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Old Jan 21, 2009 | 09:34 PM
  #321  
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I feel the need...
 
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Holy P-cars batman!

Def on the list of places to see.
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Old Jan 22, 2009 | 12:45 AM
  #322  
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to say the least.
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Old Jan 22, 2009 | 02:34 AM
  #323  
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holy. fawk.

Yums, I nominate this as your best post, ever. Bravo.
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Old Jan 22, 2009 | 07:27 AM
  #324  
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absolutely spectacular. thanks for all the pics
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Old Jan 22, 2009 | 08:08 AM
  #325  
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pretty fucking huge place and cool.
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Old Jan 22, 2009 | 08:23 AM
  #326  
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so is this a Zaha, or what?
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Old Jan 22, 2009 | 09:01 AM
  #327  
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Awesome.
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Old Jan 22, 2009 | 09:07 AM
  #328  
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yea i really need to visit germany.
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Old Jan 22, 2009 | 10:49 AM
  #329  
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Originally Posted by srika
holy. fawk.

Yums, I nominate this as your best post, ever. Bravo.
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Old Jan 22, 2009 | 11:20 AM
  #330  
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what's everyone's favorite car(s)?

for me it's this one - the 911GT1 race car in the back:



followed by the GT1 street car.



I think these are the mad baddest Porsches ever made.
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Old Jan 22, 2009 | 11:35 AM
  #331  
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Germany FTW...they have the best Auto Museums.
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Old Jan 22, 2009 | 12:08 PM
  #332  
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wow... I am definitely going the next time I visit my cousins in Switzerland. This is worth the drive up to Germany from their place...
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Old Jan 22, 2009 | 02:11 PM
  #333  
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Wow, that museum is reason enough for euro delivery.
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Old Jan 22, 2009 | 04:23 PM
  #334  
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My idea of heaven...Thanks Yumchah. I love it.
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Old Jan 22, 2009 | 05:40 PM
  #335  
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O
M
G

I must go there

A favorite would be impossible to pick, but some of my top pics would be,... GT1(race car), 956, and 917 (all iterations, but esp the longtail)
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Old Jan 22, 2009 | 10:54 PM
  #336  
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I've only been to BMW museum. But yea... I need to do a Euro Trip with guys only.
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Old Jan 23, 2009 | 01:26 AM
  #337  
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omg
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Old Feb 21, 2009 | 04:04 PM
  #338  
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2009 Nissan GTR vs 2009 Porsche 911 GT2 - At the 'Ring

It was a throwaway statement, but once it was reported and widely quoted, it caused quite a controversy. Oh, how we all love a tempest in a teapot.

It went thus. August Achleitner, the demure chief of the Porsche 911 range, was speaking to an Australian Web site when he was questioned about Nissan's claimed 7-minute, 29-second lap of the Nürburgring Nordschleife in a new GT-R. His response was pure nitroglycerin. He reported that Porsche had indeed taken a GT-R to the 'Ring, but that its test driver could only manage a 7-minute, 54-second lap. On the same day, a 911 Turbo and a 911 GT2 ran 7:38 and 7:34, respectively - slightly outside the times previously set by test driver Walter Röhrl, but only by a few seconds. Achleitner then suggested that the only way the GT-R ran the claimed time was using special sticky tires. We'll never know if he uttered that last point wearing an impish grin, but he must have known that such comments would prove explosive among the Porsche and Nissan communities. Sure enough, since the story broke last year, the Web has been alight with claim and counterclaim. In its initial riposte, Nissan offered Porsche, and any other car manufacturer that might be interested, a demonstration of how to extract the best time from the GT-R. Meeeow.

Should Herr Achleitner have opened his mouth? Probably not. Was Nissan's response a little childish? Possibly. Why do we care? Because it has prompted two car manufacturers to start bitch-slapping each other and caused one of the most interesting car debates of our time, namely - is the new $77,840 GT-R really faster around the Nürburgring than the $194,950 pinnacle of Porsche's sports car lineup?

Now, it just so happened that a fortunate confluence of events landed on my lap. I race a Porsche 911 Cup car at the Nürburgring in a series called the VLN, and the day after the final round of the 2008 championship, I was doing a track day with some friends. With this in mind, I asked Porsche if it might lend me a GT2 and phoned a friend who owns a Nissan GT-R to see if I could borrow it. They both said yes, and it looked like we had a story from the gods. But then, when the Monday after the race came, it rained. And after it had rained buckets, it rained some more. And by encouraging the oil that had been deposited all the way around the 12.9-mile lap by an incontinent BMW M3 during Saturday qualifying to reappear from the pavement, a lethal emulsion was formed. In places, you couldn't stand on the track. We didn't drive either car for the whole day. Redefine your personal definition of the word frustration, because it can't possibly compete with the combination of a Porsche 911 GT2, a Nissan GT-R, the Nordschleife, and unusable track conditions. Still, it gave me time to consider the prospect of two cars that could easily carry 160 mph into certain sections of guardrail, neither of them fitted with anything better at restraining a rapidly decelerating human torso than a standard road-car seatbelt. No harnesses - not even a partial roll cage in the case of the GT-R....

