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Old 09-22-2021, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
CA Registration is based on the cost of the car. If his Model 3 is around 50-60k then $5xx is about right...
doesn’t CA have an additional EV fee on the registration? I recall reading about it starting last year.
Old 09-22-2021, 12:41 PM
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I dont know about the EV fee. But i am paying over $600 for my registration. and mine is not EV...
Was paying $5xx for my last F30 340i...

So a Model 3 that costs around $50k, EV or not, the registration fee you friend was quoted was not high, even by non-EV standard.
Old 09-22-2021, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mizouse
doesn’t CA have an additional EV fee on the registration? I recall reading about it starting last year.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/wasapp/FeeCal...VehicleForm.do


I went online and used $50k EV as an reference point.. $595 a year. But that includes the $100 first year EV fee that you dont get charged for the following years.
So 595 for Yr 1, should be cheaper starting year 2.

Yah it is slightly more expensive than non-EV, but it is really insignificant if your friend can afford a $50k Model 3...

Last edited by oonowindoo; 09-22-2021 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 09-22-2021, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
More importantly how did the Tesla hit the wall..... The wall must have moved on its own!!
This. It's not possible to crash while on autopilot.

But, even if it were to happen (which it can't) how/why did the car keep driving after crashing? This is why stunna and comfy furiously jerking off over autopilot are part of the problem. It WILL NOT DRIVE FOR YOU, if I have to tug on the wheel, the car is not driving, it is not full self driving at all. It's keeping me in my lane while pushing me to pay attention to make sure I don't crash. Until I can get shit housed and have my car drive me home, it IS NOT full self driving.

Originally Posted by Mizouse
doesn’t CA have an additional EV fee on the registration? I recall reading about it starting last year.
Probably. MN has a $75/yr EV charge on top of usual registration fees to make up for gas tax losses. Registration is based on age and value of the car. $500ish is probably about right even here.
Old 09-22-2021, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
This. It's not possible to crash while on autopilot.

But, even if it were to happen (which it can't) how/why did the car keep driving after crashing? This is why stunna and comfy furiously jerking off over autopilot are part of the problem. It WILL NOT DRIVE FOR YOU, if I have to tug on the wheel, the car is not driving, it is not full self driving at all. It's keeping me in my lane while pushing me to pay attention to make sure I don't crash. Until I can get shit housed and have my car drive me home, it IS NOT full self driving.



Probably. MN has a $75/yr EV charge on top of usual registration fees to make up for gas tax losses. Registration is based on age and value of the car. $500ish is probably about right even here.

Yup... this constant propaganda BS is giving some idiots a false idea of somehow Tesla could drive itself home without human... which it can't.

I read some comments from Tesla fanboys about this crash saying "Oh imagine if she wasn't in a Tesla??" Well if she didn't have a Tesla, maybe she would not have gotten into the car in the first place if she knew her traditional ICE car can't drive itself home.
Maybe she would have called a Uber or have her husband pick her up and avoid this DUI altogether.

We will never know...
Old 09-22-2021, 01:56 PM
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I saw this.

https://electrek.co/2020/07/10/calif...o-175-in-july/

Starting this month, a one-time upfront registration fee of $100 will be charged for 2020 model year plug-in vehicles in California. That will be followed by an annual registration fee of up to $175 based on the vehicle’s value.



An EV worth $5,000 will pay a $25 fee. The amount climbs up to $175 per year for a plug-in electric vehicle worth $60,000 and higher.



Originally Posted by oonowindoo
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/wasapp/FeeCal...VehicleForm.do


I went online and used $50k EV as an reference point.. $595 a year. But that includes the $100 first year EV fee that you dont get charged for the following years.
So 595 for Yr 1, should be cheaper starting year 2.

Yah it is slightly more expensive than non-EV, but it is really insignificant if your friend can afford a $50k Model 3...





Old 09-22-2021, 02:09 PM
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Yah the key word is "Up to $175" for EV that is $60k and higher...

