saturno_v

Prepackaged answer for someone short of arguments.....it's a classic....

fsttyms1

And i have to disagree to your disagree. While i wont understate the fact that driver ability is high, it doesnt matter if you are MS or Lewis Hamilton, If the tires are wrong for the environment its just a bad combination. It doesnt matter if you are doing 5 mph, that really isnt driver skill, but if the tires cant handle the stuff they are on no amount of driver skill is going to do any thing about it. (like summer tires on snow/ice vs snow tires on snow/ice) I have seen accidents at idle speeds, not because driver skill/judgment would have helped, tires on the other hand would have (now there should be some blame had the driver made the right judgment they would have put the correct tires on the car)

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

meh... changed my mind. Just keep it civil and we'll be good to go. If not we'll just issue some vacation time to the offenders...

saturno_v

I beg to disagree, the thread should have been locked, very fews add anything other than nonsense...heck the entire section should be locked....

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Don't care if you agree or not. There are other members having discussions... no reason to lock them out of the topic.

And if you don't like the Off-Topic section, feel free to take charliemike's suggestion and go back where you came from

charliemike

Despite the fact that you fit the classical definition of a troll, I'll play along.

1. I wasn't talking to you in the first place.
2. You're just pissed at me that I had the temerity to state that your taste in automobiles is terrible
3. Kiss my ass
4. I don't love RWD. I prefer AWD
6. I had an Audi, got a second dog and sold it and got a Jetta Sportwagen
7. I got a Jetta because I saw no sense in getting another Audi only to have my dog ruin it
7. Repeat #3
7. I'm 39 years old. I started driving in 1987. If you are old enough to have been driving RWD cars when I was "playing with myself" or whatever it was you thought was clever at the time then you're even more pathetic than I thought
8. As I mentioned before, I've been on this board for ten years. In that time I have seen Acura completely come off the rails. I used to aspire to own a CL Type-S (back when I was 27). Now I have no interest at all in owning any Acura they currently make
9. If you identify that strongly with your car to the point that anyone that doesn't like it makes you feel like they're personally attacking you, you probably need to see a psychologist
10. Repeat #3

charliemike

And if you ARE that old then, well gosh, you just proved our point.

The only people buying Acuras these days are humorless old farts.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

^ easy now... See my post 3 above yours....

Last warning in this topic. Anything after this and vacations will be handed out...

CCColtsicehockey

saturno_v

Trying to reply to you...politely and intelligently...

You did talk directly to me, more than once, read your posts...you intervened in this specific thread about AWD to bash Acura out of the blue....glad you got a mission in life....did you read the thread subject??

I don't know who you are and I do not care......this thread was, again, about AWD cars and you intervened with a totally off topic post....furthermore you have brass balls to criticize my automotive taste driving a Jetta...I'll give you that....

The best you can do?? I'm not going to reply to that.

Your car purchasing logic and choices is your business...they sell Audi Avants by the way...

I'm genuinely surprised...I'm only few years older...but from the level of your posts I thought you were MUCH younger....

This post was about advantage of AWD cars in bad weather not about your profound dissfatisfaction with Acura products.... I originally posted on the 4th gen TL because I drive that car, the forum administrators did move it (I wish they didn't...) ...open a specific thread about it don't hijack others.

Again, for the fourth time, this post was about AWD cars and how they drive in the snow.....if you feel the need to tell to anybody driving an Acura at the first occasion what a POS it is you are the one needing a shrink

CCColtsicehockey

Hey someone had to say it

CCColtsicehockey

You seem to mention it was only about AWD cars a lot.

However in your first post which I copied below you didn't even mention what your car was so how was anyone to assume at that point it was about AWD. All it appears you are doing is that you have a true hatred for RWD cars and seem to believe people that buy them in the north are just plain stupid for some unknown reason.

