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So what do we think about this brand new "hot hatch" from Hyundai? Personally I think it is a very strong effort from the brand and signifies that they are serious about taking on cars like the Focus RS, Civic Type R, and Golf R head on. The car looks good and has actual performance to match its racy accouterments with the 275 hp TT four cylinder and active exhaust etc. Priced at around $28k I think this car is a very good value in this space, certainly not reaching the pedigree of the more premium competitors, but providing a back-to-basics take on the hot hatch segment that is refreshing to see. So what do ya'll think?
The 3-door looks a lot better. Still not crazy about it. I guess the Honda fanboy in me is willing to overlook some of the CTR's gaudy aspects, as they're mostly fixable.
The price is certainly competitive. How does it drive though?
As far as I've read, it appears to perform pretty well (especially considering the value) compared to its competition. Its certainly not going to beat them in performance, but its close enough to be in the conversation. The interior is strictly econo-box and uninspiring, but that's to be expected since the focus of the car is performance-per-dollar. Personally I find the styling much nicer than the CTR (which is, in a word, overwrought to be kind) but obviously the Honda is a much more premium and refined animal with a more premium price to match. I dunno, I definitely give Hyundai credit for not half-assing this thing. Its got good power, good handling, and nice features like rev-matching 6MT (only comes with a stick) and an active exhaust that makes a nice sound.
I think the aesthetics are better than the 1G Veloster & the performance is actually there now (I seem to recall reading reports of the 1G feeling less powerful that was listed on paper).
The 3-door thing is still odd to me, I'd rather that they brought the Elantra (i30) N over as well.
I really like that Hyundai is doing this and keeping the hot hatch segment populated and alive, but I could not live with that interior as a daily driver.
I'm in love with i30N model which is the basically the same car with a different look. That model we don't get it in America unfortunately.
But yes, this car has been hyped up for a long time in Korea and Europe. It has been getting super good reviews from a lot of mainstream publications and it did beat out CTR in certain tracks in Europe.
The pricing point seems to be very great.
Interior is super plasticky but that's understandable at that price point with that much of performance. I would gut out everything and put Alcantara and leather all over though. haha
I definitely agree about the interior, it is unacceptably cheap looking in terms of materials and design. That said, they have to design a car like this to a price point and its definitely more important to spend what budget they do have on performance rather than on luxury appointments. I wouldn't be in the demographic for this car anyway because my priority skews more toward luxury than performance anyway, but younger enthusiasts looking for a hot hatch should absolutely be putting this car on their short list to at least take for a spin before putting down their down payment on a Civic Si or Golf GTi.
This is a really nice looking car. I would imagine if tuning is available it will be easy to get it to 300whp which would be a lot of fun. Definitely like the direction Hyundai is going.
I definitely agree about the interior, it is unacceptably cheap looking in terms of materials and design. That said, they have to design a car like this to a price point and its definitely more important to spend what budget they do have on performance rather than on luxury appointments. I wouldn't be in the demographic for this car anyway because my priority skews more toward luxury than performance anyway, but younger enthusiasts looking for a hot hatch should absolutely be putting this car on their short list to at least take for a spin before putting down their down payment on a Civic Si or Golf GTi.
FWIW, the Civic Si doesn't hold a candle to the GTI, Focus ST, or (I'm assuming at least) this car.
That said, I like this thing a lot and hope to see even hotter versions of it coming soon. Also, why can't it just have 4 normal doors like the i30N?
FWIW, the Civic Si doesn't hold a candle to the GTI, Focus ST, or (I'm assuming at least) this car.
That said, I like this thing a lot and hope to see even hotter versions of it coming soon. Also, why can't it just have 4 normal doors like the i30N?
Really!? What's wrong with Si? It's pretty much even with GTi in terms of overall performance. It does have a lot more standard amenities than GTi even though it's a couple of thousands less than a base GTi.
Really!? What's wrong with Si? It's pretty much even with GTi in terms of overall performance. It does have a lot more standard amenities than GTi even though it's a couple of thousands less than a base GTi.
The Civic Si is not even remotely close to the GTI in terms of performance. The GTI will eat the Civic's lunch every day of the week in both a straight line and a track. Yes the Civic is lighter but it's also down 15hp and (more importantly) 66ftlbs of torque which is more than enough to offset the weight penalty. Also, the GTI is much faster, nicer to drive, has a better ride, a FAR better interior, an automatic if you want it, more features, more safety gadgets, AND (!) a volume knob. Also it's a hatchback which, as we all know, is better than a sedan/coupe. Why Honda chose not to offer the Si in the already existing hatch version of the same car is beyond me.
