Acura needs a makeover
09-23-2010, 07:40 PM
#81
Well half of the success Lexus has enjoyed, and not only now but over the years, comes directly from the Camry in the ES, so this is not a bad concept no matter who uses it or what the enthusiast crowd thinks.
I will argue that the 3.7L Acura uses is still competitive enough against the likes of the others FI engines for now. Infiniti does a great job with it's 3.7L despite it being NA and Acura doesn't neeed much to get another 20-25 HP out of the current J series. I would imagine the next one would be at least 330 HP, if they get back to their roots and are commited to NA for the V6 product then we might see 350 HP in top form.
But beyond that for any kind of V8 power substitute they will need more but probably won't even offer that because the sales percenatges of V8's just don't support it. Wonder what they are working on as far as a performance hybrid that the next RL is supposed to be which has V8 type power and who knows what kind of fuel economy.
RWD is just not needed with the type of AWD system they use. It's as close to a rear wheel as almost any AWD gets and the results speak for themselves while still having superior all weather capabilities. They even have tweaks that allow up to almost a full rear bias with the normal torque vectoring as well. It's a platform that allows them to tweak it as nearly a full front drive, full rear drive or more even split in distributions and maybe a variable combo of all in the future or some type of driver adjustments.
The 6AT is finally here, they are currently repositioning their sedan lineup, a smaller sub model is coming and more TSX variants, revised styling, and a new flagship RL. They they have good pieces in place they just need to implement and execute them properly and they could be a top three luxury brand but that's easier said then done.
I will argue that the 3.7L Acura uses is still competitive enough against the likes of the others FI engines for now. Infiniti does a great job with it's 3.7L despite it being NA and Acura doesn't neeed much to get another 20-25 HP out of the current J series. I would imagine the next one would be at least 330 HP, if they get back to their roots and are commited to NA for the V6 product then we might see 350 HP in top form.
But beyond that for any kind of V8 power substitute they will need more but probably won't even offer that because the sales percenatges of V8's just don't support it. Wonder what they are working on as far as a performance hybrid that the next RL is supposed to be which has V8 type power and who knows what kind of fuel economy.
RWD is just not needed with the type of AWD system they use. It's as close to a rear wheel as almost any AWD gets and the results speak for themselves while still having superior all weather capabilities. They even have tweaks that allow up to almost a full rear bias with the normal torque vectoring as well. It's a platform that allows them to tweak it as nearly a full front drive, full rear drive or more even split in distributions and maybe a variable combo of all in the future or some type of driver adjustments.
The 6AT is finally here, they are currently repositioning their sedan lineup, a smaller sub model is coming and more TSX variants, revised styling, and a new flagship RL. They they have good pieces in place they just need to implement and execute them properly and they could be a top three luxury brand but that's easier said then done.
Acura is improving, as slow as they may be, but they are far from having the reputation that Lexus/BMW/MB does at least luxury-wise, and I think they're perfectly fine with that. They want to offer a lower priced, yet still competitive product. The current styling trend has knocked them down a few notches, but I highly doubt they'll start selling anything like the likes of the LS600h or the S65 AMG or anything like that soon.
I don't think it's right to criticize Acura for using the Accord platform, and I think most people don't mean to do so.... what they probably mean is Acura needs to develop another platform, instead of stretching and reconfiguring the Accord platform to accommodate various vehicles of various shapes and sizes. Lexus does share the Camry platform with the ES350 and RX350 only, but the rest of their models have been RWD only with optional AWD platforms. And really, what initially gave Lexus life and built its initial reputation was the LS400, not the ES350. The main reason why the ES350 has so much success is because its the entry level offering for Lexus.
Of course the LS can't carry the Lexus brand by itself because it costs so much, relative to the rest of the lineup.... but even then, it achieves sales numbers that Acura dreams that the RL could. And what do you know.... the LS doesn't share a platform with the Camry.
The RL may or may not be on the same platform as the Accord, but either way they're not doing something right.
09-23-2010, 10:41 PM
#82
^I agree with what you are saying, what I meant by saying top three was in terms of sales not necessarily in terms of perception, top tier luxury, or things along that line. The reason I say this is because they are a top 5 in sales for a luxury brand in the states right now and that's really good considering the RL has been a bust and this TL is underacheiving, they share a global platform, are limited in model variants like coupes and wagons, etc, are FWD based, have no V8's and so on and so forth. They were a consistent contender for the number three spot a few years ago, usually finishing fourth. They have dropped a spot since then but I think that them stepping back to tool the sedan lineup and focusing on brand recognition will only benefit them in the long run.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 09-23-2010 at 10:46 PM.