Porsche 997 GT2......7 min, 49 sec
Nissan GT-R............7 min, 56 sec

Full Article--------> HERE
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Old Feb 21, 2009 | 10:40 PM
  #339  
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Can we maybe say R compound and a tuned motor for Nissan's claims
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Old Feb 21, 2009 | 10:50 PM
  #340  
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Giving up only 6.9 seconds to the GT2 on the Nordschleife yet weighing some 600lbs more, to Nissan. Love that GT-R more with each read.
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 12:11 AM
  #341  
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
Can we maybe say R compound and a tuned motor for Nissan's claims
Nissan could have changed a lot of minor things for the Ring run. Tires, alignment, pads, ECU flash. I think the couple of articles out there pretty much prove Nissan brought a ringer.
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 12:18 AM
  #342  
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Meh.... I don't care if the GT-R ran a sub 7-second Ring time. I wouldn't be able to stand looking at it every day. If I did I'd have to back into the garage every day so I could look at the sexy rear while avoiding that abomination of a front end
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 12:44 AM
  #343  
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GT2 > gtr
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 12:48 AM
  #344  
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Originally Posted by I Go To Costco
Meh.... I don't care if the GT-R ran a sub 7-second Ring time.

If the GT-R was that fast, I would do everything in my power to own one.
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 06:04 AM
  #345  
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Originally Posted by F23A4
Giving up only 6.9 seconds to the GT2 on the Nordschleife yet weighing some 600lbs more, to Nissan. Love that GT-R more with each read.
Why??? Point is nissan seems to have falsified their claim.
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 11:03 AM
  #346  
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...still a VERY awesome and VERY capable GT car nonetheless, costing FAR LESS than just about every competitor in this segment save for the Z06 (and Viper SRT10 if one excludes the markup). That said, I can't wait to see the Spec V.
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 02:03 PM
  #347  
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So the article proves that this guy who drove both cars could not achieve 7:29 or time the GT-R faster than the GT2. Does this prove that Nissan falsified their claim? or that they used a ringer or special tires? I wouldn't say so.

All it proves is THIS guy, with limited driving experience with both cars (far from the experience of a factory test drive) drove this certain GT2 better than this certain GT-R. It does nothing to disprove that Nissan was able to achieve 7:29 on a stock GT-R. Unless there is evidence or facts of "falsification", such as LYING about the time, or LYING about the tires, or LYING about the car being "stock", no one will ever know.
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 02:35 PM
  #348  
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
...All it proves is THIS guy, with limited driving experience with both cars (far from the experience of a factory test drive) drove this certain GT2 better than this certain GT-R...
Actually, THIS guy is a professional Porsche racer and this certain GT2 was a Club Sport edition from Porsche headquarters. It was a totally impartial test.
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 04:18 PM
  #349  
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
So the article proves that this guy who drove both cars could not achieve 7:29 or time the GT-R faster than the GT2. Does this prove that Nissan falsified their claim? or that they used a ringer or special tires? I wouldn't say so.

All it proves is THIS guy, with limited driving experience with both cars (far from the experience of a factory test drive) drove this certain GT2 better than this certain GT-R. It does nothing to disprove that Nissan was able to achieve 7:29 on a stock GT-R. Unless there is evidence or facts of "falsification", such as LYING about the time, or LYING about the tires, or LYING about the car being "stock", no one will ever know.
Chris Harris is a pro driver with experience racing at the Ring with extensive experience in Porsche cars. He is not your average auto journalist with a few track days and a driving school under their belt.

There is no doubt in my mind that Nissan ran with a ringer. No one has come close to Nissan's "claimed" time.
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 04:38 PM
  #350  
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Originally Posted by Fishy
Actually, THIS guy is a professional Porsche racer and this certain GT2 was a Club Sport edition from Porsche headquarters.

It was? Where does it say that? NTM, the CS has a roll cage. Neither of the cars tested had one.
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 05:40 PM
  #351  
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Originally Posted by sho_nuff1997
It was? Where does it say that? NTM, the CS has a roll cage. Neither of the cars tested had one.
Ah, I thought you were beating a dead horse again for shits and giggles... but we already beat this horse dead last year.

