ttribe

This might be the most nonsensical post I've ever seen on the Internet...and that's saying something.

Sarlacc

I swear SSFTSX is some 40 year old virgin with a highly advanced form of Aspergers. Functional enough to use a keyboard...but not actually operate with in society.

AZuser

I'm wrong?

So Acura hasn't had the past 17 years to market and sell the RL (now RLX) in the U.S. vs Hyundai only having had 3 years to market and sell the Equus in the U.S.?

I'm wrong that Acura has had an extra 14 years to market and sell the RL vs the Equus and yet Acura, with a completely new and redesigned car on their hands, only manged to sell 250 more RLX's vs Hyundai's 3-year-old Equus over the past 5 months?


What the hell does that have to do with RLX sales vs Equus sales? Stay on topic.


And Acura can't initiate a premium brand despite being in the U.S. market for the past 27 years. Hyundai has only been in the premium segment for 5 years (since late 2008) and look at how far they've come.

Costco

SSFTSX = most successful troll in the history of AZ.

SSFTSX

As i said Acura priorities went into SUV. There is not much investment in sedans. TSX is still selling with 5speed Auto and no push button start.
Acura extra 14 years isnt invested in sedans. otherwise all cars will have DI engine, 6speed Auto, push button start, SH-AWD, hybrids like Lexus etc.




Acura is very successful brand. it constantly gets 12 to 14k sales a month despite lack of content in its vehicles.
Hyundia premium can barely sell 1500 vehicles a month. (exclude that Al cheapo Genesis coupe). and Hyundi vehicles are discounted alot and need constant upgrades.

AZuser

If Acura's updating and coming out with new redesigned sedans every generation, they're investing in sedans. Putting money into R&D and marketing, no matter how much = investing.


Not a fair comparison at all.

1) Acura brand consists of 7 models: ILX, TSX, TL, RLX, RDX, MDX, and ZDX

Hyundai only has 2 premium models: Genesis sedan and Equus.

2) Acura has a 22 year advantage over Hyundai in the premium segment. One would expect Acura to have not only more models to sell but also higher sales volume than Hyundai.

A more fair comparison would be to compare Genesis sedan sales with TL sales and RL(X) sales with Equus sales. When you do that, one can see that Acura isn't doing so well, especially with a 22 year advantage over Hyundai in developing their brand and image.

charliemike

Why do we continue to let SSFTSX screw up every thread in this forum?

I'm trying to keep up on Auto News and all I get here is his ridiculous BS over and over and over again. It's so @#$@# frustrating.

ttribe

+1

Sarlacc

phile

I've resorted to putting even the people who respond to him on ignore. Unfortunately can't ignore the mods.

SSFTSX

Acura is not updating its sedans as first priority. see 6AT coming in MDX first than TL. It is not like 8speed Hyundais.


You have to look at technologies not models. ILX is based on Civic, TSX is shortened Accord platform. RDX is CRV platform. All share engines and transmission.
Genesis and Equus are uniquely developed engines, transmission and platforms.
That 22 year advantage translate into higher sales and much lower depreciations. which is more profitable business.

As i said Hyundai can concentrate on two sedans but Acura has to concentrate on SUVs first than Sedans.

ttribe

This thread has become almost unreadable.

yohan81718

For a second, I thought I was in some Acura beak thread..

YEH

The Equus usually does anywhere from 250 to 350 a month in sales (higher during the summer and lower during the winter as the lack of AWD really hurts it in the NE and MW); the past couple of months has seen a slow down due to it being the lull period as the refreshed Equus makes its way to dealer lots.

Even with the improvements with the MCE (much needed at the dash), can't see the sales volume really changing much until the next generation model which will get AWD and hopefully more striking sheetmetal.

Not that any of the flagship sedans are particularly striking or for that matter, the midsize luxury sedans, but new entrants into the market or those which don't have the cachet of others really need striking sheetmetal to move the needle.

While the Genesis sedan is still basically a conservative design, it nonetheless has a better/more pleasing overall shape than the Equus - which is why the Genesis is the much better seller (granted, the Genesis being the better bargain within its segment also plays a significant role in that) even despite being in its 6th year of sale in the US.

Along the same lines, it took the launch of the sleek A7 for Audi to really start to gain traction/sales at the higher end of the luxury market.

With the next gen getting AWD, as long as Hyundai gives the 3G Equus more striking (but still pleasing sheetmetal), I think they can attain around 500 in sales as more and more buyers get used to the idea of a non-luxury branded flagship sedan and more Genesis sedan owners are ready to move up.

oonowindoo

It was a pretty interesting read until on all reason tires. then I stopped. Your excuse is getting boring.