So for a Model 3 that costs $50k.. it might be just $50 or $60 a year more than a similar priced Non-EV....

a $50k Model 3 CA Registration is $595
a $63k M340i CA registration is $640
a $63k EV CA registration is $706


Last edited by oonowindoo; 09-22-2021 at 02:12 PM.
Old 09-22-2021, 02:13 PM
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Old 09-22-2021, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mizouse
Actually when i used the DMV link to calculate the registration fee for ICE car @ 63k.. it was $726

So i guess that is what i will see next year...

Yah EV is actually cheaper...
Old 09-22-2021, 02:24 PM
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So I was reading some posts by owners of the M3. Said their initial registration fees were cheaper. The renewal fee was more.

Man… I was really considering an M3, but I’m too cheep to pay that plus increased insurance

Registration for my 14 year old 3G TL was like $210 too
Old 09-22-2021, 02:40 PM
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Yolo
Old 09-22-2021, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Mizouse
So I was reading some posts by owners of the M3. Said their initial registration fees were cheaper. The renewal fee was more.

Man… I was really considering an M3, but I’m too cheep to pay that plus increased insurance

Registration for my 14 year old 3G TL was like $210 too
You'll probably more than make up for that registration difference in fuel savings, especially so in CA. Based on the Goog, average price per kWh in the LA area is ~$0.193/kWh and premium gas is $4.70/gal. If you have a M3LR or M3P, it's an 85kWh battery so it would cost you ~$17 to fill it up from dead to full if you pay full price and don't have any time of day plan with your electric company. The cost to fill 300 miles of range in a car that I'm assuming gets 30mpg would be $47...so you save $30 every tank you fill with the EV. Wouldn't take a very long time to recoup $150 in registration fees.

Insurance is a crap shoot everywhere and is specific to different people's situations. Like I said, mine went DOWN from the Golf and Progressive didn't even recognize the Golf R as anything other than a normal Golf so it's not like it went from hot hatch to EV, it went from econobox to EV.
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Old 09-22-2021, 03:08 PM
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Yea I’m but bad at maff. I see big number and I’m like give me best price!
Old 09-22-2021, 03:10 PM
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I'm also pretty sure there are big incentives on EV's in CA still too. You just can't get the federal one on Teslas anymore...yet.
Old 09-22-2021, 03:47 PM
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How much does he have to spend to convert the charging outlet at home, so he would be able to get a full charge overnight?
Old 09-22-2021, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
How much does he have to spend to convert the charging outlet at home, so he would be able to get a full charge overnight?
Anywhere from $50 to $1500. I'm not sure what his home situation is and what the electrical panel in his house looks like. It cost me ~$50 in materials to DIY the 20A outlet in my garage and I've read of as much as $1500 to run a second meter from some random place in the house to the garage. All depends on the situation.

How much is an oil change on a premium gas car? Brake pads/rotors? Other fluid changes that are required? Spark plugs? Drive belts? The cost of installing an outlet is a wash when it comes to the no maintenance expenses from an EV.
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Old 09-22-2021, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Anywhere from $50 to $1500. I'm not sure what his home situation is and what the electrical panel in his house looks like. It cost me ~$50 in materials to DIY the 20A outlet in my garage and I've read of as much as $1500 to run a second meter from some random place in the house to the garage. All depends on the situation.

How much is an oil change on a premium gas car? Brake pads/rotors? Other fluid changes that are required? Spark plugs? Drive belts? The cost of installing an outlet is a wash when it comes to the no maintenance expenses from an EV.
For me personally? $0... i return my car before i have to pay for anything... including oil change.
Old 09-22-2021, 03:58 PM
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Can you use an extension cable to charge a M3?

I can’t park my car in my garage. It’s typical Asian hoarder style and with my home gym stuff.

Old 09-22-2021, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Mizouse
Can you use an extension cable to charge a M3?

