Hyundai: Sonata News
10-22-2014, 01:14 PM
#1121
Moderator
Even the SE looks nice, aside from the small wheels & cloth seats.
11-04-2014, 01:41 PM
#1123
^ Sales are only marginally down and are up for the year.
Specifically, for the Sonata, it will be the 3rd best sales year even with the depressed sales in Jan. and Feb. due to the switchover and Hyundai is still rolling out the Sonata lineup and has lower incentives than the Accord ($600 lower) and the Camry ($800 lower).
Also, the production figures are wrong if they are just for the Alabama plant since a 32,179 production in Sept. would equate to 386k annual production which is a good bit over capacity running 3 shifts.
And according to TrueCar, Hyundai's incentive spending for the month was around $1,500 compared to around $1,900 for Honda and Toyota.
In addition, Hyundai's ATP is closing in on Nissan (around $1,700 less) even w/ a limited CUV lineup, no SUVs/trucks and no separate lux brand.
Speaking of ATPs, GM has been seeing a nice bump in its ATP which is $36k.
In comparison Toyota is at $30k and Honda at $28k.
Specifically, for the Sonata, it will be the 3rd best sales year even with the depressed sales in Jan. and Feb. due to the switchover and Hyundai is still rolling out the Sonata lineup and has lower incentives than the Accord ($600 lower) and the Camry ($800 lower).
Also, the production figures are wrong if they are just for the Alabama plant since a 32,179 production in Sept. would equate to 386k annual production which is a good bit over capacity running 3 shifts.
And according to TrueCar, Hyundai's incentive spending for the month was around $1,500 compared to around $1,900 for Honda and Toyota.
In addition, Hyundai's ATP is closing in on Nissan (around $1,700 less) even w/ a limited CUV lineup, no SUVs/trucks and no separate lux brand.
Speaking of ATPs, GM has been seeing a nice bump in its ATP which is $36k.
In comparison Toyota is at $30k and Honda at $28k.
Last edited by YEH; 11-04-2014 at 01:55 PM.
11-04-2014, 01:58 PM
#1124
The biggest problem for Hyundai is not having an expanded CUV lineup and not having enough supply of the CUVs that they do have.
Really should have built a 3rd plant in NA, but instead, concentrated expansion in the BRIC countries.
Really should have built a 3rd plant in NA, but instead, concentrated expansion in the BRIC countries.
11-04-2014, 09:34 PM
#1125
^ Sales are only marginally down and are up for the year.
Specifically, for the Sonata, it will be the 3rd best sales year even with the depressed sales in Jan. and Feb. due to the switchover and Hyundai is still rolling out the Sonata lineup and has lower incentives than the Accord ($600 lower) and the Camry ($800 lower).
Also, the production figures are wrong if they are just for the Alabama plant since a 32,179 production in Sept. would equate to 386k annual production which is a good bit over capacity running 3 shifts.
And according to TrueCar, Hyundai's incentive spending for the month was around $1,500 compared to around $1,900 for Honda and Toyota.
In addition, Hyundai's ATP is closing in on Nissan (around $1,700 less) even w/ a limited CUV lineup, no SUVs/trucks and no separate lux brand.
Speaking of ATPs, GM has been seeing a nice bump in its ATP which is $36k.
In comparison Toyota is at $30k and Honda at $28k.
Specifically, for the Sonata, it will be the 3rd best sales year even with the depressed sales in Jan. and Feb. due to the switchover and Hyundai is still rolling out the Sonata lineup and has lower incentives than the Accord ($600 lower) and the Camry ($800 lower).
Also, the production figures are wrong if they are just for the Alabama plant since a 32,179 production in Sept. would equate to 386k annual production which is a good bit over capacity running 3 shifts.
And according to TrueCar, Hyundai's incentive spending for the month was around $1,500 compared to around $1,900 for Honda and Toyota.
In addition, Hyundai's ATP is closing in on Nissan (around $1,700 less) even w/ a limited CUV lineup, no SUVs/trucks and no separate lux brand.
Speaking of ATPs, GM has been seeing a nice bump in its ATP which is $36k.
In comparison Toyota is at $30k and Honda at $28k.
I can buy Sonata turbo Sport $6k cheaper than TLX when both has identical MSRP.
Gensis and Equus is another big failure volume wise.
Hyundai has become big joke. only thing left is sub $15k cars for third world.
Hyundai-Kia group has 3 times vehicle offering compared to Honda and still sell less vehicles than Honda in US.
market cap is now well below Honda.
