Maximized

I've never heard of Bottonwillow before

As for torque, your statement about redline is a bit misleading. It's more than just a redline that determines torque such as head design('S), camshaft lift and duration, intake manifold(runner design), and most importanly displacement. I would think that no one would argue that the LS7 lacks torque and the engine is capable of 7K+ rpms and DOES have the best of both worlds (Low End/Top End).

Your G35 is dead after 6.5K because of restrictions in the intake and exhaust. The heads on the VQ actually flow very well. The new VQHR takes care of those restrictions and is happy to rev much higher.

oonowindoo

FYI: Alot of ap1 owners want AP2 suspension because the shocks are supposely better than AP1. But most of s2k owners dont leave their cars stock anyways, so it doesnt matter if AP1 suspension is better than AP2 or AP2>AP1, they r all gonna change it.

of course it s more than just that. But typically you wont have a HIGH REV engine with a lot of torque. i am not an expert of engine but from the cars i have seen and read and driven... it s either ALOT OF torque with low redline 6.5k or 7k or no torque but high rev
Ls7 7k is not considered a HIGH REV engine to me.


I havent tried the VQHR so i dont know but i am sure it is better. *i might trade in my G35C again for the new G35*

and dead after 6.5k is NOT because of restrictions in the intake and exhausts. It is because THERE Is Simply NO MORE POWER after that.
I have CAI and full catback with no cat. it is still dead after 6.5k.

but i dont think my VQ35 is any inferior than my 2.2L s2000. they are just different. If i feel like to go fast without effort than go with an engine that has a lot of torque. and if i feel that i wanna rev the engine like there is no tomorrow yet it puts a smile on my face that has a GO Cart handling then i will drive my s2k...

That is why i have both.

Maximized

7,000 RPMs in a pushrod V8 is a high revving engine. I personally think that comparing redlines is insignificant. If an engine makes 500 hp at 5,200 rpms and has a meaty power curve, who cares? In race cars RPM matters, but in street cars it's similar to ricers calculating HP/Liter.

Your car is dead because of the actual intake manifold, plus the camshaft specs. You can extend the power a bit with the Crawford plenum.

LiQiCE

Wait are we comparing street cars or sports cars / race cars? When we started this conversation you said the S2000 had no torque (or something similar to this), and there were some arguements that compared to other cars on the street, like a 4cyl Honda Accord or whatever and I'm pretty sure you said we were talking about sports cars not just any street going car. And for a sports car, the torque on the S2K was low ...

But if we're saying redline doesn't matter for street cars, it only matters when you're on the track, then I'd argue that torque doesn't really matter either. In fact, most of the time, the S2000 can accelerate faster than the cars in front of me, and I'd rear end them if I really made use of my crappy torque. I'd imagine that you can't easily make full use of your torque on the street either, unless it were empty in which case I could also make full use of my redline.

It goes both ways ... Just trying to point out that if we're just talking about everyday driving, then really torque and redline don't matter. I could easily get away with a 130hp Civic and get a nice 50mpg or so and I'd get from point A to point B. Again like I said, the S2000 may not be the fastest car in the world, it may not be the best handling car in the world. It may not have the highest redline or the most torque out there. Its not the most luxurious, the most sporty, or the most economical. But for $30K, it puts the biggest smile on my face when I drive it. Its an enjoyable car to drive, maybe not for everyone but for me. If there was just a 'best' car for your money out there, everyone would have the same car.

srika

interesting, interesting.

oonowindoo

Exactly who cares? i never said i dont like cars with lower redline (more torque) that is why i have G35. but i dont hate cars with no torque either because they have their advantage too.
many ppl complaint about s2k with no torque... yes true and so? If they want a roaster with torque then Z4 is their choice and i dont think there is anything wrong with Z4. but some ppl like me prefer a high rev roaster then s2000 is my choice.

also, except the cam. i had plenum spacer and ECU reflash.. my redline was at 7.3k after that. but yah it helps but still lose significant power after 6.5k

you have missed my point:
i am not trying to say high redline is better than lower redline with lots of torque. you complaint about S2k with no torque and stuff so i am just trying to make a point here.

u know what:
The truth is higher redline is more satisifying.. not necessarily better in terms of performance but it s more satisfying.
sometimes i wish my ap2 has 9k redline.. i love the feeling of endless rev but yes i wish it had stronger low end but nothing is perfect.....

oonowindoo

also 7k rpm in a V8 might be a high rev engine to you.

