You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. Ha ha.

 

The issue for you, Elon, the tree huggers and EV evangelists, is that pie (the EV one) won't be as big as you believe.

 

https://electrek.co/2021/08/05/ford-...goal-2030/Ford, GM, and Stellantis, also known as the Detroit Big Three, announced today a joint goal for electric vehicles to achieve 40% to 50% of their sales in the US by 2030.

Who is going to buy the other 50% of their cars?



Over the last year, Ford, GM, and Stellantis (mainly Chrysler, Dodge, Ram, and Jeep in the US) each independently announced plans to accelerate the electrification of their respective vehicle portfolio.





GM says that it “aspires” to be fully electric by 2035.





Ford recently announced a goal for 40% of its sales to be all-electric vehicles by 2030.





Last month, Stellantis said that it aims for “over 40 percent of sales in the United States to be low emission vehicle (LEV) by 2030.“





Today, the Big Three got together to release a joint statement about their joint goal to “achieve sales of 40-50% of annual U.S. volumes of electric vehicles (battery electric, fuel cell, and plug-in hybrid vehicles) by 2030“:




“Today, Ford, GM and Stellantis announce their shared aspiration to achieve sales of 40-50% of annual U.S. volumes of electric vehicles (battery electric, fuel cell and plug-in hybrid vehicles) by 2030 in order to move the nation closer to a zero-emissions future consistent with Paris climate goals. Our recent product, technology, and investment announcements highlight our collective commitment to be leaders in the U.S. transition to electric vehicles. This represents a dramatic shift from the U.S. market today that can be achieved only with the timely deployment of the full suite of electrification policies committed to by the Administration in the Build Back Better Plan, including purchase incentives, a comprehensive charging network of sufficient density to support the millions of vehicles these targets represent, investments in R&D, and incentives to expand the electric vehicle manufacturing and supply chains in the United States. With the UAW at our side in transforming the workforce and partnering with us on this journey, we believe we can strengthen continued American leadership in clean transportation technology through electric vehicle innovation and manufacturing. We look forward to working with the Biden Administration, Congress and state and local governments to enact policies that will enable these ambitious objectives.”




The statement comes just as President Biden is expected to make an announcement about electric vehicles today:









The Biden administration already pushed for a $15 billion investment in electric vehicle infrastructure and transit as part of the infrastructure billcurrently being pushed through the legislative process.





But the federal government is also expected to reform its EV incentive program, which currently gives up to $7,500 in tax credit at the purchase of some electric vehicles.





Strangely, the biggest US electric vehicle manufacturer, Tesla, was not invited. Perhaps 50% at the end of the decade doesn’t seem as exciting with Tesla just sitting at 100% the whole time. Also, previously Biden’s EV events have been closely tied to unions and Tesla has been quite anti-union.

Electrek‘s take

While these types of commitments from automakers are better than nothing, most of them are starting to look opportunistic and uninspired at this point.





40-50% sales of all-electric, plug-in hybrid, and fuel cell vehicles combined is a weak goal in my opinion and frankly doesn’t meet climate goals.





I believe that there’s going to be a massive shift in consumer demand that will happen within the next four years where the vast majority of the market is going to realize that their next car will have to be all-electric.





Anything else will lose greatly in resale value as people will see the internal combustion engine as the “old” technology and battery-electric vehicles as the future.





It’s hard for these automakers to see that right now with EV sales reaching only a single-digit percentage of US sales, but as more compelling electric vehicles hit the market and become the best vehicles in their respective segments, consumer demand is going to shift fast.





While these automakers might not be ready for 100% EV sales by 2030, I think the market will be.





Also, these types of announcements feel opportunistic:




“We look forward to working with the Biden Administration, Congress and state and local governments to enact policies that will enable these ambitious objectives.”




GM wasn’t talking like that when Trump was in power and they were siding with him to lower emission standards in US vehicles.





It’s not like that was a long time ago. They only dropped out of Trump’s lawsuit against California’s CARB back in November when he lost the elections.

 

Folks who are more than satisfied with good ole ICE vehicles.

 

he sounds like someone already bought a Tesla himself.


Who is going to buy the other 50%? well you can start by buying 1 yourself.

 

 

And are absolutely not bothered by the fact that the resale value of that new ICE car will be near zero in five years. So again… are 50% people that dumb…?

 

patience ….. my friend, is a virtue. I don’t need any car right now.