Hyundai?s Q3 was a very rocky road-INSIDE Korea JoongAng Daily
Hyundai Motor’s total market capitalization was 34.1 trillion won, a 34 percent drop since September
Hyundai Motor’s total market capitalization was 34.1 trillion won, a 34 percent drop since September
11-05-2014, 12:12 PM
#1126
Have to look at both incentives and ATP and the Sonata's ATP is higher for the new model, which was already higher than for the Camry (and the Optima still has one of the highest ATPs in the midsize sedan segment despite being the oldest model).
If the Genesis is a failure volume-wise, than what does that make the RLX (a complete disaster)?
And if the Genesis is a failure - as you say, then so are the Audi A6, Lexus GS and especially, the Infiniti Q70 - which all sell less in NA than the Genesis sedan.
As for the Equus, it does pretty well for a RWD-only sedan that was never meant for export when developed.
And despite a good bit higher pricepoint than the RLX, the Equus, sells about as well as the RLX (only a 100 separating the 2 YTD) and Honda has had decades to build up its flagship line.
Face it - when it comes to higher-end lux sedans, Honda has been a complete flop.
If the Genesis is a failure volume-wise, than what does that make the RLX (a complete disaster)?
And if the Genesis is a failure - as you say, then so are the Audi A6, Lexus GS and especially, the Infiniti Q70 - which all sell less in NA than the Genesis sedan.
As for the Equus, it does pretty well for a RWD-only sedan that was never meant for export when developed.
And despite a good bit higher pricepoint than the RLX, the Equus, sells about as well as the RLX (only a 100 separating the 2 YTD) and Honda has had decades to build up its flagship line.
Face it - when it comes to higher-end lux sedans, Honda has been a complete flop.
Last edited by YEH; 11-05-2014 at 12:20 PM.
11-05-2014, 01:47 PM
#1127
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
YEH,
It's SSFTSX.
MEH.
It's SSFTSX.
MEH.
11-05-2014, 11:27 PM
#1128
Have to look at both incentives and ATP and the Sonata's ATP is higher for the new model, which was already higher than for the Camry (and the Optima still has one of the highest ATPs in the midsize sedan segment despite being the oldest model).
If the Genesis is a failure volume-wise, than what does that make the RLX (a complete disaster)?
And if the Genesis is a failure - as you say, then so are the Audi A6, Lexus GS and especially, the Infiniti Q70 - which all sell less in NA than the Genesis sedan.
As for the Equus, it does pretty well for a RWD-only sedan that was never meant for export when developed.
And despite a good bit higher pricepoint than the RLX, the Equus, sells about as well as the RLX (only a 100 separating the 2 YTD) and Honda has had decades to build up its flagship line.
Face it - when it comes to higher-end lux sedans, Honda has been a complete flop.
If the Genesis is a failure volume-wise, than what does that make the RLX (a complete disaster)?
And if the Genesis is a failure - as you say, then so are the Audi A6, Lexus GS and especially, the Infiniti Q70 - which all sell less in NA than the Genesis sedan.
As for the Equus, it does pretty well for a RWD-only sedan that was never meant for export when developed.
And despite a good bit higher pricepoint than the RLX, the Equus, sells about as well as the RLX (only a 100 separating the 2 YTD) and Honda has had decades to build up its flagship line.
Face it - when it comes to higher-end lux sedans, Honda has been a complete flop.
Genesis/Equus are money loser for Hyundai due to low volume.
V8 vehicles are not money loser for Toyota/Nissan due there Global SUV/Truck dominance.
Only thing Hyundai is good at is selling garbage at places like India. this things are reflected in market value and brand value.
where are your so called claims that Sonata sales are limited due production constraints?. Now you changed the subject to ATP and CUV limitions. where you don't have slightes clue.
11-06-2014, 11:05 AM
#1129
Senior Moderator
You need to calm down and think. RLX does not have separate V8 engine and transmission. RLX technology is shared with MDX/TLX.
Genesis/Equus are money loser for Hyundai due to low volume.
V8 vehicles are not money loser for Toyota/Nissan due there Global SUV/Truck dominance.
Only thing Hyundai is good at is selling garbage at places like India. this things are reflected in market value and brand value.
where are your so called claims that Sonata sales are limited due production constraints?. Now you changed the subject to ATP and CUV limitions. where you don't have slightes clue.
Genesis/Equus are money loser for Hyundai due to low volume.
