Acura Tl -vs- Chrysler 300c
#42
All I can say is that the 300c is a strange beast.
It doesn't fit in the near luxuary market segment at all (TL, G35, 330i, ES-330, CTS, Audi A4, Jag x-type, Mercedes C class, Saab 95, Volvo S60, Maxima, etc.).
Also, I wouldn't compare it to a Grand Marquis either. The Grand Marquis is in the old, out-dated, need-to-be-retired category of cars.
There isn't much difference between a brand new 2004 Grand Marquis and my uncle's old 1977 Delta 88 that he drove decades ago.
Someone implied that the 300c belongs in the same category as the PT Cruiser. I would agree.
I am not sure about Chrysler.
300c, PT Cruiser, Crossfire, Magnum???? What gives? None of these are mainstream cars.
Thank god for pick-up trucks, mini vans, and SUVS. At least they got the Dodge Ram and Caravan right.
The hemi is really cool, but at this point, Chrysler is destined to become nothing more than a niche player in a very competitive, complex automotive marketplace.
It doesn't fit in the near luxuary market segment at all (TL, G35, 330i, ES-330, CTS, Audi A4, Jag x-type, Mercedes C class, Saab 95, Volvo S60, Maxima, etc.).
Also, I wouldn't compare it to a Grand Marquis either. The Grand Marquis is in the old, out-dated, need-to-be-retired category of cars.
There isn't much difference between a brand new 2004 Grand Marquis and my uncle's old 1977 Delta 88 that he drove decades ago.
Someone implied that the 300c belongs in the same category as the PT Cruiser. I would agree.
I am not sure about Chrysler.
300c, PT Cruiser, Crossfire, Magnum???? What gives? None of these are mainstream cars.
Thank god for pick-up trucks, mini vans, and SUVS. At least they got the Dodge Ram and Caravan right.
The hemi is really cool, but at this point, Chrysler is destined to become nothing more than a niche player in a very competitive, complex automotive marketplace.
#43
Senior Moderator
Oh, no, not ANOTHER TL vs. 300C comparo thread.....jeez.
That said, I'll plunge right in....
I'm going to go against the crowd. I love the way the 300C looks. The retro look is hot. The bigger-engined model is simply going to be totally SICK. I mean, it will be FAST. How can people simply react negatively to that? Chrysler, then DC, has come up with some pretty damned innovative models the last few years. It's really too bad their quality issues have dragged them down so much. I can tell you about both the good and the bad as a former Chrysler (actually, Dodge, but that's just semantics) owner.
I went from Honda to Chrysler and back to Honda/Acura mostly because of quality issues....
That said, I'll plunge right in....
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
BTW, the 420hp, 6.1 liter SRT-8 300C is coming soon...
I went from Honda to Chrysler and back to Honda/Acura mostly because of quality issues....
#44
2nd Gear
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Columbia, MD
Age: 57
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought I would chime in here. I think a comparison of the Acura TL and the 300C is a little unfair. They are not really targeted at the same market. Some comments:
Looks: Personally, I am not a big fan of the looks of the 300, but too each his own. I prefer the Magnum
Drivetrain: First rate. It will keep up with quite a few supposed performance cars. Not bad for a heavy car.
Handling: I think most people would be suprised, how well these heavy cars handle. Yes the lighter TL would out handle it in curves, but not by as much as yo would think.
Fit and Finish: By far the best Chrysler has had in years.
Just to be honest, I own a 2005 Dodge Magnum RT, even heavier than the 300C.
The Acura TL is a great car, just don't knock the 300C or the Magnum without driving one. YOu can knock the looks, that is all personal preference.
Looks: Personally, I am not a big fan of the looks of the 300, but too each his own. I prefer the Magnum
Drivetrain: First rate. It will keep up with quite a few supposed performance cars. Not bad for a heavy car.
Handling: I think most people would be suprised, how well these heavy cars handle. Yes the lighter TL would out handle it in curves, but not by as much as yo would think.
Fit and Finish: By far the best Chrysler has had in years.
Just to be honest, I own a 2005 Dodge Magnum RT, even heavier than the 300C.
