Porsche: Sales, Marketing, and Financial News
09-30-2008, 05:20 PM
#162
Trolling Canuckistan
Sabine for TEH RING!!!
09-30-2008, 05:33 PM
#164
Burning Brakes
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Originally posted by black label
[Whoa there relax. I know what you said and this is an article about Porsche and Nissan. All I was doing is providing a little information on the other company in question regarding their launch control system and warranty policy. I'm pretty much in agreement with you.
I just don't understand why they would under build an over engineered vehicle allowing it to be at risk of breaking when using the systems they put into it. Why have launch control there if it's not to be used?
[Whoa there relax. I know what you said and this is an article about Porsche and Nissan. All I was doing is providing a little information on the other company in question regarding their launch control system and warranty policy. I'm pretty much in agreement with you.
I just don't understand why they would under build an over engineered vehicle allowing it to be at risk of breaking when using the systems they put into it. Why have launch control there if it's not to be used?
My fault I thought you were saying that Nissan did not void the warranty for using it. I agree also why have the system in place if your not suppose to use it.Ok cool! Since that's cleared up like I said Nissan is full of sh*t!
09-30-2008, 06:21 PM
#165
I drive a Subata.
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don't really care. fast enough.
09-30-2008, 06:46 PM
#166
99 TL, 06 E350
09-30-2008, 07:24 PM
#167
Suzuka Master
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Ummm.....You do know what Walter Rohrl is the driver cited in the article. While Sabine is a good Ring driver, Rohrl is arguably one of the best in the world.
09-30-2008, 07:32 PM
#168
Senior Moderator
Just to highlight it for you:
The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.
Yes, Rohrl Is the man,.....but he wasn't driving.
Last edited by West6MT; 09-30-2008 at 07:35 PM.
09-30-2008, 07:44 PM
#170
Suzuka Master
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Actually, reading > you
Just to highlight it for you:
The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.
Yes, Rohrl Is the man,.....but he wasn't driving.
Just to highlight it for you:
The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.
Yes, Rohrl Is the man,.....but he wasn't driving.
09-30-2008, 08:46 PM
#171
Punk Rocker
Wow, so Porsche took the GT-R and its own 911 turbo/GT2 around the Nurburgring and found that their cars were faster than the Nissan??? Gasp! How very very shocking!!!
09-30-2008, 09:14 PM
#173
Suzuka Master
Go on Youtube and type; Walter Röhrl, GT3 Nordschleifeand click on the first video. It's worth the watch!
On a side note, I'm one who's anxious to see what Nissan says as well. But with the whole debates that we've been having GTR vs 911s, I don't think many will really change sides.
09-30-2008, 09:51 PM
#174
dɐɹɔ ǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʍ
09-30-2008, 10:03 PM
#176
Suzuka Master
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Add me on that list. But I'd have to get a tour of the Ring first with Sabine in her Taxi. Go on Youtube and type; Walter Röhrl, GT3 Nordschleife
and click on the first video. It's worth the watch!
On a side note, I'm one who's anxious to see what Nissan says as well. But with the whole debates that we've been having GTR vs 911s, I don't think many will really change sides.
Go on Youtube and type; Walter Röhrl, GT3 Nordschleifeand click on the first video. It's worth the watch!
On a side note, I'm one who's anxious to see what Nissan says as well. But with the whole debates that we've been having GTR vs 911s, I don't think many will really change sides.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...14232208337987
09-30-2008, 10:36 PM
#179
Burning Brakes
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I don't know about 30 seconds, but between that and a driver who was more familiar with the car it's possible. I think Nissan's time is suspect, but it is definitely possible so it's hard to say. There have been a number of tests (fifth gear springs to mind, when Senna drove both cars) where the turbo and gt-r have been within a half second over a 3 mile track; so I personally don't think the gt-r is ~10 seconds faster on the 'ring, but ya, who knows. It will be interesting to see how Nissan responds if they do at all.
09-30-2008, 11:05 PM
#181
Senior Moderator
Add me on that list. But I'd have to get a tour of the Ring first with Sabine in her Taxi. Go on Youtube and type; Walter Röhrl, GT3 Nordschleife
and click on the first video. It's worth the watch!
On a side note, I'm one who's anxious to see what Nissan says as well. But with the whole debates that we've been having GTR vs 911s, I don't think many will really change sides.
Go on Youtube and type; Walter Röhrl, GT3 Nordschleifeand click on the first video. It's worth the watch!
On a side note, I'm one who's anxious to see what Nissan says as well. But with the whole debates that we've been having GTR vs 911s, I don't think many will really change sides.
09-30-2008, 11:46 PM
#183
I drive a Subata.
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I mean now Nissan will do whatever to achieve that number, that's for sure.