V8 vehicles are not money loser for Toyota/Nissan due there Global SUV/Truck dominance.
Only thing Hyundai is good at is selling garbage at places like India. this things are reflected in market value and brand value.
where are your so called claims that Sonata sales are limited due production constraints?. Now you changed the subject to ATP and CUV limitions. where you don't have slightes clue.
11-06-2014, 02:35 PM
#1130
^ Not only that, the Equus and Genesis basically share platforms and powertrains and they sell well in Korea and in other markets such as the Middle East (Genesis outsells the 5 Series); and also shares platforms/powertrains with the K9/K900 and the upcoming Kia GT/K8/K800.
Hyundai had to boost Genesis production by 22k units in order to meet demand (yearly total of 110k) - when was the last time Acura had to do that for the RLX?
But oh yeah, extremely low sales offers exclusivity.
Hyundai had to boost Genesis production by 22k units in order to meet demand (yearly total of 110k) - when was the last time Acura had to do that for the RLX?
But oh yeah, extremely low sales offers exclusivity.
11-06-2014, 11:37 PM
#1131
^ Not only that, the Equus and Genesis basically share platforms and powertrains and they sell well in Korea and in other markets such as the Middle East (Genesis outsells the 5 Series); and also shares platforms/powertrains with the K9/K900 and the upcoming Kia GT/K8/K800.
Hyundai had to boost Genesis production by 22k units in order to meet demand (yearly total of 110k) - when was the last time Acura had to do that for the RLX?
But oh yeah, extremely low sales offers exclusivity.
Hyundai had to boost Genesis production by 22k units in order to meet demand (yearly total of 110k) - when was the last time Acura had to do that for the RLX?
But oh yeah, extremely low sales offers exclusivity.
RLX is exclusive Japan product like TSX -V6. not for profits as engine/transmission shared.
First drive: 2015 Hyundai Genesis in the UAE | Drive Arabia : Dubai / Abu Dhabi [UAE, Saudi, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Oman & GCC]
The first-generation Genesis sedan was supposed to be Hyundai’s game-changer. A valiant effort at building a contemporary luxury sedan with a sporting streak, it was a hit everywhere else except the Middle East.
The first-generation Genesis sedan was supposed to be Hyundai’s game-changer. A valiant effort at building a contemporary luxury sedan with a sporting streak, it was a hit everywhere else except the Middle East.
11-07-2014, 11:08 AM
#1132
Acura wasted time on dead on arrival cars like ILX/RLX/ZDX (market is simply non existent for such cars). what is that nonsesne ILX hybrid. losing 10K value in months at used car lot.
4G TL is biggest failure considering car that was maintream in sales is now at the bottom despite extensive MMC and deep discounts.
4G TL is biggest failure considering car that was maintream in sales is now at the bottom despite extensive MMC and deep discounts.
11-07-2014, 01:50 PM
#1133
Unlike the resident fool, I don't make claims that I can't substantiate.
The Genesis has a significantly higher V8 take-rake than the rest of the midsize, RWD lux segment.
http://wot.motortrend.com/2013-hyund...on-247411.html
Even with a reduction for the 2G model due to the higher power output of the 3.8 GDI and the lack of AWD for the 5.0 - probably around the 15-20% range which is still higher than the norm.
So are you acknowledging that the Genesis was a hit everywhere else?
The Genesis has a significantly higher V8 take-rake than the rest of the midsize, RWD lux segment.
Take rates may also play a large part, as Trainor says it's been 70/30 percent for V-6/V-8 engine...
Even with a reduction for the 2G model due to the higher power output of the 3.8 GDI and the lack of AWD for the 5.0 - probably around the 15-20% range which is still higher than the norm.
First drive: 2015 Hyundai Genesis in the UAE | Drive Arabia : Dubai / Abu Dhabi [UAE, Saudi, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Oman & GCC]
The first-generation Genesis sedan was supposed to be Hyundai’s game-changer. A valiant effort at building a contemporary luxury sedan with a sporting streak, it was a hit everywhere else except the Middle East.
The first-generation Genesis sedan was supposed to be Hyundai’s game-changer. A valiant effort at building a contemporary luxury sedan with a sporting streak, it was a hit everywhere else except the Middle East.
Last edited by YEH; 11-07-2014 at 02:03 PM.
11-07-2014, 02:06 PM
#1134
And in terms or a hit in the Middle East - it all depends on what sales nos. they consider to be a hit.
