dom

From Leftlane news...

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/12/...v8s-to-lineup/

Better late than never.

joerockt

Well, the RL and MDX can use it. But why not for the Pilot and Ridgeline??

corey415

Ehh. I'll believe it when I see it.

Mokos23

That was about 15 yrs late.

One thing I wish is put a V8 in the TSX, make it SH-AWD and it would definately compete with the Audi S4.

I know you guys said that even a V6 couldn't fit in the TSX, but how were VW/Audi engineers
able to put a V8 in the A4 bodyshell even if the A4 is smaller than the TSX???

Does that mean German engineers are smarter than Japanese engineers?

JediMindTricks

dom

It will happen. I don't think they have a choice in the matter really. But it is late.

Yumcha

X 1,000,000

LuvMyTSX

Sweet. I'm interested to see what they come up with, and how the Acura brand (hopefully) will differ from Honda.

fsttyms1

I believe it but it seems they are awfully late to the game. Also i hope RWD would be a option and not just the :ghey: SH-AWD

dom

While I agree, Audi seems to be doing pretty good with that setup.

Mokos23

I have a feeling Acura will always be unfortunately both a FWD and SH-AWD brand. RWD and Honda/Acura I just don't see it. I hope I'm wrong though.

csmeance

most likley, the v8 will be in the RL standard and in the 2009 TL type s, with the TL (non type-s) featuring the current 3.5 L 283 HP engine. The TSX will get the 3.2L that the TL currently has maybe with and upgrade of a type-s containing the 3.5L 283HP engine. Acura is implemeting SH_AWD in all of their cars and RWD does not seem like a possibility as acura thinks it is below SH_AWD. Also acura will stay with their 300 HP V6 for the MDX as it have good gas milage and puts out the performance needed for an SUV, also acura won't interuppt in their "prestgious" 5 year cycle, adding a v8 to the MDX. For those not filmiar with the 5 year cycle:
2004 3rd gen TL 1st year
2005 2nd year
2006 3rd year
2007 Mid model change 4th year
2008 Mid model change 5th year
2009 4th gen TL 1st year

MSZ

Doesn't surprise me one bit. They are going to launch the Acura brand in Japan in 08...without V8 engines in their line-up, they will be in big trouble facing the competitions from Lexus and Infiniti.

aesir11

Eh, they're just starting development............ arghhhhhhhhhhhhh, from all the talk about it going years back on vtec.net, I was hoping they already started it and we would see something in the 2008 lineup.

MeehowsBRZ

Shouldn't the next gen TL come out with a V8 in the near future. I couldn't see any V8's in the current models except for maybe the MDX. Honda doesn't really seem to want the Acura brand doing anything unexpected right now like putting a V8 in the current TL, RL, or MDX.

oem tsx

mr deeno is a white power nazi supremist, he must be banned

vishnus11

This has to be the dumbest thing I've read all day.. Are you 12 yrs old?

German engineers are smarter than Japanese engineers? Why? Because they can shove a V8 into an A4. So does that mean by the same yardstick that American engineers are smarter than German engineers because they put a V10 in a car (viper) smaller than an A4?

Apart from the fact that sticking a V8 in a TSX would make the car front heavy, and handle like a pig, it would also cost a heck of a lot more than 30k, and have extremely limited appeal. An RL with a V8 makes more sense.

Want a TSX with a V6 - its called a TL

mrdeeno

wtf?

fsttyms1

I dont think it will be hard for them to develope one. They have a small displacement V8 already in the IRL, and i bet it wouldnt be hard to make that a very reliable street motor.

biker

While Honda fanboys (and critics) will be happy to have a V8 under the hood of an RL (or any car for that matter), Honda will be the loser in the long run when the addition of the V8 will yield virtually no increase in sales.

phile

Honda has always insisted that the V8s in their competitors account for only a small percentage of sales. So what makes you think they were even expecting a sales increase anyway?

mrdeeno

It's not the direct increase of sales from a V8...it's the image/perception of the brand that increases sales of non-V8 models.