The Acura TL is a great car, just don't knock the 300C or the Magnum without driving one. YOu can knock the looks, that is all personal preference.
#45
Powered by Guinness
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Stockton, CA
Age: 54
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Originally Posted by jjsC5
I spend WAY too much time on car forums, and have been on forums of many different cars. I have been on this forum for about six months (going back to when I had a G35). Even now that I have a TL, I have to say I'm almost embarassed by the blatant bias of this forum. I've never seen such a bunch of "if it isn't what I have it must be total crap" people in my life.
The quality of the 300C is unproven. Sure, some of you may have first hand knowledge of past Chrysler products. Does that mean Chrysler should just throw in the towel and go out of business because you think their cars are crap? I know serveral owners of Chrysler vechicles in the past few years who have been very happy with their quality.
Second - anybody who doesn't give Chrylser major credit for the 300C is just plain narrow minded. Here is a car that has 4 wheel independent supsension, the best engine available in any car at anywhere near its price, and offers features that are a great value. It has room for four comfortably, yet will run with many all out performance cars.
You don't have to like the looks of it - that's totally subjective, and you certainly have the right to like the TL better - that's okay. But to totally bash the car is really showing pure bias and at least a little ignorance.
The quality of the 300C is unproven. Sure, some of you may have first hand knowledge of past Chrysler products. Does that mean Chrysler should just throw in the towel and go out of business because you think their cars are crap? I know serveral owners of Chrysler vechicles in the past few years who have been very happy with their quality.
Second - anybody who doesn't give Chrylser major credit for the 300C is just plain narrow minded. Here is a car that has 4 wheel independent supsension, the best engine available in any car at anywhere near its price, and offers features that are a great value. It has room for four comfortably, yet will run with many all out performance cars.
You don't have to like the looks of it - that's totally subjective, and you certainly have the right to like the TL better - that's okay. But to totally bash the car is really showing pure bias and at least a little ignorance.
I do appreciate the edgy styling and powertrain in the 300c. It does not compare well to the TL or other cars in this class, not because it is inferior, but because they are disimilar in many regards. I agree with TLKEJ, what do you compare it to? Chrysler is ignoring and perhaps trying to shake up traditional vehicle segments. A lot of risk and I do give them credit for taking it. Jury is still out whether they can pull it off.
#46
Moderator Alumnus
#47
Powered by Guinness
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Stockton, CA
Age: 54
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Originally Posted by snickle
I thought I would chime in here. I think a comparison of the Acura TL and the 300C is a little unfair. They are not really targeted at the same market. Some comments:
Looks: Personally, I am not a big fan of the looks of the 300, but too each his own. I prefer the Magnum
Drivetrain: First rate. It will keep up with quite a few supposed performance cars. Not bad for a heavy car.
Handling: I think most people would be suprised, how well these heavy cars handle. Yes the lighter TL would out handle it in curves, but not by as much as yo would think.
Fit and Finish: By far the best Chrysler has had in years.
Just to be honest, I own a 2005 Dodge Magnum RT, even heavier than the 300C.
The Acura TL is a great car, just don't knock the 300C or the Magnum without driving one. YOu can knock the looks, that is all personal preference.
Looks: Personally, I am not a big fan of the looks of the 300, but too each his own. I prefer the Magnum
Drivetrain: First rate. It will keep up with quite a few supposed performance cars. Not bad for a heavy car.
Handling: I think most people would be suprised, how well these heavy cars handle. Yes the lighter TL would out handle it in curves, but not by as much as yo would think.
Fit and Finish: By far the best Chrysler has had in years.
Just to be honest, I own a 2005 Dodge Magnum RT, even heavier than the 300C.
The Acura TL is a great car, just don't knock the 300C or the Magnum without driving one. YOu can knock the looks, that is all personal preference.
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#48
Racer
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Age: 57
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have to agree that Chrysler's build quality seems to be improving. We own a 2004 Ram 3/4 ton pickup, and so far, so good. The Hemi is plenty powerful to move such a big lump of metal - almost as good as the old 8.0 V-10 in the 99 we had. New brakes and steering and nice and tight - feels very solid off-road too.