The Genesis outsold others in its segment in the ME, so those others must not be hits as well.
The Genesis outsold others in its segment in the ME, so those others must not be hits as well.
11-07-2014, 02:09 PM
#1135
Team Owner
The fact that we are actually comparing Genesis and RL (X) already showed that Hyundai has improved and Acura has been standing still.
11-08-2014, 06:52 PM
#1136
Senior Moderator
11-09-2014, 02:28 AM
#1137
Unlike the resident fool, I don't make claims that I can't substantiate.
The Genesis has a significantly higher V8 take-rake than the rest of the midsize, RWD lux segment.
2013 Hyundai Genesis Loses 4.6-Liter V-8, Gets Updated Navigation
Even with a reduction for the 2G model due to the higher power output of the 3.8 GDI and the lack of AWD for the 5.0 - probably around the 15-20% range which is still higher than the norm.
So are you acknowledging that the Genesis was a hit everywhere else?
The Genesis has a significantly higher V8 take-rake than the rest of the midsize, RWD lux segment.
2013 Hyundai Genesis Loses 4.6-Liter V-8, Gets Updated Navigation
Even with a reduction for the 2G model due to the higher power output of the 3.8 GDI and the lack of AWD for the 5.0 - probably around the 15-20% range which is still higher than the norm.
So are you acknowledging that the Genesis was a hit everywhere else?
20% take rate of V8 is again your claim
Genesis 3.8 AWD is slower than TLX. and $8k more expensive.
2015 Hyundai Genesis 3.8 AWD First Test - Motor Trend
transaction prices will be far lower. another of your worthless claim of Hyundi have lower incentives.
Hyundai Incentives
Conquest Lease Coupon
Receive an additional $1,500 off a new 2015 Hyundai Genesis lease if you are the current registered owner of a qualifying conquest vehicle.
Qualifying conquest vehicles: 2004 - 2015 model year Acura, Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, Infiniti or Mercedes Benz.
Conquest Lease Coupon
Receive an additional $1,500 off a new 2015 Hyundai Genesis lease if you are the current registered owner of a qualifying conquest vehicle.
Qualifying conquest vehicles: 2004 - 2015 model year Acura, Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, Infiniti or Mercedes Benz.
11-12-2014, 03:54 PM
#1138
^ No wonder your posts are so "out there."
I had quoted the relevant part which clearly indicates 30% take rate for the V8.
I'll do it again.
No wonder people mock you so much.
And really, comparing the RWD Genesis to the TLX? lol
One is compared to the likes of the 5 Series, CTS, GS, etc. and the other is not.
And as for the $8k price premium - certainly says something about Hyundai's lux offering vs. Honda's when they command a price premium.
As I always stated - RWD + V8 trumps lux brand (FWD and no V8).
I had quoted the relevant part which clearly indicates 30% take rate for the V8.
I'll do it again.
Take rates may also play a large part, as Trainor says it's been 70/30 percent for V-6/V-8 engine...
And really, comparing the RWD Genesis to the TLX? lol
One is compared to the likes of the 5 Series, CTS, GS, etc. and the other is not.
And as for the $8k price premium - certainly says something about Hyundai's lux offering vs. Honda's when they command a price premium.
As I always stated - RWD + V8 trumps lux brand (FWD and no V8).
Last edited by YEH; 11-12-2014 at 03:57 PM.
12-06-2014, 03:24 PM
#1139
From stagnation to decline.
only 2 mpg difference between Sonata ECO and TLX SH-AWD.
2015 Hyundai Sonata Eco review notes | Autoweek
2015 Acura TLX SH-AWD Advance review notes | Autoweek
Hyundai Motor November US Sales Fall 4%
Hyundai Motor America (HYMTF.PK, HYMLF.PK) said Tuesday its November sales slid 4 percent from a year ago to 53,672 units.
Hyundai Motor America (HYMTF.PK, HYMLF.PK) said Tuesday its November sales slid 4 percent from a year ago to 53,672 units.
only 2 mpg difference between Sonata ECO and TLX SH-AWD.
2015 Hyundai Sonata Eco review notes | Autoweek
2015 Acura TLX SH-AWD Advance review notes | Autoweek
08-09-2015, 11:43 PM
#1141
2016 Sonata hybrid failed again. full 1 second slower than Accord hybrid.
over 30% discount with over 30% sales plunge. they want to built more factories.
