Mercedes' Bluetec Ruled Illegal in Five Key States
09-04-2006, 03:59 PM
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Mercedes' Bluetec Ruled Illegal in Five Key States
New Mercedes Diesels Ruled Illegal in Five Key States - - Source: Edmunds.com
STUTTGART, Germany — The soon-to-be-launched and much-hyped Mercedes-Benz E320 Bluetec has reportedly failed to meet emissions criteria in the important states of California, Maine, Massachusetts, New York and Vermont.
Mercedes said its E320 CDI was "the cleanest diesel vehicle in the world," but apparently not clean enough for U.S. regulators.
Despite their popularity in Europe, diesels have never been commonplace in the United States and have a reputation as a technology for big rigs only. But there's a more ecological explanation for the lukewarm reception. Diesel is actually more harmful to the environment than gasoline because it generates more nitrogen oxides (NOx), gases that play a major role in the formation of acid rain and haze.
It is no wonder, then, that many U.S. states impose strict emissions levels for diesel-powered vehicles. European regulators in turn have begun to demand "NOx traps" for diesel vehicles.
Mercedes-Benz tried to tackle the problem by utilizing a catalytic device that converts NOx to nitrogen. Its Bluetec system, introduced in the Vision GL320 concept shown at the North American International Auto Show in January, injects an aqueous urea fluid called AdBlue into the exhaust system. AdBlue is intended to separate NOx into hydrogen and water.
Despite the setback in the United States, Mercedes has already been using Bluetec-equipped commercial vehicles for some time, and it plans to offer Bluetec-equipped cars in Europe by 2008.
What this means to you: Diesel is more frugal, but presents unique emissions problems for engineers. Sooner or later, it's got to work — Mercedes isn't the only one desperate to get modern diesels, so popular in Europe, into the U.S.
Mercedes said its E320 CDI was "the cleanest diesel vehicle in the world," but apparently not clean enough for U.S. regulators.
Despite their popularity in Europe, diesels have never been commonplace in the United States and have a reputation as a technology for big rigs only. But there's a more ecological explanation for the lukewarm reception. Diesel is actually more harmful to the environment than gasoline because it generates more nitrogen oxides (NOx), gases that play a major role in the formation of acid rain and haze.
It is no wonder, then, that many U.S. states impose strict emissions levels for diesel-powered vehicles. European regulators in turn have begun to demand "NOx traps" for diesel vehicles.
Mercedes-Benz tried to tackle the problem by utilizing a catalytic device that converts NOx to nitrogen. Its Bluetec system, introduced in the Vision GL320 concept shown at the North American International Auto Show in January, injects an aqueous urea fluid called AdBlue into the exhaust system. AdBlue is intended to separate NOx into hydrogen and water.
Despite the setback in the United States, Mercedes has already been using Bluetec-equipped commercial vehicles for some time, and it plans to offer Bluetec-equipped cars in Europe by 2008.
What this means to you: Diesel is more frugal, but presents unique emissions problems for engineers. Sooner or later, it's got to work — Mercedes isn't the only one desperate to get modern diesels, so popular in Europe, into the U.S.
09-04-2006, 05:34 PM
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Though I like Diesals, I doubt they will ever pass emissions standards here in California. Even when the technology improves, the emissions standards get stricter.
09-04-2006, 08:04 PM
#4
She said: it's GINORMOUS!
the powers that be don't want diesel to succeed. how often do we have to replace this urea device from MB??
i like honda's plasma method of cleaning out NOx better anyway.
i like honda's plasma method of cleaning out NOx better anyway.
09-04-2006, 08:07 PM
#5
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yea, and the 14mpg SUVs arent contributing more harm than the diesels that would be sold here 
fukin tree huggers
fukin tree huggers
09-04-2006, 10:23 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by ilitig8
I hate to see diesel having so many set backs here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low_sulfur_diesel
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09-05-2006, 10:42 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by joerockt
So how are other older diesels passing but not a brand new model??
The tree huggers miss the big picture - overall the enviroment is much better off with a Bluetec (or any) diesel - even with slightly higher Nox emissions. And the emissions limits that they picked were probably just some number out of thin air - without regard to how any diesel maker could ever achieve that.