09-24-2010, 08:21 AM
#83
Senior Moderator
I don't think it's right to criticize Acura for using the Accord platform, and I think most people don't mean to do so.... what they probably mean is Acura needs to develop another platform, instead of stretching and reconfiguring the Accord platform to accommodate various vehicles of various shapes and sizes.
Speaking of the upcoming sub TSX Acura. Just curious what everyone's expectations are? As most of you know, Acura has sold a sub TSX level model in Canada for well over 10 years now, the EL and now CSX which is basically a re-badged or more accurately European/Japanese Honda Civic sedan.
Does anyone truly believe that this Acura will be anything but another re-badged Honda Civic, likely with slightly more power?
09-25-2010, 08:59 PM
#84
Senior Moderator
I realize I'm late to say it in this particular thread, but....
This has been beaten again and again and again and again into the ground. I did like the original post, though.
Apologies for the threadcrap, but that's how I feel on the topic. After three Acuras, I don't see myself owning another until they bring back some of the enthusiast-oriented cars that made me interested in Acura in the first place.
This has been beaten again and again and again and again into the ground. I did like the original post, though.
Apologies for the threadcrap, but that's how I feel on the topic. After three Acuras, I don't see myself owning another until they bring back some of the enthusiast-oriented cars that made me interested in Acura in the first place.
Last edited by neuronbob; 09-26-2010 at 06:42 AM.
10-01-2010, 03:29 AM
#85
I know what the OP means by this. I wouldn't say that in my area the road is lacking Acuras by any means, but they used to be *EVERYWHERE*. Literally, I remember the Legends, those were like every other car. Not to mention Integra, Vigor, and 1-3G TL. I guess I'm going way back, but I remember in the 90s and early 2000s Acuras were more than prevalent.
Lol, different strokes. I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I HATE that motor. Fast, yes, but let's just say I couldn't WAIT to take the loaner back and get back into my car. I'm a very big V6 snob; the idle of that thing was hardly smoother than a riding lawnmower. It was like I could feel every fire of the spark plugs. It was really quick and powerful, but that shit would be a deal-breaker to me.
But it took that RDX up to speed quite nicely :-)
I'm just not a fan of 4 cylinders.
I personally think the turbo-charged 4-cyl K23 engine on the RDX is a masterpiece of efficiency and power. It is Acura's most fun to drive engine right now. It has so much low end torque and so much high-end horsepower, it really is the perfect engine. It is also very easy to tune and has lots of potential.
But it took that RDX up to speed quite nicely :-)
I'm just not a fan of 4 cylinders.
10-01-2010, 10:15 AM
#86
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
I realize I'm late to say it in this particular thread, but....
This has been beaten again and again and again and again into the ground. I did like the original post, though.
Apologies for the threadcrap, but that's how I feel on the topic. After three Acuras, I don't see myself owning another until they bring back some of the enthusiast-oriented cars that made me interested in Acura in the first place.
This has been beaten again and again and again and again into the ground. I did like the original post, though.
Apologies for the threadcrap, but that's how I feel on the topic. After three Acuras, I don't see myself owning another until they bring back some of the enthusiast-oriented cars that made me interested in Acura in the first place.
Toyota Camry = Lexus ES
Infiniti G series = Nissan Maxima
Basic platform is shared for cost savings, making the vehicle more affordable (plus profits).
10-05-2010, 07:20 PM
#88
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most popular and how often do they change the look
What new acura is the most popular and how often do they change the look and style,some manufactures change every six years.
Thanks
Thanks
10-05-2010, 08:52 PM
#89
Senior Moderator
The MDX is Acuras biggest seller followed by the TL (half the units)
http://www.hondanews.com/channels/co...sales-increase
As for how often, acura seems to do it 5-6 years
http://www.hondanews.com/channels/co...sales-increase
As for how often, acura seems to do it 5-6 years
10-05-2010, 09:17 PM
#92
My first Avatar....
worthy, IMO. I'll always have a sweet spot for te 4G TL though for some weird reason.
10-05-2010, 11:28 PM
#95
Senior Moderator
Most manufacturers do a 5 year cycle -> 3 yrs with original, then 2 years with a slight refreshed version.
Some other ones do the 7 year cycle-> 4 yrs with the original, then 3 years with a slight refreshed version.
Example of the 5 year cycle is honda and acura. Acura 3G TL debuts in 2004MY, remains the same until 2006MY. 2007MY comes and it's refreshed. So 3G TL lifespan, 2004-2008.
Example of the 7 year cycle is BMW's 7 Series E65/66. BMW debuts in 2002 MY and stays close to the same until MY2005. Then in MY2006 it's refreshed and stay so until MY2008. Then the F01/02 7 series arrives in 2009MY.