I also find it funny that just cause charliemike drives a Jetta you think he shouldn't be able to have an opinion on what car you drive if he wants. What gives you the right to say when and when not someone can give there opinion.

So end point you are meerly a troll feeling the need to poke fun at anyone who drives a RWD car. I bet there were plenty other cars spun out as well and you just failed to realize it cause you wanted to be able to have something to rant about.

ThermonMermon

yes, 60-90 yr round with weekly showers.

CocheseUGA

I cannot possibly tell you how much I love this post.

saturno_v

I started my thread in the 4th gen TL section of the forum where the "aficionados" know that I drive an AWD TL (if you read it I talk about my "black betty") so I did not need to specify my car...then the thread got moved here....

I have no "hate" for RWD car I even own one!!! My first car was RWD!! I owned BMWs, I drove my dad's Benz, I drive my friend's RWD cars

I find them very enjoyable to drive, and I do not think that people buying or driving them are stupid.....some don't know how to drive them, but that is a different story.

The opinion was not requested nor car taste was the subject of the thread.

Again, I don't poke fun at them and yes there were other spin outs.......even of AWD cars....but I tend to see more RWD and pick up spin out at the first weather trouble than others....for whatever reason....my impression, feel free to disagree....AWD help in slippery condition and are easier to control (assuming proper tires) compared to RWD, something everybody knows...the very main reason AWD cars exists in the first place is that....

Flipster23

iTrader: (15)

oonowindoo

did he just say Lock this section?

You joined acurazine 4 months ago and you are telling us who have been here for almost 10 years to leave? fyi all of us had been in your CL/TL section, when it used to be informative and semi-unbiased.

when we were driving cars with J Serie engine 10 years ago.. you probably didn't even know what J32 CL-S/TL-S is, if you are as old as you claimed. and you know what it is still the same god damn engine you see in ur 2011 3.5 TL. Sounds the same, perform the same. The only significant change over the years is Acura is getting bigger and heavier which is something you might be able to relate to.

Legend2TL

We agree to disagree then.

To me driver judgment also means knowing when not to drive as well as limiting your speed.

Snow tires certainly increase tire friction coefficients under ice/snow conditions to the advantage of ~0.5 the braking distance comparing ice/snow to all-season tires.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=116

But judgment still plays a factor in how fast one goes on the snow tires. So to me a poorly skilled/reckless/careless driver on snow/ice tires is still worst than a responsible/skilled driver on all-seasons.

Kinda like those SUV/4WD drivers who speed in snow storms, I just shake my head and occasionally see their vehicles off the road.


Oh on the wrong tire selection, watch the opening laps on the 1993 European Grand Prix on YouTube when Senna was passing cars all over the pace besides being on the poorer intermediate rain tire compared to Prost and Hill being on full wets. Not a big Senna fan but he really was that good in the wet.

CCColtsicehockey

So maybe then a better topic would have been that "Its sad how many people live in norther climates and don't know how to drive in the snow". Cause in truth it really is a joke how many people can't properly drive in snow. Having grew up in central PA and then went to school in northern NY both places that get snow every year its crazy how many people still can't properly drive in the snow.

Or better yet I wonder how many of the people in those RWD cars that were off the side of the road even know that they have a RWD car or that for a RWD car to be good in snow that they should have winter tires on them. I am sure there are plenty of people out there who have bought a car cause it was a BMW and are completely unaware it is RWD even and if proper precautions are not taken they will end up in the side of a ditch.

I personally just got caught in the beginning of a snow storm in my IS-F when leaving PA and saw many cars on the side of the road and mean while I myself was driving a 400+hp car with summer performance tires and not even once did my traction control light come on. Yes I know this was stupid but really wasn't in the plans to have any snow when I made the trip up to PA. Yet I saw two FWD cars completely spun out facing on coming traffic and a tractor trailer in the ditch in the middle of the road. It can happen to anyone regardless of the drive train. Its a driver issue not a car issue.

saturno_v

Oh yes I did not know then....actually I did but I did not find anything appealing in the Acura lineup back then

All competitor are getting bigger and heavier if you bother looking at tech specs.....and thank you for your hint of offensive words without even knowing me....the bar is very high huh??

