Honda: CR-Z News **Facelift Revealed (page 31)**
07-13-2010, 09:42 PM
#681
Needs more Lemon Pledge
Wow, good info!
Wait, are the door latches exposed?
Wait, are the door latches exposed?
07-14-2010, 09:59 AM
#682
07-14-2010, 10:38 AM
#683
Senior Moderator
And the excitement ends once it takes you 9+ seconds (real world) to hit 60
07-14-2010, 10:39 AM
#684
Well folks, my flame suit is on because I'm about to jump crews onto the pro-CR-Z bandwagon and here's why.
As many of you know (and as I mentioned in this thead), I work moving new cars around at the Port of Portland which also happens to be one of Honda's entry ports into the United States. We have already gotten two shipments of CR-Zs and we are holding them until the August release date. Well today we had time to kill so the boss let us go over and check them out. Hybrid system shortcomings aside, I see this car having no problem selling like hotcakes.
For starters it is far better-looking in person then it is in photos. If you glance at it, the front appears to have some serious Audi R8 traits in the design and it certainly makes you do a double-take. The side profile is sharp and aggressive and the rear is nicely shaped although some of the people there picking the car apart weren't crazy about the shape of the taillights. The exterior door handles are the vertical type, echoing back to the CRX. This car looks like nothing else on the road and won't have any trouble turning heads on the street.
The interior is certainly a modern retro theme with the gauges being a focal point of the 'cool' factor. They appear almost 3D and the blue accents 'pop' out, leaving digits and the like recessed. The tachometer is analog and the only gauge of its kind in the car and it includes a digital speedo within its center void. The IMA, fuel, and coolant temperature gauges are LCD bar graphs and there is even a shift-up or shift-down suggestion light. I checked out the stick shift and while the travel is a little long, it's not rubbery or notchy in any way. My only complaint is that it's virtually impossible to grab 5th gear without going too far over, headed for reverse. Interior plastics are decent, the seats are comfortable and seem to be of a heavy-duty but soft fabric. Controls are typical Honda ergonomic with all buttons clearly marked. The entire center stack is cantered towards the captain's chair which provides a very driver-centric feel.
One big downside is visibility. The 3rd brake light creates an unwelcome split in the view out of the rear-view mirror, much like the view you'll get in any 2nd or 3rd generation Toyota Prius. Even worse, the blind spot over the driver's right shoulder is enormous and should have no problem hiding a Suburban-sized vehicle. Lane changes should be executed with extreme caution.
The hatch opens high but the lift-over is hip-level on my 6' even frame so make sure that golf bag clears before swinging it over. A subwoofer resides on the driver side of the cargo area and a temporary spare complete with tool kit reside just under the floor.
I haven't driven it yet but as soon as I get the chance, I'll post my impressions.
As many of you know (and as I mentioned in this thead), I work moving new cars around at the Port of Portland which also happens to be one of Honda's entry ports into the United States. We have already gotten two shipments of CR-Zs and we are holding them until the August release date. Well today we had time to kill so the boss let us go over and check them out. Hybrid system shortcomings aside, I see this car having no problem selling like hotcakes.
For starters it is far better-looking in person then it is in photos. If you glance at it, the front appears to have some serious Audi R8 traits in the design and it certainly makes you do a double-take. The side profile is sharp and aggressive and the rear is nicely shaped although some of the people there picking the car apart weren't crazy about the shape of the taillights. The exterior door handles are the vertical type, echoing back to the CRX. This car looks like nothing else on the road and won't have any trouble turning heads on the street.
The interior is certainly a modern retro theme with the gauges being a focal point of the 'cool' factor. They appear almost 3D and the blue accents 'pop' out, leaving digits and the like recessed. The tachometer is analog and the only gauge of its kind in the car and it includes a digital speedo within its center void. The IMA, fuel, and coolant temperature gauges are LCD bar graphs and there is even a shift-up or shift-down suggestion light. I checked out the stick shift and while the travel is a little long, it's not rubbery or notchy in any way. My only complaint is that it's virtually impossible to grab 5th gear without going too far over, headed for reverse. Interior plastics are decent, the seats are comfortable and seem to be of a heavy-duty but soft fabric. Controls are typical Honda ergonomic with all buttons clearly marked. The entire center stack is cantered towards the captain's chair which provides a very driver-centric feel.