Let's say that a theoretical V8 RL sells 100 per year. All the naysayers will complain that a V8 was a waste of money. But what about the people that NOW consider Acura a "true" luxury brand and therefore consider purchasing an Acura, even V6 models? Even if a V8 only sells 100 per year (which I'm sure it would do mcuh better), if it brings in 1000 or 2000 more customers who never would've considered Acura before, then its worth it.

gocubsgo55

complete

gavriil

No need for personal attacks like these.

gavriil

I disagree because your statement assumes that the product will remain largely the same. Meaning, if you put a V8 in the TL and also SHAWD, then sales will not be affected by much. But a much better, TL, with a V8 as an options might help the TL lineup for example. I also think that the MDX could benefit from a V8 mainly because it got real heavy at this point. Same for the RL. It could benefit from a V8 because now it can become larger, size-wise. It will be more of an appealing product if it had more room in the rear.

F23A4

That was well stated.

mrdeeno

oemtsxparts is just a douchebag...the last time I posted on this thread before his post was in April, so I have no idea where his attack came from.

biker

And what I'm saying is that the indirect increases will be minimal also. Do you think that the rest of the 3 series would be affected any major way if there was no M3? I highly doubt it. The V8 image only makes a diff for the fanboys and the media - Joe Bloe coming off the street wanting a mid sized lux sedan doesn't care much about how many cylinders are under the hood - even in the halo model.

Yes, I realize that there's some value for the marketing folks to be able to claim V8 availability, but as the story of the NSX has come out (it has lost $$$$$ over the years), it comes at a very high price.

dom

The proof is in the pudding. At least most of it. 732 RL's sold in November. I know that can't be blamed on a lack of a V8 but something has to done to bring more people (different people) into Acura showrooms. A V8 is a start.

SiGGy

Honda/Acura is hosed guys, tossing a V8 into the mix isn't going to fix their image.

Lets see...

1. They sold kids cars as luxury cars (RSX) HUGE mistake
2. They have only sold mostly *NEAR* luxury vehicles (the only true luxury vehicle is the RL)
3. All of the cars are FWD, which is so conservative it only lowers their Luxury appeal that much more.
*Don't believe me, name another ALL FWD (near) luxury brand? (SH-AWD is too new, no one knows what it is)
4. Their flagship car looks god awful boring (conservative) for a $50k car.

Honda makes conservative automobiles with gizmos and gadgets to lure in prospective buyers...

They are far from being a Luxury class leader. However they do lead the class in conservative automobiles.

Sorry, but to be luxurious you can't be conservative at the same time. Until that changes, nothing will change with Acura. They just aren't taken seriously as a Luxury brand for the reasons above (and more). Polishing a tarnished image isn't as easy as slapping a v8 in a conservative product.

Acura brand image = conservative, near luxury. People thoughts when they see one "It's just a overpriced honda"

In a country where image seems to be everything. They have a lot of work to do.

Dan Martin

Does anyone know why Burger King sells a Triple Whopper?

It's not because they want to cater to their 400+LB demographic as some may think, it's actually so they can sell the more profitable Double Whopper.

The idea is they want to get the guy who walks into one of their restaurants and thinks "hey, I'm hungry so maybe I want more than a single whopper". If the only choice is single burger or a double burger, they're more likely to choose the single because two patties is too much. However, if there's an option to get three patties, then two really can't be that bad, so they order the double.

Sure BK will sell the occasional Triple Whopper, but for every Triple Whopper they sell, there will be many more double whoppers sold. Hence, they've increased the average bill for each customer.


I'm sure Acura is trying to do essentially the same thing. They’re starting to realize that a V8 can get new customers in the door that would otherwise not consider their brand, even if they don't end up buying a V8. Sure they'll sell some V8's but I bet their overall sales will increase just because they give the option to the customer. They'll come in for the V8, drive the car and love it, then when it comes to price and fuel economy, they'll choose the V6 because it's 95% the same car but cheaper.

How many 300C's are sold with a V6 versus a hemi?

dom

mrdeeno

and that's where i think you're wrong. A better and more competitive image will dramatically increase sales.

Joe Bloe coming off the street wanting a mid-sized lux sedan doesn't care much about how many cylinders are undre the hood, but he sure as hell cares what kind of image he's buying when he buys his "luxury" branded car. And if the brand he's buying from doesn't offer a V8 in their top models, there's perception that this brand is not a "true" luxury brand and he may pass them up altogether.

