Tesla: Development and Technology News
#1721
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Which one, because he's been arrested a few times. IIRC possession of a firearm and something to do with drugs.
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Comfy (08-16-2022)
#1722
Race Director
Thread Starter
Tesla states on its page about safety and security features that all Model 3 and Model Y came with cabin cameras, while only Model S and Model X units made after 2021 have them. Curiously, these cameras only started monitoring drive awareness in May 2021. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) now wants Tesla to explain their purpose and effectiveness.
16 photos
The safety regulator is investigating crashes with Autopilot and Full Self-Driving (FSD), in which driver monitoring could have played a crucial role in avoiding deaths. Until the May 2021 update, the cameras were supposed to prevent robotaxis from being trashed, as Musk confirmed in a tweet on April 12, 2020. In other words, they would only be used if Tesla ever accomplished its CEO's repeated autonomous driving promises, which it never did.
According to Reuters, NHTSA gave Tesla until October 12 to answer the nine-page letter filled with questions about "the role that the Cabin Camera plays in the enforcement of driver engagement/attentiveness." The safety regulator also wants "recoverable data elements pointing to its influence." In other words, it wants Tesla to prove the cabin camera is effective in preventing distraction and overreliance.
Consumer Reports proved the cabin camera could not avoid these scenarios in a test with its Model S with FSD. The consumer protection organization covered the camera and got no warning or disengagement of the system. Tesla only updated that last June, but it only works with FSD, not Autopilot.
Tesla’s advanced driver assistance systems (ADAS) have been under massive scrutiny lately. The California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) said the company was misleading customers with Autopilot and FSD. According to Reuters, the company asked the DMV for a hearing. It wants to present its defense on the DMV accusations.
Although NHTSA seems to be finally acting, some people think it gave Tesla an unreasonable amount of time to answer. Some asked why doesn’t the safety regulator let Tesla answer next year or even later. Losing its Senate-confirmed administrator only two months after confirmation also makes people wonder what is happening at NHTSA. The U.S. is facing the highest traffic-death rates in years, and the safety agency quickly needs to show it is working to prevent them quickly.
16 photos
The safety regulator is investigating crashes with Autopilot and Full Self-Driving (FSD), in which driver monitoring could have played a crucial role in avoiding deaths. Until the May 2021 update, the cameras were supposed to prevent robotaxis from being trashed, as Musk confirmed in a tweet on April 12, 2020. In other words, they would only be used if Tesla ever accomplished its CEO's repeated autonomous driving promises, which it never did.
According to Reuters, NHTSA gave Tesla until October 12 to answer the nine-page letter filled with questions about "the role that the Cabin Camera plays in the enforcement of driver engagement/attentiveness." The safety regulator also wants "recoverable data elements pointing to its influence." In other words, it wants Tesla to prove the cabin camera is effective in preventing distraction and overreliance.
Consumer Reports proved the cabin camera could not avoid these scenarios in a test with its Model S with FSD. The consumer protection organization covered the camera and got no warning or disengagement of the system. Tesla only updated that last June, but it only works with FSD, not Autopilot.
Tesla’s advanced driver assistance systems (ADAS) have been under massive scrutiny lately. The California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) said the company was misleading customers with Autopilot and FSD. According to Reuters, the company asked the DMV for a hearing. It wants to present its defense on the DMV accusations.
Although NHTSA seems to be finally acting, some people think it gave Tesla an unreasonable amount of time to answer. Some asked why doesn’t the safety regulator let Tesla answer next year or even later. Losing its Senate-confirmed administrator only two months after confirmation also makes people wonder what is happening at NHTSA. The U.S. is facing the highest traffic-death rates in years, and the safety agency quickly needs to show it is working to prevent them quickly.
#1723
Race Director
Thread Starter
Tesla has just updated its website related to the Tesla Semi, refreshing some of the specs and releasing new images and videos.
The Tesla Semi is currently expected to enter the market by the end of this year, according to the company's CEO Elon Musk.
One of the most interesting things is that the button to order/reserve the vehicle has disappeared, while there is a new one - "Get updates."".
We can only guess that there are two reasons for that: Tesla already has a lot of reservations (probably a four-digit and maybe even a five-digit number), which exceeds the near-term supply. The other reason might be the necessity to increase the prices (originally announced in 2017). The new website does not contain pricing info - previously prices of regular versions varied from $150,000 (standard range version) to $180,000 (long range version).Tesla describes the Semi as "a Beast" - "More powerful, more efficient and fully electric. Semi is the future of trucking."