But to me
M5's V10 with 8k+ rpm IS a high rev engine. and yet it lacks torque compare to other V10s....

runnerX

Didn't Hitler go over this on the other thread
https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/hitler-needs-new-car-350144/

"How about a S2000?"
"Are you f*ing shitting me?!!!"
"But the HP per L"
"Who gives a fawk about HP per L!"
" my lawnmower has more torque "
"I said I want a car not a weed eater!"

S2000

Okay, I drove both.. I prefer vette over s2000 any day of the year.. here are the reasons:

1. Just like Hitler said. no torque. you freaking have to redline and drop clutch on 1st gear (drive it like you freaking hate it!), otherwise expect 7 second+ on 0-60mph run. There are ppl went through a few Diff and clutches already on s2ki forum..

2. Vette handles as good as s2000, even with its "low tech" leaf suspension.

3. Vette looks better

4. You can't listen to music in s2000. YOu pretty much has to yell at each other..

5. you get faster laptime in a vette than a s2k.

oonowindoo

1. are you racing with someone in every traffic light?
2. true i know C6/Z06 handles great
3. vette looks good but i wont buy it. personal preferences
4. um.. it is a softtop roaster that cost 30k but yes i complain about that a lot too
5. that, depends on the driver. just because 1 driver could doesnt mean all the drivers could.

Also: yes i prefer to drive my g35 daily because it is easier to drive but still you dont have to redline in every traffic light just to make s2k go.

ur comparing a corvette with a s2000.... why dont u compare E60 M5 with corvette?
1 is V10 high rev with not a lot of torque for a V10
and the other one has alot of HP and torque ?

i will take M5.

runnerX

M5 > Vette > s2k

oonowindoo

again: i dont think s2k is the best sports car there is. but for 30k it is the best roaster in terms of performance.
2.0/2.2L I4 can do 0-60 in mid 5 and 1/4 in high 13,low 14 is very impressive for what it is. a small 4 banger that came out 6 years ago can still hang with the big engine V6 today is also impressive.

oonowindoo

but u just cant simply compare vette and s2k... 1 is a big v8 and the other one is a small I4.....
one of biggest selling point was 240HP from a 2.0 NA I4. well at least that s what it is famous for.

it might not be useful but it is some good stuff...

phile

The S2K is kinda like the NSX trouble for Honda...what to do for a follow up? I can't wait/hope for the redesign.

Maximized

I wouldn't say that the M5's 383 ft/lbs of torque is "lacking". Again, your comparison is a bit flawed because of displacement

Maximized

The LS2 is a V8 .

I'd take the Vette if I was looking for a sports car and the M5 for a sedan.

runnerX

I thought someone else started the comparison between vette and s2k.. no?

Sorry I didn't read through all 12 pages of posts... LOL

oonowindoo

i didnt either. but i didnt start vette vs s2k.

oonowindoo

yah what i mean by lacking is compare to its competitors.. yes 383ft/lbs is good enough but it is still lacking compare to others like E55 but it revs alot higher than its competitors which to some people (LIKE ME) is more fun and enjoyable.

Same apply to s2k. s2k lacks torque compare to other roasters but it has its purpose to rev higher.

to some people revving higher is useless when they can get the same job done with more torque (Speed wise) i totally understand that.

But to me and thousands of others, we like the other way around.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

what point are you trying to make here?

That could be the curb weights, the power, or the pricetag...

And honestly, how did the Corvette, which has a price tag that is 50% greater than the pricetag of the S2k, get brought into all of this? And we won't even talk about how much pricier the M5 is...

oonowindoo

i dont know. it was his fault he brought vette into this conversation so i had to use M5 as comparison.. so totally his fault

runnerX

No... I swear.. I read somewhere someone was comparing s2k to vette.. so I stepped in to defend for the American super car. not my fault either.... lol

srika

M5 vs Vette vs S2k?!?!?!?! Geezus I dont know what you ppl are talking about anymore. You know what, I would take an Enzo over ALL of those.