 

You keep assuming things that are unlikely to happen.

 

This is 100000000000000000000000000% not true. My Jeep is worth a lot more than your RDX and it's nearly 10 years old.

 

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/05/white-house-answers-why-tesla-wasnt-invited-to-united-auto-workers-ev-event/



During the Q&A, one of the reporters asked,

“And the founder of Tesla, Elon Musk, expressed surprise that he was not invited to the ceremony because his company is obviously such a large manufacturer of electric vehicles. Can you give us any insight into why Tesla wasn’t included in this event?”

Secretary Psaki replied,

“We, of course, welcome the efforts of all automakers who recognize the potential of an electric vehicle future and support efforts that will help reach the president’s goal, and certainly, Tesla is one of those companies. Today, it’s the three largest employers of the United Auto Workers and the UAW president who will stand with President Biden as he announces his ambitious new target, but I would not expect this is the last time we talk about clean cars, the move toward electric vehicles, and we look forward to having a range of partners in that effort.”

A follow-up question was,

“So it’s not because Tesla’s a non-union shop?”

And Psaki replied,

“Well, these are the three largest employers of the United Auto Workers, so I’ll let you draw your own conclusion.”
. At least they were honest this time. .

 

Dude, we are not talking about “now”. I know the wrangler has more value than RDX and I’m happy for you.
The discussion refers to 2030 when the government is proposing 50% of cars will be electric. That assumes that the remaining 50% will be still buying new ICE cars (whose resale value will be abysmal). In my opinion that won’t happen because it’s an untenable situation. Even Sandy Munro revised his tipping point estimate to 2028.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QNHQOyz5TcY

 

As long as people are wanting ICE cars, an there is fuel available to run them, they'll have [even if only private party] some value.
Maybe by 2030, new car sales will be 50% EV, but I'm sure there will still be plenty of ICE sales on the pre-owned side of things.

 

This continual back and forth between everyone is becoming quite comical.

Sheer truth in the matter is no knows exactly WHEN all these things will truly happen but we ALL know they WILL happen.

I was already part of a industry that naysayed and resisted change....then we all said maybe in 10 - 15 years things will begin to sway different....then in less than 5 everything was different. I am referring the change from the film industry actually shooting on film to now primarily shooting on digital. Very apropos topic actually. And we all had the same arguements and predictions. And change the came faster and harder than anyone would have guessed because an outlier company (RED whom I HATE but I give credit where its due) that was started by a billionaire who had started Oakley sunglasses and was a brilliant marketer went off the deep end and made a digital cinema camera that forced all the old dogs to step and make their own top end versions.

BTW Film is still shot on and used today, but no where near as much as digital...maybe 5%....which has lead to companies cutting back or stopping making celluloid stock all together...and labs no longer processing save one or two. I see the same things happening in the automobile world. again its just a matter of when or how fast.

This is the same story and it will have a similar outcome. You all need to just quit bitching and watch the show. None of you are wrong but youre not all right either.

 

So I guess supporting UAW is a problem too...

 

So the government proposed 50% of cars will be electric, then 50% of us must buy it? Who knows what happens in 2024... We might get another President like Trump and there goes your plan for electric cars.

Show me how government is going to make that happen? and how do you know if the ICE car's resale value is not going to go the other way? Like higher because supply and demand?

EVERYTHING you say is based on your perspective, not seeing things objectively.

Is it gonna happen eventually? Yes. Is it gonna happen like the way you said? Not a chance.

 

Someone else (at least one other person) agrees with me too.

 

Absolutely right. I see that Sarlacc has got the clear idea of what I’m talking about.
The change will come faster than all of us will think.

 

First you said:

Then you say:

So, what is it? 5 years? 9 years? 7 years? What was your other "estimate"...3 years?

Either way, it's not going to drive the price down to zero, that's insane. 50% of sales is still just half and if that's the case then it's because demand is still there and the infrastructure to support it is present.

Whatever happens you should probably offload that RDX in the next couple weeks before you can't get gas anymore and it's totally worthless.
Who the fuck is rockoftn?

 

I don’t know who is he either. Just wanted to tell you that I found another person who agrees with me. One is better than none

Let’s make it clear, the tipping point of 50% or more EV sales.

Biden’s estimate 2030
Sandy Munro’s estimate 2028
My estimate 2025
Oonowindo’s estimate 2500 …

The discussion earlier was about Biden’s plan for 50% by 2030 which I said is not feasible because very few would be interested to buy an ICE vehicle (as opposed to 50%) at that time because the resale value won’t be there anymore.