As for their less than conventional styling on the 300 and the Magnum - heck, at least it's different!!
Kudos to Chrysler for coming up with some good designs. FOr once, a car manufacturer isn't ripping off another's designs (Mazda taking from Honda/Acura; Pontiac taking from BMW - grill designs, in these cases, before I get flamed).
As for their less than conventional styling on the 300 and the Magnum - heck, at least it's different!!
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#50
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ
Age: 57
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by fathemi
Ah. . . fortunately, you'll never have to see the grill.
The only view of a 300C you'll get from a TL is the ass-end getting smaller and smaller as it pulls on you.![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Yeah, I'm just here starting some shi*. I figured someone had to.![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
-fathemi
The only view of a 300C you'll get from a TL is the ass-end getting smaller and smaller as it pulls on you.
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Yeah, I'm just here starting some shi*. I figured someone had to.
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
-fathemi
BTW I have a six speed.
#51
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Aegir
The burden is on Chrysler to demonstrate that they are capable of building a quality product that is reliable, holds its value, and has a reasonably good total cost of ownership. I'm not going to cut them any slack - they haven't earned it.
I do appreciate the edgy styling and powertrain in the 300c. It does not compare well to the TL or other cars in this class, not because it is inferior, but because they are disimilar in many regards. I agree with TLKEJ, what do you compare it to? Chrysler is ignoring and perhaps trying to shake up traditional vehicle segments. A lot of risk and I do give them credit for taking it. Jury is still out whether they can pull it off.
I do appreciate the edgy styling and powertrain in the 300c. It does not compare well to the TL or other cars in this class, not because it is inferior, but because they are disimilar in many regards. I agree with TLKEJ, what do you compare it to? Chrysler is ignoring and perhaps trying to shake up traditional vehicle segments. A lot of risk and I do give them credit for taking it. Jury is still out whether they can pull it off.
I dissagree with your comment about ignorng the "traditional vehicle segments". What segments do you think they are ignoring? I had a G35, and now have a TL. If the 300C was not so hard to buy, there is a good chance I would be driving one now. And I have owned seven Honda/Acuras, six Nissan/Infinitis, and seven Mazdas. I think I AM the segment you are refering to. Plus, like many auto enthusiasts, the V8 in a grown up sedan is like manna from heaven to me.
#52
Advanced
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Newport, Oregon
Age: 41
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Originally Posted by jjsC5
I spend WAY too much time on car forums, and have been on forums of many different cars. I have been on this forum for about six months (going back to when I had a G35). Even now that I have a TL, I have to say I'm almost embarassed by the blatant bias of this forum. I've never seen such a bunch of "if it isn't what I have it must be total crap" people in my life.
The quality of the 300C is unproven. Sure, some of you may have first hand knowledge of past Chrysler products. Does that mean Chrysler should just throw in the towel and go out of business because you think their cars are crap? I know serveral owners of Chrysler vechicles in the past few years who have been very happy with their quality.
Second - anybody who doesn't give Chrylser major credit for the 300C is just plain narrow minded. Here is a car that has 4 wheel independent supsension, the best engine available in any car at anywhere near its price, and offers features that are a great value. It has room for four comfortably, yet will run with many all out performance cars.
You don't have to like the looks of it - that's totally subjective, and you certainly have the right to like the TL better - that's okay. But to totally bash the car is really showing pure bias and at least a little ignorance.
The quality of the 300C is unproven. Sure, some of you may have first hand knowledge of past Chrysler products. Does that mean Chrysler should just throw in the towel and go out of business because you think their cars are crap? I know serveral owners of Chrysler vechicles in the past few years who have been very happy with their quality.
Second - anybody who doesn't give Chrylser major credit for the 300C is just plain narrow minded. Here is a car that has 4 wheel independent supsension, the best engine available in any car at anywhere near its price, and offers features that are a great value. It has room for four comfortably, yet will run with many all out performance cars.
You don't have to like the looks of it - that's totally subjective, and you certainly have the right to like the TL better - that's okay. But to totally bash the car is really showing pure bias and at least a little ignorance.