Maximized

Again, look at the comparison of displacement. The E55's 6.3L V8 has a considerable advantage in that department.

srika

:ibsomeonecorrectsyou:

heyitsme

At 30k its the only, you know 4banger charging 30+k.

corey415

2006 Lotus Elise Convertible Base
Engine: 1.8L DOHC 16V I-4 190 hp
MSRP Price: $43,915

vishnus11

Disect my sentence and tell me how it is a textbook definition of "contradiction". You really just can't read.

vishnus11

I'm just as confused as you are....

The original two points being contested were that

1. The S2000 has "no torque" under 6k rpms for daily driving. I posted dyno plots that showed AP2's making at least 85% of their max torque above 2800rpms. It's by no means a torque monster, no where near in fact, but it is more than up to the task of daily driving, even when under 6000rpms.

2. The AP2 has "dumbed down" handling. I posted reviews, laptimes, and our own oonowindoo posted his comments regarding the equal or better handling of the AP2 that contradicted this assertion, and common misconception.

vishnus11

what the heck is your point. Your comparing a $50k car to a $35k one. Depending on the situation such as in a tighter autocross setting, the Vette just won't handle as well as the S2000 - I've seen this with my own eyes at many a autocross. You like the looks of the Vette, I like the looks of the S2000 more.

I prefer the Veyron to the Vette. The Veyron handles better, looks better, goes faster, and you can probably get a faster lap time out of it.

F23A4

Well, it looks like this thread has gone to hell and back in a handbasket.

Maximized

First, look up contradiction in Websters because you don't have a firm grasp on the definition.

Then read your statement:
"Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks retardness and unwarranted personal attacks in lieu of facts, warrants banning. "

Referring to me as retarded isn't a personal attack? You try to talk intelligent and try to bash my reading skills, but again the statement above contradicts that. It's clear by this statement a couple weeks after this thread stopped, you had to take a cheap shot and instigate a further arguement.

Oh yea:

Vette>S2K in every measurable performance category. I am not sure how that got brought into this thread, but the S2K isn't even in the same league as the C5/C6. The C4 would be a better comparison.

Ken1997TL

This whole debate about the S2000 vs X is pointless, its mostly opinion here.

You either like the car for what it is, or you dont. Lets move on.

mrdeeno

I remember a certain thread where i expressed my opinion concerning a certain acura without making any attacks, and vishnus struck first and quickest to point out that I'm an "idiot" or something along those lines.

Contradiction isn't the word...the word is hypocrite.

Look up "Honda Fanboi" in a dictionary, and the cross reference will link you to "vishnus".

If you say something like, "The S2000 is a hot car, but it's too small for me", he would take that statement as honda bashing.

gavriil

I agree. More satisfying is right.

Yes there is perfection. In an engine that's large and high revving. Like Ferrari engines, the 6.2L AMG engine, etc. That's where you get the best of both worlds. Big torque, due to size and satisfaction due to a large range of power (high revving). The problem, for some of us, is the cost of these engines and the vehicles that carry them. LOL.

gavriil

Considering it's OHV, it's extremely high revving. Not considering its design, it's above average. I perceive 6250 rpm as average, regardless of head design.

gavriil

I also would prefer a Vette, keeping price aside (although price is a major criterion when purchasing a vehicle), for mostly the same reasons you stated above. However the S2K does have its target market and followers for other reasons. IT's a matter of preference. Although I am guessing if the price were the same, the S2K would lose a lot of its followers, but that is not a fair comparison because the S2K would be a different vehicle in such a case.

gavriil

Just like their prices would go LOL

gavriil

No doubt about that.

gavriil

Preference is the right term for this discussion. Of course the other right term not used much is "pricing".

I still remember how turned off I was when I came out of my first test of a (year) 2000 S2000. I thought to myslef, if I want to buy a bike, I would not go to a car dealership (exaggerating of course but my point is clear). And I still remember how blown away I was by the C6's drivetrain when I came out of the two I drove two months ago! I still cannot get over the feeling of that engine between 1500 and 4500 rpm! I was, beyond, blown away! My first thought was "this is absolutely the drivetrain for me" and my second was "I cant believe how "little and petty" the 6 cylinder cars I drove a few days earlier felt (Cayman S, Boxster S, M3, M Roadster, etc.)"

That does not mean that the Vette is BETTER than the rest of the cars listed above, it means it's BETTER FOR ME!

gavriil

No it's not.