One big downside is visibility. The 3rd brake light creates an unwelcome split in the view out of the rear-view mirror, much like the view you'll get in any 2nd or 3rd generation Toyota Prius. Even worse, the blind spot over the driver's right shoulder is enormous and should have no problem hiding a Suburban-sized vehicle. Lane changes should be executed with extreme caution.
The hatch opens high but the lift-over is hip-level on my 6' even frame so make sure that golf bag clears before swinging it over. A subwoofer resides on the driver side of the cargo area and a temporary spare complete with tool kit reside just under the floor.
I haven't driven it yet but as soon as I get the chance, I'll post my impressions.
07-14-2010, 10:45 AM
#685
Senior Moderator
07-14-2010, 01:57 PM
#686
Race Director
Hybrid system shortcomings aside, I see this car having no problem selling like hotcakes.
The average Azine contributor is way different than Joe Q Public car buyer.
07-14-2010, 07:24 PM
#688
Senior Moderator
I just wish honda would come out with something better than the IMA system, and add Diesel to it as well as a K series option.
08-15-2010, 07:16 PM
#690
Evil Mazda Driver
Well I have now driven several CR-Zs up to 35 or 40 mph and can say that if you want one of these, FORGET even thinking about the CVT model, go with the 6-speed. Just trust me with this one.
New owners of the CR-Z will want to familiarize themselves with the three buttons to the left of the wheel. They are 'NORMAL', 'SPORT' and 'ECO' and have a series of corresponding indicator lights in the dash. When normal is selected at a stand-still, the illuminated ring around the tachometer remains blue, matching the rest of the dash. As your driving efficiency increases, the ring goes from blue to green. Put your foot in it and the ring will turn orange, as if to scold you for your wasteful behavior. Select 'ECO' and it turns green along with the leaf symbol appearing in the MID. Let your finger jab the 'SPORT' button and the CR-Z's tach ring turns bright red and stays that way regardless of how you drive. Apparently they assume that if you push that button, you're throwing out any chance of giving a damn about your mileage.
The CR-Z is decent enough in normal mode but with Eco selected, it becomes insufferably neutered. Anybody who spends a great deal of time in Eco mode without needing medication needs their pulse checked. Sport mode injects a surprising amount of fun into the CR-Z driving experience. The throttle response is greatly improved and the car simply ignores any notions of getting good mileage.
The six-speed manual is wonderfully easy to wring from gear to gear although starting it with the IMA takes some getting used to. The CVT is an insufferable little snot box in my opinion and always feels like its tripping over itself in an effort to save fuel.
While it may not win any awards at the Saturday night drags, the CR-Z is a fantastic little handler. The steering is precise and direct and the suspension is firm without beating you up so the car corners as flat as Kansas without beating you up like Mohammed Ali.
Is the CR-Z a good car? Yes. Is it a CRX successor? Absolutely not.
New owners of the CR-Z will want to familiarize themselves with the three buttons to the left of the wheel. They are 'NORMAL', 'SPORT' and 'ECO' and have a series of corresponding indicator lights in the dash. When normal is selected at a stand-still, the illuminated ring around the tachometer remains blue, matching the rest of the dash. As your driving efficiency increases, the ring goes from blue to green. Put your foot in it and the ring will turn orange, as if to scold you for your wasteful behavior. Select 'ECO' and it turns green along with the leaf symbol appearing in the MID. Let your finger jab the 'SPORT' button and the CR-Z's tach ring turns bright red and stays that way regardless of how you drive. Apparently they assume that if you push that button, you're throwing out any chance of giving a damn about your mileage.
The CR-Z is decent enough in normal mode but with Eco selected, it becomes insufferably neutered. Anybody who spends a great deal of time in Eco mode without needing medication needs their pulse checked. Sport mode injects a surprising amount of fun into the CR-Z driving experience. The throttle response is greatly improved and the car simply ignores any notions of getting good mileage.
