Toyota: Recall News
01-27-2010, 07:08 PM
#161
Honda Fanboy
slow down abruptly That's rich!
You need to understand that EVERY automaker does and will do the same thing Toyota is doing. It's called damage control.
Nobody is sugar coating everything.
Start reading up on the facts....there are plenty in this thread.
Put your conspiracy theories of Toyota aside....they are unfounded.
01-27-2010, 08:03 PM
#162
Safety Car
Update
Following Toyota’s initial recall of 3.8 million vehicles in late 2009 for unintended acceleration, the Japanese automaker released a statement claiming “that no defect exists in vehicles in which the driver’s floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured.” That statement has been proven to be false, with the automaker halting sales and production of 8 models.
Although Toyota’s PR department has spun the situation to imply the company stopped sales and production of vehicle affected on its own accord, David Strickland, administrator of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, has revealed Toyota was legally obligated to stop selling models involved in the company’s latest recall.
NHTSA provides clarification behind Toyota’s latest stoppage of production and sales of 8 new models
Strickland labeled Toyota’s decision as the “legally and morally correct thing to do,” according to The Detroit News.
According to Chapter 301 of the Motor Safety Code, Toyota cannot legally sell the defective vehicles until it has a remedy.
Although Toyota is now following the letter of the law, the company was slow to react on its latest recall of 2.3 million vehicles. Per the rules and regulations of the NHTSA, Toyota should have immediately stopped sales of vehicles involved in the recall, but continued to sell potentially faulty vehicles for another 5 days.
The fallout goes beyond new car sales
Now, the fallout from this massive recall and halting of both production and sales of half of Toyota’s lineup is being felt nationwide in several industries – not just new car sales. Reports are coming in that every major car rental company, including Hertz, Alamo, Enterprise, National and Avis-Budget Group have pulled the Toyota models from their rental fleets. This sudden decrease in fleet size will almost certainly create shortages at some locations, particularly those reliant on the Toyota Camry or Corolla models.
“In light of the safety concerns being raised about Toyota vehicles, we are taking the precaution of removing all of the approximately 20,000 cars that Toyota has identified for recall from our fleet in the United States, Canada and Puerto Rico,” said an Avis-Budget representative.
Possible solutions to the problem
With millions of vehicles already on the road requiring new accelerator pedals, and hundreds of thousands more already produced and awaiting sale in need of the same repair, Toyota must find a way, and quickly, to repair the defective gas pedal assemblies.
The actual parts at fault were produced by CTS Corp., based in Elkhart, Indiana – and not the interchangeable parts from Toyota’s other supplier, Denso. According to an analysis by Inside Line, Toyota’s joint-use of Denso and CTS Corp. is what enabled Toyota to only be recalling certain models, and no Lexus or Scion models. Essentially, vehicles produced in the U.S. made use of local supplier CTS Corp., where vehicles coming from Japan used the parts supplied by Japan-based Denso – for nothing other than simple cost reasons.
The solution lies in a possible combination of a fixed part being produced by CTS Corp., which Toyota reportedly has already developed, along with the possibility of importing additional parts from Denso to help speed up the replacement process. Toyota’s biggest problem lies in the fact that neither of these companies currently holds the necessary capacity to produce the number of pedals Toyota will need in a yearly basis – let alone in a rushed few weeks.
This leaves Toyota with the need to potentially look outside of its current suppliers to outsource rushed production of the replacement parts, or face a potentially prolonged sales and production freeze.
What will the lasting effects of this recall be for the automotive giant?
Although the total long-term fallout from Toyota’s 8 model, 6.6 million unit recall mess remains to be seen, the outlook does not look good. Toyota was once the pillar of reliability and quality, but now appears to be struggling under the strain of becoming the world’s largest automaker. Toyota was optimistic it could increase sales by 6 percent this year, but that goal will be difficult given U.S. Toyota dealers have virtually no products to sell.
Although Toyota’s PR department has spun the situation to imply the company stopped sales and production of vehicle affected on its own accord, David Strickland, administrator of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, has revealed Toyota was legally obligated to stop selling models involved in the company’s latest recall.
NHTSA provides clarification behind Toyota’s latest stoppage of production and sales of 8 new models
Strickland labeled Toyota’s decision as the “legally and morally correct thing to do,” according to The Detroit News.
According to Chapter 301 of the Motor Safety Code, Toyota cannot legally sell the defective vehicles until it has a remedy.
Although Toyota is now following the letter of the law, the company was slow to react on its latest recall of 2.3 million vehicles. Per the rules and regulations of the NHTSA, Toyota should have immediately stopped sales of vehicles involved in the recall, but continued to sell potentially faulty vehicles for another 5 days.
The fallout goes beyond new car sales
Now, the fallout from this massive recall and halting of both production and sales of half of Toyota’s lineup is being felt nationwide in several industries – not just new car sales. Reports are coming in that every major car rental company, including Hertz, Alamo, Enterprise, National and Avis-Budget Group have pulled the Toyota models from their rental fleets. This sudden decrease in fleet size will almost certainly create shortages at some locations, particularly those reliant on the Toyota Camry or Corolla models.
“In light of the safety concerns being raised about Toyota vehicles, we are taking the precaution of removing all of the approximately 20,000 cars that Toyota has identified for recall from our fleet in the United States, Canada and Puerto Rico,” said an Avis-Budget representative.
Possible solutions to the problem
With millions of vehicles already on the road requiring new accelerator pedals, and hundreds of thousands more already produced and awaiting sale in need of the same repair, Toyota must find a way, and quickly, to repair the defective gas pedal assemblies.
The actual parts at fault were produced by CTS Corp., based in Elkhart, Indiana – and not the interchangeable parts from Toyota’s other supplier, Denso. According to an analysis by Inside Line, Toyota’s joint-use of Denso and CTS Corp. is what enabled Toyota to only be recalling certain models, and no Lexus or Scion models. Essentially, vehicles produced in the U.S. made use of local supplier CTS Corp., where vehicles coming from Japan used the parts supplied by Japan-based Denso – for nothing other than simple cost reasons.
The solution lies in a possible combination of a fixed part being produced by CTS Corp., which Toyota reportedly has already developed, along with the possibility of importing additional parts from Denso to help speed up the replacement process. Toyota’s biggest problem lies in the fact that neither of these companies currently holds the necessary capacity to produce the number of pedals Toyota will need in a yearly basis – let alone in a rushed few weeks.
This leaves Toyota with the need to potentially look outside of its current suppliers to outsource rushed production of the replacement parts, or face a potentially prolonged sales and production freeze.
What will the lasting effects of this recall be for the automotive giant?
Although the total long-term fallout from Toyota’s 8 model, 6.6 million unit recall mess remains to be seen, the outlook does not look good. Toyota was once the pillar of reliability and quality, but now appears to be struggling under the strain of becoming the world’s largest automaker. Toyota was optimistic it could increase sales by 6 percent this year, but that goal will be difficult given U.S. Toyota dealers have virtually no products to sell.
01-27-2010, 08:04 PM
#163
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
fucking pwned you liars.
01-27-2010, 08:09 PM
#164
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
I can't believe how many times they tried to fool the consumers.
01-27-2010, 08:13 PM
#165
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
I mean this whole thing was fine with me in the beginning as I loved all their products and their ex-business ethics of going all green and shit. Not to mention their exceptionally efficient & bullet proof trouble-free engines they've been building.
BUT the very fact that they've been trying to cover up the entire situation by tricking the consumers is just unacceptable.
BUT the very fact that they've been trying to cover up the entire situation by tricking the consumers is just unacceptable.
01-27-2010, 09:10 PM
#166
Senior Moderator
The pedal assembly is built by CTS....it contains the pedal and electronics...it's one unit.....just like most mfg. drive-by-wire pedal assemblies.