Some other ones do the 7 year cycle-> 4 yrs with the original, then 3 years with a slight refreshed version.
Example of the 5 year cycle is honda and acura. Acura 3G TL debuts in 2004MY, remains the same until 2006MY. 2007MY comes and it's refreshed. So 3G TL lifespan, 2004-2008.
Example of the 7 year cycle is BMW's 7 Series E65/66. BMW debuts in 2002 MY and stays close to the same until MY2005. Then in MY2006 it's refreshed and stay so until MY2008. Then the F01/02 7 series arrives in 2009MY.
10-06-2010, 01:20 AM
#96
Acura's sales are horrible right now...
Poor guys got the styling wrong, needs mass appeal - too ahead of the curb.
Some dealer I saw in Van's throwing on RonJon grills on the cars...
The cars themselves are great, not the styling (for mass appeal).
I hope they hurry up with the rhinoplasty (there's the spy shots that they are moving up the new gens right?)
Poor guys got the styling wrong, needs mass appeal - too ahead of the curb.
Some dealer I saw in Van's throwing on RonJon grills on the cars...
The cars themselves are great, not the styling (for mass appeal).
I hope they hurry up with the rhinoplasty (there's the spy shots that they are moving up the new gens right?)
10-06-2010, 06:30 AM
#97
My first Avatar....
10-06-2010, 07:33 AM
#98
LOL no, I'm serious.
Like some one mentioned, its ahead of the curve.
Econoboxes are just now playing catch up with the 3rd gen. Hell, I see malibu's with styling cues stolen from the TL.
its just a matter of time, until people fall in love with the 4th gen.
Like some one mentioned, its ahead of the curve.
Econoboxes are just now playing catch up with the 3rd gen. Hell, I see malibu's with styling cues stolen from the TL.
its just a matter of time, until people fall in love with the 4th gen.
10-06-2010, 09:12 AM
#99
My first Avatar....
10-06-2010, 10:52 AM
#100
Senior Moderator
10-06-2010, 02:43 PM
#101
The MDX is Acuras biggest seller followed by the TL (half the units)
Acura's sales are horrible right now...
Don't get me wrong I think toning down the styling a bit is a good idea because of reactions to them but strangely enough the RDX added the beak and so did the MDX for their MMC's recently and since, they starting picking up sales and flying off the lots, I hope we all see the irony in that.
10-06-2010, 03:03 PM
#102
Senior Moderator
The beak works on trucks. Its ok on the RDX but IMO looks down right great on the MDX. The MDX styling actually improved quite a bit IMO with the addition of the beak.
10-06-2010, 03:13 PM
#103
Apparently it works on the TSX too which has taken a bit of the market that the 3G TL used to hold and that was done by design might I add.
I will agree with the MDX since it is no better or worse IMO but the RDX to me is the worst grill in the lineup. Then you have other cars that look great by most opinions but can't outgain the Acura competitor which is supposed to be downright ugly.
I guess my point is you can't put too much faith into styling or the opinion of it alone, nor can you decide that is the reason for a vehicle's success or failure all by itself.
I will agree with the MDX since it is no better or worse IMO but the RDX to me is the worst grill in the lineup. Then you have other cars that look great by most opinions but can't outgain the Acura competitor which is supposed to be downright ugly.
I guess my point is you can't put too much faith into styling or the opinion of it alone, nor can you decide that is the reason for a vehicle's success or failure all by itself.
10-06-2010, 03:40 PM
#104
Senior Moderator
I guess my point is you can't put too much faith into styling or the opinion of it alone, nor can you decide that is the reason for a vehicle's success or failure all by itself.
10-07-2010, 02:01 PM
#105
What Acura really needs is a good marketing department, something the German brands master (or Apple for that matter 
).
They need how to learn to toot their own horn and be very "supportive" of industry magazines...
Acura sales are soft?? Maybe...not here in the Northwest, I had veriy difficult time negotiating the price of my new TL SH-AWD...roads are full of new Acuras and dealerships are full of people...feels almost like being at Target on Saturday....
The styling of the TL is very polarizing (which is a good thing IMHO), some people hate it, some think that is 10 years ahead of the pack...one thing is sure, park a TL next to an A4 (my god the quintessential blandness) or a 3 series, or a G, it makes the competitors look very ordinary commuter cars...seriously....
I hope I do not offend anyone but, frankly, if you REALLY sit on both and you do not see how the interior of the TL is vastly superior to the one of the 3 series (hmm these fake leather seats...if BMW does it it's ecology, if Kia does it it's cheap...) you have your head stuck up you know what....or you need to stop reading Car & Driver...A fully loaded Honda Accord has better interior than that...