The article you posted is just a re-write of one in Driver's Republic. Go back a few pages and enjoying the flaming debates
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 07:27 PM
  #352  
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Originally Posted by Maximized
Chris Harris is a pro driver with experience racing at the Ring with extensive experience in Porsche cars. He is not your average auto journalist with a few track days and a driving school under their belt.

There is no doubt in my mind that Nissan ran with a ringer. No one has come close to Nissan's "claimed" time.
Yeah, but how much experience did he have driving the GT-R? As much experience as a Nissan test driver? And like someone said before, how impartial is it that an experienced "Porsche" driver did this test?

Whether Nissan ran a ringer or not, who knows? Did they run the ringer on purpose? Maybe the car was a ringer just as maybe you and your friend both drag your exact same cars down at the track and his car consistently beats your car...did he "buy a ringer" on purpose?

What I'm saying is that there's no evidence to say without a doubt that there was any impropriety going on when nissan the 7:29...so until someone actually finds that same car or someone inside Nissan decides to speak up, no on knows.
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 08:41 PM
  #353  
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
Yeah, but how much experience did he have driving the GT-R? As much experience as a Nissan test driver? And like someone said before, how impartial is it that an experienced "Porsche" driver did this test?

Whether Nissan ran a ringer or not, who knows? Did they run the ringer on purpose? Maybe the car was a ringer just as maybe you and your friend both drag your exact same cars down at the track and his car consistently beats your car...did he "buy a ringer" on purpose?

What I'm saying is that there's no evidence to say without a doubt that there was any impropriety going on when nissan the 7:29...so until someone actually finds that same car or someone inside Nissan decides to speak up, no on knows.
But when NO one has come close to the number, Professional drivers who know the ring it seems to me that the car was a ringer. To be able to make up the 25sec+ is a awe-full lot. Especially when its a professional driver to begin with.
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 08:42 PM
  #354  
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Originally Posted by F23A4
...still a VERY awesome and VERY capable GT car nonetheless, costing FAR LESS than just about every competitor in this segment save for the Z06 (and Viper SRT10 if one excludes the markup). That said, I can't wait to see the Spec V.
From what we have know of the car it seems to be a big disappointment.
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 10:25 PM
  #355  
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Why is anyone surprised, this is nissan we're talking about. Id bet next month's mortgage it was a ringer. This co. lives and breathes hp and speed, even if the performance numbers rarely match the amount of power the engine is supposedly putting out.
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 10:44 PM
  #356  
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given the problems with the car i would say who cares.....at least you can take a vette, viper or porchse and repeatedly launch the car and not worry about the trans grenading
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 11:28 PM
  #357  
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
Yeah, but how much experience did he have driving the GT-R? As much experience as a Nissan test driver? And like someone said before, how impartial is it that an experienced "Porsche" driver did this test?

Whether Nissan ran a ringer or not, who knows? Did they run the ringer on purpose? Maybe the car was a ringer just as maybe you and your friend both drag your exact same cars down at the track and his car consistently beats your car...did he "buy a ringer" on purpose?

What I'm saying is that there's no evidence to say without a doubt that there was any impropriety going on when nissan the 7:29...so until someone actually finds that same car or someone inside Nissan decides to speak up, no on knows.
No one has been able to replicate Nissan's factory time. In my opinion, all data currently out there shows that Nissan didn't bring a production car to the ring.

The GTR isn't all that it's made out to be. As time goes by, I think this is becoming more apparent.
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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 11:32 PM
  #358  
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haha..
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Old Feb 28, 2009 | 10:34 AM
  #359  
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experienced porsche driver driving a Clubspec GT2 vs "borrowed friend's" GTR with bridgestones instead of optional dunlops

i wonder why the GT2 was quicker

and if this test was accurate at all, i'm not impressed by the clubspec GT2 being only 7 secs faster than the GTR....especially since the driver probably didn't push his friend's GTR that hard nor did he have much experience behind the wheel of a GTR
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Old Feb 28, 2009 | 11:59 AM
  #360  
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Originally Posted by Maximized
No one has been able to replicate Nissan's factory time. In my opinion, all data currently out there shows that Nissan didn't bring a production car to the ring.

The GTR isn't all that it's made out to be. As time goes by, I think this is becoming more apparent.
Yeah, I know. 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, 11.6 through the 1/4 mile at 119 mph, 60-0 in 98 feet, slalom at 74 mph, .96g on a skidpad..... This things a total pig.

(Numbers from Edmunds' test of their long termer AFTER reprogram with VDC fully activated)
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