The six-speed manual is wonderfully easy to wring from gear to gear although starting it with the IMA takes some getting used to. The CVT is an insufferable little snot box in my opinion and always feels like its tripping over itself in an effort to save fuel.
While it may not win any awards at the Saturday night drags, the CR-Z is a fantastic little handler. The steering is precise and direct and the suspension is firm without beating you up so the car corners as flat as Kansas without beating you up like Mohammed Ali.
Is the CR-Z a good car? Yes. Is it a CRX successor? Absolutely not.
08-24-2010, 11:45 AM
#691
Senior Moderator
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...tdi/index.html
Round One: 2011 Honda CR-Z vs. 2010 Volkswagen Golf TDI
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz0xXhPT9DE
Last Page
MT FUEL ECON
OVERALL 28.5 mpg 29.3 mpg
ENTHUSIAST DRIVING 23.1 mpg 26.3 mpg
NORMAL DRIVING LOOP 27.4 mpg 29.9 mpg
RANGE (EPA COMBINED, TO EMPTY) 354 miles 494 miles
RECOMMENDED FUEL Unleaded regular Diesel
Its truly doesn't look good for this car unless they swap the drive train.
Round One: 2011 Honda CR-Z vs. 2010 Volkswagen Golf TDI
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz0xXhPT9DE
Last Page
The two-door Golf incited no such unrest. Although its test track numbers virtually overlay the CR-Z's (identical 0-to-60 and quarter-mile times, with lateral g and figure-eight times, nearly so), its turbocharged 2.0-liter's 236 pound-feet of torque give it explosive corner-exit responsiveness (though pulling away from a stop occasionally resulted in embarrassing stalls).
Scott: "The TDI takes getting used to after the frenetic Honda. The low, 5000-rpm redline, smooth engine, and lack of an exhaust note make it hard to judge when to shift, but it doesn't really matter. Just engage a higher gear, and let the torque pull you around. And other than lower rpm, you'd never know this is a diesel. Also, there's nice weighting to the steering wheel, the shifter's smooth, and the seats are comfortable with good positioning."
Ed: "I abhor the expression 'riding on rails,' but that's exactly what this little beastie does. It is so magic-carpet smooth it allows you to focus better when you push it hard. Really not a contest between this car and the CR-Z. This one feels far more solid and practical. It's the one I can see actually living with. Is it worth the $2955 premium? I think so."
2011 Honda CR Z 2010 Volkswagen Golf Tdi Front End
Several months ago, I notoriously picked the Insight over the Prius in those two cars' inaugural matchup, reasoning that Honda's more affordable hybrid hardware would guarantee it the greater universal appeal. Hey, maybe it would even become the Model T of hybrids, the car to put the world on electro-petroleum wheels.
Unfortunately, my thinking was as logical as it was humblingly wrong. With the perspective of 17 months, what the world appears to actually want in a hybrid is the best possible hybrid, not some economically rationalized compromise. Despite all the chatter about payback periods for hybridization -- five years, 12 years, whatever -- what buyers truly desire is a car that's simply great at what it's supposed to be (and now we know they'll pay a little more to get it). The CR-Z appears thick with Insight-think compromises that make nobody happy. Particularly when it's juxtaposed with Volkswagen's two-door, no-compromise diesel driving machine.
1ST PLACE: VOLKSWAGEN GOLF TDI
With better road manners, higher mileage, and a spacious back seat if you need it, the Golf's our easy choice. The only knock against it is a higher price, which we think is worth every penny.
2ND PLACE: HONDA CR-Z
A much more appealing car than the Insight it's based on, but we're wondering who the CR-Z's audience is. Honda desperately needs to build a flat-out Prius-beater.
Scott: "The TDI takes getting used to after the frenetic Honda. The low, 5000-rpm redline, smooth engine, and lack of an exhaust note make it hard to judge when to shift, but it doesn't really matter. Just engage a higher gear, and let the torque pull you around. And other than lower rpm, you'd never know this is a diesel. Also, there's nice weighting to the steering wheel, the shifter's smooth, and the seats are comfortable with good positioning."