#53
Originally Posted by Nawww
You can't say it's the BEST engine in it's class, some of us (or maybe just me) still take pride in the fact that the TL is a ULEV-2 despite its 270hp V6. Nobody makes internal combustion engines like Honda. Everyone else just uses the engineering cop-out of making a bigger engine instead of a better one.
#54
Originally Posted by xlilbluux
gotta love the way japanese people work, 4 cyclinder STi has 300 hp. American companies would use a v8 to make that much power.
Everyone else just uses the engineering cop-out of making a bigger engine instead of a better one.
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#55
2nd Gear
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Redmond, WA
Age: 53
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 6spdzoomzoom
Statistically the cars are almost the same (according to C/D). In the real world I raced one he could keep up but, he was never able to pass and pull away!!!
BTW I have a six speed.
BTW I have a six speed.
![Scared](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/scared.gif)
#56
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by xlilbluux
gotta love the way japanese people work, 4 cyclinder STi has 300 hp. American companies would use a v8 to make that much power.
Obviously my comments are not aimed as a negative against the TL. I have one and love it. But it's engine is not the best. Smooth and refined - yes. But not torquey at all.
#57
Pro
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Somerset, NJ
Age: 56
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jjsC5
I spend WAY too much time on car forums, and have been on forums of many different cars. I have been on this forum for about six months (going back to when I had a G35). Even now that I have a TL, I have to say I'm almost embarassed by the blatant bias of this forum. I've never seen such a bunch of "if it isn't what I have it must be total crap" people in my life.
The quality of the 300C is unproven. Sure, some of you may have first hand knowledge of past Chrysler products. Does that mean Chrysler should just throw in the towel and go out of business because you think their cars are crap? I know serveral owners of Chrysler vechicles in the past few years who have been very happy with their quality.
Second - anybody who doesn't give Chrylser major credit for the 300C is just plain narrow minded. Here is a car that has 4 wheel independent supsension, the best engine available in any car at anywhere near its price, and offers features that are a great value. It has room for four comfortably, yet will run with many all out performance cars.
You don't have to like the looks of it - that's totally subjective, and you certainly have the right to like the TL better - that's okay. But to totally bash the car is really showing pure bias and at least a little ignorance.
The quality of the 300C is unproven. Sure, some of you may have first hand knowledge of past Chrysler products. Does that mean Chrysler should just throw in the towel and go out of business because you think their cars are crap? I know serveral owners of Chrysler vechicles in the past few years who have been very happy with their quality.
Second - anybody who doesn't give Chrylser major credit for the 300C is just plain narrow minded. Here is a car that has 4 wheel independent supsension, the best engine available in any car at anywhere near its price, and offers features that are a great value. It has room for four comfortably, yet will run with many all out performance cars.
You don't have to like the looks of it - that's totally subjective, and you certainly have the right to like the TL better - that's okay. But to totally bash the car is really showing pure bias and at least a little ignorance.
When CR and JD Powers start reporting positive feedback on 1-2 year old Chrysler cars, then I'll reexamine their cars as an alternative to Japanese and German alternatives.
However, I DO credit Chrysler for being innovative in their current product development. It's just too bad that only the Viper developed in my direction.
![Shake Head](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/shakehead.gif)
$.02
#58
Barnum was right...
The 300C/Magnum is simply proof that P.T. Barnum was right.
The cars are totally unexceptional, mechanically speaking. The bodies are heavy, simple and cheap, using sheer mass for strength. The Hemi is simplistic in design, being cheap to build and using raw displacement to achieve power - wasteful and relatively inefficient by todays standards. The GM LS1 V8 is the same displacement, has the same HP and torque output and is more fuel efficient without that "hemi" configuration.
In short, the LX is a throwback. Simple, cheap, easy and inefficient which creates a vehicle with a low initial cost but high long term operational expense. DCX just deftly shifted the costs from themselves to the customer.
The only thing the LX has going for it is a "look" that attracts some simply because it' s different. Once the newness wears off, the reality of the mediocrity of these cars will begin to sink in. Corners have been cut in a lot of areas and are being hidden in plain sight by visual slights of hand. Example: Take a hard look at the HVAC controls.