Go sit in one and compare.

When i sat in the Equus, especially in the back seat, it feels like i was sitting in a S class, maybe better. It feels.... more "Executive" like if you know what i mean.

When i sat in the RLX, it is decent but it feels like an Acura... if someone tells me i was sitting in a TL. I would have believed him.


That is the biggest difference. If someone can get over the fact that they are spending 60k on a Hyundai. Equus is pretty much the best "luxury"car on the market at $60k. Not sport sedan but LUXURY.

SSFTSX

$60k is not big money that you can afford rear seat ride. it is mostly for kids. RLX will be more durable.

oonowindoo

They are not Minivan.
Here is to show you why RLX is literally 1 class lower than Equus in term of luxury.

Equus rear seat : TV/ mini fridge, heated and cool seat, massage, recline able and the pictures are 1st gen Equus, not the latest one.






RLX: AC Vents, Cup holders BRAND SPANKING NEW

SSFTSX

As i said Equus is point less car as those who can afford rear seat rides can also afford Audi S8 and S65 AMG. and entertainments does not make it higher class but body motion controls with refinment in higher speeds/ curves make it higher class.
Equus is not quieter either.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ndai-equus.pdf

Hapa DC5

Kill it with fire.

Costco

If I didn't know any better I'd have thought that RLX backseat was really an Accord

oh wait, nobody ever confuses Acuras for their lesser Honda counterparts

charliemike

It might as well be. The TLX and RLX strike me as nothing more than expensive Accords.

The new Equus comes with rear TVs now too.

oonowindoo

According to you?

Last time I checked RLX is made by Acura, not Lexus. We are talking about Equus and RLX.
You know what else is better than Equus? Phantom.

fsttyms1

Fixed.

YEH

Don't know why there is so much discussion of the RLX in an Equus thread (granted, initiated by one person) considering that Honda/Acura doesn't consider the RLX to compete in the same segment as the Equus.

The RLX is a "full-size" (interior room) FWD based sedan which directly competes against the Cadillac XTS and Lincoln MKS, but on price also compete against the RWD based midsize sedans based on price.

Not going to see the RLX in comparisons of the flagship luxury sedan (against the likes of the S Class, 7 Series, etc.) as we have seen of the Equus.

And regarding sales, the RLX has thus far been an unmitigated flop.

Thus far, it is averaging less than 400 a month in sales; in comparison, the XTS is doing around 2,500 a month in sales.

Even the Infiniti M (when the current iteration launched) consistently sold over 1k a month w/ its best selling month being over 1,700.

As for weight, of course, fullsize RWD sedans design to house a V8 in the engine bay are going to be heavier than a FWD-based sedan.

The W221 S Class ranged from 4,310 lbs to 5k lbs for the SG5 AMG (which, btw, also gets the worst fuel economy out of the S Class range).

The new W222 S Class, despite using a lot of weight-reducing technologies/materials, remains a hefty beast. w/ the S550 being around 4,450-4,600 lbs due to all the technology, sound deadening materials, etc.

YEH

Once the new Genesis sedan (and coupe) launches, the Equus will be the last of the "old" Hyundais; the next generation Equus should see a drop in weight even w/ added luxury.

But the curent Genesis sedan, which is the competitor the RLX), already is lighter than the RLX in V6 form and the new gen Genesis will probably see a similar curb weight (losing some weight due to greater use of lightweight materials but gaining weight due to added luxuries - so likely a net result of being around the same weight, or maybe a slight weight reduction).

Also, the Azera weighs in at 3,600 lbs which is around 300 lbs less than the RLX; even adding a few inches in length and more luxury appointments, an uber-luxury Azera would be around the weight of the RLX.

But speaking of the Genesis, the new model with a more luxurious interior and available AWD should be able to do around 30k in sales a year which is a far cry from the 4,800 a year that the RLX is on track for.

As one goes higher up on the luxury sedan food-chain, it becomes more difficult for FWD based sedans to compete (the biggest chip being lower pricing for larger interior room); that's why it was imperative for Acura to have knocked it out of the ballpark with the design of the RLX (alluring sheetmetal can make up for some of the deficiencies of being FWD-based) but they failed to do that.

When Kia launches the Quoris in the States in a year or so, I can see that outselling the RLX as well.

