Acura Tl -vs- Chrysler 300c
#81
Ummm....
Also - you point to C&D's test as if the two cars were driven in identical manners (which the EPA DOES do).
As for the GTO, scrounge up some actual observed mileage numbers on the automatic and I'll pay attention to you - maybe.
C/D drives most tests pretty much the same way - they flog the crap out of whatever they're testing. So I don't buy that argument.
By any measure, the 300C is anything but efficient.
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Originally Posted by AcuraVic
The 300C is not a new design, its the same car that bumped you off the road in the original 'Spy Hunter' game for Nintendo. ![Jesus LOL](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/jesuslol.gif)
![Jesus LOL](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/jesuslol.gif)
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#83
Alot of you have posted about issues of reliabilty of DC,I have owned 2(trucks)and they were/are the best I have ever owned.I also have an 04 TL,To tell you the Truth I would have never ever bought the car(TL) if I had read this board first..Talk about problems..Wow..Rattles,Interior issues,paint matching problems,Bad trannys..etc. Before some of you guys start posting about another brands reliabilty you might want to read up on your own first.The guys that have been slaming the 300's the most I bet have never even driven one.All I can say is at least DC is trying to put some good cars out their..unlike chevy and ford..
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#84
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the only thing i like is that it's a RWD car and the TL is a FWD...even the american car manufacturers are going for the RWD cars and the japanese keep on making FWD which IMO are usless as the HP increases in the car ( also including torque steer)
#85
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Originally Posted by Rkat
Alot of you have posted about issues of reliabilty of DC,I have owned 2(trucks)and they were/are the best I have ever owned.I also have an 04 TL,To tell you the Truth I would have never ever bought the car(TL) if I had read this board first..Talk about problems..Wow..Rattles,Interior issues,paint matching problems,Bad trannys..etc. Before some of you guys start posting about another brands reliabilty you might want to read up on your own first.The guys that have been slaming the 300's the most I bet have never even driven one.All I can say is at least DC is trying to put some good cars out their..unlike chevy and ford.. ![Jesus LOL](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/jesuslol.gif)
![Jesus LOL](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/jesuslol.gif)
FYI, I drove the new 300 for a week and it convinced me enough to placed an order for the 05 TL. They're trying but it's going to take a lot more to get their image back. The damages that they've done on themselves over the years will take just as long to repair it.
#86
Ak Ting Up
Just for the record, I like the look of the 300. I also liked the Dodge Omni GLH-S, and the Charger (the little one), and the Starion. All of those cars were great cars of their time but Chrysler discontinued them. It puzzles me that american car makers discontinue good models regularly. At least the Mustang is still around. (But not the Camaro ?!?)
How long will the 300 last ?
How long will the 300 last ?
#87
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Originally Posted by takkar
the only thing i like is that it's a RWD car and the TL is a FWD...even the american car manufacturers are going for the RWD cars and the japanese keep on making FWD which IMO are usless as the HP increases in the car ( also including torque steer)
![Confused](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
HP has little to do with Torque steer (TS).
Besides, only Honda/Acura seems to be hanging tough with the FWD setup at all costs.
Toyota and Nissan have pretty transitioned the majority of their upscale lineup to RWD. The only FWD cars Lexus has is the ES and RX (AWD w/FWD bias?). And effective with the discontinuation of the I35, Infiniti no long has a FWD car in their lineup.
As far as their regular lineups: between Toyota and Nissan only the Solara V6 (240lb-ft)and 3.5L Maxima/Altima (249-255lb-ft but probably closer to 260lb-ft) make enough power to possibly necessitate RWD in order to extract a bit more performance.
That said with TCS there's very little TS in the TL as well as the Maxima; both being the two most powerful FWD cars on the market, in terms of HP.
And as far as domestics, I believe Caddy's previous gen STS held the record for the most power ever for a FWD layout with 300hp/295lb-ft; thus the need for the Performance Shift Algorithm system. Plus, you're looking at 280lb-ft generated by the FWD GTP/Regal GS/Monte Carlo SS/Impala SS.
So it seems to me that GM (American) is convinced that high torque FWD setups work well.
![Dunno](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/dunno.gif)
#88
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Originally Posted by Nawww
You can't say it's the BEST engine in it's class, some of us (or maybe just me) still take pride in the fact that the TL is a ULEV-2 despite its 270hp V6. Nobody makes internal combustion engines like Honda. Everyone else just uses the engineering cop-out of making a bigger engine instead of a better one.
