and driving beyond their abilities and the tire's limit.
So it doesn't matter weather it is fwd, awd, rwd, in rain, snow, dry weather it's the tires you use and the driver skills that will keep the tires on the road and your car pointed straight. imo
This doesn't apply to just the snow but rain also, there are many people who spin out during the rain because they are running bald tires or cheap tires and driving beyond their abilities and the tire's limit.
So it doesn't matter weather it is fwd, awd, rwd, in rain, snow, dry weather it's the tires you use and the driver skills that will keep the tires on the road and your car pointed straight. imo
02-28-2011, 10:59 AM
#139
Your Friendly Canadian
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Said it before, will say it again. AWD's main benefit, if not only benefit, is better acceleration compared to a FWD or RWD car, all other things equal. That's why it's called all wheel drive.
It won't help you turn quicker, or brake harder. That's primarily suspension and tire setup. It'll help you accelerate out of corners, in some situations where you might under- or oversteer in a FWD or RWD car.
It won't help you turn quicker, or brake harder. That's primarily suspension and tire setup. It'll help you accelerate out of corners, in some situations where you might under- or oversteer in a FWD or RWD car.
02-28-2011, 11:18 AM
#140
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Is this really still going on
02-28-2011, 11:38 AM
#141
Trolling Canuckistan
All AWD systems are not equal. In addition to that, If you drive poorly enough in the snow as to bash in to a snow bank lifting your front wheels off the ground you should be stuck there until the conditions get better. You getting back out and "trying again" is a safety hazard to the people who know how to drive in the snow.
Darwin hates AWD.
02-28-2011, 12:29 PM
#142
Senior Moderator
I can't wait for all cars to have 6 or 8 wheels...and then, we can all argue how 8-wheel drive is better than 4-wheel drive and RWD and FWD and NWD and OWD...................
02-28-2011, 12:29 PM
#143
Senior Moderator
You know what? I'm trading in for a Sherman tank...I'll have more effing traction than all yo @$$es.
There. I win the argument.
There. I win the argument.
02-28-2011, 01:18 PM
#144
Team Owner
with AWD i can drift in mid air, who needs road when you have AWD.
02-28-2011, 01:34 PM
#145
No doubt.
I just read through all 4 pages of this and cant believe it went on this long. As shown its pretty much common sense that driver ability and tires are the biggest factor here....maybe this isnt common knowledge though in other forums here.
You have to remember though that this was the same guy that started a thread in the 4G section a few months ago justifying his 4G purchase by comparing it to the Porsche Panamera and insinuating that the 4G is superior by handpicking some magazine stats.
I just read through all 4 pages of this and cant believe it went on this long. As shown its pretty much common sense that driver ability and tires are the biggest factor here....maybe this isnt common knowledge though in other forums here.
this entire thread is a one big trolling mission, based on your posting history, and your feeling about the over priced Greman cars...
02-28-2011, 01:38 PM
#146
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So maybe then a better topic would have been that "Its sad how many people live in norther climates and don't know how to drive in the snow". Cause in truth it really is a joke how many people can't properly drive in snow. Having grew up in central PA and then went to school in northern NY both places that get snow every year its crazy how many people still can't properly drive in the snow.
Or better yet I wonder how many of the people in those RWD cars that were off the side of the road even know that they have a RWD car or that for a RWD car to be good in snow that they should have winter tires on them. I am sure there are plenty of people out there who have bought a car cause it was a BMW and are completely unaware it is RWD even and if proper precautions are not taken they will end up in the side of a ditch.
I personally just got caught in the beginning of a snow storm in my IS-F when leaving PA and saw many cars on the side of the road and mean while I myself was driving a 400+hp car with summer performance tires and not even once did my traction control light come on. Yes I know this was stupid but really wasn't in the plans to have any snow when I made the trip up to PA. Yet I saw two FWD cars completely spun out facing on coming traffic and a tractor trailer in the ditch in the middle of the road. It can happen to anyone regardless of the drive train. Its a driver issue not a car issue.
Or better yet I wonder how many of the people in those RWD cars that were off the side of the road even know that they have a RWD car or that for a RWD car to be good in snow that they should have winter tires on them. I am sure there are plenty of people out there who have bought a car cause it was a BMW and are completely unaware it is RWD even and if proper precautions are not taken they will end up in the side of a ditch.
I personally just got caught in the beginning of a snow storm in my IS-F when leaving PA and saw many cars on the side of the road and mean while I myself was driving a 400+hp car with summer performance tires and not even once did my traction control light come on. Yes I know this was stupid but really wasn't in the plans to have any snow when I made the trip up to PA. Yet I saw two FWD cars completely spun out facing on coming traffic and a tractor trailer in the ditch in the middle of the road. It can happen to anyone regardless of the drive train. Its a driver issue not a car issue.