The LX is unsophisticated and uses a lot of unsophisticated, off the shelf, last generation MB technology. Contrary to the urban legends, the LX is only based off the last generation E-Class bits. It isn't an E-Class under the covers. The only parts the cars "share", so to speak, are the 5-Speed tranny (being built in Indiana, not Germany) the rear differential, the steering column, the front seat frames, and the electrical architecture. The cylinder cutoff system is MB's adapted to the Hemi. And there are unsubstantiated claims that much of the engineering was done in Stuttgart, not Auburn Hills - at a high cost to Chrysler Group.
DCX is selling smoke and mirrors and they'll play that game as long as they can get away with it. For as long as the public and the press are unwilling to admit the emperor isn't wearing any clothes.
The 300C is the absolute antithesis of the TL.
The cars are totally unexceptional, mechanically speaking. The bodies are heavy, simple and cheap, using sheer mass for strength. The Hemi is simplistic in design, being cheap to build and using raw displacement to achieve power - wasteful and relatively inefficient by todays standards. The GM LS1 V8 is the same displacement, has the same HP and torque output and is more fuel efficient without that "hemi" configuration.
In short, the LX is a throwback. Simple, cheap, easy and inefficient which creates a vehicle with a low initial cost but high long term operational expense. DCX just deftly shifted the costs from themselves to the customer.
The only thing the LX has going for it is a "look" that attracts some simply because it' s different. Once the newness wears off, the reality of the mediocrity of these cars will begin to sink in. Corners have been cut in a lot of areas and are being hidden in plain sight by visual slights of hand. Example: Take a hard look at the HVAC controls.
The LX is unsophisticated and uses a lot of unsophisticated, off the shelf, last generation MB technology. Contrary to the urban legends, the LX is only based off the last generation E-Class bits. It isn't an E-Class under the covers. The only parts the cars "share", so to speak, are the 5-Speed tranny (being built in Indiana, not Germany) the rear differential, the steering column, the front seat frames, and the electrical architecture. The cylinder cutoff system is MB's adapted to the Hemi. And there are unsubstantiated claims that much of the engineering was done in Stuttgart, not Auburn Hills - at a high cost to Chrysler Group.
DCX is selling smoke and mirrors and they'll play that game as long as they can get away with it. For as long as the public and the press are unwilling to admit the emperor isn't wearing any clothes.
The 300C is the absolute antithesis of the TL.
#59
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by kosh2258
The 300C/Magnum is simply proof that P.T. Barnum was right.
The cars are totally unexceptional, mechanically speaking. The bodies are heavy, simple and cheap, using sheer mass for strength. The Hemi is simplistic in design, being cheap to build and using raw displacement to achieve power - wasteful and relatively inefficient by todays standards. The GM LS1 V8 is the same displacement, has the same HP and torque output and is more fuel efficient without that "hemi" configuration.
In short, the LX is a throwback. Simple, cheap, easy and inefficient which creates a vehicle with a low initial cost but high long term operational expense. DCX just deftly shifted the costs from themselves to the customer.
The only thing the LX has going for it is a "look" that attracts some simply because it' s different. Once the newness wears off, the reality of the mediocrity of these cars will begin to sink in. Corners have been cut in a lot of areas and are being hidden in plain sight by visual slights of hand. Example: Take a hard look at the HVAC controls.
The LX is unsophisticated and uses a lot of unsophisticated, off the shelf, last generation MB technology. Contrary to the urban legends, the LX is only based off the last generation E-Class bits. It isn't an E-Class under the covers. The only parts the cars "share", so to speak, are the 5-Speed tranny (being built in Indiana, not Germany) the rear differential, the steering column, the front seat frames, and the electrical architecture. The cylinder cutoff system is MB's adapted to the Hemi. And there are unsubstantiated claims that much of the engineering was done in Stuttgart, not Auburn Hills - at a high cost to Chrysler Group.