#89
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I like the 300C. I think it looks good, and Chrysler is having no problems selling them. In fact, they're single-handedly responsible for Chrysler's last couple of successful quarters.
Thoughts:
Thoughts:
- I agree that the gas mileage on that V8 is going to suck, even with the cyllinder cut-off, but I also think some of that poor mileage is due to the desire to floor the damned thing to feel the torque.
- I would have concerns about the long-term quality, but I think the drivetrain is probably bulletproof
- I have no doubt that a 300C with the Hemi can beat an Auto TL
- From the patriotic perspective, It's a bit disappointing that such core parts of the car were not engineered here. Are we, as Americans, incapable of designing good cars? I've been reading stories that automotive engienering itself is a target for outsourcing
- This forum really is hopelessly biased
#90
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Originally Posted by Aquineas
I'm sure I'll get shot for saying this, but I think the TL would be better with the VQ35. In fact, while you're at it, just throw in the Nissan transmissions as well. That would be the perfect marriage; Honda interior with Nissan drivetrain... I can't comment on the 6 speed TL as I've never driven one... But as far as the auto, it's no contest.
#91
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Originally Posted by Aquineas
I'm sure I'll get shot for saying this, but I think the TL would be better with the VQ35. In fact, while you're at it, just throw in the Nissan transmissions as well. That would be the perfect marriage; Honda interior with Nissan drivetrain... I can't comment on the 6 speed TL as I've never driven one... But as far as the auto, it's no contest.
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#92
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Originally Posted by missmyprelude
Nah. I like the gas mileage I get. Can't speak for the AT, but the Honda 6MT is much better too.
If the engine, even being smaller, has to downshift at the smallest grade to go up a hill, then you're still using fuel, just smaller amounts at a faster rate. Personally, I'd rather have the torque without a downshift.
#93
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Originally Posted by kosh2258
The EPA doesn't drive the cars in their test. They put them on a dyno, in an environmentally controlled room, and estimate mileage based on the emissions coming out the exhaust and fudge factor drag and other variables. Those numbers have been found to be off by as much as 30% towards the optimistic side.
As for the GTO, scrounge up some actual observed mileage numbers on the automatic and I'll pay attention to you - maybe.
C/D drives most tests pretty much the same way - they flog the crap out of whatever they're testing. So I don't buy that argument.
By any measure, the 300C is anything but efficient.
As for the GTO, scrounge up some actual observed mileage numbers on the automatic and I'll pay attention to you - maybe.
C/D drives most tests pretty much the same way - they flog the crap out of whatever they're testing. So I don't buy that argument.
By any measure, the 300C is anything but efficient.
#94
Move to Cars & Bikes
#95
![](http://www.chrysler.com/300/img/300c_header.jpg)
![](http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/02/srt805_02.jpg)
![](http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/02/srt805_04.jpg)
Unique calibration for five-speed automatic transmission with AutoStick®
Performance suspension, brakes, and Chrysler's Electronic Stability Program (ESP) for superior handling
20-inch wheels with 245/45ZR20 front and 255/45ZR20 rear tires
Superior SRT styling, including a lower and even bolder stance, rear spoiler, sport front seats, leather-trimmed accents, power everything, and much more
#96
Originally Posted by missmyprelude
Nah. I like the gas mileage I get. Can't speak for the AT, but the Honda 6MT is much better too.
I see people getting poor gas milege with teh TL...
#97
Moderator Alumnus
6MT G EPA is around 20/27, City/Highway. http://www.infiniti.com/content/mode...,30648,00.html
6MT TL is 20/30 http://www.acura.com/models/model_sp....asp?module=tl
I'm glad you have more highway-like conditions in your City, and 6MT should be easy to get more MPG on highway. Perhaps, 04TLers living close to you would get similar MPG, too.
IMHO, most of TLers got better MPG than they have expected, espeically if they're not living in crowded cities.
6MT TL is 20/30 http://www.acura.com/models/model_sp....asp?module=tl
I'm glad you have more highway-like conditions in your City, and 6MT should be easy to get more MPG on highway. Perhaps, 04TLers living close to you would get similar MPG, too.
IMHO, most of TLers got better MPG than they have expected, espeically if they're not living in crowded cities.
#98
Originally Posted by rets
6MT G EPA is around 20/27, City/Highway. http://www.infiniti.com/content/mode...,30648,00.html
6MT TL is 20/30 http://www.acura.com/models/model_sp....asp?module=tl
I'm glad you have more highway-like conditions in your City, and 6MT should be easy to get more MPG on highway. Perhaps, 04TLers living close to you would get similar MPG, too.