Everybody "dream" the handling of the bimmers...yes, on a track with billiard table-like road surface they are great thanks to the refined balance.....try to make a mistake on a wet road (or just uneven surface) and you will develop an attraction for off-road activities (once a 3 driver tried to chase me with my Maxima on a wet twisty road and he gave up after couple of butt swinging episodes....)
Saturday I was shopping at Top Food and I parked at the same time of a Porsche 911 cabriolet (and maybe even the turbo) a minimum 100K & up car.....a very fit, tanned, expensively dressed couple in their fifities got out, the lady took off her sunglasses and asked me "what the heck is that car??", The guy then said "is the new TL??" They asked if they could see the interiors....she kept repeating "it's beautiful I like it..." she was thinking about replacing her Lexus GS...she got "scared" when she saw the manual tranny, I smiled and told her "don't worry, they make it automatic too...eheheh"
He kept circling around my car (black on black interior) and he said "that is a badass car.....a sedan that look like a very sporty coupe..."
Do you think the same thing would have happened if I had a 3 series or an A4?? (even an A6 or a 5 series for that matter).
Good job Acura...keep being different......everybody (theoretically) wants to be different, to distinguish themselves...and then they drive the usual boring Bimmer or Audi (which by the way I had both in the past....and the repair shops loved me dearly for that!!) when someone comes around really daring to be different..it becomes ugly...go figure!!!
).They need how to learn to toot their own horn and be very "supportive" of industry magazines...
Acura sales are soft?? Maybe...not here in the Northwest, I had veriy difficult time negotiating the price of my new TL SH-AWD...roads are full of new Acuras and dealerships are full of people...feels almost like being at Target on Saturday....
The styling of the TL is very polarizing (which is a good thing IMHO), some people hate it, some think that is 10 years ahead of the pack...one thing is sure, park a TL next to an A4 (my god the quintessential blandness) or a 3 series, or a G, it makes the competitors look very ordinary commuter cars...seriously....
I hope I do not offend anyone but, frankly, if you REALLY sit on both and you do not see how the interior of the TL is vastly superior to the one of the 3 series (hmm these fake leather seats...if BMW does it it's ecology, if Kia does it it's cheap...) you have your head stuck up you know what....or you need to stop reading Car & Driver...A fully loaded Honda Accord has better interior than that...
Everybody "dream" the handling of the bimmers...yes, on a track with billiard table-like road surface they are great thanks to the refined balance.....try to make a mistake on a wet road (or just uneven surface) and you will develop an attraction for off-road activities (once a 3 driver tried to chase me with my Maxima on a wet twisty road and he gave up after couple of butt swinging episodes....)
Saturday I was shopping at Top Food and I parked at the same time of a Porsche 911 cabriolet (and maybe even the turbo) a minimum 100K & up car.....a very fit, tanned, expensively dressed couple in their fifities got out, the lady took off her sunglasses and asked me "what the heck is that car??", The guy then said "is the new TL??" They asked if they could see the interiors....she kept repeating "it's beautiful I like it..." she was thinking about replacing her Lexus GS...she got "scared" when she saw the manual tranny, I smiled and told her "don't worry, they make it automatic too...eheheh"
He kept circling around my car (black on black interior) and he said "that is a badass car.....a sedan that look like a very sporty coupe..."
Do you think the same thing would have happened if I had a 3 series or an A4?? (even an A6 or a 5 series for that matter).
Good job Acura...keep being different......everybody (theoretically) wants to be different, to distinguish themselves...and then they drive the usual boring Bimmer or Audi (which by the way I had both in the past....and the repair shops loved me dearly for that!!) when someone comes around really daring to be different..it becomes ugly...go figure!!!
Last edited by saturno_v; 10-07-2010 at 02:06 PM.
10-07-2010, 09:22 PM
#106
My first Avatar....
^
You must be the president of the 4G forums.
You must be the president of the 4G forums.
10-07-2010, 09:26 PM
#107
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What Acura really needs is a good marketing department, something the German brands master (or Apple for that matter ).
They need how to learn to toot their own horn and be very "supportive" of industry magazines...
Acura sales are soft?? Maybe...not here in the Northwest, I had veriy difficult time negotiating the price of my new TL SH-AWD...roads are full of new Acuras and dealerships are full of people...feels almost like being at Target on Saturday....
The styling of the TL is very polarizing (which is a good thing IMHO), some people hate it, some think that is 10 years ahead of the pack...one thing is sure, park a TL next to an A4 (my god the quintessential blandness) or a 3 series, or a G, it makes the competitors look very ordinary commuter cars...seriously....
I hope I do not offend anyone but, frankly, if you REALLY sit on both and you do not see how the interior of the TL is vastly superior to the one of the 3 series (hmm these fake leather seats...if BMW does it it's ecology, if Kia does it it's cheap...) you have your head stuck up you know what....or you need to stop reading Car & Driver...A fully loaded Honda Accord has better interior than that...