2016 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
Observed fuel economy also notched up to 34 mpg under our leadfooted ministrations, besting our test results of the Ford Fusion hybrid (32 mpg) and Toyota Camry hybrid (31 mpg) but not the Honda Accord hybrid (41 mpg).
Observed fuel economy also notched up to 34 mpg under our leadfooted ministrations, besting our test results of the Ford Fusion hybrid (32 mpg) and Toyota Camry hybrid (31 mpg) but not the Honda Accord hybrid (41 mpg).
Hyundai, Kia whip out discounts in China amid slump | GlobalPost
SEOUL, Aug. 10 (Yonhap) -- South Korea's top carmaker, Hyundai Motor Co., and its smaller affiliate, Kia Motors Corp., are giving out price cuts of over 30 percent in China, industry sources said Monday, as they struggle with fierce competition in the world's No. 1 car market.
SEOUL, Aug. 10 (Yonhap) -- South Korea's top carmaker, Hyundai Motor Co., and its smaller affiliate, Kia Motors Corp., are giving out price cuts of over 30 percent in China, industry sources said Monday, as they struggle with fierce competition in the world's No. 1 car market.
08-10-2015, 03:43 AM
#1142
^ Audi/VW and other automakers are propping up their dealers in China due to the downturn and JLR's net income fell nearly 50% due to China.
And overall the new Sonata hybrid has gotten positive reviews with the PHEV Sonata getting even better ones (hmmm - wasn't there an Accord plug-in?).
And sales thus far - not even close (13,665 YTD vs. 7,888).
Funny how you don't talk about European sales.
And overall the new Sonata hybrid has gotten positive reviews with the PHEV Sonata getting even better ones (hmmm - wasn't there an Accord plug-in?).
And sales thus far - not even close (13,665 YTD vs. 7,888).
Funny how you don't talk about European sales.
Last edited by YEH; 08-10-2015 at 03:45 AM.
08-10-2015, 09:47 AM
#1143
Team Owner
ACURA IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD OK STOP SAYING THEY'RE NOT BECAUSE I LOVE THEM AND EVERYTHING ABOUT THEM KTHXBYE :ssftsx:
08-10-2015, 11:03 PM
#1144
And overall the new Sonata hybrid has gotten positive reviews with the PHEV Sonata getting even better ones (hmmm - wasn't there an Accord plug-in?).
Hyundai's sub-Genesis sports car future fading? | LeftLaneNews
Hyundai's sub-Genesis sports car future fading?
Hyundai's sub-Genesis sports car future fading?
And sales thus far - not even close (13,665 YTD vs. 7,888).
Funny how you don't talk about European sales.
Funny how you don't talk about European sales.
There is some improvement at bottom of market in EU but overall market share has declined. it only i10 or sportage that has some increase but at very low end.
Hyundai, Kia's Europe market share hits yearly low in June
Hyundai, Kia's Europe market share hits yearly low in June
According to the data released by the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association, Hyundai Motor sold 42,231 cars in Europe last month, up 7.4 percent from a year earlier. Kia Motors' sales in Europe also expanded 8.2 percent on-year to 36,302 units.
Their sales growth, however, was slower than the total demand increase of 14.8 percent in Europe.
As a result, the market share held by the two Korean auto giants reached 5.6 percent in June, down 0.6 percentage point from a month earlier.
Hyundai, Kia's Europe market share hits yearly low in June
According to the data released by the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association, Hyundai Motor sold 42,231 cars in Europe last month, up 7.4 percent from a year earlier. Kia Motors' sales in Europe also expanded 8.2 percent on-year to 36,302 units.
Their sales growth, however, was slower than the total demand increase of 14.8 percent in Europe.
As a result, the market share held by the two Korean auto giants reached 5.6 percent in June, down 0.6 percentage point from a month earlier.
08-11-2015, 09:16 PM
#1145
The point is they sell higher price vehicles and they are not building factories in china now. Hyundai is doing the opposite. Hyundai loss of direction around the world is now impacting north American operations.
Of the BRIC markets - only India is doing relatively well which, not surprisingly, correlates with Hyundai India doing well.
H/K should have built another NA plant yrs ago (to build crossovers), but at least Kia will be in decent shape when their Mexico plant is completed within a yr.
And speaking of Mexico, both H/K recently entered the Mexican market and both are seeing big sales gains.
Positive to compare to what? it is simply too slow and inefficient compared to 2013 Accord hybrid or Plug In.
And I'll bet Hyundai sells its new Sonata Plug-in longer than what Honda did for the Accord.