Are you saying that Toyota makes the sensors and supplies the elec. sensors to CTS, and CTS installs them into the drive-by-wire pedal assembly?
Are you saying that Toyota makes the sensors and supplies the elec. sensors to CTS, and CTS installs them into the drive-by-wire pedal assembly?
Is the sensor failing, and if so, why? If something is getting shorted, Toyota's responsible for integration.
Were the sensors installed properly? Toyota's deal again since they install them (to the best of my knowledge).
Were some sensors supplied that were defective in some way (from CTS or another supplier)? Then the blame would probably fall on them.
If it's software related, then Toyota might be held responsible (if they were negligent). Software can fail, regardless of how many times it's been tested.
Last edited by West6MT; 01-27-2010 at 09:12 PM.
for you....My failures were sudden.
01-27-2010, 09:20 PM
#168
I'm the Firestarter
I honestly doubt it's a case of "they knew it and didn't want to fix it". If this problem only affected a handful of customers out of millions of vehicles, it's obviously extremely difficult to reproduce. If it was a simple software issue they would have fixed it long ago for cheap. I think they have no clue what causes it. I wonder if the cases of "unintended acceleration" will actually go down after all these recalls.
01-27-2010, 09:44 PM
#169
Senior Moderator
I honestly doubt it's a case of "they knew it and didn't want to fix it". If this problem only affected a handful of customers out of millions of vehicles, it's obviously extremely difficult to reproduce. If it was a simple software issue they would have fixed it long ago for cheap. I think they have no clue what causes it. I wonder if the cases of "unintended acceleration" will actually go down after all these recalls.
Maybe they don't really know, as you said.
In any event, whatever the cause, Toyota is going to suffer somewhat from all of this.
Last edited by West6MT; 01-27-2010 at 09:48 PM.
01-27-2010, 10:20 PM
#170
Honda Fanboy
Toyota recalls more vehicles in US over floor mat
Eds: ADDS comments from Toyota.
TOKYO (AP) — Toyota Motor Corp. says it will recall an additional 1.09 million vehicles in the United States over floor mat problems.
Toyota said Thursday the fresh recall would affect five models — 2008-2010 Highlander, 2009-2010 Corolla, 2009-2010 Venza, 2009-2010 Matrix, and 2009-2010 Pontiac Vibe.
Toyota spokesman Hideaki Homma said Toyota decided to recall more vehicles due to the risk of accelerator pedals becoming stuck in the mats. Toyota has already recalled 4.26 million vehicles in the U.S. over such problems.
Eds: ADDS comments from Toyota.
TOKYO (AP) — Toyota Motor Corp. says it will recall an additional 1.09 million vehicles in the United States over floor mat problems.
Toyota said Thursday the fresh recall would affect five models — 2008-2010 Highlander, 2009-2010 Corolla, 2009-2010 Venza, 2009-2010 Matrix, and 2009-2010 Pontiac Vibe.
Toyota spokesman Hideaki Homma said Toyota decided to recall more vehicles due to the risk of accelerator pedals becoming stuck in the mats. Toyota has already recalled 4.26 million vehicles in the U.S. over such problems.
Last edited by VTEC Racer; 01-27-2010 at 10:23 PM.
01-28-2010, 07:52 AM
#171
Safety Car
Another 1.1 Million
If you need to announce another recall around the same time a controversial president is making his highly anticipated State of the Union address, you probably won't curse that particular luck. That is exactly what Toyota felt it needed to do, revealing yesterday evening that it's recalling a further 1.1 million cars to fix "pedal entrapment problems" caused by floor mats.
This action is tied to Toyota's largest recall ever last year of 4.26 million cars for the same issue, but is different than the recall of 2.3 million cars for a sticking accelerator announced last week. The new models in question are:
This action is tied to Toyota's largest recall ever last year of 4.26 million cars for the same issue, but is different than the recall of 2.3 million cars for a sticking accelerator announced last week. The new models in question are:
* 2008-2010 Highlander
* 2009-2010 Corolla
* 2009-2010 Venza
* 2009-2010 Matrix
* 2009-2010 Pontiac Vibe
Toyota reportedly has a number of fixes planned for all of the issues. Now it will just want the time to be able to focus on fixing them, without any more surprises.* 2009-2010 Corolla
* 2009-2010 Venza
* 2009-2010 Matrix
* 2009-2010 Pontiac Vibe
01-28-2010, 08:02 AM
#172
Senior Moderator
Following Toyota’s initial recall of 3.8 million vehicles in late 2009 for unintended acceleration, the Japanese automaker released a statement claiming “that no defect exists in vehicles in which the driver’s floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured.” That statement has been proven to be false, with the automaker halting sales and production of 8 models.
Although Toyota’s PR department has spun the situation to imply the company stopped sales and production of vehicle affected on its own accord, David Strickland, administrator of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, has revealed Toyota was legally obligated to stop selling models involved in the company’s latest recall.
NHTSA provides clarification behind Toyota’s latest stoppage of production and sales of 8 new models
Strickland labeled Toyota’s decision as the “legally and morally correct thing to do,” according to The Detroit News.
According to Chapter 301 of the Motor Safety Code, Toyota cannot legally sell the defective vehicles until it has a remedy.
Although Toyota is now following the letter of the law, the company was slow to react on its latest recall of 2.3 million vehicles. Per the rules and regulations of the NHTSA, Toyota should have immediately stopped sales of vehicles involved in the recall, but continued to sell potentially faulty vehicles for another 5 days.
The fallout goes beyond new car sales
Now, the fallout from this massive recall and halting of both production and sales of half of Toyota’s lineup is being felt nationwide in several industries – not just new car sales. Reports are coming in that every major car rental company, including Hertz, Alamo, Enterprise, National and Avis-Budget Group have pulled the Toyota models from their rental fleets. This sudden decrease in fleet size will almost certainly create shortages at some locations, particularly those reliant on the Toyota Camry or Corolla models.
“In light of the safety concerns being raised about Toyota vehicles, we are taking the precaution of removing all of the approximately 20,000 cars that Toyota has identified for recall from our fleet in the United States, Canada and Puerto Rico,” said an Avis-Budget representative.
Possible solutions to the problem
With millions of vehicles already on the road requiring new accelerator pedals, and hundreds of thousands more already produced and awaiting sale in need of the same repair, Toyota must find a way, and quickly, to repair the defective gas pedal assemblies.
The actual parts at fault were produced by CTS Corp., based in Elkhart, Indiana – and not the interchangeable parts from Toyota’s other supplier, Denso. According to an analysis by Inside Line, Toyota’s joint-use of Denso and CTS Corp. is what enabled Toyota to only be recalling certain models, and no Lexus or Scion models. Essentially, vehicles produced in the U.S. made use of local supplier CTS Corp., where vehicles coming from Japan used the parts supplied by Japan-based Denso – for nothing other than simple cost reasons.
The solution lies in a possible combination of a fixed part being produced by CTS Corp., which Toyota reportedly has already developed, along with the possibility of importing additional parts from Denso to help speed up the replacement process. Toyota’s biggest problem lies in the fact that neither of these companies currently holds the necessary capacity to produce the number of pedals Toyota will need in a yearly basis – let alone in a rushed few weeks.
This leaves Toyota with the need to potentially look outside of its current suppliers to outsource rushed production of the replacement parts, or face a potentially prolonged sales and production freeze.
What will the lasting effects of this recall be for the automotive giant?
Although the total long-term fallout from Toyota’s 8 model, 6.6 million unit recall mess remains to be seen, the outlook does not look good. Toyota was once the pillar of reliability and quality, but now appears to be struggling under the strain of becoming the world’s largest automaker. Toyota was optimistic it could increase sales by 6 percent this year, but that goal will be difficult given U.S. Toyota dealers have virtually no products to sell.
Although Toyota’s PR department has spun the situation to imply the company stopped sales and production of vehicle affected on its own accord, David Strickland, administrator of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, has revealed Toyota was legally obligated to stop selling models involved in the company’s latest recall.