Everybody "dream" the handling of the bimmers...yes, on a track with billiard table-like road surface they are great thanks to the refined balance.....try to make a mistake on a wet road (or just uneven surface) and you will develop an attraction for off-road activities (once a 3 driver tried to chase me with my Maxima on a wet twisty road and he gave up after couple of butt swinging episodes....)
Saturday I was shopping at Top Food and I parked at the same time of a Porsche 911 cabriolet (and maybe even the turbo) a minimum 100K & up car.....a very fit, tanned, expensively dressed couple in their fifities got out, the lady took off her sunglasses and asked me "what the heck is that car??", The guy then said "is the new TL??" They asked if they could see the interiors....she kept repeating "it's beautiful I like it..." she was thinking about replacing her Lexus GS...she got "scared" when she saw the manual tranny, I smiled and told her "don't worry, they make it automatic too...eheheh"
He kept circling around my car (black on black interior) and he said "that is a badass car.....a sedan that look like a very sporty coupe..."
Do you think the same thing would have happened if I had a 3 series or an A4?? (even an A6 or a 5 series for that matter).
Good job Acura...keep being different......everybody (theoretically) wants to be different, to distinguish themselves...and then they drive the usual boring Bimmer or Audi (which by the way I had both in the past....and the repair shops loved me dearly for that!!) when someone comes around really daring to be different..it becomes ugly...go figure!!!
).They need how to learn to toot their own horn and be very "supportive" of industry magazines...
Acura sales are soft?? Maybe...not here in the Northwest, I had veriy difficult time negotiating the price of my new TL SH-AWD...roads are full of new Acuras and dealerships are full of people...feels almost like being at Target on Saturday....
The styling of the TL is very polarizing (which is a good thing IMHO), some people hate it, some think that is 10 years ahead of the pack...one thing is sure, park a TL next to an A4 (my god the quintessential blandness) or a 3 series, or a G, it makes the competitors look very ordinary commuter cars...seriously....
I hope I do not offend anyone but, frankly, if you REALLY sit on both and you do not see how the interior of the TL is vastly superior to the one of the 3 series (hmm these fake leather seats...if BMW does it it's ecology, if Kia does it it's cheap...) you have your head stuck up you know what....or you need to stop reading Car & Driver...A fully loaded Honda Accord has better interior than that...
Everybody "dream" the handling of the bimmers...yes, on a track with billiard table-like road surface they are great thanks to the refined balance.....try to make a mistake on a wet road (or just uneven surface) and you will develop an attraction for off-road activities (once a 3 driver tried to chase me with my Maxima on a wet twisty road and he gave up after couple of butt swinging episodes....)
Saturday I was shopping at Top Food and I parked at the same time of a Porsche 911 cabriolet (and maybe even the turbo) a minimum 100K & up car.....a very fit, tanned, expensively dressed couple in their fifities got out, the lady took off her sunglasses and asked me "what the heck is that car??", The guy then said "is the new TL??" They asked if they could see the interiors....she kept repeating "it's beautiful I like it..." she was thinking about replacing her Lexus GS...she got "scared" when she saw the manual tranny, I smiled and told her "don't worry, they make it automatic too...eheheh"
He kept circling around my car (black on black interior) and he said "that is a badass car.....a sedan that look like a very sporty coupe..."
Do you think the same thing would have happened if I had a 3 series or an A4?? (even an A6 or a 5 series for that matter).
Good job Acura...keep being different......everybody (theoretically) wants to be different, to distinguish themselves...and then they drive the usual boring Bimmer or Audi (which by the way I had both in the past....and the repair shops loved me dearly for that!!) when someone comes around really daring to be different..it becomes ugly...go figure!!!
10-07-2010, 09:39 PM
#108
Yes, Pontiac decided to be daring and different and people called it ugly. I know... WTF right? beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
Leave the TL exactly as it is, Acura! It's selling quite well despite the haters! What do they know, they're not designers and engineers like you guys are! There's no way that it could possibly be redesigned to look any better and possibly grab a few hundred sales more each month! Exclamation mark!
10-07-2010, 11:15 PM
#109
Yes, Pontiac decided to be daring and different and people called it ugly. I know... WTF right? beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
Leave the TL exactly as it is, Acura! It's selling quite well despite the haters! What do they know, they're not designers and engineers like you guys are! There's no way that it could possibly be redesigned to look any better and possibly grab a few hundred sales more each month! Exclamation mark!
10-08-2010, 06:22 AM
#110
My first Avatar....