Not trying to pat myself on the back here but really this should have been the end of this thread.
02-28-2011, 01:40 PM
#147
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The force is strong with this one
02-28-2011, 02:11 PM
#149
My first Avatar....
No doubt.
I just read through all 4 pages of this and cant believe it went on this long. As shown its pretty much common sense that driver ability and tires are the biggest factor here....maybe this isnt common knowledge though in other forums here.
You have to remember though that this was the same guy that started a thread in the 4G section a few months ago justifying his 4G purchase by comparing it to the Porsche Panamera and insinuating that the 4G is superior by handpicking some magazine stats.
I just read through all 4 pages of this and cant believe it went on this long. As shown its pretty much common sense that driver ability and tires are the biggest factor here....maybe this isnt common knowledge though in other forums here.
You have to remember though that this was the same guy that started a thread in the 4G section a few months ago justifying his 4G purchase by comparing it to the Porsche Panamera and insinuating that the 4G is superior by handpicking some magazine stats.
after my original post. He will eventually check back into this thread then the 
will continue.
02-28-2011, 02:20 PM
#150
Senior Moderator
You guys are dummies if you think AWD isn't beneficial for someone who drives in the snow often, like me.
And not only does it help in taking off, it helps keep you on the road going around slick corners and it sure as hell helps you slow down. Downshifting is a much better alternative to touching the brakes when going down a slick hill at 50 mph, and if I do need to touch the brakes you better believe I'm going to drop a gear first.
P.S. I only read this page. This thread doesn't seem worthy of a read from the beginning.
And not only does it help in taking off, it helps keep you on the road going around slick corners and it sure as hell helps you slow down. Downshifting is a much better alternative to touching the brakes when going down a slick hill at 50 mph, and if I do need to touch the brakes you better believe I'm going to drop a gear first.
P.S. I only read this page. This thread doesn't seem worthy of a read from the beginning.
02-28-2011, 02:36 PM
#151
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How does it help going around slick corners?
02-28-2011, 02:42 PM
#153
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02-28-2011, 02:51 PM
#154
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You guys are dummies if you think AWD isn't beneficial for someone who drives in the snow often, like me.
And not only does it help in taking off, it helps keep you on the road going around slick corners and it sure as hell helps you slow down. Downshifting is a much better alternative to touching the brakes when going down a slick hill at 50 mph, and if I do need to touch the brakes you better believe I'm going to drop a gear first.
P.S. I only read this page. This thread doesn't seem worthy of a read from the beginning.
And not only does it help in taking off, it helps keep you on the road going around slick corners and it sure as hell helps you slow down. Downshifting is a much better alternative to touching the brakes when going down a slick hill at 50 mph, and if I do need to touch the brakes you better believe I'm going to drop a gear first.
P.S. I only read this page. This thread doesn't seem worthy of a read from the beginning.
02-28-2011, 02:55 PM
#155
Senior Moderator
And then came the "with proper tires my BMW is just as good as AWD" crew. I get it.
02-28-2011, 03:19 PM
#156
Senior Moderator
matt, you not allowed to post in this thread. You smart enough to put snow tires on your AWD system which will dominate all.
We talking about those who think AWD makes them unstoppable with the stock all seasons tires. You know the type.
Ex-quattro owner for over 3 years on all seasons tires.
We talking about those who think AWD makes them unstoppable with the stock all seasons tires. You know the type.
Ex-quattro owner for over 3 years on all seasons tires.
Last edited by Crazy Bimmer; 02-28-2011 at 03:22 PM.
02-28-2011, 03:28 PM
#157
Senior Moderator
Understood and agreed, buddy. 
02-28-2011, 05:32 PM
#158
Team Owner
02-28-2011, 09:05 PM
#159
MechEng
iTrader: (9)
All AWD systems are not equal. In addition to that, If you drive poorly enough in the snow as to bash in to a snow bank lifting your front wheels off the ground you should be stuck there until the conditions get better. You getting back out and "trying again" is a safety hazard to the people who know how to drive in the snow.
Darwin hates AWD.
Also, I should clarify that the front wheels were not airborne. They were just spinning in the snow. BUT the front end was sitting on the snow bank. The front wheels were about 3-4 inches from the grass/asphalt below. But the snow was hard packed so the car didnt drop down. Another thing to note is that I am lowered 2.5 inches in the front so that didnt help. The road conditions were extremely slick and I was doing maybe 5-10 mph when I actually hopped onto the snow bank. I didnt launch myself at 30 mph off the road.
A guy in a LX470 came by and luckily had rope with him. He said he didnt even press the gas to get me out. He idled in reverse, while i did the same, and that was enough force. I was just barely stuck. Which is why I said AWD would have helped me in MY specific situation.
So to those calling me a bad driver, honestly just stop. Accidents happen. Stop effing judging me.
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