ULSD is supposed to be at the pump 10/15 (originally I think it was supposed to be 9/1) and all new diesels are built with that availability in mind. Running a Bluetec or any post MY07 on old diesel will foul the emmission equipment - kinda like running an unleaded engine on leaded gas.
09-05-2006, 10:47 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by Ashburner
Does this go for the new Jeep Grand Cherokee too?
09-05-2006, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
yea, and the 14mpg SUVs arent contributing more harm than the diesels that would be sold here fukin tree huggers
fukin tree huggersExample, Mercedes 6.3 liter engines with world class emissions yet they are huge and take a lot of gas (at least if its in a heavy car, and isn't every Mercedes they will be in at least 4000lb's?). So basically what I am asking is, how is mpg more valuable than emissions?
09-05-2006, 11:45 AM
#13
The sizzle in the Steak
Kalifornia sux
09-05-2006, 11:47 AM
#14
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Originally Posted by Python2121
I dont understand this opinion. It doesn't matter how much gas it takes, we are going to run out anyway. What matters is what comes out of the tail pipe.
Example, Mercedes 6.3 liter engines with world class emissions yet they are huge and take a lot of gas (at least if its in a heavy car, and isn't every Mercedes they will be in at least 4000lb's?). So basically what I am asking is, how is mpg more valuable than emissions?
Example, Mercedes 6.3 liter engines with world class emissions yet they are huge and take a lot of gas (at least if its in a heavy car, and isn't every Mercedes they will be in at least 4000lb's?). So basically what I am asking is, how is mpg more valuable than emissions?
In European trim the Euro Accord (TSX) with the iCTDi diesel (without special US modification for lower emissions) has lower general emissions than the gas engine version.
So the tree huggers would rather have people buy an E350 that may have more general emissions than the E320CDi which may be better overall for the enviroment over a bit higher Nox numbers.
09-05-2006, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by biker
In general emissions are proportional to mpg.
In European trim the Euro Accord (TSX) with the iCTDi diesel (without special US modification for lower emissions) has lower general emissions than the gas engine version.
So the tree huggers would rather have people buy an E350 that may have more general emissions than the E320CDi which may be better overall for the enviroment over a bit higher Nox numbers.
In European trim the Euro Accord (TSX) with the iCTDi diesel (without special US modification for lower emissions) has lower general emissions than the gas engine version.
So the tree huggers would rather have people buy an E350 that may have more general emissions than the E320CDi which may be better overall for the enviroment over a bit higher Nox numbers.
09-05-2006, 05:10 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Python2121
TY for sheding light on that, I didn't realise that they were proportional. In a way, having strict laws before they are introduced is the best time to do it, but I still would love 400lb-ft of torque in a bmw 3 series and well over 30mpg in NY.
09-05-2006, 05:35 PM
#17
Pro
Unless you really understand the chemistry of the emission gases, don't make judgement so fast. Some chemicals are just a lot worse than others, even at lower quantities, for people's health and the enviroment, not just the trees.
09-06-2006, 12:32 PM
#18
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10 years ago Volvo had a commercial in which it stated that in some places in the world its sedan's exhaust coming out of the tailpipe is cleaner than the air going in the engine.
My point is that we are down in emissions levels so low that relative to other things that may affect the enviroment car emissions are no longer the worst offenders. Not allowing Joe Bloe to buy a Bluetec E320CDI in California because of the possible affects on the enviroment when most of the polution is caused by something else is not very helpful overall. It's not as if Joe won't buy a car at all when he can't buy the Bluetec - he'll buy the E350 and pollute just about as much. You could probably get rid of all of the cars in California and you'd still get that nasty looking haze because it's caused by trucks, buses and other industrial and natural causes.
My point is that we are down in emissions levels so low that relative to other things that may affect the enviroment car emissions are no longer the worst offenders. Not allowing Joe Bloe to buy a Bluetec E320CDI in California because of the possible affects on the enviroment when most of the polution is caused by something else is not very helpful overall. It's not as if Joe won't buy a car at all when he can't buy the Bluetec - he'll buy the E350 and pollute just about as much. You could probably get rid of all of the cars in California and you'd still get that nasty looking haze because it's caused by trucks, buses and other industrial and natural causes.
09-06-2006, 05:19 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by Python2121
TY for sheding light on that, I didn't realise that they were proportional. .
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