10-08-2010, 07:21 AM
#111
Senior Moderator
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I honestly cant tell if the 4G TL is coming or going.
They knocked one out of the park with the 3G. No idea why they thought they needed to change it so radically
They knocked one out of the park with the 3G. No idea why they thought they needed to change it so radically
10-08-2010, 07:55 AM
#112
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Styling is what gets people into the showrooms to begin with. Gearheads like us may look at performance numbers, but the vast majority of people get interested in a vehicle by the way it looks....it's a visceral reaction. If you can't lure them into the showroom to look at one because the car doesn't look good, most won't care about HP, or MPG or crash ratings. They want to look at something that they will like to be seen in.
Despite a few awkward styling queues, I actually like the 4G, and I think that it's a great performance sedan. I may even consider a SH AWD 6MT as my next ride depending on the MMC...but obviously, the styling is the main reason why sales are down commensurate with other similar makes/models. The 3G was, for the most part, a universally appealing design....that's why it sold well. Sure the performance and value comes into play as well, but the appealing design got people interested...unfortunately, that is what Acura is lacking with its current offerings.
Last edited by Ramrodthrusterpuppy; 10-08-2010 at 07:59 AM.
10-08-2010, 08:47 AM
#113
I realize I'm late to say it in this particular thread, but....
This has been beaten again and again and again and again into the ground. I did like the original post, though.
Apologies for the threadcrap, but that's how I feel on the topic. After three Acuras, I don't see myself owning another until they bring back some of the enthusiast-oriented cars that made me interested in Acura in the first place.
This has been beaten again and again and again and again into the ground. I did like the original post, though.
Apologies for the threadcrap, but that's how I feel on the topic. After three Acuras, I don't see myself owning another until they bring back some of the enthusiast-oriented cars that made me interested in Acura in the first place.
Honestly if the original post wasn't as good as it was... this topic would have been shut down as quickly as the other 759 topics about this. But, it was good and it gave us a current topic to merge all of the other similar crap into... so it served it's purpose 
10-08-2010, 08:50 AM
#114
Actually, you can and people do.
Styling is what gets people into the showrooms to begin with. Gearheads like us may look at performance numbers, but the vast majority of people get interested in a vehicle by the way it looks....it's a visceral reaction. If you can't lure them into the showroom to look at one because the car doesn't look good, most won't care about HP, or MPG or crash ratings. They want to look at something that they will like to be seen in.
Despite a few awkward styling queues, I actually like the 4G, and I think that it's a great performance sedan. I may even consider a SH AWD 6MT as my next ride depending on the MMC...but obviously, the styling is the main reason why sales are down commensurate with other similar makes/models. The 3G was, for the most part, a universally appealing design....that's why it sold well. Sure the performance and value comes into play as well, but the appealing design got people interested...unfortunately, that is what Acura is lacking with its current offerings.
Styling is what gets people into the showrooms to begin with. Gearheads like us may look at performance numbers, but the vast majority of people get interested in a vehicle by the way it looks....it's a visceral reaction. If you can't lure them into the showroom to look at one because the car doesn't look good, most won't care about HP, or MPG or crash ratings. They want to look at something that they will like to be seen in.
Despite a few awkward styling queues, I actually like the 4G, and I think that it's a great performance sedan. I may even consider a SH AWD 6MT as my next ride depending on the MMC...but obviously, the styling is the main reason why sales are down commensurate with other similar makes/models. The 3G was, for the most part, a universally appealing design....that's why it sold well. Sure the performance and value comes into play as well, but the appealing design got people interested...unfortunately, that is what Acura is lacking with its current offerings.
I was so excited for the 4G, the rumors of SH-AWD and a bigger V6, along with a 6-speed manual, I was positive this next TL was going to be awesome.... but the styling left so much to be desired. Sad, because I really like the umber interior.
It seems like the general sentiment is not that the 4G is a failure, at least not in the respect of sales. What it is a failure in is the ability to swoon most of the people who fell in love with the 3G. Had the styling and proportions been more universally appealing, I'm confident at least a couple hundred more people would have found themselves in a 4G each month since it's introduction.
The rear fogs and the dunno-what-they-are lights on the FWD don't compliment anything else on the car. I can go on and on beating the dead horse back to life over the styling. Of course, its all my opinion and everyone is different. But ultimately other people in my household, other people in my family and many of my friends all share my sentiment. Simply because of the styling, they have crossed off the TL from their list.
My cousin got a 2008 G37 a while ago, and she actually test drove a Prius and a 2010 Camaro, two cars I'd NEVER imagine her ever trying out. The Toyota dealer screwed up by brushing her off as a tire kicker, and the 2010 Camaro was just too big and had poor visibility. The size of the 4G may or may not have influenced her but I'm sure the interior would have helped, but she never care to even look, because she couldn't get over the exterior.