The company has maintained the core numbers, including two battery versions for about 300 miles (483 km) or 500 miles (804 km) of driving range when fully loaded.
The exact battery capacity has never been released, but assuming the expected energy consumption at "less than 2 kWh per mile", we can assume that it must be about 600 kWh and 1,000 kWh (1 MWh) depending on the version.
The gross combination weight of the Tesla Semi with a fully loaded trailer is 82,000 lbs (37,195 kg).
With such a load, the Tesla Semi is promised to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph (96.5 /km/h) in 20 seconds, as well as being able to achieve a highway speed limit at a 5% grade. Those are very important practical measures to smoothly operate the truck - merge safely and keep pace with traffic as well as drive up steep grades.
According to the refreshed website, the production version of the Tesla Semi will be equipped with three independent motors on the rear axles, compared to four in the initial specs.
A new thing appears to be the charging info: up to 70% of range can be replenished in 30 minutes, using "Tesla’s Semi Chargers," which we believe refers to Tesla Megachargers.
Combining the charging time with the estimated battery capacity, we can calculate that the average charging power over a 70% state-of-charge (SOC) window is as high as 840 kW or 1,400 kW (1.4 MW).
It's pretty high power output, although nothing extraordinary on the C-level (in relation to the battery pack size): an average of about 1.4C.
Tesla mentioned also that the vehicle is expected to save up to $200,000 within its first three years of ownership on energy (electricity vs. fuel):
"Charging with electricity is approximately 2.5 times cheaper per mile than refueling with diesel.* Operators can see estimated fuel savings of up to $200,000 within their first three years of ownership. With remote diagnostics, over-the-air software updates and fewer moving parts to maintain, operators will spend less time at service centers and more time on the road.
*Based on average diesel prices in California between February 2022–July 2022 and typical electric rates."
It will be interesting to see when and where Tesla will start series production of the Tesla Semi, as well as how the ramp-up will progress.
The Tesla Semi is currently expected to enter the market by the end of this year, according to the company's CEO Elon Musk.
One of the most interesting things is that the button to order/reserve the vehicle has disappeared, while there is a new one - "Get updates."".
We can only guess that there are two reasons for that: Tesla already has a lot of reservations (probably a four-digit and maybe even a five-digit number), which exceeds the near-term supply. The other reason might be the necessity to increase the prices (originally announced in 2017). The new website does not contain pricing info - previously prices of regular versions varied from $150,000 (standard range version) to $180,000 (long range version).Tesla describes the Semi as "a Beast" - "More powerful, more efficient and fully electric. Semi is the future of trucking."
The company has maintained the core numbers, including two battery versions for about 300 miles (483 km) or 500 miles (804 km) of driving range when fully loaded.
The exact battery capacity has never been released, but assuming the expected energy consumption at "less than 2 kWh per mile", we can assume that it must be about 600 kWh and 1,000 kWh (1 MWh) depending on the version.
The gross combination weight of the Tesla Semi with a fully loaded trailer is 82,000 lbs (37,195 kg).
With such a load, the Tesla Semi is promised to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph (96.5 /km/h) in 20 seconds, as well as being able to achieve a highway speed limit at a 5% grade. Those are very important practical measures to smoothly operate the truck - merge safely and keep pace with traffic as well as drive up steep grades.
According to the refreshed website, the production version of the Tesla Semi will be equipped with three independent motors on the rear axles, compared to four in the initial specs.
A new thing appears to be the charging info: up to 70% of range can be replenished in 30 minutes, using "Tesla’s Semi Chargers," which we believe refers to Tesla Megachargers.
Combining the charging time with the estimated battery capacity, we can calculate that the average charging power over a 70% state-of-charge (SOC) window is as high as 840 kW or 1,400 kW (1.4 MW).
It's pretty high power output, although nothing extraordinary on the C-level (in relation to the battery pack size): an average of about 1.4C.
Tesla mentioned also that the vehicle is expected to save up to $200,000 within its first three years of ownership on energy (electricity vs. fuel):
"Charging with electricity is approximately 2.5 times cheaper per mile than refueling with diesel.* Operators can see estimated fuel savings of up to $200,000 within their first three years of ownership. With remote diagnostics, over-the-air software updates and fewer moving parts to maintain, operators will spend less time at service centers and more time on the road.
*Based on average diesel prices in California between February 2022–July 2022 and typical electric rates."