If this continue like that Hyundai-Kia future will not be any differrent than Suzuki/Mitsubishi.
There was never any real thought of doing a sub-Genesis RWD coupe and if there is to be one, Kia would be the one to do it.
Hyundai, meanwhile, will be moving its RWD coupe significantly upmarket - not entry-level like the RC or Q60 but a bona-fide mid-segment 2-door (with V8 power) to complement the Genesis sedan.
And Kia will launch the production version of the GT concept in 2017.
What will Acura have?
Oh, that's right - by then, a refresh of the TLX (tho, I have to say, the sub-NSX looks very promising - based on the rendering, better than the NSX).
There is some improvement at bottom of market in EU but overall market share has declined. it only i10 or sportage that has some increase but at very low end.
Kia's best sellers in Europe are the Sportage and the cee'd/pro_cee'd - neither being low-end.
And Kia has already passed its 2015 sales goal for the new Sorento (did it in 3 months) in the UK.
With the 40% of sales being for the top spec which goes for around $65k in US dollars.
So market share is down for June - but overall, a healthy 8%+ growth for the year (actually for the 1st half of the year, H/K's growth in Europe is pretty much right on track with growth for the sector - around 8.4%).
That will change with the new Tucson, Sportage and other models like the upcoming Kia dedicated hybrid CUV.
Meanwhile, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda and Subaru have all managed to grow sales for the 1st half; heck, even Suzuki and Mitsu have been able to do it.
Honda, otoh - down 9.1% for the 1st half.
In growing markets like Europe and Australia, Honda is struggling (at least H/K at the moment are struggling in declining markets).
Honda is too overly dependent on the US/Canadian markets.
The next time the US economy hits a major downturn and the BRIC nations are thriving, who do you think will be hurting the most?
And even with the booming US auto market and the weak Yen, Honda's profits/margins are not as good as for Toyota or Nissan.
Last edited by YEH; 08-11-2015 at 09:21 PM.
08-11-2015, 10:24 PM
#1146
Honda is too overly dependent on the US/Canadian markets.
The next time the US economy hits a major downturn and the BRIC nations are thriving, who do you think will be hurting the most?
The next time the US economy hits a major downturn and the BRIC nations are thriving, who do you think will be hurting the most?
There is no SH-AWD across the platforms technology in Toyota/Nissan.
Honda hybrids are the most advanced. look at Honda hybrid Vezel around the globe or RLX hybrid or Accord Hybrid.
Honda has the most advanced diesel engine/transmission combo. 9speed diesel auto in EU CRV.
Diesel Honda Civic Records 83.52 mpg Through 24 European Countries - HybridCars.com
Chinese have finally discovered the Honda quality. they are dumping Hyundai-Kia.
Honda, Toyota Boost China Sales Amid Industry Slowdown - Bloomberg Business
The popularity of crossover models helped Honda boost sales in China by 50.4 percent to 73,099 units, while Toyota reported a 24 percent gain in July deliveries
The popularity of crossover models helped Honda boost sales in China by 50.4 percent to 73,099 units, while Toyota reported a 24 percent gain in July deliveries
new Honda HRV and Jazz sales are now beginning in Europe. Honda CTR is sold out for next 3 years.
08-12-2015, 02:28 AM
#1147
Team Owner
Honda margins are lower than Toyota/Nissan because its engines and platforms are the most advanced with house components. Toyota source from Yamaha. Nissan from Renalut/MB etc
There is no SH-AWD across the platforms technology in Toyota/Nissan.
Honda hybrids are the most advanced. look at Honda hybrid Vezel around the globe or RLX hybrid or Accord Hybrid.
Honda has the most advanced diesel engine/transmission combo. 9speed diesel auto in EU CRV.
Diesel Honda Civic Records 83.52 mpg Through 24 European Countries - HybridCars.com
Chinese have finally discovered the Honda quality. they are dumping Hyundai-Kia.
Honda profits and revenues are going to out perform H-K in current quarter.
new Honda HRV and Jazz sales are now beginning in Europe. Honda CTR is sold out for next 3 years.
There is no SH-AWD across the platforms technology in Toyota/Nissan.
Honda hybrids are the most advanced. look at Honda hybrid Vezel around the globe or RLX hybrid or Accord Hybrid.
Honda has the most advanced diesel engine/transmission combo. 9speed diesel auto in EU CRV.