We have a 2G TL-S and my sister was waiting on the 4G since the 3G looked so good, but she didn't want to get the same car, only one generation apart. When she saw how it looked that told her to look elsewhere and she bought an ES350. That's two lost sales in just two households actually looking in that $35-40k segment, who knows how many others they lost.
10-08-2010, 01:25 PM
#115
Actually, you can and people do.
Styling is what gets people into the showrooms to begin with. Gearheads like us may look at performance numbers, but the vast majority of people get interested in a vehicle by the way it looks....it's a visceral reaction. If you can't lure them into the showroom to look at one because the car doesn't look good, most won't care about HP, or MPG or crash ratings. They want to look at something that they will like to be seen in.
Despite a few awkward styling queues, I actually like the 4G, and I think that it's a great performance sedan. I may even consider a SH AWD 6MT as my next ride depending on the MMC...but obviously, the styling is the main reason why sales are down commensurate with other similar makes/models. The 3G was, for the most part, a universally appealing design....that's why it sold well. Sure the performance and value comes into play as well, but the appealing design got people interested...unfortunately, that is what Acura is lacking with its current offerings.
Styling is what gets people into the showrooms to begin with. Gearheads like us may look at performance numbers, but the vast majority of people get interested in a vehicle by the way it looks....it's a visceral reaction. If you can't lure them into the showroom to look at one because the car doesn't look good, most won't care about HP, or MPG or crash ratings. They want to look at something that they will like to be seen in.
Despite a few awkward styling queues, I actually like the 4G, and I think that it's a great performance sedan. I may even consider a SH AWD 6MT as my next ride depending on the MMC...but obviously, the styling is the main reason why sales are down commensurate with other similar makes/models. The 3G was, for the most part, a universally appealing design....that's why it sold well. Sure the performance and value comes into play as well, but the appealing design got people interested...unfortunately, that is what Acura is lacking with its current offerings.
Styling is very important, I agree, but it is all up to the individual to decide what looks good and there are quite a few people who think the TL looks great as well.
"It seems like the general sentiment is not that the 4G is a failure, at least not in the respect of sales. What it is a failure in is the ability to swoon most of the people who fell in love with the 3G. Had the styling and proportions been more universally appealing, I'm confident at least a couple hundred more people would have found themselves in a 4G each month since it's introduction."
This quote best sums up what is really going on with the TL IMO. It has failed to capture people in the same way but it is not a failure in most other respects especially from a sales perspective. We cant underrate or ignore the fact of just how much the economy is affecting sales of most vehicles and brands compared to a few years ago to make the car seem worse than it is.
Acura as a whole is selling half of what they did in 06 their last best selling, record setting year for the brand and the 3G TL. Sure enough in 09 they sold roughly half the number of TL's compred to 06 despite it being the 4G, and are not in any less of a position or sales rank now then they were at that time because most brands are down just the same. The TL is still the best selling Acura sedan making up 32% of total brand sales (so one in 3 Acuras sold is a TL) compared to 35% in 06 and it currently makes up 52% of the Acura sedan sales compared to 59% in 06 with the 3G.
A small drop off yes but largely in line considering the economy and the fact that the car has moved away from a typical entry sedan and the TSX has picked up an increased role in that position with an increased share of sedan market within Acura. Also that was the best 3G and Acura year ever, only compared to the last full year of 4G sales, which is not necessarily it's best for a fairer comparison.
What we are seeing is the economic affect combined with a shift in the cars market (size, price points, and position) and the TSX is a part of it and that is why the TL is now a little short of most of the competitors in sales but when you look at total sedans sales rank, they actually do better now then they did 06, having the 4th best selling sedan line of all luxury brands where they used to be 5th, while still currently holding the 5th place in total sales. If the TL was that affected or doing that poorly by itself, Acura would not be holding these ranks right now.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 10-08-2010 at 01:32 PM.
10-08-2010, 02:53 PM
#116
Three Wheelin'
As I said in an earlier post, the reason it's not all styling is because there are a number of TL competitors that many would suggest look way better but sell less, the same, or very little more. It's no good to have a great looking car by popular vote only to have it be crap in all other areas, just the same it's not good to have a great car in most areas but not be considered too popular in the looks department.
Styling is very important, I agree, but it is all up to the individual to decide what looks good and there are quite a few people who think the TL looks great as well.
"It seems like the general sentiment is not that the 4G is a failure, at least not in the respect of sales. What it is a failure in is the ability to swoon most of the people who fell in love with the 3G. Had the styling and proportions been more universally appealing, I'm confident at least a couple hundred more people would have found themselves in a 4G each month since it's introduction."