I can’t park my car in my garage. It’s typical Asian hoarder style and with my home gym stuff.
So you are one of those who use their garage as a room not judging

I dont know about typical extension cable. But My boss paid some electrician and did some conversion when he had the P100D, his charger cable was about 20 feet long...
Old 09-23-2021, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
How would they know that?
Easy, Tesla can run their FSD software (even if the owner hasn’t purchased it) and use that data for insurance purposes. If someone is deviating wildly from their parameters of good driving, then their insurance premiums will go up. None of the competing insurance guys can have that information. Even if the insurance guys installed that driver monitoring hardware (which reduce premiums, it mostly checks sudden acceleration and braking based on GPS info).
Okay, this is a wild guesstimate.
Old 09-23-2021, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Comfy
Easy, Tesla can run their FSD software (even if the owner hasn’t purchased it) and use that data for insurance purposes. If someone is deviating wildly from their parameters of good driving, then their insurance premiums will go up. None of the competing insurance guys can have that information. Even if the insurance guys installed that driver monitoring hardware (which reduce premiums, it mostly checks sudden acceleration and braking based on GPS info).
Okay, this is a wild guesstimate.
And just like that, privacy means nothing.
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Old 09-23-2021, 08:55 PM
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You do give up that privacy when you install the hardware from insurance, right? It’s similar. You want lower rates, you give them something. It’s nothing new. But I’m sure it’s not that simple also.
Old 09-24-2021, 06:05 AM
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WASHINGTON — Tesla is pressing President Joe Biden's administration and a U.S. appeals court to move quickly to hike civil penalties for automakers failing to meet fuel economy requirements.

Electric vehicle maker Tesla sells credits to other automakers to help them meet government vehicle emissions requirements, and says those credits are less valuable due to changes in rules made by former President Donald Trump's administration. Tesla relies on those credits; it earned its first annual profit in 2020, but without $1.3 billion in credits, it would have lost money.

Tesla met virtually on Aug. 30 with officials from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), according to a document filed by the agency last week.

On Aug. 18, the NHTSA issued a notice saying it could impose higher penalties for prior model years for automakers failing to meet fuel efficiency requirements but will first consider public comments.

Automakers have warned that hiking penalties could cost them at least $1 billion annually, both for failing to meet the rules and higher prices for credits used to meet the rules.

The Trump administration in its final days in January delayed a 2016 regulation that more than doubled penalties for automakers failing to meet Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) requirements.

The government memo said Tesla suggested NHTSA withdraw Trump's action immediately, saying it "produces continuing uncertainty in investments and transactions across the industry, and any delays will continue to have deleterious effects on the credit market until the issue is resolved." It added Tesla believes "any delays will continue to have deleterious effects on the credit market."

Tesla on Aug. 27 separately again asked the Second Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals to quickly reinstate higher penalties. The court rejected Tesla's request in April for immediate action pending NHTSA's review.

"The uncertainty perpetuated by NHTSA’s sluggish rulemaking pace is thus compounded by the likelihood of yet another round of litigation," Tesla wrote, warning uncertainty "may linger for several more years."

A group representing major automakers including General Motors, Toyota Motor, Ford Motor and Volkswagen, asked the court to reject Tesla's request. "That Tesla might benefit from more certainty about the worth of the CAFE credits that it has amassed is hardly a reason to cut off an ongoing administrative process," the group wrote in a court filing.

Under former President Barack Obama, higher penalties were to start in 2019 model year, but Trump set the effective date as the 2022 model year. NHTSA is considering reinstating the Obama rule.

Those prior year CAFE penalties, which have still not been assessed, could cost Chrysler parent Stellantis hundreds of millions of dollars, while boosting the value of credits sold by Tesla.

Stellantis said in August costs related to potential higher CAFE penalties could be about 521 million euros ($609 million). Fiat Chrysler paid nearly $150 million for failing to meet 2016 and 2017 requirements.
Tesla pushes U.S. to boost fuel economy penalties on other automakers (autoblog.com)
Old 09-24-2021, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Mizouse
Can you use an extension cable to charge a M3?

I can’t park my car in my garage. It’s typical Asian hoarder style and with my home gym stuff.
No but the power cord it comes with is pretty long. I think it's like 15-20ft. You don't want to use a 240V extension cord lol. You could pretty easily plug your car in on your driveway if you get the outlet installed close to the garage door and back the car up to the door.