NHTSA provides clarification behind Toyota’s latest stoppage of production and sales of 8 new models
Strickland labeled Toyota’s decision as the “legally and morally correct thing to do,” according to The Detroit News.
According to Chapter 301 of the Motor Safety Code, Toyota cannot legally sell the defective vehicles until it has a remedy.
Although Toyota is now following the letter of the law, the company was slow to react on its latest recall of 2.3 million vehicles. Per the rules and regulations of the NHTSA, Toyota should have immediately stopped sales of vehicles involved in the recall, but continued to sell potentially faulty vehicles for another 5 days.
The fallout goes beyond new car sales
Now, the fallout from this massive recall and halting of both production and sales of half of Toyota’s lineup is being felt nationwide in several industries – not just new car sales. Reports are coming in that every major car rental company, including Hertz, Alamo, Enterprise, National and Avis-Budget Group have pulled the Toyota models from their rental fleets. This sudden decrease in fleet size will almost certainly create shortages at some locations, particularly those reliant on the Toyota Camry or Corolla models.
“In light of the safety concerns being raised about Toyota vehicles, we are taking the precaution of removing all of the approximately 20,000 cars that Toyota has identified for recall from our fleet in the United States, Canada and Puerto Rico,” said an Avis-Budget representative.
Possible solutions to the problem
With millions of vehicles already on the road requiring new accelerator pedals, and hundreds of thousands more already produced and awaiting sale in need of the same repair, Toyota must find a way, and quickly, to repair the defective gas pedal assemblies.
The actual parts at fault were produced by CTS Corp., based in Elkhart, Indiana – and not the interchangeable parts from Toyota’s other supplier, Denso. According to an analysis by Inside Line, Toyota’s joint-use of Denso and CTS Corp. is what enabled Toyota to only be recalling certain models, and no Lexus or Scion models. Essentially, vehicles produced in the U.S. made use of local supplier CTS Corp., where vehicles coming from Japan used the parts supplied by Japan-based Denso – for nothing other than simple cost reasons.
The solution lies in a possible combination of a fixed part being produced by CTS Corp., which Toyota reportedly has already developed, along with the possibility of importing additional parts from Denso to help speed up the replacement process. Toyota’s biggest problem lies in the fact that neither of these companies currently holds the necessary capacity to produce the number of pedals Toyota will need in a yearly basis – let alone in a rushed few weeks.
This leaves Toyota with the need to potentially look outside of its current suppliers to outsource rushed production of the replacement parts, or face a potentially prolonged sales and production freeze.
What will the lasting effects of this recall be for the automotive giant?
Although the total long-term fallout from Toyota’s 8 model, 6.6 million unit recall mess remains to be seen, the outlook does not look good. Toyota was once the pillar of reliability and quality, but now appears to be struggling under the strain of becoming the world’s largest automaker. Toyota was optimistic it could increase sales by 6 percent this year, but that goal will be difficult given U.S. Toyota dealers have virtually no products to sell.
01-28-2010, 09:10 AM
#173
Senior Moderator
Good question.
01-28-2010, 09:43 AM
#174
Trolling Canuckistan
Because they have floor mats and this is a simple floor mat issue. Nothing to see here, move along and stop spreading your wild conspiracy theories.
01-28-2010, 10:10 AM
#175
01-28-2010, 10:13 AM
#176
Man Toyota is f***ed. The first thing I see when I check into Ramblings today is the headline "Short Toyota?" as the last post in Money & Investing.
"Sell, Mortimer, SELL!"
"Sell, Mortimer, SELL!"
01-28-2010, 10:38 AM
#177
The sizzle in the Steak
There is damage control and then there is ignoring the safety of millions of people. Toyota CLEARLY stated that they knew about the problem. These are the facts. If you can't deal with it, then just get out. Put your personal vendettas and emotions aside. These are peoples lives we are talking about here.
Sure they knew about it. They admitted that. Every carmaker that recalls knows about the problem way in advance.
It takes a lot of time to recall the vehicles. Sometimes carmakers will do the recall on their own, while other times the NHTSA will force the recall.
All carmakers look at the percentage of vehicles that are exhibiting the problem, and go from there. You do realize that there are known defects in cars that injur and/or kill people all the time, and yet no recalls.
It's not like 10's or 100's of thousands or even millions of Toyota vehicles are flying down the road out of control. It's a very, very small percentage of the totall vehicles recalled. Sure, they all have the potential to fail if the have the defective pedal, but it's not a for sure danger. Hence why the vehicles are recalled, but Toyota has not told its customers not to drive the vehicles.
There was no way a year ago ANY carmaker, let alone Toyota would take millions of vehicles off the road by telling the customer not to drive it, and then also tell the customer "Stay tuned, until we figure out how to fix it...because we don't know what is wrong with unintended acceleration."
Recalls and fixes take time. If Toyota is found negligent, then it will all come out in the wash. As of now, the NHTSA has not found any wrong doing on the part of Toyota.
01-28-2010, 01:45 PM
#178
The sizzle in the Steak
CTS: Don't throw us under the bus!
CTS Corporation, the Indiana-based supplier of accelerator pedals blamed for Toyota’s massive – and growing – recall, says that it was building the pedals to the automaker’s standards and that responsibility for the allegedly faulty part lies on Toyota.
Mitchell Walorski, head of the supplier’s investor relations department, told Automotive News that CTS is assisting Toyota, “but this is their recall. Toyota is heavily involved in all stages of testing and production. That is why their quality is so high.”
“The newly designed pedal is now tested, and parts are beginning to ship to some Toyota factories,” CTS said in a statement released to the media. Toyota says it has not decided if it will ship the new pedals to dealers to have them installed in unsold inventory and customer cars or if service departments will modify the existing design.
Elkhart, Indiana-based CTS began producing the pedals last year at its Mississauga, Ontario, assembly plant when Denso was unable to supply enough for Toyota.
CTS isn’t taking the blame for crashes involving Toyota vehicles, however.
“We are aware of fewer than a dozen instances where this condition has occurred, and in no instance did the accelerator actually become stuck in a partially depressed condition,” the company said in a statement.
CTS builds pedals for a number of automakers, each based on a different design. The company says that the Ford pedals it builds in China for that market’s Transit Classic large truck is of a different design.
Toyota has separately recalled many of its models over floor mats which the automaker says can become lodged against the gas pedal or which prevent the brake pedal from operating
Mitchell Walorski, head of the supplier’s investor relations department, told Automotive News that CTS is assisting Toyota, “but this is their recall. Toyota is heavily involved in all stages of testing and production. That is why their quality is so high.”
“The newly designed pedal is now tested, and parts are beginning to ship to some Toyota factories,” CTS said in a statement released to the media. Toyota says it has not decided if it will ship the new pedals to dealers to have them installed in unsold inventory and customer cars or if service departments will modify the existing design.
Elkhart, Indiana-based CTS began producing the pedals last year at its Mississauga, Ontario, assembly plant when Denso was unable to supply enough for Toyota.
CTS isn’t taking the blame for crashes involving Toyota vehicles, however.
“We are aware of fewer than a dozen instances where this condition has occurred, and in no instance did the accelerator actually become stuck in a partially depressed condition,” the company said in a statement.
CTS builds pedals for a number of automakers, each based on a different design. The company says that the Ford pedals it builds in China for that market’s Transit Classic large truck is of a different design.
Toyota has separately recalled many of its models over floor mats which the automaker says can become lodged against the gas pedal or which prevent the brake pedal from operating
:gheyfight:
CTS says their pedal is per spec....why design and build a new one?
Toyota says the pedal is not up to spec...is the new pedal a different design or is it the Denso design?.....but then again the CTS design was supposed to be the same as Denso.
Everyone is ducking for cover!!