DCX is selling smoke and mirrors and they'll play that game as long as they can get away with it. For as long as the public and the press are unwilling to admit the emperor isn't wearing any clothes.
The 300C is the absolute antithesis of the TL.
The cars are totally unexceptional, mechanically speaking. The bodies are heavy, simple and cheap, using sheer mass for strength. The Hemi is simplistic in design, being cheap to build and using raw displacement to achieve power - wasteful and relatively inefficient by todays standards. The GM LS1 V8 is the same displacement, has the same HP and torque output and is more fuel efficient without that "hemi" configuration.
In short, the LX is a throwback. Simple, cheap, easy and inefficient which creates a vehicle with a low initial cost but high long term operational expense. DCX just deftly shifted the costs from themselves to the customer.
The only thing the LX has going for it is a "look" that attracts some simply because it' s different. Once the newness wears off, the reality of the mediocrity of these cars will begin to sink in. Corners have been cut in a lot of areas and are being hidden in plain sight by visual slights of hand. Example: Take a hard look at the HVAC controls.
The LX is unsophisticated and uses a lot of unsophisticated, off the shelf, last generation MB technology. Contrary to the urban legends, the LX is only based off the last generation E-Class bits. It isn't an E-Class under the covers. The only parts the cars "share", so to speak, are the 5-Speed tranny (being built in Indiana, not Germany) the rear differential, the steering column, the front seat frames, and the electrical architecture. The cylinder cutoff system is MB's adapted to the Hemi. And there are unsubstantiated claims that much of the engineering was done in Stuttgart, not Auburn Hills - at a high cost to Chrysler Group.
DCX is selling smoke and mirrors and they'll play that game as long as they can get away with it. For as long as the public and the press are unwilling to admit the emperor isn't wearing any clothes.
The 300C is the absolute antithesis of the TL.
Next you say the hemi "has the same HP and torque output and is more fuel efficient without that "hemi" configuration". Do a little more homework. The "hemi" does not actually have true hemispherical heads. That is just marketing hype.
#60
Pro
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Somerset, NJ
Age: 56
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by kosh2258
The 300C/Magnum is simply proof that P.T. Barnum was right.
FYI: If you're referring to the quote, "There's a sucker born every minute then it was a criminal by the name of Joseph Bessimer who was quoted as saying this not, PT Barnum.
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#61
TL vs 300c? christ... that's like... elegance vs brute force... football vs soccer... dell vs sony.... microsoft vs apple.... bruce lee vs arnold.... each are "cool" to someone... in the end it's just personal preference.
I want s2k
I want s2k
#62
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Louisville
Posts: 1,506
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by VQ35DE
FYI: If you're referring to the quote, "There's a sucker born every minute then it was a criminal by the name of Joseph Bessimer who was quoted as saying this not, PT Barnum. ![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#63
Powered by Guinness
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Stockton, CA
Age: 54
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Originally Posted by gyrus
TL vs 300c? christ... that's like... elegance vs brute force... football vs soccer... dell vs sony.... microsoft vs apple.... bruce lee vs arnold.... each are "cool" to someone... in the end it's just personal preference.
I want s2k
I want s2k
#64
Powered by Guinness
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Stockton, CA
Age: 54
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Originally Posted by jjsC5
I dissagree with your comment about ignorng the "traditional vehicle segments". What segments do you think they are ignoring? I had a G35, and now have a TL. If the 300C was not so hard to buy, there is a good chance I would be driving one now. And I have owned seven Honda/Acuras, six Nissan/Infinitis, and seven Mazdas. I think I AM the segment you are refering to. Plus, like many auto enthusiasts, the V8 in a grown up sedan is like manna from heaven to me.
#65
Fantasy island...
You might want to check the gas mileage of that car with an automatic transmission. Then compare weight of both the GTO and 300C. I think you are in for a pretty big surprise.
C/D only managed an average of 15 MPG when they recently tested (September 2004) the 300C and couldn't reproduce the 5.3 sec (5.9 sec, same place, same conditions) 0-60 time they got with the prepped press cars they first tested. C/D got an observed 22 MPG out of the GTO when they tested it in December of 2003. No surprises for me.