Originally Posted by Comfy
Easy, Tesla can run their FSD software (even if the owner hasn’t purchased it) and use that data for insurance purposes. If someone is deviating wildly from their parameters of good driving, then their insurance premiums will go up. None of the competing insurance guys can have that information. Even if the insurance guys installed that driver monitoring hardware (which reduce premiums, it mostly checks sudden acceleration and braking based on GPS info).
Okay, this is a wild guesstimate.
Lol, I wouldn't sign up for this. Insurance companies weigh risk based on history not on active monitoring of driving habits. There are plenty of insurance companies that have monitoring hardware that can be installed but it's very much optional and not a condition of insurance. Also, since I had it on one of my cars for a bit, it doesn't save you much money at all. It's like $13 every 6 months. Pass.

Originally Posted by Comfy
You do give up that privacy when you install the hardware from insurance, right? It’s similar. You want lower rates, you give them something. It’s nothing new. But I’m sure it’s not that simple also.
Sure but it shouldn't be a condition of insurance. Saying it will be is going to tank the whole program.
Old 09-24-2021, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
I'm also pretty sure there are big incentives on EV's in CA still too. You just can't get the federal one on Teslas anymore...yet.
Meh, there is an instant $1500 rebate from CA, and then there is a $2k one you can apply for, but its been exhausted since April and there is a waitlist without knowing if it will be replenished.
Old 09-24-2021, 09:04 AM
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That's $1500 more than I got...
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
That's $1500 more than I got...
Think of this way, you already saved from buying in whatever month you bought since there is almost a automatics monthly price increase now...


I was still sour about not getting my current payment lower when i ordered my car considering there is almost a 150 a month difference in payment when there was only $2k difference in MSRP.... until now... everyone is paying above MSRP.. i feel ok now
Old 09-24-2021, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1

Lol, I wouldn't sign up for this. Insurance companies weigh risk based on history not on active monitoring of driving habits. There are plenty of insurance companies that have monitoring hardware that can be installed but it's very much optional and not a condition of insurance. Also, since I had it on one of my cars for a bit, it doesn't save you much money at all. It's like $13 every 6 months. Pass.



Sure but it shouldn't be a condition of insurance. Saying it will be is going to tank the whole program.
No I’m not saying it as a requirement of purchasing insurance, but an option to reduce premiums significantly. I read about the guy in new work who had to pay $500/ month for model 3. He might be willing to work with Tesla if he falls within their “good driver parameters” and Tesla have him an option based on his driving style.
I haven’t opted for the insurance hardware as well since I don’t like that idea too. The cost difference if really significant could sway me one way or the other though.
Old 09-24-2021, 11:46 AM
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if he got quoted for $500 a month for insurance for a Model Y, then it has to do with him, not the car or the insurance.. ....

Gosh...
Old 09-24-2021, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
if he got quoted for $500 a month for insurance for a Model Y, then it has to do with him, not the car or the insurance.. ....

Gosh...
This.

Insurance is HEAVILY based more so on the driver and where they live FAR more so than what they drive. Like I said, my insurance went down from the Golf when I got the Tesla and it was approximately the same (within $20 every 6mo) as a F80 M3.
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Old 09-24-2021, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
if he got quoted for $500 a month for insurance for a Model Y, then it has to do with him, not the car or the insurance.. ....

Gosh...
True, all I’m saying is Tesla has an advantage here since they have some information which no one else has that they could take advantage of.
Old 09-24-2021, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Comfy
True, all I’m saying is Tesla has an advantage here since they have some information which no one else has that they could take advantage of.
Insurance companies have had those plug in devices that measure speed, braking, g forces, etc for years. That information doesn't net you anywhere close to the discount you think it does.
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Old 09-24-2021, 11:56 AM
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^
I've also read it's really easy to erase a large chunk of the discount with 1 or 2 'unsafe' moves.
Longish article a couple years ago about a guy that tried it & ended up around $0.00 saved because it dinged him for hard braking to avoid an animal that ran in the road.

Those OBD2 monitoring devices had some bad rep for causing vehicular issues as well, though those may be improved by now. Saw things from drained batteries, to CEL type issues.
Old 09-24-2021, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Comfy
True, all I’m saying is Tesla has an advantage here since they have some information which no one else has that they could take advantage of.
What information and what advantage?