01-28-2010, 03:16 PM
#179
Safety Car
It Just Never Ends
From the "This story just keeps getting uglier" department comes a new bit of information concerning Toyota and its growing sticky pedal problem. The Detroit Free Press is reporting that Toyota and the National Highway Safety Traffic Administration were looking into the problem back in 2004, but an interesting twist led the investigation down a path that ultimately turned up nothing.
The Freep says that this early investigation was strictly limited to incidents of unintended acceleration lasting one second or less, which strikes us as odd considering prolonged periods unintended acceleration are a lot more dangerous than a blip of the throttle. And this is where the story gets a bit tricky. The Freep reports that a 2008 lawsuit stemming from an alleged unintended acceleration-related death of a woman driving a 2005 Camry says that the decision was made to limit the investigation right after a former NHTSA employee, Christopher Santucci, took a job with Toyota.
The lawsuit alleges that the new Toyota employee negotiated a deal with his former coworkers at NHTSA to limit the investigation of unintended acceleration claims to instances of one second or less. Santucci said in a deposition that the NHTSA investigation involved 2002 and 2003 Toyota Camry, Solaras and Lexus ES300 models. NHTSA had reportedly received 139 complaints in the 2004 investigation, but found no defects.
Now that Toyota has officially recalled millions of vehicles, the question remains whether these older models will eventually be recalled as well. The short answer is that we have no idea, but former NHTSA head Joan Claybrook feels that the government safety agency should have taken unintended acceleration claims more seriously in the past.
The Freep says that this early investigation was strictly limited to incidents of unintended acceleration lasting one second or less, which strikes us as odd considering prolonged periods unintended acceleration are a lot more dangerous than a blip of the throttle. And this is where the story gets a bit tricky. The Freep reports that a 2008 lawsuit stemming from an alleged unintended acceleration-related death of a woman driving a 2005 Camry says that the decision was made to limit the investigation right after a former NHTSA employee, Christopher Santucci, took a job with Toyota.
The lawsuit alleges that the new Toyota employee negotiated a deal with his former coworkers at NHTSA to limit the investigation of unintended acceleration claims to instances of one second or less. Santucci said in a deposition that the NHTSA investigation involved 2002 and 2003 Toyota Camry, Solaras and Lexus ES300 models. NHTSA had reportedly received 139 complaints in the 2004 investigation, but found no defects.
Now that Toyota has officially recalled millions of vehicles, the question remains whether these older models will eventually be recalled as well. The short answer is that we have no idea, but former NHTSA head Joan Claybrook feels that the government safety agency should have taken unintended acceleration claims more seriously in the past.
01-28-2010, 03:31 PM
#180
Got that right! Holy crap... See this is the real problem. Toyota's response has been so bad that now, even when they ultimately fix the defect(s), people can potentially blame them for all kinds of stuff and get away with it. Talk about a massive loss of consumer confidence in a brand that was famous for its quality and reliability.
That's not to say that there is nothing to this latest story - who the hell knows, at this point... but that's EXACTLY the problem! What a mess.
That's not to say that there is nothing to this latest story - who the hell knows, at this point... but that's EXACTLY the problem! What a mess.
01-28-2010, 03:43 PM
#181
The sizzle in the Steak
Can O Worms.
So when did CTS begin manufacturing their pedals?
I don't think it goes back to 2004...does it? Most articles state that CTS took over for Denso "recently".
So when did CTS begin manufacturing their pedals?
I don't think it goes back to 2004...does it? Most articles state that CTS took over for Denso "recently".
01-28-2010, 04:04 PM
#182
Senior Moderator
Honestly, Toyota is the only party guilty of culpable negligence as they're supposed to make certain that their suppliers are furnishing components that are not of substandard quality or somehow incompatible with the vehicles in which they're installed. Throwing the vendor under the bus is totally unacceptable and a petty attempt at displacing blame. 
01-28-2010, 04:22 PM
#183
_____ like a rabbit
01-28-2010, 05:27 PM
#184
The sizzle in the Steak
....and cue the clownz
Adding to Toyota’s ever-growing mountain of trouble, the United States House of Representatives announced on Thursday it will hold a hearing next month to discuss the automaker recent recalls and growing consumer complaints of unintended acceleration.
Scheduled for February 25th, the hearing will be used “to examine the persistent consumer complaints of sudden unintended acceleration in vehicles manufactured by the Toyota Motor Corporation.”
House Energy and Commerce chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., will oversee the hearing. “Like many consumers, I am concerned by the seriousness and scope of Toyota’s recent recall announcements,” Waxman told The Detroit News. “I look forward to learning more about the steps Toyota is taking to address safety defects, and I hope that the automaker will continue to cooperate with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to get unsafe vehicles off our roads.”
Toyota has found itself at the center of a firestorm following two massive U.S. recalls. The Japanese automaker recalled 5.35 million vehicles late last year due to floor mat issues, and announced a 2.3 million vehicle recall last month. The latest recall forced Toyota to halt sales of eight of its most popular models.
Scheduled for February 25th, the hearing will be used “to examine the persistent consumer complaints of sudden unintended acceleration in vehicles manufactured by the Toyota Motor Corporation.”
House Energy and Commerce chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., will oversee the hearing. “Like many consumers, I am concerned by the seriousness and scope of Toyota’s recent recall announcements,” Waxman told The Detroit News. “I look forward to learning more about the steps Toyota is taking to address safety defects, and I hope that the automaker will continue to cooperate with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to get unsafe vehicles off our roads.”
Toyota has found itself at the center of a firestorm following two massive U.S. recalls. The Japanese automaker recalled 5.35 million vehicles late last year due to floor mat issues, and announced a 2.3 million vehicle recall last month. The latest recall forced Toyota to halt sales of eight of its most popular models.
Time for the politicians to grandstand, and score some political points.
There is really nothing else major going on in the world and in the U.S. at the moment....plenty of time for this.
01-28-2010, 06:45 PM
#185
Race Director
Audi "unintended acceleration" part deux.......
I hope Toyota comes out of it better than Audi did. The only thing missing is the 60 Minutes story - tho that might be coming soon.
I hope Toyota comes out of it better than Audi did. The only thing missing is the 60 Minutes story - tho that might be coming soon.
01-28-2010, 06:48 PM
#186
Race Director
01-28-2010, 06:49 PM
#187
Senior Moderator
http://www.leftlanenews.com/house-sc...tml#more-25295
Time for the politicians to grandstand, and score some political points.
There is really nothing else major going on in the world and in the U.S. at the moment....plenty of time for this.
Time for the politicians to grandstand, and score some political points.
There is really nothing else major going on in the world and in the U.S. at the moment....plenty of time for this.
01-29-2010, 06:45 AM
#189
Safety Car
Ford is Also Looking 2 Capitalize
Following General Motors move, FoMoCo is also offering $1,000 trade-in cash on Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles to lure in Toyota owners that are facing recalls on sticking accelerator pedals.
“The offer is eligible to Acura, Honda, Toyota, Lexus and Scion owners,” Robert Parker, a Ford spokesman told Inside Line on Thursday.
Ford did not say when the incentive program will end.
GM said yesterday that it is offering a monthlong incentive to Toyota and Lexus owners after “thousands” of them called and e-mailed dealers asking for help.
“The offer is eligible to Acura, Honda, Toyota, Lexus and Scion owners,” Robert Parker, a Ford spokesman told Inside Line on Thursday.
Ford did not say when the incentive program will end.
GM said yesterday that it is offering a monthlong incentive to Toyota and Lexus owners after “thousands” of them called and e-mailed dealers asking for help.
01-29-2010, 07:59 AM
#190
Race Director
The sky is falling for Toyota. The only consolation so far is that this hit at a relatively slow time of the year. It will be interesting to see the sales numbers at the end of the month.