![Ecstatic](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ecstatic.gif)
"you'll never go broke underestimating the American public"?
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#66
Life at 9000rpm
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Vancouver, CA
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by hacksaw
Two words that describes my TL test drive - rice grinder
Once you drive a 300c you will never enjoy a wimpy V6 high revving TL again.
Once you drive a 300c you will never enjoy a wimpy V6 high revving TL again.
Think of it like having sex, the high power low rpm V8 will always end prematurely
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
#67
Senior Moderator
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Better Neighborhood, Arizona
Posts: 45,641
Received 2,329 Likes
on
1,309 Posts
The 300C appeals to those who put outside appearances above substance, quality and practicality. In other words, the vain and shallow.
Its pillbox like structure with gunslit windows make me feel like Al Capone driving it, the dash is too high, the interior plastics cheap as hell and as if it will make it all better, a giant FAKE Hemi engine that does not even use hemispherical combustion chambers....
So yeah, what we have here is a poseur of a car, screaming with all its marketing hype to those who want to be flashy-looking with their bling bling but are really just driving a piece of crap with some chrome sprayed on.
This is all, of course, in my most humble opinion.
Its pillbox like structure with gunslit windows make me feel like Al Capone driving it, the dash is too high, the interior plastics cheap as hell and as if it will make it all better, a giant FAKE Hemi engine that does not even use hemispherical combustion chambers....
So yeah, what we have here is a poseur of a car, screaming with all its marketing hype to those who want to be flashy-looking with their bling bling but are really just driving a piece of crap with some chrome sprayed on.
This is all, of course, in my most humble opinion.
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#68
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by kosh2258
You mean the unrealistic EPA numbers or the real world actual mileage?
C/D only managed an average of 15 MPG when they recently tested (September 2004) the 300C and couldn't reproduce the 5.3 sec (5.9 sec, same place, same conditions) 0-60 time they got with the prepped press cars they first tested. C/D got an observed 22 MPG out of the GTO when they tested it in December of 2003. No surprises for me.
That would be it...![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
C/D only managed an average of 15 MPG when they recently tested (September 2004) the 300C and couldn't reproduce the 5.3 sec (5.9 sec, same place, same conditions) 0-60 time they got with the prepped press cars they first tested. C/D got an observed 22 MPG out of the GTO when they tested it in December of 2003. No surprises for me.
![Ecstatic](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ecstatic.gif)
That would be it...
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
And yes, I read the same road tests on the 300C. 5.9 0-60 is still in some pretty rare teritory for a full size four door sedan with an automatic transmission.
#69
Epa, Epa, Epa
Do your homework on EPA ratings for six speed versus automatic GTO's.
Ken1997TL;
Don't hold back, tell us what you really think!
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#71
Senior Moderator
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Better Neighborhood, Arizona
Posts: 45,641
Received 2,329 Likes
on
1,309 Posts
Originally Posted by AcuraVic
The 300C is not a new design, its the same car that bumped you off the road in the original 'Spy Hunter' game for Nintendo. ![Jesus LOL](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/jesuslol.gif)
![Jesus LOL](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/jesuslol.gif)
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
Man.. i'll have to take a screenshot of that game sometime and do a comparison.
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#72
CEO, Team Anthracite
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bear Territory
Posts: 2,899
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dkrudop
All I know is.......for some reason every time I see a 300c I expect to see guys in chalk stripe suits and fedoras with their tommy guns blazing out the windows.
YES! Dick Tracy era!
#73
Life at 9000rpm
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Vancouver, CA
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by AcuraVic
The 300C is not a new design, its the same car that bumped you off the road in the original 'Spy Hunter' game for Nintendo. ![Jesus LOL](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/jesuslol.gif)
![Jesus LOL](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/jesuslol.gif)
![Nod](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/nod.gif)
![Jesus LOL](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/jesuslol.gif)
#74
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by kosh2258
The EPA numbers are absolutely meaningless. What's achieved in the real world is. C/D got 15 MPG out of the 300C which has an EPA of 17/25. You have a disregard for reality. I have a disregard for the EPA numbers because they have no basis in reality.