I test drove both when looking back in April and the Si is/was a gutless wonder. Good fun to drive around town but once you got on the highway, it had absolutely no juice. The GTI was every bit as good in the city and had the torque to do whatever you wanted on the highway.
Hatchback is better than sedan is purely subjective and anecdotal. I don’t disagree with your assessment. But judging by sales numbers, the rest of North America disagrees with you.
This is why honda killed the hatchback civic and has always kept the coupe. This is why Subaru killed the hatchback STi and only kept the sedan. Etc, etc.
Hatchback is better than sedan is purely subjective and anecdotal. I don’t disagree with your assessment. But judging by sales numbers, the rest of North America disagrees with you.
This is why honda killed the hatchback civic and has always kept the coupe. This is why Subaru killed the hatchback STi and only kept the sedan. Etc, etc.
That we all know hatch is better was said kind of in jest but also kind of in truth. My point was that the Si model is a trim level and if it's already offered in Sedan and Coupe...why not the hatch?
Honda didn't kill the hatchback Civic, it's still very much on sale...
Yes, you are right. I keep forgetting about the current hatchback. Mostly because it looks the same as the rest of the civics. Is the CTR a sedan or hatchback? Maybe that’s why the Si only comes in coupe form?
It was was the same thing in the early 90s. The Si came in hatch form from 92-93. In 94-95 they switched it to a coupe only. Yet they still made the hatchback for the lower trims. I’m guessing it just comes down to sales numbers.
The Civic Si is not even remotely close to the GTI in terms of performance. The GTI will eat the Civic's lunch every day of the week in both a straight line and a track. Yes the Civic is lighter but it's also down 15hp and (more importantly) 66ftlbs of torque which is more than enough to offset the weight penalty. Also, the GTI is much faster, nicer to drive, has a better ride, a FAR better interior, an automatic if you want it, more features, more safety gadgets, AND (!) a volume knob. Also it's a hatchback which, as we all know, is better than a sedan/coupe. Why Honda chose not to offer the Si in the already existing hatch version of the same car is beyond me.
I test drove both when looking back in April and the Si is/was a gutless wonder. Good fun to drive around town but once you got on the highway, it had absolutely no juice. The GTI was every bit as good in the city and had the torque to do whatever you wanted on the highway.
I've been actually in the market to pick up 17 GTI Sport for awhile and have been cross shopping it with new Civic Si. So did test drive both a lot both stock and modified.
You make it sound like GTi so much better than Si, but it really isn't. Performance wise, I would say pretty much the same. The driving feel, brake feel, handling feel, driving position, all better in Si. The GTi feels numb compared to the Si. The chassis definitely feels better. The interior is refined in a GTi but I always found GTi interior to be a bit boring and bland. Love the Si layout.
The C&D comparison is between Si and loaded GTi. The pricing difference between the two is $7K which is insane for these little cheap pocket rockets.The S trim GTi should be compared to the Si which looks god awful with the halogen headlights.. For the price, the Si is a much better car.
But I'm leaning toward 17 GTi just because it's the only fun daily with auto. Wife can use the car when needed. Low miles, 2 year old ones are $20k. These are really good deals.
I think Honda didn't make Si Hatchback to not cannibalize CTR sale. And Hatchback is made in UK, sedan and coupe aren't. Different factories.
I actually really like the current Civic Si. I wish it had more power and a bit more features available, but I think it looks good, performs well enough, and still has one of the best 6MT's on the market. I bought a brand new 2006 Civic Si back in the spring of that year and absolutely loved that car. It was pretty gutless in terms of torque but at 8k rpm it really gave you a nice rush. Personally I much prefer the styling of coupes to hatchbacks like the GTi, but the VW is definitely the more substantial car overall. Its designed to a higher price point and stuff like interior refinement shows that off. I think Honda did the right thing with the Si in giving it a turbo 4 that is tuned for more low end torque than Si's have ever had before, but I do miss the era of 8k rpm screamers like my old Si. If I had my way Honda would narrow the performance gap a bit between the CTR and the Si, perhaps slapping the Accord 2.0t engine in it rather than the 1.5 liter. That alone would make the Si a much more compelling offering in the hot hatch class...