01-29-2010, 08:03 AM
#191
Senior Moderator
Toyota's Tylenol moment
By Alex Taylor III, senior editor January 28, 2010: 1:30 PM ET
NEW YORK (Fortune) -- In the midst of its biggest recall ever, Toyota is grappling with an existential crisis.
By suspending production and sales of eight models in the U.S. and recalling millions of vehicles, it is putting its business on hold for an indefinite amount of time while it attempts to correct its twin problems of sticky accelerators and faulty carpets.
This is an especially difficult dilemma for the company, because it has built its reputation not on looks or performance or great deals, but upon quality and dependability.
For guidance -- and perhaps inspiration -- Toyota should do some research on the Johnson & Johnson Tylenol recall of 1982.
That year, seven people in the Chicago area died from taking Tylenol capsules poisoned with potassium cyanide. The case remains unsolved, and no suspects were ever charged.
But Johnson & Johnson (JNJ, Fortune 500) didn't wait around for the authorities to act. It stopped production of Tylenol and issued a nationwide recall of 31 million bottles already in circulation with a retail value of over $100 million.
The murders stopped, and J&J's actions led to changes in packaging -- those annoying seals on everything from aspirin to milk -- as well as federal anti-tampering laws. Through its prompt action, J&J was able to actually enhance the value of the Tylenol brand by making product safety one of its attributes.
Toyota has a much tougher job ahead of it. That's because the problems in its cars are not the result of a crazed individual but are systemic to the product development process. Fixing the system that allowed the defects to occur will be complex and expensive.
What to do if your car's on the recall list
The twin accelerator and carpet problems have been widely blamed on Toyota's pell-mell expansion over the last several years in its effort to pass General Motors and become the leader in worldwide sales.
But the accelerator problems seem to lie instead with a parallel effort that accompanied expansion: an almost paranoid drive to cut costs by using cheaper materials.
Last month, for instance, it was reported that Toyota had "requested" its suppliers to help in reducing parts costs over the next three years to compensate for slowing sales. That's a huge number, and a "request" from a big customer like Toyota is more like an order.
Cutting individual part costs can have a telling effect on their quality. Meanwhile, Toyota also moved more parts-buying overseas, away from familiar Japanese suppliers and into unfamiliar foreign ones. That may look good on the books, but it can lead to unreliable sources.
Just put an old and new Toyota side-by-side. You'll see the corner-cutting impact from the surface down, and it isn't pretty.
The 2009 RAV4, one of the models under the current recall, on the surface appears to be a better overall value than its predecessor. But take a close look at something like its instrument panel, and you'll see it has been noticeably cheapened by stripping out popular options and using inferior materials. And those are just the parts of the car that are visible to the customer. More cost-cutting may be hidden from view.
To ensure that it doesn't face any more embarrassing recalls, Toyota is going to have to look through all its new models' parts lists for potential problems caused by cost-cutting and find a fix. And it will have to rethink the way it is designing future models to avoid running into the same issue .
Toyota will be hard-pressed to match J&J's performance. The drugmaker developed tamper-resistant packaging in a matter of weeks. Toyota has been stumbling so far in coming up with a robust accelerator fix; one dealer describes the current one as a Rube Goldberg solution that is hardly representative of the kind of work usually done by Japanese engineers.
Another advantage J&J had the willingness of its CEO, James Burke, to step forward and accept responsibility. He became a national hero in a matter of weeks. Toyota's top executives are traditionally more reticent and like to stay in the background. It must be noted though that current president Akio Toyoda has shown himself willing to break with the past.
But the biggest difference between Toyota and Tylenol may be money. J&J spent $100 million two decades ago to clean up its mess. Toyota may have to invest billions, and that's a big bill to win back the trust of customers.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/28/auto...cnn=yes&hpt=C2
By Alex Taylor III, senior editor January 28, 2010: 1:30 PM ET
NEW YORK (Fortune) -- In the midst of its biggest recall ever, Toyota is grappling with an existential crisis.
By suspending production and sales of eight models in the U.S. and recalling millions of vehicles, it is putting its business on hold for an indefinite amount of time while it attempts to correct its twin problems of sticky accelerators and faulty carpets.
This is an especially difficult dilemma for the company, because it has built its reputation not on looks or performance or great deals, but upon quality and dependability.
For guidance -- and perhaps inspiration -- Toyota should do some research on the Johnson & Johnson Tylenol recall of 1982.
That year, seven people in the Chicago area died from taking Tylenol capsules poisoned with potassium cyanide. The case remains unsolved, and no suspects were ever charged.
But Johnson & Johnson (JNJ, Fortune 500) didn't wait around for the authorities to act. It stopped production of Tylenol and issued a nationwide recall of 31 million bottles already in circulation with a retail value of over $100 million.
The murders stopped, and J&J's actions led to changes in packaging -- those annoying seals on everything from aspirin to milk -- as well as federal anti-tampering laws. Through its prompt action, J&J was able to actually enhance the value of the Tylenol brand by making product safety one of its attributes.
Toyota has a much tougher job ahead of it. That's because the problems in its cars are not the result of a crazed individual but are systemic to the product development process. Fixing the system that allowed the defects to occur will be complex and expensive.
What to do if your car's on the recall list
The twin accelerator and carpet problems have been widely blamed on Toyota's pell-mell expansion over the last several years in its effort to pass General Motors and become the leader in worldwide sales.
But the accelerator problems seem to lie instead with a parallel effort that accompanied expansion: an almost paranoid drive to cut costs by using cheaper materials.
Last month, for instance, it was reported that Toyota had "requested" its suppliers to help in reducing parts costs over the next three years to compensate for slowing sales. That's a huge number, and a "request" from a big customer like Toyota is more like an order.
Cutting individual part costs can have a telling effect on their quality. Meanwhile, Toyota also moved more parts-buying overseas, away from familiar Japanese suppliers and into unfamiliar foreign ones. That may look good on the books, but it can lead to unreliable sources.
Just put an old and new Toyota side-by-side. You'll see the corner-cutting impact from the surface down, and it isn't pretty.
The 2009 RAV4, one of the models under the current recall, on the surface appears to be a better overall value than its predecessor. But take a close look at something like its instrument panel, and you'll see it has been noticeably cheapened by stripping out popular options and using inferior materials. And those are just the parts of the car that are visible to the customer. More cost-cutting may be hidden from view.
To ensure that it doesn't face any more embarrassing recalls, Toyota is going to have to look through all its new models' parts lists for potential problems caused by cost-cutting and find a fix. And it will have to rethink the way it is designing future models to avoid running into the same issue .
Toyota will be hard-pressed to match J&J's performance. The drugmaker developed tamper-resistant packaging in a matter of weeks. Toyota has been stumbling so far in coming up with a robust accelerator fix; one dealer describes the current one as a Rube Goldberg solution that is hardly representative of the kind of work usually done by Japanese engineers.
Another advantage J&J had the willingness of its CEO, James Burke, to step forward and accept responsibility. He became a national hero in a matter of weeks. Toyota's top executives are traditionally more reticent and like to stay in the background. It must be noted though that current president Akio Toyoda has shown himself willing to break with the past.
But the biggest difference between Toyota and Tylenol may be money. J&J spent $100 million two decades ago to clean up its mess. Toyota may have to invest billions, and that's a big bill to win back the trust of customers.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/28/auto...cnn=yes&hpt=C2
01-29-2010, 05:12 PM
#193
how handsome I am
01-29-2010, 07:41 PM
#194
I'm the Firestarter
With the tiny number of reported cases given the number of car sold, I think Toyota has no freaking clue what the problem is and they're just guessing. Just imagine holding up production of so many cars when you don't really know what's wrong with them. So many people must be scrambling and shitting their pants right now at Toyota.
01-29-2010, 08:56 PM
#195
01-29-2010, 09:18 PM
#196
Punk Rocker
There is damage control and then there is ignoring the safety of millions of people. Toyota CLEARLY stated that they knew about the problem. These are the facts. If you can't deal with it, then just get out. Put your personal vendettas and emotions aside. These are peoples lives we are talking about here.