It will be interesting to see when and where Tesla will start series production of the Tesla Semi, as well as how the ramp-up will progress.
#1724
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
#1725
Team Owner
You can access your archives at Elon's onlyfan page
#1726
Sanest Florida Man
one of the biggest improvements of this release is unprotected left turns.
Last edited by #1 STUNNA; 08-22-2022 at 05:27 PM.
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Comfy (10-01-2022)
#1727
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
FSD price jumping to $15,000 in September.
#1728
Ex-OEM King
That's a lot of money to pay for something that:
a.) doesn't work
b.) you have to audition to even have the opportunity to find out that (a) is true
a.) doesn't work
b.) you have to audition to even have the opportunity to find out that (a) is true
#1729
My first Avatar....
#1730
What are you guys are going to say when the value of FSD will be over $50-100k? Currently it’s still beta, so the questions about qualifying for it is moot, you are only paying for future capability. So those who have bought it now would’ve got a deal of a lifetime. .
#1731
Azine Jabroni
It's still pretty terrible.
#1732
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
FSD is not an investment. When you sell a vehicle with FSD, you might get ~$2k more than a car without. Tossing around a supposed value of $50-100k is laughable.
#1733
Team Owner
Usually you get compensated for being in the clinical trials.... in Musk's world, you have to pay him to be in the trial to see if you will get killed or not
The value of FSD will be over 50-100k? WTF the car doesn't even cost that much
The value of FSD will be over 50-100k? WTF the car doesn't even cost that much
#1734
Ex-OEM King
The current value is $0 with a straight up gamble of $15k on IF it'll work, not WHEN.
#1735
I believe you guys are smart enough to understand what is being said. The $50-100k value could be easily achieved if FSD is capable of autonomous driving with no one in driver seat. That means people can easily “rent out” their car to the “fleet” and make money with that during the time they are not using the car, / time other than commute time (with much less worry about it being misused / trashed).
Yes companies such as Waymo, Uber etc can do that too, but they have to invest in the hardware for each vehicle, whereas Tesla will make money selling each car meanwhile. The last I heard, Uber has left the playing field.
FSD software price would be easily $50k or more when that happens.
Elon has also remarked once that when these things unfold, it doesn’t even make sense to sell cars to customers at all. The manufacturers might use all cars for their own fleets.
Yes companies such as Waymo, Uber etc can do that too, but they have to invest in the hardware for each vehicle, whereas Tesla will make money selling each car meanwhile. The last I heard, Uber has left the playing field.
FSD software price would be easily $50k or more when that happens.
Elon has also remarked once that when these things unfold, it doesn’t even make sense to sell cars to customers at all. The manufacturers might use all cars for their own fleets.
Last edited by Comfy; 08-24-2022 at 09:53 PM.
#1736
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I fully understand what you were suggesting. However, I have a REALLY hard time believing that the current hardware being sold today is capable of that functionality.
#1737
Team Owner
#1738
Ex-OEM King
How would you know that? Is it because you have one and can actually first hand attest to its performance or something?
#1739
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
#1740
Sanest Florida Man
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civicdrivr (09-02-2022)
#1741
Sanest Florida Man
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Comfy (09-04-2022)
#1742
No that’s obviously fake. You can’t post such videos here. Only those who own it are allowed post anything about it.
#1743
Ex-OEM King
You guys don't ever post videos of when FSD shits the bed though...which is more common than it working.
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civicdrivr (09-06-2022)
#1744
Team Owner
She should be sleeping with FSD crossing 4 lanes making a left turn, why did she have her hands on the steering wheel?
#1745
NCAP results tell the true story.
Wondering why didn’t they stomp on the accelerator so that they can show that the car hit the mannequin.
Wondering why didn’t they stomp on the accelerator so that they can show that the car hit the mannequin.
Last edited by Comfy; 09-08-2022 at 09:29 AM.
#1746
Sanest Florida Man
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Comfy (10-01-2022)
#1747
Team Owner
NCAP results tell the true story.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/...Dm6e9nq2VEQS9A
Wondering why didn’t they stomp on the accelerator so that they can show that the car hit the mannequin.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/...Dm6e9nq2VEQS9A
Wondering why didn’t they stomp on the accelerator so that they can show that the car hit the mannequin.
News flash, almost all the new cars equipped with driving assistance package can do that.
But i personally dont believe in anything with statements like this : "The video proves Tesla Vision is the future!!
@elonmusk we believe in you."