This quote best sums up what is really going on with the TL IMO. It has failed to capture people in the same way but it is not a failure in most other respects especially from a sales perspective. We cant underrate or ignore the fact of just how much the economy is affecting sales of most vehicles and brands compared to a few years ago to make the car seem worse than it is.
Acura as a whole is selling half of what they did in 06 their last best selling, record setting year for the brand and the 3G TL. Sure enough in 09 they sold roughly half the number of TL's compred to 06 despite it being the 4G, and are not in any less of a position or sales rank now then they were at that time because most brands are down just the same. The TL is still the best selling Acura sedan making up 32% of total brand sales (so one in 3 Acuras sold is a TL) compared to 35% in 06 and it currently makes up 52% of the Acura sedan sales compared to 59% in 06 with the 3G.
A small drop off yes but largely in line considering the economy and the fact that the car has moved away from a typical entry sedan and the TSX has picked up an increased role in that position with an increased share of sedan market within Acura. Also that was the best 3G and Acura year ever, only compared to the last full year of 4G sales, which is not necessarily it's best for a fairer comparison.
What we are seeing is the economic affect combined with a shift in the cars market (size, price points, and position) and the TSX is a part of it and that is why the TL is now a little short of most of the competitors in sales but when you look at total sedans sales rank, they actually do better now then they did 06, having the 4th best selling sedan line of all luxury brands where they used to be 5th, while still currently holding the 5th place in total sales. If the TL was that affected or doing that poorly by itself, Acura would not be holding these ranks right now.
Styling is very important, I agree, but it is all up to the individual to decide what looks good and there are quite a few people who think the TL looks great as well.
"It seems like the general sentiment is not that the 4G is a failure, at least not in the respect of sales. What it is a failure in is the ability to swoon most of the people who fell in love with the 3G. Had the styling and proportions been more universally appealing, I'm confident at least a couple hundred more people would have found themselves in a 4G each month since it's introduction."
This quote best sums up what is really going on with the TL IMO. It has failed to capture people in the same way but it is not a failure in most other respects especially from a sales perspective. We cant underrate or ignore the fact of just how much the economy is affecting sales of most vehicles and brands compared to a few years ago to make the car seem worse than it is.
Acura as a whole is selling half of what they did in 06 their last best selling, record setting year for the brand and the 3G TL. Sure enough in 09 they sold roughly half the number of TL's compred to 06 despite it being the 4G, and are not in any less of a position or sales rank now then they were at that time because most brands are down just the same. The TL is still the best selling Acura sedan making up 32% of total brand sales (so one in 3 Acuras sold is a TL) compared to 35% in 06 and it currently makes up 52% of the Acura sedan sales compared to 59% in 06 with the 3G.
A small drop off yes but largely in line considering the economy and the fact that the car has moved away from a typical entry sedan and the TSX has picked up an increased role in that position with an increased share of sedan market within Acura. Also that was the best 3G and Acura year ever, only compared to the last full year of 4G sales, which is not necessarily it's best for a fairer comparison.
What we are seeing is the economic affect combined with a shift in the cars market (size, price points, and position) and the TSX is a part of it and that is why the TL is now a little short of most of the competitors in sales but when you look at total sedans sales rank, they actually do better now then they did 06, having the 4th best selling sedan line of all luxury brands where they used to be 5th, while still currently holding the 5th place in total sales. If the TL was that affected or doing that poorly by itself, Acura would not be holding these ranks right now.
great analysis and all..but the bottom line is....the 4G TL is still butt ugly as heck and have lost alot of potential owners because of it, including me!
10-08-2010, 03:19 PM
#117
great analysis and all..but the bottom line is....the 4G TL is still butt ugly as heck and have lost alot of potential owners because of it, including me!
Based on the numbers and if it truly is as bad you guys say then Acura lost out on a car that was going to be a bigger hit than the 3G even in these times.
10-08-2010, 04:47 PM
#118
My first Avatar....
Well I am sure it is very esay to say they lost a sale because of the style but I am sure there are other reasons involved with the blame mostly being put more on the design whether that is the case or not.
Based on the numbers and if it truly is as bad you guys say then Acura lost out on a car that was going to be a bigger hit than the 3G even in these times.
Based on the numbers and if it truly is as bad you guys say then Acura lost out on a car that was going to be a bigger hit than the 3G even in these times.
10-08-2010, 06:03 PM
#119
And the TL was the first on my list, I have had 2 3G's and like the look of the 4G better, I don't see what either opinion means or what kind of definate conclusion it draws. The numbers prove it is in line with the 3G in face of the economy, anything more that it is losing out on is hard to represent by a bunch of opinions.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 10-08-2010 at 06:14 PM.