It's not like Nissan's gonna publicly apologize that they faked the number... That's pretty stupid... from looking at it from the business perspective... eh?
It's not like Nissan's gonna publicly apologize that they faked the number... That's pretty stupid... from looking at it from the business perspective... eh?
10-01-2008, 05:07 AM
#184
Evil Mazda Driver
Honestly I was excited about the GT-R at first but now this whole car just seems like a real 'Big Brother'. Your driving is recorded, your use of a FACTORY FEATURE is recorded, I'm amazed it doesn't record your sperm count...
Fucking stupid. I've lost a lot of respect for this car now.
Fucking stupid. I've lost a lot of respect for this car now.
10-01-2008, 05:35 AM
#185
Living the Dream
This is something that is difficult to accept.
Could Porsche had gotten a "dud"?
What really was the difference in the tires?
Did Nissan lie?
The only way to make this final:
Get Porsche's test driver in a 911 Turbo and/or a GT2, and Nissan's test driver in a GT-R with the summer tires.
Flip a coin to see who goes first.
1 minute after first car leaves, the 2nd car goes.
No radio contact. Result will be known as the second car comes across the finish.
edit:
Cars must be tested and proved to be production models
Could Porsche had gotten a "dud"?
What really was the difference in the tires?
Did Nissan lie?
The only way to make this final:
Get Porsche's test driver in a 911 Turbo and/or a GT2, and Nissan's test driver in a GT-R with the summer tires.
Flip a coin to see who goes first.
1 minute after first car leaves, the 2nd car goes.
No radio contact. Result will be known as the second car comes across the finish.
edit:
Cars must be tested and proved to be production models
10-01-2008, 09:15 AM
#187
teh Senior Instigator
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Do people really not realize many cars have been doing this for some time? Ferrari, Porsche, etc?
the GT-R is no different
Hell, even on my GTO GM can tell me "Hey, you took traction control off at this time, and then overrevved by this much while traveling this fast at this degree of a turn"
WAKE UP PEOPLE
10-01-2008, 09:37 AM
#188
Senior Moderator
I don't know about 30 seconds, but between that and a driver who was more familiar with the car it's possible. I think Nissan's time is suspect, but it is definitely possible so it's hard to say. There have been a number of tests (fifth gear springs to mind, when Senna drove both cars) where the turbo and gt-r have been within a half second over a 3 mile track; so I personally don't think the gt-r is ~10 seconds faster on the 'ring, but ya, who knows. It will be interesting to see how Nissan responds if they do at all.
10-01-2008, 09:49 AM
#189
Trolling Canuckistan
I definitely agree. F1 cars that were running in the rain always switch back to dry tires if the rain stops and the track clears up. They basically have to because they will lose a few seconds per lap running on wet tires in dry conditions. You can't corner as fast and you can't accelerate out of the corner as hard. F1 circuits are around 3 miles long on average, the Nordschleife is 14.173 miles.
You figure a 3-5 mph cornering speed difference on 73 turns (about 100 by most standards but officially 73) it will start to add up. Throw in about 1000 ft of elevation change per lap and tire choice can make a huge difference.
I don't think we are sleeping. I think peoples beef with Nissan at this point is not that the black box is there but how Nissan intends to use it. If I crash my GTR into a school bus going 130mph n a 25mph zone I accept responsibility and the black box will enforce it I think most here are cool with that.
The issue is that Nissan is talking about using it to deny warranty claims, there is even talk of your warranty being void if you use the launch control that they put there.
That's like Pontiac telling you that if you put a CD into the factory CD player of your GTO, that your stereo is no longer covered by warranty.
You figure a 3-5 mph cornering speed difference on 73 turns (about 100 by most standards but officially 73) it will start to add up. Throw in about 1000 ft of elevation change per lap and tire choice can make a huge difference.
Do people really not realize many cars have been doing this for some time? Ferrari, Porsche, etc?
the GT-R is no different
Hell, even on my GTO GM can tell me "Hey, you took traction control off at this time, and then overrevved by this much while traveling this fast at this degree of a turn"
WAKE UP PEOPLE
the GT-R is no different
Hell, even on my GTO GM can tell me "Hey, you took traction control off at this time, and then overrevved by this much while traveling this fast at this degree of a turn"
WAKE UP PEOPLE
The issue is that Nissan is talking about using it to deny warranty claims, there is even talk of your warranty being void if you use the launch control that they put there.
That's like Pontiac telling you that if you put a CD into the factory CD player of your GTO, that your stereo is no longer covered by warranty.
10-01-2008, 10:31 PM
#192
Engineer
if this turns out to be true...
10-02-2008, 09:36 AM
#193
I don't think we are sleeping. I think peoples beef with Nissan at this point is not that the black box is there but how Nissan intends to use it. If I crash my GTR into a school bus going 130mph n a 25mph zone I accept responsibility and the black box will enforce it I think most here are cool with that.