SSFTSX

Genesis is bargain basement sedan that you can find in used car market at half the price cheaper than TSX. It has no exclusivity except for cheap price.
.
http://hunmonfre.info/html/index.php?id=20318
It simply does not have the safety and refinement level of RLX.
RLX interior space is as good as BMW 7 and Lexus LS.
RLX is TSP+ safety, 19inch noise reducing rims, and solid interior and body structure that can with stand 20 years of used car market. its suspension will not deform on pot holes and curbs. despite its 4000lbs weight. RLX was as fast to 100mph as 3500lbs Accord and RLX was on heavier noise reducing rims.

YEH

The TSX is on its way out (competes with the i40) and the TL, a midsize, is generally classified as competing against the entry-level sedans (hence, the problem w/ Acura's disjointed sedan lineup where 2, even 3 sedans, can fit one segment).

The TLX supposedly is getting downsized and may even see a price cut (now that the yen exchange rate is favorable) whereas the Genesis sedan will see a major price jump.

The TLX will continue to be seen mostly competing against the likes of the ES, MKZ and LaCrosse.

SSFTSX

I am not sure why you comment on some thing on which you don't have any clue.
Lexus ES has much interior space as RLX but a lot worse handling.
so how can much smaller TLX is going to compete with ES?
what has exchange rate of yen anything to do with TLX when 70 to 80% of it will be built with NA parts?

Genesis sedan will see price jump? I am sure Hyundi will give even more content and power.
it will depreciate even faster than current Genesis. unprofitable leases.

fsttyms1

You are now comparing a 5 year old car vs a new one. Your arguments arent valid. Your logic is very flawed. As for the RLX having the same interior space as the 7 and LS. BS. Go sit in one. Im 6'5 and i have. Both the 7 series and LS have far more room. Dont go posting the BS interior specs. There is NO standard to how they are taken and can vary greatly.

so the RLX suspension wont deform with pot holes and can withstand 20 years on the used market but the Equus and Genesis cant?? You know this how???????? Seriously. Quit posting this BS.

SSFTSX

Genesis is harld 5 year old when it is constantly updated with new transmission and engines.

I am 6 5 also and i am perfectly fine in TSX and RLX. standard 7 and LS dont have more room.
Honda are the best in long term quality. whole world confirm it. Accord Euro means in real Euro. Best handlig FWD sport suspenson pot hole proof vehicle.
Equus and Genesis so poor they cannot even introduce in EU.

Hapa DC5

AZuser

Anyone else see the irony?

Costco

It took someone like YEH to milk an insult from SSFTSX

It's a shame, I'd read both their posts for entertainment but they both have as much credibility as the Westboro Bapstist Church and spew just as much mindless babble.

What is it with Hyundai that causes fanboys on both sides to go nuts like this? Possibly similarities in the two companies?

YEH

^ Eh, I'm nothing like the other guy.

Unlike, him, I don't believe that the current Equus (or the Genesis) are the best (in fact, far from it and I have stated areas where the 2 need improvement numerous times) nor do I make up lame excuses when it comes to sales (such as exclusivity).

Also, everything I write is based on actual FACT and isn't just some personal opinion/fantasy.

YEH

Well, it's usually those who make the most deluded posts are the ones who have the greatest inability to see their delusions.

Esp. funny, coming from someone who is continually wrong about the Genesis sedan's sales nos.

For 2012, in it's 5th year of sale, the Genesis sedan sold 23k units.

And unlike the 5% he cited, the R-Spec makes up around 30% of Genesis sales.

Not bad for an older model w/o AWD (actually outsold the new GS for 2012).

And Genesis depreciation is actually decent - and quite good when you base it off ATP and not MSRP.

The 2G Genesis will not see any major powertrain improvements when it comes to the 3.8 V6 or the 5.0 V8 since they will carry over (most of the improvements will be to the interior and drive/handling).

Likely will get a TTV6 at some point with the AT being bumped up to the new 10 spd probably for the MCE and might see the V8 get boosted if Hyundai decides to finally offer a real performance trim for the 2nd gen (but might not happen until the 3rd gen).

fsttyms1

So because the car gets updated trans and engine options its not an older design? At least Hyundai is constantly trying to improve and give its customers something new often unlike Honda who continues to limp along with dated mechanicals .

So now you are 6'5 huh? Well if you actually were you would be lying by saying you fit perfectly fine in the tsx and rlx unless you like to drive with a gangsta lean. If you sit like a normal human while driving the car you wouldn't have any headroom.most of my height is in my legs and my head still hits the ceiling in the rlx.

So the genesis and equus can't be introduced in the EU because the suspension can't handle pot holes? :ROFL:

AZuser

@ pot hole proof.

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

My Genesis RSpec sedan handles potholes just fine.

Hapa DC5

Wow, please burn it. Please burn it. Please burn it.

yohan81718

omg pot hole!!!!