I've been actually in the market to pick up 17 GTI Sport for awhile and have been cross shopping it with new Civic Si. So did test drive both a lot both stock and modified.
You make it sound like GTi so much better than Si, but it really isn't. Performance wise, I would say pretty much the same. The driving feel, brake feel, handling feel, driving position, all better in Si. The GTi feels numb compared to the Si. The chassis definitely feels better. The interior is refined in a GTi but I always found GTi interior to be a bit boring and bland. Love the Si layout.
The C&D comparison is between Si and loaded GTi. The pricing difference between the two is $7K which is insane for these little cheap pocket rockets.The S trim GTi should be compared to the Si which looks god awful with the halogen headlights.. For the price, the Si is a much better car.
But I'm leaning toward 17 GTi just because it's the only fun daily with auto. Wife can use the car when needed. Low miles, 2 year old ones are $20k. These are really good deals.
I think Honda didn't make Si Hatchback to not cannibalize CTR sale. And Hatchback is made in UK, sedan and coupe aren't. Different factories.
I make the GTI sound so much better because it is. It objectively has more power, more torque, faster to 60, faster in the 1/4 mile, same grip rating, etc. It's not my opinion that it performs better, it really does. Driving feel of the Si is more tossable yes, but the GTI just feels so much more refined and planted than the Si does. The cost gap is one of those that you sit in the car and immediately realize where your money went. The interior is much higher quality and built better, it's solid as a rock compared to the Honda. No matter how you cut it, they don't make Hondas like they used to. The interior in my S2k is rock solid but a newer Honda is far more cheap and you can tell where the cost cutting went. Even if you go with the GTI S trim, it has all the same go fast bits as the higher end models. If you don't want it, get a different one and pay more but the performance doesn't change. The other downside is you can't get the additional features on the Si even if you want them.
I'm not sure it would cannibalize sales between the CTR and Si if it went hatchback. They sit at vastly different price points. The high end GTI Autobahn is quite close to the Golf R in price and absolutely cannibalizes sales but here we are. The people that buy the R or the CTR are buying it for a reason, and saving money isn't that reason.
That said, the WRX also comes in auto. Just as a reminder.
Originally Posted by majin ssj eric
I actually really like the current Civic Si. I wish it had more power and a bit more features available, but I think it looks good, performs well enough, and still has one of the best 6MT's on the market. I bought a brand new 2006 Civic Si back in the spring of that year and absolutely loved that car. It was pretty gutless in terms of torque but at 8k rpm it really gave you a nice rush. Personally I much prefer the styling of coupes to hatchbacks like the GTi, but the VW is definitely the more substantial car overall. Its designed to a higher price point and stuff like interior refinement shows that off. I think Honda did the right thing with the Si in giving it a turbo 4 that is tuned for more low end torque than Si's have ever had before, but I do miss the era of 8k rpm screamers like my old Si. If I had my way Honda would narrow the performance gap a bit between the CTR and the Si, perhaps slapping the Accord 2.0t engine in it rather than the 1.5 liter. That alone would make the Si a much more compelling offering in the hot hatch class...
That's the thing though. The older Hondas had that character of revving the nuts off of it to get the performance. It was (or is depending on your situation) an occasion to wind it up and hear it scream, it was the hallmark of their cars. The new 1.5T is just not that special. You get a nice squirt of torque off the line and then it's immediately out of breath and when you rev it higher, it only gets worse. I'm not suggesting they go back to the torqueless wonders of before but I agree that putting the Accord motor in the Si would be much better fit than the one that's in there.
I make the GTI sound so much better because it is. It objectively has more power, more torque, faster to 60, faster in the 1/4 mile, same grip rating, etc. It's not my opinion that it performs better, it really does. Driving feel of the Si is more tossable yes, but the GTI just feels so much more refined and planted than the Si does. The cost gap is one of those that you sit in the car and immediately realize where your money went. The interior is much higher quality and built better, it's solid as a rock compared to the Honda. No matter how you cut it, they don't make Hondas like they used to. The interior in my S2k is rock solid but a newer Honda is far more cheap and you can tell where the cost cutting went. Even if you go with the GTI S trim, it has all the same go fast bits as the higher end models. If you don't want it, get a different one and pay more but the performance doesn't change. The other downside is you can't get the additional features on the Si even if you want them.