01-29-2010, 10:02 PM
#197
AZ Community Team
Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
Toyota Motor began facing complaints of runaway cars years ago, but the company did not install "brake override" systems in those vehicles, even as several other automakers deployed the technology to address such malfunctions.
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The brake override systems allow a driver to stop a car with the footbrake even if the accelerator is depressed and the vehicle is running at full throttle. The systems are an outgrowth of new electronics in cars, specifically in engine control.
"If the brake and the accelerator are in an argument, the brake wins," a spokesman at Chrysler said in describing the systems, which it began installing in 2003.
Volkswagen, Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz also install such systems in at least some of their cars, the companies and industry experts said, some as far back as 10 years ago. General Motors installs brake override in all of its cars in which it is possible for the engine at full throttle to overwhelm the brakes.
"Most other automakers have adopted this technology," said Sean Kane, a former researcher at the Center for Auto Safety who now works at Safety Research and Strategies. Not adding the systems "is one of the mistakes that created this perfect storm for Toyota."
Toyota did not respond Thursday to questions about its decisions involving brake override.
But at the Detroit Auto Show in December, Toyota North America President Yoshi Inaba said the company would begin equipping its vehicles with brake override. His comments followed a November statement from the company that the override system would be made standard on Toyota and Lexus vehicles starting with some models in January 2010.
<object classid="clsid<img src=" http:="" www.acurazine.com="" forums="" images="" smilies="" biggrin.gif="" alt="" title="Big Grin" smilieid="3" class="inlineimg" border="0"></object>
The precaution comes too late, however, to forestall a tsunami of negative publicity that has engulfed the company since it halted production and suspended sales of eight popular models after reports of unintended acceleration. For a company that famously aimed to become the largest automaker in the world by touting a reputation for reliability and safety, it has been a striking turnaround.
The company has blamed the accelerations on faulty floor mats and their installation, as well as defective accelerator pedals, which they are seeking to redesign. The brake override systems, when they come, will provide a measure of redundancy.
It was not immediately clear how much it would cost to install the brake override systems, and industry experts said the costs of the control technology are difficult to measure.
"There's really no cost, but it's a critical skill issue -- we can only find so many people who can do this kind of work," said a senior engineer at a major automaker, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. "It would require a bunch of software and development people to design it, but spread across lots of cars, the money involved would be negligible. . . . No one wants a runaway."
As far back as 2004, government investigators were looking at 2002-2003 Toyota Camrys and Solaras and Lexus ES 300s to determine whether they were defective, gathering information about 37 owner complaints of sudden acceleration, according to the Center for Auto Safety.
Automotive experts said that in at least some of those incidents, a brake override system could have prevented harm.
In the accident that has drawn perhaps the most publicity, a 2009 Lexus ES 350 raced through San Diego, weaving at 120 miles an hour through rush-hour freeway traffic. Veteran California Highway Patrol officer Mark Saylor was at the wheel, with his wife, teenage daughter and brother-in-law aboard.
"We're in trouble. . . . There's no brakes," Saylor's brother-in-law told a police dispatcher over a cellphone. As they approached an intersection, and the end of the road, the passengers could be heard urging each other to pray. All four died.
Afterward, investigators said that it appeared the brakes had been applied for so long that the brake pads melted, according to a report by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
Had a brake override system been at work, the engine would have been depowered -- not turned off, but slowed.
Until recently, an accelerator pedal opened the throttle mechanically. But newer pedals control the engine via sensors and a computer.
The new throttle electronics and software have often themselves been the focus of some suspicion in the runaway crashes.
Whatever the causes of accidents, engineers noted that there are trade-offs in using brake override systems. For example, some customers prefer to be able to apply the brake and step on the accelerator without reducing power to the engine, especially in high-performance driving.
Toyota, moreover, is not the only automaker to eschew the fail-safe technology.
In an e-mail, Honda spokeswoman Christina Ra said that "Honda and Acura vehicles do not apply any override logic between brake and accelerator pedal inputs. . . . We continue to accept application of the accelerator and brake pedals as representing the driver's intention."
But experts said that the value of the brake override systems is that they can mitigate acceleration problems no matter where they come from. Toyota, as well as the NHTSA, appear to have struggled in diagnosing exactly what is causing the trouble.
"A brake override system can paper over a multitude of mistakes," Kane said.
Toyota Motor began facing complaints of runaway cars years ago, but the company did not install "brake override" systems in those vehicles, even as several other automakers deployed the technology to address such malfunctions.
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The brake override systems allow a driver to stop a car with the footbrake even if the accelerator is depressed and the vehicle is running at full throttle. The systems are an outgrowth of new electronics in cars, specifically in engine control.
"If the brake and the accelerator are in an argument, the brake wins," a spokesman at Chrysler said in describing the systems, which it began installing in 2003.
Volkswagen, Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz also install such systems in at least some of their cars, the companies and industry experts said, some as far back as 10 years ago. General Motors installs brake override in all of its cars in which it is possible for the engine at full throttle to overwhelm the brakes.
"Most other automakers have adopted this technology," said Sean Kane, a former researcher at the Center for Auto Safety who now works at Safety Research and Strategies. Not adding the systems "is one of the mistakes that created this perfect storm for Toyota."
Toyota did not respond Thursday to questions about its decisions involving brake override.
But at the Detroit Auto Show in December, Toyota North America President Yoshi Inaba said the company would begin equipping its vehicles with brake override. His comments followed a November statement from the company that the override system would be made standard on Toyota and Lexus vehicles starting with some models in January 2010.
<object classid="clsid<img src=" http:="" www.acurazine.com="" forums="" images="" smilies="" biggrin.gif="" alt="" title="Big Grin" smilieid="3" class="inlineimg" border="0"></object>
The precaution comes too late, however, to forestall a tsunami of negative publicity that has engulfed the company since it halted production and suspended sales of eight popular models after reports of unintended acceleration. For a company that famously aimed to become the largest automaker in the world by touting a reputation for reliability and safety, it has been a striking turnaround.
The company has blamed the accelerations on faulty floor mats and their installation, as well as defective accelerator pedals, which they are seeking to redesign. The brake override systems, when they come, will provide a measure of redundancy.
It was not immediately clear how much it would cost to install the brake override systems, and industry experts said the costs of the control technology are difficult to measure.
"There's really no cost, but it's a critical skill issue -- we can only find so many people who can do this kind of work," said a senior engineer at a major automaker, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. "It would require a bunch of software and development people to design it, but spread across lots of cars, the money involved would be negligible. . . . No one wants a runaway."
As far back as 2004, government investigators were looking at 2002-2003 Toyota Camrys and Solaras and Lexus ES 300s to determine whether they were defective, gathering information about 37 owner complaints of sudden acceleration, according to the Center for Auto Safety.
Automotive experts said that in at least some of those incidents, a brake override system could have prevented harm.
In the accident that has drawn perhaps the most publicity, a 2009 Lexus ES 350 raced through San Diego, weaving at 120 miles an hour through rush-hour freeway traffic. Veteran California Highway Patrol officer Mark Saylor was at the wheel, with his wife, teenage daughter and brother-in-law aboard.
"We're in trouble. . . . There's no brakes," Saylor's brother-in-law told a police dispatcher over a cellphone. As they approached an intersection, and the end of the road, the passengers could be heard urging each other to pray. All four died.
Afterward, investigators said that it appeared the brakes had been applied for so long that the brake pads melted, according to a report by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
Had a brake override system been at work, the engine would have been depowered -- not turned off, but slowed.
Until recently, an accelerator pedal opened the throttle mechanically. But newer pedals control the engine via sensors and a computer.
The new throttle electronics and software have often themselves been the focus of some suspicion in the runaway crashes.