Sandy Munro is right on point here stating that if we do not transition sooner, we will be dealing with Chinese and European influx of highly competent EVs eclipsing the domestic OEMs. That’ll be worse than the current fight with Tesla because the market will be ready even if the domestic manufacturers are not.


Remember the Kodak - digital camera moment
Nokia / Blackberry- iPhone moment
picture tube TVs - LCD- LED era

none of them took too long to shift, even though most people had those obsolete devices beforehand.

The ICE ship is already rocking….. and the (Tesla) storm is coming.

 

last time i checked none of those required infrastructures while they are similar but completely different. Also ICE cars has so many advantages over EV that it is not as simple as i am gonna swap my LCD TV to a LED...
if all 50% of the drivers all converted to EV by 2025 and everyone charges at home at night time, the current off-peak time is no longer the off peak time anymore. Where are those additional electricity gonna come from? Your ass?

There are currently about hundreds or thousands gas pumps along the route from LA to Las vegas and there are only 16 Tesla supercharger at Barstow....When you have 50% of the cars on the road are EV, tell me how long do i have to wait to charge to make sure that i will have some juice left to get me to vegas?

There are currently about 3-4 chargers on every floor of any given hotel, tell me where am i gonna charge when 50% of all cars are EV?

Like I said, if you want people to switch, and if the government is serious about EV, build infrastructure first... then the conversion will happen on its own... Until then, most of the car buyers wont make the switch..


The way you think of things is so 1 dimensional that i dont even know how you were able to afford to buy a RDX
You somehow think every issue will magically solve on its own... because Tesla...

 

on that part yes. But you make other absurd statements that go the way of batshit crazy.

 

What’s the fun otherwise….. ha ha.

 

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/05...ectrification/

The big electric vehicle announcement the Biden administration wanted to make today is that it has gotten GM, Ford, and Stellantis onboard for a 2030 electric vehicle target that, unfortunately, is actually quite lame. (Side note: the event was about much more than this weak target, but I’ll come back to that at the end.) The target is for 50% of US light vehicle sales to be “zero emissions” by 2030. However, there are a few particularly disappointing spots in the text. One is that they are including plugin hybrids, so it’s not really a “zero emissions vehicle” target. That’s quite irritating by itself, but let’s move on. They’re also including hydrogen fuel cell cars, which is weird, since even the hype around hydrogen fuel cell cars is clearly dead, let alone the cars themselves.Another weak spot is that the target seems to be for the US as a whole, not each automaker individually. As plenty of Tesla followers have pointed out, Tesla alone could supply a large chunk of that target, meaning that the other automakers’ combined target is even weaker than 50%, perhaps much weaker.

One thing I found particularly irritating in the announcement is the word I’ve put in bold in the following statement: “Specifically, the President will sign an Executive Order that sets an ambitiousnew target to make half of all new vehicles sold in 2030 zero-emissions vehicles, including battery electric, plug-in hybrid electric, or fuel cell electric vehicles.” No, this is not ambitious, not even close to it — and claiming that it is ambitious is embarrassing if not shameful. 50% full BEVs by 2025 would be ambitious. That’s what Volvo is targeting globally. That would be BEVs approximately doubling their US auto market share each year till then. That would be ambitious. A slow climb to some mixture of true EVs and faux EVs accounting for 50% of US auto sales by 2030 is not ambitious. Ford plans to be 100% electric in Europe by 2030. Volvo plans to be 100% electric there by 2030 as well. Volkswagen plans to be at 70% by then.



In June, 19% of new vehicle sales in Europe were sales of plugin vehicles. Without a doubt, Europe can hit 50% plugin vehicle share by 2025. China was at 15% plugin vehicle share in June, not far behind Europe. Again, I’d be surprised if China couldn’t achieve 50% plugin vehicle share by 2025. If that’s true and the US hit Biden’s “ambitious” goal of 50% plugin vehicles by 2030, that would mean the US would be ~5 years behind Europe and China.