Diesel Honda Civic Records 83.52 mpg Through 24 European Countries - HybridCars.com
Chinese have finally discovered the Honda quality. they are dumping Hyundai-Kia.
Honda profits and revenues are going to out perform H-K in current quarter.
new Honda HRV and Jazz sales are now beginning in Europe. Honda CTR is sold out for next 3 years.
08-12-2015, 09:03 AM
#1148
08-12-2015, 02:28 PM
#1150
08-12-2015, 04:47 PM
#1151
i disagree with your comment regarding is350's handling. I have ALL SEASON tires on mine and it handles beautifully. probably better than anything Acura has on current lineup with same kind of tires. Gas mileage isn't great during city driving but on the highway it's pretty decent.
08-12-2015, 04:53 PM
#1152
Team Owner
Since when is Volvo the benchmark of great handling?
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00TL-P3.2 (08-12-2015)
08-13-2015, 11:01 AM
#1153
no it's not narrow like TLX but that's not Lexus' fault. it's Acura's fault for offering the cars with such narrow tires. and purely from how it handles with all season tires compared to Acura's current offering, my comment stands and i still disagree with you since your original comment was that is350's handling sucks when you take off the summer performance tires.
08-13-2015, 11:04 AM
#1154
Team Owner
I hate to say it, but EVERY cars handling sucks if you take off the performance tires...
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RPhilMan1 (08-14-2015)
08-14-2015, 02:35 AM
#1157
no it's not narrow like TLX but that's not Lexus' fault. it's Acura's fault for offering the cars with such narrow tires. and purely from how it handles with all season tires compared to Acura's current offering, my comment stands and i still disagree with you since your original comment was that is350's handling sucks when you take off the summer performance tires.
IS350F sport with 255 size rear tire can only pull 0.85g.
Habemus Papem! 2013 BMW 335i M Sport vs. 2013 Cadillac ATS 3.6, 2014 Lexus IS350 F Sport Comparison Tests - Page 5 - Car and Driver
IS250F AWD 0.81g.
2014 Lexus IS250 F Sport AWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
Honda Accord can pull 0.86g on 215 size.
2014 Mazda 6 Grand Touring vs. 2013 Honda Accord EX-L Sedan: Final Scoring, Performance Data, and Complete Specs
Honda Accord Sport 0.87g.
2013 Honda Accord Sport Sedan Long-Term Test Wrap-Up ? Review ? Car and Driver
Civic Si with 18inch All season. 0.87G.
2014 Honda Civic Si Sedan Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
The Civic Si rides on wheels one inch larger than those of last year’s car, at 18 inches, as well as tires 10 millimeters wider. We measured lateral grip at 0.87 g around the skidpad and found that the car performed at an even higher level on dampened twisty roads, where the Continental all-season rubber gripped so doggedly that we didn’t even miss the optional summer tires.
The Civic Si rides on wheels one inch larger than those of last year’s car, at 18 inches, as well as tires 10 millimeters wider. We measured lateral grip at 0.87 g around the skidpad and found that the car performed at an even higher level on dampened twisty roads, where the Continental all-season rubber gripped so doggedly that we didn’t even miss the optional summer tires.
Cars like RLX-eSH-AWD and TLX-SH-AWD will simply demolish any lexus on any circuit if the the heavier nosie reducing and long life all season tires are replacey with lower x-section and light weight.
08-14-2015, 10:21 AM
#1158
Team Owner
SSFTSX, you keep forgetting that these are civilian, daily use vehicles and not all out sports cars. Lexus is more concerned about having a luxurious and comfortable ride (as that's what their consumers demand), as opposed to gaining that extra 0.01-0.02g in the corner. Of which I'm willing to bet that 99.8% of owners will never experience.
I sincerely hope you do not believe that Lexus cannot push more out of their cars. They're in a different segment than Honda and Acura altogether.
Specifications on paper are useless if they never get utilized. Your argument is invalid yet again.
I sincerely hope you do not believe that Lexus cannot push more out of their cars. They're in a different segment than Honda and Acura altogether.
Specifications on paper are useless if they never get utilized. Your argument is invalid yet again.
08-14-2015, 07:57 PM
#1159
It seems you don't know anything about handling in cars.
IS350F sport with 255 size rear tire can only pull 0.85g.
Habemus Papem! 2013 BMW 335i M Sport vs. 2013 Cadillac ATS 3.6, 2014 Lexus IS350 F Sport Comparison Tests - Page 5 - Car and Driver
IS250F AWD 0.81g.