Whatever the causes of accidents, engineers noted that there are trade-offs in using brake override systems. For example, some customers prefer to be able to apply the brake and step on the accelerator without reducing power to the engine, especially in high-performance driving.
Toyota, moreover, is not the only automaker to eschew the fail-safe technology.
In an e-mail, Honda spokeswoman Christina Ra said that "Honda and Acura vehicles do not apply any override logic between brake and accelerator pedal inputs. . . . We continue to accept application of the accelerator and brake pedals as representing the driver's intention."
But experts said that the value of the brake override systems is that they can mitigate acceleration problems no matter where they come from. Toyota, as well as the NHTSA, appear to have struggled in diagnosing exactly what is causing the trouble.
"A brake override system can paper over a multitude of mistakes," Kane said.
01-29-2010, 11:09 PM
#198
...but, I bet if you ever experience this hellish malfunction, you would demand an immediate fix before you ever drive the vehicle again. The issue is not a recent development - as you say, 8+ year and running. There are many reports of this malfunction - far beyond the 19 that lost their lives.
I remember and experienced the 'Sludge' fiasco - Toyota stubbornly denied any defect or flaw and blamed it on improper maintenance - BS! The scope of Toyota's recall is unprecedented. They would NEVER order such a recall or halt production unless there was significant urgency.
Last edited by pokin; 01-29-2010 at 11:12 PM.
01-29-2010, 11:11 PM
#199
Punk Rocker
***no bad wishes***
...but, I bet if you ever experience this hellish malfunction, you would demand an immediate fix before you ever drive the vehicle again. The issue is not a recent development - as you say, 8+ year and running.
I remember and experienced the 'Sludge' fiasco - Toyota stubbornly denied any defect or flaw and blamed it on improper maintenance - BS! The scope of Toyota's recall is unprecedented. They would NEVER order such a recall or halt production unless there was significant urgency.
...but, I bet if you ever experience this hellish malfunction, you would demand an immediate fix before you ever drive the vehicle again. The issue is not a recent development - as you say, 8+ year and running.
I remember and experienced the 'Sludge' fiasco - Toyota stubbornly denied any defect or flaw and blamed it on improper maintenance - BS! The scope of Toyota's recall is unprecedented. They would NEVER order such a recall or halt production unless there was significant urgency.
01-30-2010, 07:30 AM
#200
AZ Community Team
Doubt cast on Toyota's decision to blame sudden acceleration on gas pedal defect
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http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-pedal30-2010jan30,0,790073,full.story
Doubt cast on Toyota's decision to blame sudden acceleration on gas pedal defect
The pedal maker denies that its products are at fault. Some independent safety experts also are skeptical of Toyota's explanations. 'We know this recall is a red herring,' one says.
Toyota Motor Corp.'s decision to blame its widening sudden-acceleration problem on a gas pedal defect came under attack Friday, with the pedal manufacturer flatly denying that its products were at fault.
Federal vehicle safety records reviewed by The Times also cast doubt on Toyota's claims that sticky gas pedals were a significant factor in the growing reports of runaway vehicles. Of more than 2,000 motorist complaints of sudden acceleration in Toyota and Lexus vehicles over the last decade, just 5% blamed a sticking gas pedal, the analysis found.
What's more, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has conducted eight investigations into sudden-acceleration problems in Toyota vehicles over the last seven years, none of which identified a sticking pedal as a potential cause.
"The way the sudden-acceleration problems are occurring in reported incidents doesn't comport with how this sticky pedal is described," said Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, a Rehoboth, Mass., auto safety consulting firm. "We know this recall is a red herring."
Sudden-acceleration events in Toyota and Lexus vehicles have been blamed for at least 19 fatalities and 815 vehicle crashes since 1999.
Toyota last fall blamed the episodes on floor mats that entrapped the gas pedals, leading to a massive recall. Then last week Toyota said sticking gas pedals were also causing sudden acceleration by not springing back into idle position, triggering another recall.
On Tuesday, the automaker stopped sales and production of eight models until it could remedy the problem.
Independent auto safety experts have been skeptical of Toyota's explanations, saying floor mats and sticky gas pedals can't fully explain the large number of complaints that have been mounting for the last decade, covering some of the most popular models in the company's lineup, including the Camry.
That argument was given more weight Friday when the manufacturer of the suspect pedals insisted its products had been unfairly blamed.
CTS Corp. of Elkhart, Ind., said in a statement that it had "deep concern that there is widespread confusion and incorrect information" about its products linked to the sudden-acceleration issue.
"The problem of sudden unintended acceleration has been reported to have existed in some Lexus vehicles and Toyota vehicles going back to 1999, when CTS did not even make this product for any customer," the company said.
Toyota began using CTS-made pedals in the 2005 model year.
On Jan. 21, Toyota told federal regulators that CTS pedals were susceptible to moisture and could stick, forcing the recall of 2.3 million cars and trucks. CTS acknowledged that a tiny number of pedals had a rare condition that could cause a slow return to idle position, but it denied that this condition could cause unintended acceleration and said that it knew of no accidents or injuries caused by the issue.
Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said the company had no comment on CTS' statement.
Another Toyota spokesman, Mike Michels, said in an e-mail that the company had identified the pedal problem as "abnormal friction in the pedal pivot mechanism" and that the automaker hoped to announce a remedy soon.
Toyota has honored CTS three times since 2005 for the quality and efficiency of its work, citing the fact that the supplier "exceeded quality expectations" and achieved "100 percent on-time delivery and for shipping accelerator pedal modules with zero defects."
The automaker also uses pedals supplied by Denso Corp., a Japanese company with North American headquarters in suburban Detroit, but has said those do not appear to be defective.
However, the Times review of federal safety records shows several instances of complaints of stuck pedals on vehicles built in Japan, which Toyota has said are not subject to the recall. For example, one complaint, filed two years ago, told of a 2007 Japanese-built Camry in Maryland with a pedal that "stuck to the floor."
A wide group of national automotive experts say there is strong evidence that a hidden electronic problem must account for at least some, if not most, of the Toyota sudden-acceleration events.
The 19 sudden-acceleration deaths involving Toyota vehicles are more than those that have occurred in vehicles from all other automakers combined, according to figures provided to The Times by NHTSA.
The Times has previously reported that consumer complaints of unintended acceleration surged in the years after the automaker introduced electronic throttles, by fivefold in some cases.
The electronic throttle system uses sensors, microprocessors and electric motors, rather than a traditional link such as a steel cable, to connect the driver's foot to the engine.
In recent interviews, two former NHTSA administrators, Ricardo Martinez and Joan Claybrook, have said they believe that some kind of electronic glitch may be causing the Toyota problems. Similar conclusions are being drawn by independent automotive safety experts, forensic mechanics and automotive electronics researchers, as well as many consumers.
In its review, The Times examined NHTSA data for all reports from Toyota drivers of gas pedals sticking since 1999, excluding those reports that blamed floor mats for trapping the pedal. That yielded 116 complaints about the gas pedals. Overall, there were 2,152 complaints categorized as vehicle speed control, which includes sudden acceleration.
Of the complaints about sticking pedals identified by The Times, only one resulted in a fatality. But that vehicle, a 2003 Camry, contained a pedal assembly that was not manufactured by CTS.
In fact, of 11 injuries reported to NHTSA in complaints that alleged stuck pedals, only one -- a 2008 Camry Hybrid that ran into a tree in Minnesota last October -- was in a vehicle included in the current recall, The Times found.
NHTSA officials, as well as officials at the U.S. Department of Transportation, have said they have exhaustively investigated Toyota's problems and found no evidence that any electronic defect exists in the company's electronic throttle system.
"The agency looks into all possible defects with these vehicles," a NHTSA public affairs representative said Friday.
But some motorists don't believe NHTSA's and Toyota's explanations.