In the title of this piece, I wrote, “Why Is USA Okay Being 5 Years Behind Europe & China On Vehicle Electrification?” By ignoring the trends in these other places and pretending the US is actually in a leadership position, it is as if the USA team is accepting being far below Europe and China. Why are American competitors seemingly fine with that? I guess it’s because no one sees the US as capable of competing. Europe and China clearly see the need for a fast transition to EVs and have passed laws requiring it. There’s no way that aggressive ZEV mandates or comparable fuel economy standards are going to get through the USA’s broken, corrupted legislation process. Half of the members of Congress are more or less owned by the oil & gas industry and do almost everything they can to stop progress. And then we struggle with a few seemingly illogical, stubborn “centrist Democrats” who won’t do much if it isn’t bipartisan, and certainly won’t permit ZEV mandates. So, at best, we are left with some decent carrots instead, and that’s it

As Nio62, a non-Tesla EV owner responding to a CleanTechnica article earlier today, writes, “I agree that PHEV’s should not be discussed and 50% is too low. Biden should make it 100% full BEV by 2030. However his upfront rebates are extraordinary, if he can pass them.” Yes, if we can get them passed, the EV rebates Biden is proposing would be the USA’s best EV incentives ever. They could stimulate a lot more EV purchases in the coming years. However, it’s simply not enough to catch Europe and China, because it doesn’t require that automakers come up with the total supply that consumers will be wanting.

With all of that unfortunate justification for why the USA can’t win gold or bronze in EV adoption and leadership, I’m going to circle back to the thing I highlighted earlier: Don’t claim that the USA is a leader when it is not. Don’t claim that we’re being ambitious when we’re not. It’s an affront to common sense and it is insulting to imply that we can’t count and can’t see the obvious. It’s debatable whether Europe and China are being ambitious (I’d say they aren’t either), and they are half a decade or so ahead of the United States. There’s no reality in which the USA is being ambitious on EVs, and no reality in which we can call the USA a leader. Promote better EV incentives. Work hard to get them through Congress. But also be honest with the American people and state that fossil-funded Republicans and “moderates” are blocking progress and holding the USA back from truly competing with Europe and China.

 

As soon as there are as many ev charging stations, FOR ALL EV BRANDS, as there are gas stations now, I'll be OK with it.

Oh...btw...USA wins when it comes to being racist.

 

Great. Did you know that Tesla is opening a supercharger factory in China. That’ll supply all the superchargers needed for the transition in USA and the world. They are spearheading a process wherein these can be installed in 48hours versus several weeks for the competition. If the Biden administration applies the 1 billion grant, Tesla has indicated that it will open the superchargers for others too. Problem already solved.

 

how the F is that solved?

Nothing is solved when you used words like IF and Indicated. A problem is only solved when it is ACTUALLY SOLVED.

 

Are you smoking crack? Problem already solved? You're high!



I see ZERO charging stations anywhere near me.. ZERO!

 

But IF you have 100 charging stations and Biden and Elon indicated that they are considering it.

Problem solved. now you can go buy a Tesla.

 

I am not saying anything. I’m sure UAW has its role in protecting the rights of American workers. As they said, you draw your own conclusions.
All I want is the fastest transition to electric mobility in the world. Don’t want to see USA being a follower in this critical transformation in automotive history. I would rather see them as a leader. Hopefully the government policies in future will help in realizing that goal.

 

lol!

The guy is so high he's on Mars. I'm starting to think he's a 16 year old kid.

 

Are you paying attention?

 

It's honestly not even worth it to deal with these two anymore. It's not going to change anything other than raising my blood pressure. Everything he's saying is about as true as Trump being reinstated any day now and Sandy Munro is the My Pillow guy of the EV world.

I'm just going to enjoy my car while the wanna-be EV dude continues to ruin the planet with his RDX.

 

Thank you.

 

So why was GM and Ford at this EV event which was actually a UAW event when the Mach-E is made in Mexico and GM is moving EV production to Mexico

 

So the proposed EV bill will not affect Ford and GM electric operations for cars and SUVs unless they manufacture in USA, right? Seems a bummer.
I hope they manufacture at least the EV pick up trucks in here. Anyone has more information?

 

Due to the chicken tax, pickups kinda have to be made in the US.

 

Hoo boy, read the news that the proposed EV tax credit is only available for those whose annual income is less than $100k. Shucks.
I guess that eliminates most of the Acurazine members from getting the credit, right….? ….

The other requirement is that the vehicle cost should be less than $40k, which is good in fact as it incentivizes manufacturers to make cheaper cars for the public and not to indirectly benefit by raising prices.

 

 

So only for Model 3 SR+ ….. dang

Well, I guess it is for the greater good. Good for those who qualify.