Will just have to agree to disagree. Don't think both us will change the opinion at this point. haha
I worked on over 100 VA WRX/STi. I do not like the car at all. The STi, maybe. WRX? No, it drives very boring. It's like a fast Camry. I'm ONLY considering GTi just because of the availability of the lovely DSG. That's it. It's not even that fun to drive, pretty much dumb to track. But with two young kids, I don't think I will have any time to go out to the track, that's why I'm okay with getting this car for a few years. Otherwise, I would have just gone with the 17 BRZ. Wish I can find a freaking CW CTR at the sticker but that seems like an impossible buy still.
Back to the point of this thread, I can't wait to test drive this Veloster N! I would have been seriously interested if we got the actual i30N, but not I can't rock this look.
Will just have to agree to disagree. Don't think both us will change the opinion at this point. haha
I worked on over 100 VA WRX/STi. I do not like the car at all. The STi, maybe. WRX? No, it drives very boring. It's like a fast Camry. I'm ONLY considering GTi just because of the availability of the lovely DSG. That's it. It's not even that fun to drive, pretty much dumb to track. But with two young kids, I don't think I will have any time to go out to the track, that's why I'm okay with getting this car for a few years. Otherwise, I would have just gone with the 17 BRZ. Wish I can find a freaking CW CTR at the sticker but that seems like an impossible buy still.
Back to the point of this thread, I can't wait to test drive this Veloster N! I would have been seriously interested if we got the actual i30N, but not I can't rock this look.
lol sounds good. You can always buy the Si and just have the wife learn how to drive it...
Also, you can still find the CTR in white for sticker. You'll just have to travel for it. This is how I got such a good deal on the Golf when the dealers around me were marking up.
lol sounds good. You can always buy the Si and just have the wife learn how to drive it...
Also, you can still find the CTR in white for sticker. You'll just have to travel for it. This is how I got such a good deal on the Golf when the dealers around me were marking up.
I thought about it when I had my BRZ but she didn't want to. So I don't think she would want to now. hahahaha
Those dealers, if you call and ask for the car, they add the markup on top.
I had a broker friend of mine look for a white one for almost six months already. All other colors are at the sticker, some red ones are even discounted sometimes. But the white ones are just... impossible.
Wow Veloster N putting out some impressive numbers in this test.
C/D TEST RESULTS
Zero to 60 mph: 5.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.3 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 26.8 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 5.8 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 7.2 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 6.5 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.9 sec @ 102 mph
Top speed (governor limited, mfr’s claim): 155 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 154 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.97 g
I thought about it when I had my BRZ but she didn't want to. So I don't think she would want to now. hahahaha
Those dealers, if you call and ask for the car, they add the markup on top.
I had a broker friend of mine look for a white one for almost six months already. All other colors are at the sticker, some red ones are even discounted sometimes. But the white ones are just... impossible.
That was a while ago and now with the model year wrapping up, they might be able to make it work now.
Also, for the one by me, they are a "no haggle" dealership so the price is the price. There shouldn't be a markup on top of it but I guess I haven't looked into it that far. If you do contact them and work it out, I'd be happy to help you out from here.
The CTR just isn't that popular around here so I'm not surprised to see it at sticker.
That was a while ago and now with the model year wrapping up, they might be able to make it work now.
Also, for the one by me, they are a "no haggle" dealership so the price is the price. There shouldn't be a markup on top of it but I guess I haven't looked into it that far. If you do contact them and work it out, I'd be happy to help you out from here.
The CTR just isn't that popular around here so I'm not surprised to see it at sticker.
Heh, not surprising. Geographic/cultural difference/preference. People probably wouldn't want to be caught dead in a car like that in certain parts of the country, lol
Now california is a diff story....so looks like if you're willing to travel, deals can be had
That was a while ago and now with the model year wrapping up, they might be able to make it work now.
Also, for the one by me, they are a "no haggle" dealership so the price is the price. There shouldn't be a markup on top of it but I guess I haven't looked into it that far. If you do contact them and work it out, I'd be happy to help you out from here.
The CTR just isn't that popular around here so I'm not surprised to see it at sticker.
Heh, not surprising. Geographic/cultural difference/preference. People probably wouldn't want to be caught dead in a car like that in certain parts of the country, lol
Now california is a diff story....so looks like if you're willing to travel, deals can be had
Right. A car like the CTR just doesn't fit in around here. Hot hatches in general don't go for more than sticker in these parts but you also won't find much of a discount due to lack of inventory in general. Now a Ford F150 King Ranch though...
10-30-2018, 12:09 AM