Joe Bloe is EXACTLY why Acura needs a V8. The VERY FEW enthusiasts that know and care about what a car is and what it offers don't need a V8. It's EXACTLY the MANY MANY Joe bloes and fanboys out there that Acura is missing out sales from. These are the same Joe Bloe's and Fanboys that end up buying BMWs and lexus and Infinitis. Why does it matter if someone buys an Acura because of the image of the brand or what the car offers? It doesn't because a sale is a sale.

As for the 3-series, yes the brand image BMW created helps sell the 3-series and adds to a shitload of sales. Not only from the performance of the M-line of cars, but also from every other model they sell from the 3-series, 5-series, 6-series, 7-series, Z-series, etc. etc. etc. How many "Joe Bloes" and fanboys do you know that bought a 3-series because it had a "BMW" badge on it? I think Acura would happy to have those sales. I know a ton of people who want a 3-series because it's a "BMW".

Crazy88

This whole V8 thing has been debated way too many times on here. I think we can all agree that Acura needs a V8.

I'll believe it when I see it.

heyitsme

I think a conversion to RWD would be the smarter route rather than this V8, unless they planned on building truck platforms/ larger suvs/ etc that honda and acura could both put a v8 in, but they just said acura only which leaves a pretty limited use of a v8.

With RWD they could focus on building real sports sedans/coupes with the use of turbo 4cyl and v6's. Turbo/RWD could take them up to the 70k price range right now while being used on every vehicle down to the TSX...

gocubsgo55

I agree, but euroaccord's argument isn't something to bash it all. Acura has 2 different cars to compete with Audi's A4; the TSX for the 2.0T and TL for the 3.2L. Same goes for the 3er and C-Class vs. Acura's competators.

The TSX has always been known for being a little sportier in comparison to the TL. I'm not saying Acura's going to do it because they won't, but I think it'd be great if Acura diverisified the engine lineup in the TSX. Shoot, Lexus did it with the IS350 and IS250, leaving the ES350 as a true TL competator, I think that's a good comparison.

Hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Also, I don't think the constant bashing on 04euro is neccessary. After all this is a friggen online forum not the WWE.

vishnus11

But to say German engineers are smarter than Japanese engineers, or vice versa doesn't make any damn sense?

biker

I'm sure they would, but making a V8 available in the RL is unlikely to change that.

The draw of a halo car is really hard to quantify - how many people did the money losing NSX bring in?

gocubsgo55

yeah you're right, but im sure he meant that sarcastically. Anyway besides all that, Japanese engineering really has flexed its muscles these past couple of years. Honda has developed brake mitigation, i-VTEC I (which is absolutely amazing), SH-AWD, and that badass night vision which pinpoints living things on a screen. Toyota AND Honda lead the pack in hybrid engines although Toyota has put the product out in many more segments, but Honda is ever so close to Fuel Cell production cars.

German engineering has continued producing its awesome little gizmos, but Japan isn't just "copying" and "playing conservative" anymore. We'll be saying the same about Korean automotive engineering in a couple years, that's for sure. Then when China becomes a super power, we're going to be bashing THEM for copying Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura

shrykhar

I was actually thinking of starting a thread on that. I'm not sure it's a direct cause-effect relationship in which you kill the halo car, and overall model sales dies. It's a vague association kinda thing; I think Honda's sporty reputation came at least partly from the NSX. Mazda also makes sporty cars, but there's no supercar they have that stamps the "sporty" and "Mazda" connection into our brains.

Toyota, by killing the Supra, Celica, and MR2, is basically admitting that it couldn't make a sports car to save its life. However, it's halo car IS the Camry. Look at how all car reviews compare the Corolla and Yaris to it; it defines the character and nature of the cars, and to some extent, the company.

The Germans, I think, do this with their extravagantly priced leather- and wood-swathed luxoboats. It's why Mercedes lures so many people in with the C-series, and BMW has suckers lapping up its "ultimate driving machine" 3-series spiel.

That's one of the problems with the Koreans (not to mention the Chinese) -- they may make pleasant cars, but there's nothing you can point at that they've done to show that they're a beacon of engineering excellence.

Of course, this is a huge IMHO, and I have the vague feeling that I'm just talking out of my ass.