Ken1997TL;
Don't hold back, tell us what you really think!![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Ken1997TL;
Don't hold back, tell us what you really think!
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Also - you point to C&D's test as if the two cars were driven in identical manners (which the EPA DOES do). Driving one car in only heavy stop and go driving with a few quick passes down the track will be a huge difference compared to driving one predominately on the freeway. C&D makes no claims to how they drive each test car. I have quite a bit of experience with the LS1 engine (two Corvettes) and I can attest to the difference in mileage based upon how they are driven.
While EPA numbers may or may not be totally realistic (which there are some good reasons for) they are done scientifically and the same for each car. Therefore, comparing one car to the other they do have meaning. The main reason they are not as accurate anymore is a well known factor - they have not changed their test methods since the highway speed limits have been increased the past few years.
#75
Banned
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Big Apple
Age: 62
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by brett
The first time I saw a 300C, this is what I thought of:
The Green Hornet's Black Beauty was based on a 1966 Chrysler Imperial. Coincidence?
The Green Hornet's Black Beauty was based on a 1966 Chrysler Imperial. Coincidence?
if the engine is gonna be big, then i expect to get 1.2 to 1.4 HP per cubic inch (doable on pump gas). the 300C falls short of those #'s.
#76
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Age: 40
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by gyrus
TL vs 300c? christ... that's like... elegance vs brute force... football vs soccer... dell vs sony.... microsoft vs apple.... bruce lee vs arnold.... each are "cool" to someone... in the end it's just personal preference.
I want s2k
I want s2k
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
#77
2nd Gear
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Columbia, MD
Age: 57
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 300C and Magnum RT give plenty of smooth acceleration or a kick in the ass. Drivers Choice :-)
The comment about them be unexceptional mechanically, may have some merit, but find any other cars in that weight range that perform anywhere near as well.
Brute force someties has its place. As an engineer, I need to knwo when a big hammer is the right tool.
I would love to see an honest one on one comparison between the two. Even though it is an unfair comparison, as they target different markets
The comment about them be unexceptional mechanically, may have some merit, but find any other cars in that weight range that perform anywhere near as well.
Brute force someties has its place. As an engineer, I need to knwo when a big hammer is the right tool.
I would love to see an honest one on one comparison between the two. Even though it is an unfair comparison, as they target different markets
#78
Innovative or running away from competition
Chrysler should have produced a more traditional (but modern) looking sedan with a hemi stuffed in it.
Ford hit the target dead-on with the new 2005 Mustang...Why screw around with a winning formula?
Could you imagine a more generic, more stylish, mid-size sedan with a hemi in it?
Chrysler could have crushed all the competition in the $25k to $35 market segment.
Instead, they got all gooofy and went over the edge...
Ford hit the target dead-on with the new 2005 Mustang...Why screw around with a winning formula?
Could you imagine a more generic, more stylish, mid-size sedan with a hemi in it?
Chrysler could have crushed all the competition in the $25k to $35 market segment.
Instead, they got all gooofy and went over the edge...
#79
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ
Age: 57
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by fathemi
BS. Must have been a 6 cylinder 300. You're giving up 150lbs/ft
of torque to a 300C and are only about 500lbs lighter. Even with drivetrain losses figured in, it's not even a close match. A nonmodified 300C will decimate a nonmodified TL in any practical contest of acceleration.
![Scared](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/scared.gif)
#80
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by TLKEJ
Chrysler should have produced a more traditional (but modern) looking sedan with a hemi stuffed in it.
Ford hit the target dead-on with the new 2005 Mustang...Why screw around with a winning formula?
Could you imagine a more generic, more stylish, mid-size sedan with a hemi in it?
Chrysler could have crushed all the competition in the $25k to $35 market segment.
Instead, they got all gooofy and went over the edge...
Ford hit the target dead-on with the new 2005 Mustang...Why screw around with a winning formula?
Could you imagine a more generic, more stylish, mid-size sedan with a hemi in it?
Chrysler could have crushed all the competition in the $25k to $35 market segment.
Instead, they got all gooofy and went over the edge...