2014 Lexus IS250 F Sport AWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
Honda Accord can pull 0.86g on 215 size.
2014 Mazda 6 Grand Touring vs. 2013 Honda Accord EX-L Sedan: Final Scoring, Performance Data, and Complete Specs
Honda Accord Sport 0.87g.
2013 Honda Accord Sport Sedan Long-Term Test Wrap-Up ? Review ? Car and Driver
Civic Si with 18inch All season. 0.87G.
Cars like RLX-eSH-AWD and TLX-SH-AWD will simply demolish any lexus on any circuit if the the heavier nosie reducing and long life all season tires are replacey with lower x-section and light weight.
IS350F sport with 255 size rear tire can only pull 0.85g.
Habemus Papem! 2013 BMW 335i M Sport vs. 2013 Cadillac ATS 3.6, 2014 Lexus IS350 F Sport Comparison Tests - Page 5 - Car and Driver
IS250F AWD 0.81g.
2014 Lexus IS250 F Sport AWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
Honda Accord can pull 0.86g on 215 size.
2014 Mazda 6 Grand Touring vs. 2013 Honda Accord EX-L Sedan: Final Scoring, Performance Data, and Complete Specs
Honda Accord Sport 0.87g.
2013 Honda Accord Sport Sedan Long-Term Test Wrap-Up ? Review ? Car and Driver
Civic Si with 18inch All season. 0.87G.
Cars like RLX-eSH-AWD and TLX-SH-AWD will simply demolish any lexus on any circuit if the the heavier nosie reducing and long life all season tires are replacey with lower x-section and light weight.
OK i'll entertain you for a little bit.
so your logic is that higher g you get from 200 ft diameter skid pad test will yield better track record? sure.. probably if the circuit was just a 200ft diameter circle.
Let try this.. real life course have straights/corners/s-turns right? which i don't think you'll disagree with.. and in that case wouldn't you think that 610ft slalom test would give you a closer result in a real life circuit aside from braking and acceleration since you have to shift the car's weight? well is350 did that at 46.6mph and accord did that in 39.7mph according to the articles you posted..
it doesn't matter how many gs a car can pull on a skid pad. if the car's not balanced and can't move its weight back to different direction quickly in a controlled manner, car's handling will suck. weight, aero, engine, drive train, suspension, rigidity, balance, and your favorite, tires all come into equation for handling not just skid pad result.
and your argument has too many "IF"s. yeah IF stock is350 had lighter wheels and lighter stickier tires, it'll still demolish stock RLX or stock TLS in any form.. so your "IF" argument is useless. another flaw to your statement is that these 2 can't beat "any lexus".. you seriously think that RLX and TLX can go up against GS F, IS F or RC F?
honestly you should just go out to dealerships and drive other cars/test out in real life instead of fixating yourself at these numbers from car magazines. you'll see what "good handling" cars are outside of honda/acura..
08-15-2015, 01:01 AM
#1160
OK i'll entertain you for a little bit.
so your logic is that higher g you get from 200 ft diameter skid pad test will yield better track record? sure.. probably if the circuit was just a 200ft diameter circle.
Let try this.. real life course have straights/corners/s-turns right? which i don't think you'll disagree with.. and in that case wouldn't you think that 610ft slalom test would give you a closer result in a real life circuit aside from braking and acceleration since you have to shift the car's weight? well is350 did that at 46.6mph and accord did that in 39.7mph according to the articles you posted..
so your logic is that higher g you get from 200 ft diameter skid pad test will yield better track record? sure.. probably if the circuit was just a 200ft diameter circle.
Let try this.. real life course have straights/corners/s-turns right? which i don't think you'll disagree with.. and in that case wouldn't you think that 610ft slalom test would give you a closer result in a real life circuit aside from braking and acceleration since you have to shift the car's weight? well is350 did that at 46.6mph and accord did that in 39.7mph according to the articles you posted..
2013 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium vs. 2014 Honda Accord Plug-In Hybrid: Final Scoring, Performance Data, and Complete Specs
Without energy saver. Accord 225/50 produce 43.1mph of slalom run.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ssat-25-se.pdf
Look at Civic Si.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ssis-chart.pdf
As i said put those 225/50 energy saver tires on IS350F and see how much slalom it can produce. Technologies like PAWS, SHAWD, eShAWD, are well beyond Lexus technical ability. thats it always produce cars that so low to the ground like current IS. its like sitting on old small toilet seat.