Yumcha

Well said...

charliemike

Understood.

Yumcha

Gotta say though, charlie...you were a bit cranky!

charliemike

I have a very low tolerance for people that waltz in somewhere new and then start trying to change everything because they're a certain type of person that I cannot describe in further detail without risking a vacation

CanopyFlyer

At the risk of flames, I'll add my two cents.

A finely crafted scalpel in the hands of a skilled surgeon can save lives. A spoon, in the hands of the same surgeon, would not do anything, because the surgeon would not attempt to perform complex operations with it. It would do more harm than good and the surgeon would know it.

A finely crafted scalpel in the hands of a bumbling quack, would kill countless people. The spoon, would do the same, it would just be a lot more painful (anyone get the reference?)

Like a scalpel, an automobile is a tool. In the hands of a master, it can do amazing things. However, the mark of a truly great driver is one that makes decisions that do not force him demonstrate that skill. (Points if you get that reference too.)

The absolute best automobile, in the snow, I have ever owned as a 1985 Corolla GT-S, with the 4A-GE engine. Rear wheel drive,with a very peaky engine. The tires were Pirelli P500's (I think it's been 20 years.) The engine was powerful, but not didn't have a lot of torque down low, who am I kidding, it didn't produce anything till nearly 7000 on the tach. So taking off was relatively easy. Being rear wheel drive, and me being an accomplished Pro Solo racer at the time, I could drift it in corners without thinking, if necessary. My skill, and the native behavior of the car came together in such a way that I could drive the thing through damn near anything. The most notable trip was a 1000 mile jaunt the day after a record snow, in March 1991, from Sioux Falls SD to KY, I was heading back to school from seeing my new baby niece. The only other car that has ever come that close is my wife's current car, which is a 2003 Camry LE 4-cylinder, obviously FWD. My TL? It earned the nickname "Slippin Sally" the first winter I owned it.

stangg172004

Winter tires...

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

this thread has some eat before you talk type of shit

nbennettksu

iTrader: (2)

^eat before you talk son

black label

I'm going to say that this happened in Seattle where it rains more than snows. If you were in New England or any other area that receives snow in good amounts every year you wouldn't have seen so many cars on the side of the road as people are better equipped to deal with the snow (FWD, RWD, or AWD) and have more experience driving in it.

Fibonacci

charliemike

No no no, I LOVE your car. I just don't like HIS.

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

My car with snow tires seems impossible to lose control of. I sometimes can get the back end loose taking a turn, but ass soon as the front wheels are headed straight, its quickly corrected. Snow tires make all the difference. I'm willing to bet that a RWD car with snow tires would fair better than a FWD car with all seasons.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

^ vids or ban. you must have SH-AWD to not lose control. itz da shitz

Brandon24pdx

When Snowpacalypse hits, teh AWD's can nevar lose with 22's (That's what's up!!!)

05TLdcc

This should be renamed, ahh, the joys of trolling

nbennettksu

iTrader: (2)

lol

pttl

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

So wait, the whole point of this post was to say rwd is awesome then bash it into the ground with "supposed" accidents seen on the road, then praise AWD and FWD in inclement weather.....


I don't get it...

Bearcat94

The oddest thing happened to me yesterday.

I was driving home from NE Ohio where they'd had several inches of snow overnight and high winds. Roads were slick.

I saw numerous vehicles that had slid off the road - at least 10 or 12.

2 pickups, 1 SUV, the remainder FWD. Not ONE SINGLE RWD car.

How the F'k is that even possible.

fsttyms1

I actually encountered the exact same thing today. Every car that was upside down or in the ditch was a FWD or a AWD (volvo, the one that was upside down), not one RWD.