IMHO, most of TLers got better MPG than they have expected, espeically if they're not living in crowded cities.
6MT TL is 20/30 http://www.acura.com/models/model_sp....asp?module=tl
I'm glad you have more highway-like conditions in your City, and 6MT should be easy to get more MPG on highway. Perhaps, 04TLers living close to you would get similar MPG, too.
IMHO, most of TLers got better MPG than they have expected, espeically if they're not living in crowded cities.
#99
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Originally Posted by TL_6SPD
My g35 gets 23-24 city and 28-32 highway. I don't call that bad. And I am evening hitting redline a few times a day.
I see people getting poor gas milege with teh TL...
I see people getting poor gas milege with teh TL...
#100
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FWIW - Chrysler sold almost 12,000 300s in Aug (not sure how many were 300Cs). Regardless, I think this shows that people generally do like them. I know it doesn't necessarily mean it's a good car, but shows that it is at least somewhat of a hit. That's almost twice as many TLs that were sold in August. My point: the styling may not appeal to everyone, but some people are taking notice. I wouldn't be suprised if the sales die down pretty quickly (the car's styling might not last), but we'll see.
#105
Originally Posted by missmyprelude
Well the EPA numbers that I see are 18/26 for the G35 and 20/30 for the TL. Not a huge difference (and I wouldn't call the G35 bad anyway, just not as good as the TL), but big enough for me to choose the winner in this category. I consistently get 27 MPG on my circuit in the TL (I'm not sharp enough to actually break that down into city/highway like TL_6SPD was able to do). Plus, getting 6mpg over the EPA highway?! Holy crap, your car is not only faster than other G35s, it gets way better mileage - that's a keeper! (Pardon my sarcasm, but your posts get more outrageous by the day). I mostly drive highway and rural roads, and tend to give it a bit of throttle now and then (I'm certainly not constantly shifting above 4k like a lot of folks say they do though). It looks like the Maxima has EPA ratings close to the TL 20/29, so we'll call them even.
Well I drive over 100 miles a day, and I calculate my gas milege at every fill up. So I kinda know what I get. :P
#106
Does anyone have a picture of 'The Car' from a B movie released early '70s? The ugly black box that had a mind of it's own? That was the inspiration behind the 300. I have no doubt that the designer of 300 is wearing polyester.
#107
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Originally Posted by rets
It's not fair...
Ok, you will apply the same term into Harley, too, when test driving these two.
Harley, Sportster
![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/rets94/Acurazine/63_HD_Sportster.jpg)
Honda Valkyrie Rune
![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/rets94/Acurazine/04ValkyrieRune.jpg)
Ok, you will apply the same term into Harley, too, when test driving these two.
Harley, Sportster
![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/rets94/Acurazine/63_HD_Sportster.jpg)
Honda Valkyrie Rune
![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/rets94/Acurazine/04ValkyrieRune.jpg)
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
BTW, now I want a Honda Valkyrie Rune!!
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#110
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Originally Posted by Tracer
Here in LA, all i see is all that pony power in the 300C wasted... 100 year olds drive that car ... however, i don't think any him or herself respecting 20 or 30 something would want to be caught dead driving that thing....
Tracer
Tracer
#111
Senior Moderator
Let me tell you about a 1-week rental I had (2005 Chrysler 300c) -- it was a base model (V6, cloth interior, etc). I would imagine the interior dashboard to be the same across the board (V6, Hemi, etc ...) and I was really not impressed. The layout of the instrument panel is quite simple and not cluttered but for the 'flagship' Chrysler, I was quite surprised. I'm not a big fan of the analog clock (like in the Infiniti) so that didn't help. Fit & finish was average. The cloth interior -- not very luxurious. The roominess -- it's huge. Trunk space very useable and accommodating for 7 carry-on pieces of luggage.
Exterior is love or hate. I do prefer this model over the previous gen. Nevertheless, I do prefer the looks of the 2nd gen / 3rd gen TL any day.
Driving impressions: I am comparing a 2005 V6 300c with the 2002 V6 TL-S. I was driving around the island of Oahu (Hawaii) so it's quite hilly to the Midwest city where I live. The V6 300c was searching for the right gear when going up inclines. Mind you, there was 4 people in the car (550lb) and A/C on full-blast. I haven't taken my car up such inclines so I can't make the comparison. Low-end torque was very good. Off a traffic light, I could take off and change lanes quite easily (but Hawaiian drivers let you in -- no need to be overly aggressive). Handling of the 300c is strictly meant for highway cruising. Take a corner with any spirit and the tires will squeal like a pig. (I went to a gas station and added more air -- above Chrysler spec but well below Goodyear sidewall max). The turning radius of this land boat proved to be very good -- driving around some cramped parking lots was challenging but I got the car in some tight spaces. Fuel economy is average -- 350 miles, I added $45 of gas @ $2.25/gallon. That was mixed city/highway driving.