Everything that Tesla could collect from a driver (with their consent) can also be collected by everyone else with a different device (with their consent).... so What advantages are you talking about? I am so confused...

If Tesla is collecting all the privacy data without consent, then they should be sued to the ground.
Old 09-24-2021, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
This.

Insurance is HEAVILY based more so on the driver and where they live FAR more so than what they drive. Like I said, my insurance went down from the Golf when I got the Tesla and it was approximately the same (within $20 every 6mo) as a F80 M3.
interestingly a few years back my friend said his insurance significantly lowered when he went from a Toyota MR Spyder to a C6 corvette.
Old 09-24-2021, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Mizouse
interestingly a few years back my friend said his insurance significantly lowered when he went from a Toyota MR Spyder to a C6 corvette.
For average driver with good driving record, the current market, the car itself, age and other factors play bigger role.

For people with fucked up record, that DUI, 5 car accidents in 2 years, 16 years old boy, are way bigger factors than the car itself...

Everyone' situation is all different, Also "significant" is subjective. He could have gone from 800 a year to 500 a year.. that is more than 40% in saving. It is significant on face value. But it is still only 300 bucks a year. Also maybe he had multiple points on his record, now he doesn't. Maybe he was too young before and now he is in his late 30s or 40s... But regardless... those will not result in $6000 a year for a $60k car.

That is VERY different than getting a quote for $6000 a year for a model Y....

My S2000 costs almost double of what i am paying for my M340i despite it being 50% cheaper... So you can say i lowered my insurance significantly that was going from $1700 a year to $1100 a year now... But is it really significant? not really. That is $50 a month....
The point we are trying to make is if someone is receiving for quote for $6000 a year for a Model Y, there has to be way bigger issues in play than just the car itself. Getting Tesla insurance is not going to help him like the BS that Comfy is suggesting...

Last edited by oonowindoo; 09-24-2021 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:57 PM
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I know. I’m just saying.
Old 09-24-2021, 01:04 PM
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yah when we usually talk about significant saving in car insurance, we are usually talking about hundreds.. maybe a thousand???

But $6000 a year?


My boss's Model X P100D (150k) + his Panamera Turbo ($190k)'s insurance was less than $3.5k a year.... and i would not say he has the best record.

Now.. that new Bentley... that is a different story... you can literally buy a new car every year with how much the insurance cost on that thing...
Old 09-24-2021, 01:50 PM
  #2279  
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Insurance companies have had those plug in devices that measure speed, braking, g forces, etc for years. That information doesn't net you anywhere close to the discount you think it does.
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
What information and what advantage?

Everything that Tesla could collect from a driver (with their consent) can also be collected by everyone else with a different device (with their consent).... so What advantages are you talking about? I am so confused...

If Tesla is collecting all the privacy data without consent, then they should be sued to the ground.
Why are you confused? It’s the same thing I’m trying to say. Only Tesla has the FSD software (other insurances don’t). I’m only talking about those customers who are willing, Tesla can run the FSD software and track their decision making based on FSD which would be eventually multiple times safer than human driving.
Other insurances can only get the acceleration/ braking/ G forces based on GPS. They don’t get information on a real time decision making based on current road situation with cameras. They don’t have the software which can drive vehicle itself, analyze, compare and benchmark human driving skills.

Okay enough speculation for this topic and thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Hopefully the FSD button will be released today and may be Sam can try it on and tell us how good / crappy it is.
Old 09-24-2021, 01:56 PM
  #2280  
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Why do you need insurance if you have FSD? Why do you have to make any decisions if you have FSD? If you dont make any driving decisions, what is there to track? your thoughts?
What you are saying are contradictive

You shouldn't need Insurance, Seat belt, airbag or even seats with FSD... all you need is a mattress and so you can take a nap comfortably...

Also we should stop using the word driving because you are basically being moved in a box by Elon... Let's call it "we are being transported" like a package from Amazon.

Last edited by oonowindoo; 09-24-2021 at 02:02 PM.


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