The issue is that Nissan is talking about using it to deny warranty claims, there is even talk of your warranty being void if you use the launch control that they put there.
That's like Pontiac telling you that if you put a CD into the factory CD player of your GTO, that your stereo is no longer covered by warranty.
The issue is that Nissan is talking about using it to deny warranty claims, there is even talk of your warranty being void if you use the launch control that they put there.
That's like Pontiac telling you that if you put a CD into the factory CD player of your GTO, that your stereo is no longer covered by warranty.
If you turn off VDC (traction/stability control) it voids the warranty on your GT-R. WTF! I also heard that using the launch control also voids the warranty but I didn't see it in the driver's manual caps, I must have missed it.
10-03-2008, 08:45 PM
#194
Senior Moderator
Changing gears back to the original topic, I just read the 'Bling Quartet' piece in the November 2008 Road and Track featuring a TechArt GTstreet 911 Turbo vs a Mine's GT-R. Honestly, I could care less about Porsche's claim (or counterclaim).
Although I am referencing tuner versions, the Mine's GT-R gives up 80hp, 86 lb-ft, has an auto tranny AND weighs ~250lbs more than the TechArt 911 Turbo yet the Mine's still manages to outaccelerate and outbrake its tuner 911 counterpart. Be it in stock or tuner form, the GT-R is MONSTER!!!
Nissan simply built a better mousetrap. Period. Now Porsche just needs to put up with an even faster 998 or just shut up. ...and I'm confident, they'll go for the former.
(and they also should be ashamed of themselves for putting 86 octane in the GT-R. )
Although I am referencing tuner versions, the Mine's GT-R gives up 80hp, 86 lb-ft, has an auto tranny AND weighs ~250lbs more than the TechArt 911 Turbo yet the Mine's still manages to outaccelerate and outbrake its tuner 911 counterpart. Be it in stock or tuner form, the GT-R is MONSTER!!!
Nissan simply built a better mousetrap. Period. Now Porsche just needs to put up with an even faster 998 or just shut up. ...and I'm confident, they'll go for the former.
(and they also should be ashamed of themselves for putting 86 octane in the GT-R. )
10-03-2008, 08:52 PM
#195
The Third Ball
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Now...why would this be?
10-1 if you are launching your vehicle then you are racing it, and when you are racing you're typically not covered for ANYTHING...insurance, warranty, etc.
I think their line of thinking stems from that. Now, do i agree with it? Not 100% but I get their reasoning for it.
10-03-2008, 11:05 PM
#196
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/03/n...t-r-ring-time/
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=25331
Nissan defends GT-R 'Ring time
As expected, Nissan has responded to Porsche's claims that the GT-R isn't quite as fast as they say it is. In fact, representatives for the German automaker suggested that Nissan may have used racing slicks to achieve the 7:29:03 lap time of the Nürburgring. Says Nissan, "The final word from us is that it was done on absolutely standard tires which are available to customers in the showroom. They're not trick tires – absolutely standard tires, normal road tires."
Despite the allegations, Nissan is remaining calm about the issue, adding that the fast time was set by its racing driver, Tochio Suzuki, and achieved using the GT-R's optional Dunlop tires. Could it be that Porsche purchased a model with the slightly slower Bridgestones? Maybe, but can having the right tires could account for a 25-second lap time difference? In any case, Nissan's taking the high-road, falling short of suggesting that Porsche's drivers are slow.
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=25331
Nissan defends GT-R 'Ring time
As expected, Nissan has responded to Porsche's claims that the GT-R isn't quite as fast as they say it is. In fact, representatives for the German automaker suggested that Nissan may have used racing slicks to achieve the 7:29:03 lap time of the Nürburgring. Says Nissan, "The final word from us is that it was done on absolutely standard tires which are available to customers in the showroom. They're not trick tires – absolutely standard tires, normal road tires."
Despite the allegations, Nissan is remaining calm about the issue, adding that the fast time was set by its racing driver, Tochio Suzuki, and achieved using the GT-R's optional Dunlop tires. Could it be that Porsche purchased a model with the slightly slower Bridgestones? Maybe, but can having the right tires could account for a 25-second lap time difference? In any case, Nissan's taking the high-road, falling short of suggesting that Porsche's drivers are slow.
10-03-2008, 11:16 PM
#197
I drive a Subata.
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Japanese drivers vs. German drivers
Who's faster?
Who's faster?
10-04-2008, 12:59 AM
#199
Engineer
10-04-2008, 01:34 AM
#200
Senior Moderator
Here are two interesting reads about the GTR's claimed HP numbers
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2008...eally-have/?hp
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2008...eally-have/?hp