Ed: "I abhor the expression 'riding on rails,' but that's exactly what this little beastie does. It is so magic-carpet smooth it allows you to focus better when you push it hard. Really not a contest between this car and the CR-Z. This one feels far more solid and practical. It's the one I can see actually living with. Is it worth the $2955 premium? I think so."
2011 Honda CR Z 2010 Volkswagen Golf Tdi Front End
Several months ago, I notoriously picked the Insight over the Prius in those two cars' inaugural matchup, reasoning that Honda's more affordable hybrid hardware would guarantee it the greater universal appeal. Hey, maybe it would even become the Model T of hybrids, the car to put the world on electro-petroleum wheels.
Unfortunately, my thinking was as logical as it was humblingly wrong. With the perspective of 17 months, what the world appears to actually want in a hybrid is the best possible hybrid, not some economically rationalized compromise. Despite all the chatter about payback periods for hybridization -- five years, 12 years, whatever -- what buyers truly desire is a car that's simply great at what it's supposed to be (and now we know they'll pay a little more to get it). The CR-Z appears thick with Insight-think compromises that make nobody happy. Particularly when it's juxtaposed with Volkswagen's two-door, no-compromise diesel driving machine.
1ST PLACE: VOLKSWAGEN GOLF TDI
With better road manners, higher mileage, and a spacious back seat if you need it, the Golf's our easy choice. The only knock against it is a higher price, which we think is worth every penny.
2ND PLACE: HONDA CR-Z
A much more appealing car than the Insight it's based on, but we're wondering who the CR-Z's audience is. Honda desperately needs to build a flat-out Prius-beater.
OVERALL 28.5 mpg 29.3 mpg
ENTHUSIAST DRIVING 23.1 mpg 26.3 mpg
NORMAL DRIVING LOOP 27.4 mpg 29.9 mpg
RANGE (EPA COMBINED, TO EMPTY) 354 miles 494 miles
RECOMMENDED FUEL Unleaded regular Diesel
Its truly doesn't look good for this car unless they swap the drive train.
08-24-2010, 01:02 PM
#693
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...tdi/index.html
Round One: 2011 Honda CR-Z vs. 2010 Volkswagen Golf TDI
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz0xXhPT9DE
Last Page
MT FUEL ECON
OVERALL 28.5 mpg 29.3 mpg
ENTHUSIAST DRIVING 23.1 mpg 26.3 mpg
NORMAL DRIVING LOOP 27.4 mpg 29.9 mpg
RANGE (EPA COMBINED, TO EMPTY) 354 miles 494 miles
RECOMMENDED FUEL Unleaded regular Diesel
Its truly doesn't look good for this car unless they swap the drive train.
Round One: 2011 Honda CR-Z vs. 2010 Volkswagen Golf TDI
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz0xXhPT9DE
Last Page
MT FUEL ECON
OVERALL 28.5 mpg 29.3 mpg
ENTHUSIAST DRIVING 23.1 mpg 26.3 mpg
NORMAL DRIVING LOOP 27.4 mpg 29.9 mpg
RANGE (EPA COMBINED, TO EMPTY) 354 miles 494 miles
RECOMMENDED FUEL Unleaded regular Diesel
Its truly doesn't look good for this car unless they swap the drive train.
08-24-2010, 01:45 PM
#694
Senior Moderator
i hope you arent implying that Diesel isnt widely available.
08-24-2010, 02:15 PM
#695
Jeff has his First Drive impressions up at TOV
http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=905336
http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=905336
08-24-2010, 02:30 PM
#696
The sizzle in the Steak
236lb/ft of it versus CRZ's (combined engine #'s) 181lb/ft.
08-24-2010, 02:43 PM
#697
Senior Moderator
08-24-2010, 02:52 PM
#698
Cruisin'
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jersey
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08-24-2010, 02:59 PM
#699
The sizzle in the Steak
Too bad we don't have a long running CRZ thread around here.
08-24-2010, 04:51 PM
#700
it's such a shame too, i checked this car out today at the dealership and the interior is very very good for the price range. not hot about the one cup holder that you gotta reach behind you to access though. not sure how Honda missed that one, they're normally pretty good with the cupholders.