Jeffrey Pepski, a financial consultant in suburban Minneapolis, said his Lexus ES350 accelerated to 80 miles per hour on a freeway in the Twin Cities last year. At one point, Pepski said, he hooked his toe under the pedal to pull it up. It was not stuck and the floor mat was not interfering with the pedal, he said. That did not solve the problem, he said.
Pepski said he described his actions to NHTSA investigators and a Toyota expert, and they didn't believe him. In October, NHTSA closed an investigation prompted by a defect petition filed by Pepski without taking action. Pepski traded in the vehicle to a Toyota dealer.
Kevin Haggerty, a New Jersey volunteer firefighter, said his 2007 Avalon accelerated out of control last month, the second time it had happened. By shifting back and forth into neutral, he was able to drive the car to a Toyota dealer, who he said was unable to pinpoint a problem.
Haggerty said dealership technicians could not find anything obstructing the pedal, but they replaced the pedal, electronic components and the engine throttle system.
He said they could not explain what specifically had caused the engine to accelerate on its own. But last week a Toyota spokesman told The Times that Haggerty's problem did in fact stem from the pedal.
"I don't feel safe in the car," Haggerty said. "I never felt comfortable that they knew what the problem was."
Haggerty still has the vehicle.
</noscript> <noscript>http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-pedal30-2010jan30,0,790073,full.story
Doubt cast on Toyota's decision to blame sudden acceleration on gas pedal defect
The pedal maker denies that its products are at fault. Some independent safety experts also are skeptical of Toyota's explanations. 'We know this recall is a red herring,' one says.
Toyota Motor Corp.'s decision to blame its widening sudden-acceleration problem on a gas pedal defect came under attack Friday, with the pedal manufacturer flatly denying that its products were at fault.
Federal vehicle safety records reviewed by The Times also cast doubt on Toyota's claims that sticky gas pedals were a significant factor in the growing reports of runaway vehicles. Of more than 2,000 motorist complaints of sudden acceleration in Toyota and Lexus vehicles over the last decade, just 5% blamed a sticking gas pedal, the analysis found.
What's more, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has conducted eight investigations into sudden-acceleration problems in Toyota vehicles over the last seven years, none of which identified a sticking pedal as a potential cause.
"The way the sudden-acceleration problems are occurring in reported incidents doesn't comport with how this sticky pedal is described," said Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, a Rehoboth, Mass., auto safety consulting firm. "We know this recall is a red herring."
Sudden-acceleration events in Toyota and Lexus vehicles have been blamed for at least 19 fatalities and 815 vehicle crashes since 1999.
Toyota last fall blamed the episodes on floor mats that entrapped the gas pedals, leading to a massive recall. Then last week Toyota said sticking gas pedals were also causing sudden acceleration by not springing back into idle position, triggering another recall.
On Tuesday, the automaker stopped sales and production of eight models until it could remedy the problem.
Independent auto safety experts have been skeptical of Toyota's explanations, saying floor mats and sticky gas pedals can't fully explain the large number of complaints that have been mounting for the last decade, covering some of the most popular models in the company's lineup, including the Camry.
That argument was given more weight Friday when the manufacturer of the suspect pedals insisted its products had been unfairly blamed.
CTS Corp. of Elkhart, Ind., said in a statement that it had "deep concern that there is widespread confusion and incorrect information" about its products linked to the sudden-acceleration issue.
"The problem of sudden unintended acceleration has been reported to have existed in some Lexus vehicles and Toyota vehicles going back to 1999, when CTS did not even make this product for any customer," the company said.
Toyota began using CTS-made pedals in the 2005 model year.
On Jan. 21, Toyota told federal regulators that CTS pedals were susceptible to moisture and could stick, forcing the recall of 2.3 million cars and trucks. CTS acknowledged that a tiny number of pedals had a rare condition that could cause a slow return to idle position, but it denied that this condition could cause unintended acceleration and said that it knew of no accidents or injuries caused by the issue.
Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said the company had no comment on CTS' statement.
Another Toyota spokesman, Mike Michels, said in an e-mail that the company had identified the pedal problem as "abnormal friction in the pedal pivot mechanism" and that the automaker hoped to announce a remedy soon.
Toyota has honored CTS three times since 2005 for the quality and efficiency of its work, citing the fact that the supplier "exceeded quality expectations" and achieved "100 percent on-time delivery and for shipping accelerator pedal modules with zero defects."
The automaker also uses pedals supplied by Denso Corp., a Japanese company with North American headquarters in suburban Detroit, but has said those do not appear to be defective.
However, the Times review of federal safety records shows several instances of complaints of stuck pedals on vehicles built in Japan, which Toyota has said are not subject to the recall. For example, one complaint, filed two years ago, told of a 2007 Japanese-built Camry in Maryland with a pedal that "stuck to the floor."
A wide group of national automotive experts say there is strong evidence that a hidden electronic problem must account for at least some, if not most, of the Toyota sudden-acceleration events.
The 19 sudden-acceleration deaths involving Toyota vehicles are more than those that have occurred in vehicles from all other automakers combined, according to figures provided to The Times by NHTSA.
The Times has previously reported that consumer complaints of unintended acceleration surged in the years after the automaker introduced electronic throttles, by fivefold in some cases.
The electronic throttle system uses sensors, microprocessors and electric motors, rather than a traditional link such as a steel cable, to connect the driver's foot to the engine.
In recent interviews, two former NHTSA administrators, Ricardo Martinez and Joan Claybrook, have said they believe that some kind of electronic glitch may be causing the Toyota problems. Similar conclusions are being drawn by independent automotive safety experts, forensic mechanics and automotive electronics researchers, as well as many consumers.
In its review, The Times examined NHTSA data for all reports from Toyota drivers of gas pedals sticking since 1999, excluding those reports that blamed floor mats for trapping the pedal. That yielded 116 complaints about the gas pedals. Overall, there were 2,152 complaints categorized as vehicle speed control, which includes sudden acceleration.
Of the complaints about sticking pedals identified by The Times, only one resulted in a fatality. But that vehicle, a 2003 Camry, contained a pedal assembly that was not manufactured by CTS.
In fact, of 11 injuries reported to NHTSA in complaints that alleged stuck pedals, only one -- a 2008 Camry Hybrid that ran into a tree in Minnesota last October -- was in a vehicle included in the current recall, The Times found.
NHTSA officials, as well as officials at the U.S. Department of Transportation, have said they have exhaustively investigated Toyota's problems and found no evidence that any electronic defect exists in the company's electronic throttle system.
"The agency looks into all possible defects with these vehicles," a NHTSA public affairs representative said Friday.
But some motorists don't believe NHTSA's and Toyota's explanations.
Jeffrey Pepski, a financial consultant in suburban Minneapolis, said his Lexus ES350 accelerated to 80 miles per hour on a freeway in the Twin Cities last year. At one point, Pepski said, he hooked his toe under the pedal to pull it up. It was not stuck and the floor mat was not interfering with the pedal, he said. That did not solve the problem, he said.
Pepski said he described his actions to NHTSA investigators and a Toyota expert, and they didn't believe him. In October, NHTSA closed an investigation prompted by a defect petition filed by Pepski without taking action. Pepski traded in the vehicle to a Toyota dealer.
Kevin Haggerty, a New Jersey volunteer firefighter, said his 2007 Avalon accelerated out of control last month, the second time it had happened. By shifting back and forth into neutral, he was able to drive the car to a Toyota dealer, who he said was unable to pinpoint a problem.
Haggerty said dealership technicians could not find anything obstructing the pedal, but they replaced the pedal, electronic components and the engine throttle system.
He said they could not explain what specifically had caused the engine to accelerate on its own. But last week a Toyota spokesman told The Times that Haggerty's problem did in fact stem from the pedal.
"I don't feel safe in the car," Haggerty said. "I never felt comfortable that they knew what the problem was."
Haggerty still has the vehicle.