#1748
Race Director
Thread Starter
At Tesla Battery Day, Elon Musk promised the new 4680 cells would be revolutionary. They would give the EV maker an edge that even the most promising car companies would only achieve many years from when Tesla first offered them. The first teardowns show some key elements are missing, which makes 4680 cells just ordinary NMC 811 batteries, even if bigger than most of the other cylindrical solutions.
7 photos
Taylor Ogan created a Twitter thread to explain each of the promises that the production of 4680 cells has failed to fulfill. The first one is that they would have silicon in the anode. Although the CEO of Snow Bull Capital talked about the “first teardown” and presented Munro Live’s video in his tweets, we have found another one, conducted by the University of California (UC) San Diego and shared by The Limiting Factor.
While the Munro Live team obtained a 4680 battery from a Model Y made in Texas that Munro & Associates bought, The Limiting Factor got its 4680 cell from Galileo Russell from Hyperchange. We have no idea how the Tesla investor and YouTuber managed to obtain a 4680 battery six months ago or even earlier than that. Both videos confirm that both versions of the 4680 battery use graphite, not silicon.
Another promise Musk made at the Tesla Battery Day was that the 4680 cells would use a cobalt-free, high-nickel cathode. Munro’s teardown analyzed the cathode and said it is a typical NMC 811 chemistry. In other words, it does not present two of the main advantages these cells would have. The Limiting Factor also stressed that the battery shell is three times thicker than that used in 2170 cells, dropping their energy density.
Ogan also asked about the dry battery electrode coating (DBE) technology Tesla was supposed to use in the 4680 cells more than a year ago. It is not clear if the dismantled cells use this technology, but Tesla would probably brag about that if it did. The only promise that seems to have been accomplished is the tabless design. For a battery that was supposed to give an incredible edge to Tesla, calling it disappointing is an understatement.
7 photos
Taylor Ogan created a Twitter thread to explain each of the promises that the production of 4680 cells has failed to fulfill. The first one is that they would have silicon in the anode. Although the CEO of Snow Bull Capital talked about the “first teardown” and presented Munro Live’s video in his tweets, we have found another one, conducted by the University of California (UC) San Diego and shared by The Limiting Factor.
While the Munro Live team obtained a 4680 battery from a Model Y made in Texas that Munro & Associates bought, The Limiting Factor got its 4680 cell from Galileo Russell from Hyperchange. We have no idea how the Tesla investor and YouTuber managed to obtain a 4680 battery six months ago or even earlier than that. Both videos confirm that both versions of the 4680 battery use graphite, not silicon.
Another promise Musk made at the Tesla Battery Day was that the 4680 cells would use a cobalt-free, high-nickel cathode. Munro’s teardown analyzed the cathode and said it is a typical NMC 811 chemistry. In other words, it does not present two of the main advantages these cells would have. The Limiting Factor also stressed that the battery shell is three times thicker than that used in 2170 cells, dropping their energy density.
Ogan also asked about the dry battery electrode coating (DBE) technology Tesla was supposed to use in the 4680 cells more than a year ago. It is not clear if the dismantled cells use this technology, but Tesla would probably brag about that if it did. The only promise that seems to have been accomplished is the tabless design. For a battery that was supposed to give an incredible edge to Tesla, calling it disappointing is an understatement.
#1749
Ex-OEM King
Shocker...
#1750
Sanest Florida Man
Can a gas car refuel itself when the electric grid is down for a month? The eye of a category 4 storm went over this man’s house but his solar panels, powerwall and Model X are all working. He’s the only person on his street with electricity
Last edited by #1 STUNNA; 09-30-2022 at 07:36 PM.
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Comfy (10-01-2022)
#1751
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Not Las Vegas (SF Bay Area)
Age: 40
Posts: 63,308
Received 2,811 Likes
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1,991 Posts
#1752
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Can a gas car refuel itself when the electric grid is down for a month? The eye of a category 4 storm went over this man’s house but his solar panels, powerwall and Model X are all working. He’s the only person on his street with electricity
https://youtu.be/SYO4asWtAuo
https://youtu.be/SYO4asWtAuo
#1753
Yes, the price is high for a replacement roof / solar panel now. Currently it makes sense only to use Tesla solar roof in a new construction so the costs are not too high.
#1754
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Tesla solar roof is not worth it. Panels, sure. But not their roof. They don't even advertise solar roof pricing on the website because 1) it used to be 2.5x the price of panels and 2) who knows when you'll actually get them.