08-24-2010, 08:28 PM
#701
and CRZ is more into college kid age or second car for a family. not as people haulder. so price is low and utility is low. and overal MPG is 28.5 vs 29.3. so hardly any difference when considering cost of diesel vs regular.
$8K is pretty big difference. when you add sales tax, registration and insurance cost. your pretty much at $10k total difference.
08-25-2010, 01:10 AM
#703
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
45-65 mph passing is identical. so there is no better real world drivability.
and CRZ is more into college kid age or second car for a family. not as people haulder. so price is low and utility is low. and overal MPG is 28.5 vs 29.3. so hardly any difference when considering cost of diesel vs regular.
$8K is pretty big difference. when you add sales tax, registration and insurance cost. your pretty much at $10k total difference.
and CRZ is more into college kid age or second car for a family. not as people haulder. so price is low and utility is low. and overal MPG is 28.5 vs 29.3. so hardly any difference when considering cost of diesel vs regular.
$8K is pretty big difference. when you add sales tax, registration and insurance cost. your pretty much at $10k total difference.
My brother used to have a 90 CRX. He wants to go check this car out. Hes 35. Im 21 and have absolutely no interest in owning this car in its present configuration. Nor am I willing to spend Si money on a car that gets only slightly better fuel economy then my current car (39mph hwy vs 32mpg).
Last edited by civicdrivr; 08-25-2010 at 01:12 AM.
08-25-2010, 06:28 AM
#704
Senior Moderator
45-65 mph passing is identical. so there is no better real world drivability.
and CRZ is more into college kid age or second car for a family. not as people haulder. so price is low and utility is low. and overal MPG is 28.5 vs 29.3. so hardly any difference when considering cost of diesel vs regular.
$8K is pretty big difference. when you add sales tax, registration and insurance cost. your pretty much at $10k total difference.
and CRZ is more into college kid age or second car for a family. not as people haulder. so price is low and utility is low. and overal MPG is 28.5 vs 29.3. so hardly any difference when considering cost of diesel vs regular.
$8K is pretty big difference. when you add sales tax, registration and insurance cost. your pretty much at $10k total difference.
And the vw can be had much less of a difference than your 8k difference. And let me be clear here. You are saying that your 2k in Sales tax, Registration and Insurance costs arent to be factored in with the CRz and that you dont have to pay that with the honda?
08-25-2010, 08:55 AM
#705
College kids arent going to buy this car. Its going to be just like the Element and attract the older crowd. Especially the 40 somethings that used to have a CRX.
My brother used to have a 90 CRX. He wants to go check this car out. Hes 35. Im 21 and have absolutely no interest in owning this car in its present configuration. Nor am I willing to spend Si money on a car that gets only slightly better fuel economy then my current car (39mph hwy vs 32mpg).
My brother used to have a 90 CRX. He wants to go check this car out. Hes 35. Im 21 and have absolutely no interest in owning this car in its present configuration. Nor am I willing to spend Si money on a car that gets only slightly better fuel economy then my current car (39mph hwy vs 32mpg).
slightly better economy? it got 28.5mpg vs 29.3 mpg for TDI. for same test condition SI will not get more than 20mpg.
People are getting 45mpg combined in TDI Jetta/Golf. This insight is right there among top fuel performer. I will take Japan built CRZ anyday on US built Civic. Hybrids are extra efficient in city driving.
08-25-2010, 08:57 AM
#706
45-65 is not real world driving. Thats drive it like you stole it.
And the vw can be had much less of a difference than your 8k difference. And let me be clear here. You are saying that your 2k in Sales tax, Registration and Insurance costs arent to be factored in with the CRz and that you dont have to pay that with the honda?
And the vw can be had much less of a difference than your 8k difference. And let me be clear here. You are saying that your 2k in Sales tax, Registration and Insurance costs arent to be factored in with the CRz and that you dont have to pay that with the honda?
16inch tires are cheaper than 17 inch tires.