Overall, I was not very impressed with this Chysler offering. For the money, I would look for a different car. I am most likely not in the demographic that the 300c is targeting. One thing is for sure -- when I got back home from holidays, I had a new appreciation to my car.
Exterior is love or hate. I do prefer this model over the previous gen. Nevertheless, I do prefer the looks of the 2nd gen / 3rd gen TL any day.
Driving impressions: I am comparing a 2005 V6 300c with the 2002 V6 TL-S. I was driving around the island of Oahu (Hawaii) so it's quite hilly to the Midwest city where I live. The V6 300c was searching for the right gear when going up inclines. Mind you, there was 4 people in the car (550lb) and A/C on full-blast. I haven't taken my car up such inclines so I can't make the comparison. Low-end torque was very good. Off a traffic light, I could take off and change lanes quite easily (but Hawaiian drivers let you in -- no need to be overly aggressive). Handling of the 300c is strictly meant for highway cruising. Take a corner with any spirit and the tires will squeal like a pig. (I went to a gas station and added more air -- above Chrysler spec but well below Goodyear sidewall max). The turning radius of this land boat proved to be very good -- driving around some cramped parking lots was challenging but I got the car in some tight spaces. Fuel economy is average -- 350 miles, I added $45 of gas @ $2.25/gallon. That was mixed city/highway driving.
Overall, I was not very impressed with this Chysler offering. For the money, I would look for a different car. I am most likely not in the demographic that the 300c is targeting. One thing is for sure -- when I got back home from holidays, I had a new appreciation to my car.
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#113
Why do people here have the impression that this model will ever improve in quality? Look at the god damned line-up they have and how long they have existed…. there…end of argument!
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#114
Hacksaw..I dont think you understand..Harleys are for you posers and Hondas(sportbikes) are for us riders..I want a bike thats fast,stops great and handles..A softtail just did not really work for me..
If I wanted to cruise,go bar hoppen,pick up the chicks I would have a Harley..But I just want to ride..
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#115
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
![](http://www.chrysler.com/300/img/300c_header.jpg)
#116
The car has a waiting list. They can't sell enough Hemis. The car is hot. It could be 50k for this SRT-8 (I say around 44k like the SRT-6). People love the styling. It's a great interpretation of an American sedan, instead of all the American made, Japanese looking sedans out there. Michael Vick just bought one here in Atlanta and a slew of celebrities as well.
The fact it this car gets attention from people and the press the TL can't begin to match. This is the first Chrysler people are trading in BMWs, ES 300s, Caddy's for. It is hot.
The TL is not some young peoples car ya'll make it to be and some people don't like the styling of it either. Styling is subjective.
The fact is this is ANOTHER car in the 30-40k range (with the Hemi) that is great competition.
The fact it this car gets attention from people and the press the TL can't begin to match. This is the first Chrysler people are trading in BMWs, ES 300s, Caddy's for. It is hot.
The TL is not some young peoples car ya'll make it to be and some people don't like the styling of it either. Styling is subjective.
The fact is this is ANOTHER car in the 30-40k range (with the Hemi) that is great competition.
#117
Originally Posted by Ken1997TL
The 300C appeals to those who put outside appearances above substance, quality and practicality. In other words, the vain and shallow.
Its pillbox like structure with gunslit windows make me feel like Al Capone driving it, the dash is too high, the interior plastics cheap as hell and as if it will make it all better, a giant FAKE Hemi engine that does not even use hemispherical combustion chambers....
So yeah, what we have here is a poseur of a car, screaming with all its marketing hype to those who want to be flashy-looking with their bling bling but are really just driving a piece of crap with some chrome sprayed on.
This is all, of course, in my most humble opinion.![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Its pillbox like structure with gunslit windows make me feel like Al Capone driving it, the dash is too high, the interior plastics cheap as hell and as if it will make it all better, a giant FAKE Hemi engine that does not even use hemispherical combustion chambers....
So yeah, what we have here is a poseur of a car, screaming with all its marketing hype to those who want to be flashy-looking with their bling bling but are really just driving a piece of crap with some chrome sprayed on.
This is all, of course, in my most humble opinion.
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