#1755
Team Owner
Would not a natural gas generator and a full tank of fuel in the gas guzzler have the same results that this guy had with panels/wall/Model X?
Last edited by doopstr; 10-02-2022 at 01:44 PM.
#1756
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Natural gas handles cooking and heating in my home. I've got a generator that I plan on adapting to run on natural gas as well, since NG still flows even if power is out. It's not clean but it's much cheaper (at the moment). But in the past, we were still able to cook and (when we had an ice storm and lost power) I was able to heat the house with the fireplace.
If I could get a Powerwall (or any other battery backup) that could power my house for ~2 days for ~$5-7K I would ABSOLUTELY do it. But a single PW is $12.5k, plus install ( and that's IF you can get it without the panels).
If I could get a Powerwall (or any other battery backup) that could power my house for ~2 days for ~$5-7K I would ABSOLUTELY do it. But a single PW is $12.5k, plus install ( and that's IF you can get it without the panels).
#1757
Ex-OEM King
You can also apparently power your house for DAYS with the electric F150 which can send power from the truck's battery pack to your house if your panel is wired to accept it. Can't do that with a Tesla.
#1758
Moderator
So, it depends on the ins company.
The same ins co, also informed us, when we were house shopping, that [along with solar panels] they do not insure homes with: metal roofs, septic systems, or lots over 1 acre.
#1759
Team Owner
https://www.tesla.com/support/transi...g-tesla-vision
Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision
click link for FAQ
Safety is at the core of our design and engineering decisions. In 2021, we began our transition to Tesla Vision by removing radar from Model 3 and Model Y, followed by Model S and Model X in 2022. Today, in most regions around the globe, these vehicles now rely on Tesla Vision, our camera-based Autopilot system.
Since launch, we have continued to make incremental improvements in both feature parity and safety. Compared to radar-equipped vehicles, Model 3 and Model Y with Tesla Vision have either maintained or improved their active safety ratings in the US and Europe, and perform better in pedestrian automatic emergency braking (AEB) intervention.
Today, we are taking the next step in Tesla Vision by removing ultrasonic sensors (USS) from Model 3 and Model Y. We will continue this rollout with Model 3 and Model Y, globally, over the next few months, followed by Model S and Model X in 2023.
Along with the removal of USS, we have simultaneously launched our vision-based occupancy network – currently used in Full Self-Driving (FSD) Beta – to replace the inputs generated by USS. With today’s software, this approach gives Autopilot high-definition spatial positioning, longer range visibility and ability to identify and differentiate between objects. As with many Tesla features, our occupancy network will continue to improve rapidly over time.
For a short period of time during this transition, Tesla Vision vehicles that are not equipped with USS will be delivered with some features temporarily limited or inactive, including:
Given the incremental improvements already achieved with Tesla Vision, and our roadmap of future Autopilot improvements and abilities, we are confident that this is the best strategy for the future of Autopilot and the safety of our customers.
Since launch, we have continued to make incremental improvements in both feature parity and safety. Compared to radar-equipped vehicles, Model 3 and Model Y with Tesla Vision have either maintained or improved their active safety ratings in the US and Europe, and perform better in pedestrian automatic emergency braking (AEB) intervention.
Today, we are taking the next step in Tesla Vision by removing ultrasonic sensors (USS) from Model 3 and Model Y. We will continue this rollout with Model 3 and Model Y, globally, over the next few months, followed by Model S and Model X in 2023.
Along with the removal of USS, we have simultaneously launched our vision-based occupancy network – currently used in Full Self-Driving (FSD) Beta – to replace the inputs generated by USS. With today’s software, this approach gives Autopilot high-definition spatial positioning, longer range visibility and ability to identify and differentiate between objects. As with many Tesla features, our occupancy network will continue to improve rapidly over time.
For a short period of time during this transition, Tesla Vision vehicles that are not equipped with USS will be delivered with some features temporarily limited or inactive, including:
- Park Assist: alerts you of surrounding objects when the vehicle is traveling <5 mph.
- Autopark: automatically maneuvers into parallel or perpendicular parking spaces.
- Summon: manually moves your vehicle forward or in reverse via the Tesla app.
- Smart Summon: navigates your vehicle to your location or location of your choice via the Tesla app.
Given the incremental improvements already achieved with Tesla Vision, and our roadmap of future Autopilot improvements and abilities, we are confident that this is the best strategy for the future of Autopilot and the safety of our customers.
#1760
Team Owner
Is Tesla giving discounts for the unavailable features?