08-25-2010, 09:50 AM
#707
hail to the victors
in my opinion, CRZ has a special appeal. i know performance is a bit of a let down and i still wish they fix the front, but overall it has grown on me. i actually like it alot. i love the interior. it would've been a home run if it delivered 42mpg+ mpg.
Some JDM examples.
Some JDM examples.
08-25-2010, 10:23 AM
#709
Senior Moderator
once again you had to bring tire size into it. I bet i could get the 17s for the same price as the 16s, if there was a difference it would be very minimal.
08-25-2010, 11:01 AM
#710
hail to the victors
well, i didn't like how the look when it came out. and there were many people who thought it was ugly which is far from the truth. after seeing in person, it is a good looking car minus the front IMO. there is something off about the front, but i think it's an easy fix with aftermarket kit. i haven't test driven yet, but it's safe to say it is a decent fun car.
overall it's one of the better effort by honda. i do find this whole hybrid thing is little pointless especially when it doesn't deliver over 40mpg.
overall it's one of the better effort by honda. i do find this whole hybrid thing is little pointless especially when it doesn't deliver over 40mpg.
08-25-2010, 11:13 AM
#711
אני עומד עם ישראל
I don't think this car's problem is styling or interior quality. Performance both in fuel economy and power output are disappointing. I know I was expecting more on both ends and I'm sure a lot of others were as well.
08-25-2010, 12:12 PM
#712
so you use the most expensive price to the low end price as a comparison? Yea........ ok..... Also I dont know where your from, but registration is the same for all cars here, Ins for me would undoubtedly be cheaper for me with the TDi and once again you had to bring tire size into it. I bet i could get the 17s for the same price as the 16s, if there was a difference it would be very minimal.
once again you had to bring tire size into it. I bet i could get the 17s for the same price as the 16s, if there was a difference it would be very minimal.there is no performance and handling difference even steering wheel ratios are pretty close. those who opt for CVT will easily get 45 mpg combined. with 6MT it will be more in 38 to 40mpg for normal driving.
08-25-2010, 12:29 PM
#713
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
It isn't IMO. I was 100% on board when they unveiled the concept. Then the powertrain details came out and all hope was lost.
08-25-2010, 12:51 PM
#714
Senior Moderator
CRZ EX has pretty much every thing standard like Auto Climate, HID, Blue tooth, tinted glass, LED brake lights, heated mirrors, fog lights. ony navigation is optional. it will still be loaded at $24K with navigation. vs $30K for Golf TDI.
there is no performance and handling difference even steering wheel ratios are pretty close. those who opt for CVT will easily get 45 mpg combined. with 6MT it will be more in 38 to 40mpg for normal driving.
there is no performance and handling difference even steering wheel ratios are pretty close. those who opt for CVT will easily get 45 mpg combined. with 6MT it will be more in 38 to 40mpg for normal driving.
I know people with Diesel VWs getting 50+ mpg (one of which is the bug) Thats a large increase over the CRz
And the golf can be had for WELL under 30k
08-25-2010, 02:51 PM
#716
The sizzle in the Steak
...to an extent. The front end is odd, and dumping the backseat for plastic bins is beyond stupid.
08-25-2010, 03:43 PM
#717
I skimmed thru the thread but didnt see anyone mention how much it would cost to replace a battery(is this fully covered under warranty). I have heard that they are crazy expensive. Also who buys a 2 seat car for fuel economy? All 2 seaters i have seen are sports cars. With all these hybrids with batteries, ppl are claiming the battery weight will go down 1/3 to 1/2 the weight in the next 5-10 years. Why buy a hybrid now, might as well wait till the battery technology gets better.
08-25-2010, 04:02 PM
#718
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I think I read somewhere that they cover the battery pack for 10 years. I could be mistaken though.
Oh, the original Insight was a two seater - which I still love that car. Sub-2000lbs, all aluminum, engine bay can handle a K20
Oh, the original Insight was a two seater - which I still love that car. Sub-2000lbs, all aluminum, engine bay can handle a K20
08-25-2010, 04:13 PM
#719
The sizzle in the Steak
08-25-2010, 04:22 PM
#720