biker

...and remember that this Civic was delayed by a year to improve the looks.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, Honda can certainly reduce power in the first few gears. The TL Type S has that feature, and it already uses double wishbone front suspension which is good for taming torque steer. Anyways, if you cut power for the first few gears,wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having more power? By the time you get through the "power cut phase", most likely you are going beyond the speed limit.

On the other hand, with AWD, you don't have to worry about torque steer and/or putting down the power to the ground. For the Civic Si, yea, it could use another 30hp/tq, but more than that would make the car a bit unbalance IMO. And I'd prefer having AWD (or RWD..but RWD Civic??) when there's over 250hp/tq. I agree, I'd like to see Honda making a awd sport compact too.

Moog-Type-S

http://www.leftlanenews.com/recalled...fuel-line.html

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

meh

oonowindoo

meh... i just read that the New SI has the "regular" cloth now instead of alcantara suede seats/steering wheel/door panels?

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

really??? that's really meh..

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

"This is Optima Thread, we can argue over in the Civic Thread. Let's not do the Magazine racing here.. bottom line. Old Engine, barely any performance gain if any. and Being Si, i dont believe less "noise" is a good thing considering it lost a lot of revs. and who cares about those LX and EX... they never had any performance anyways..they are just getting uglier and uglier

Let's continue in the other thread."

Well you see, my post was about the general Civic line up because you said,

"Let's just hope their next gen accord will be better.. from what Honda did to their Civic, i wouldn't count on it.."

I don't think there's an Accord Si, so I was assuming you were talking about the general Civic line up (the LX/EX), not the Civic Si. We already know the new Civic Si is nothing spectacular. I was even saying that I would get the 8th gen Si instead of the 9th gen because the 8th is more unique with its high revving K20. And I think we should stick with objective measures...as I find the new Civic better looking than before.

I don't really care if the engine is still the R18, as long as the car is faster than before while getting better mpg.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

^ Let me give you an advise. You know we are on an online forum, correct? Everyone has different opinions on everything. You can say whatever about anything BUT do not try to convince others opinions. It just won't work. You are just dragging the same crap over and over and over and over again.

phile

I think I love you

Costco

The cold, hard fact is that I've yet to hear anybody on AZ genuinely praise the new Si for its improvements. Instead, I see comments like "it barely looks any different", "rear looks like a Camry", "looks so much like the previous gen", "cheaptastic interior", "K24 lolwut?" etc.

I've yet to see anyone say "wow, looks great" (maybe, but I missed it and I certainly don't think so) or "can't wait to test drive/buy one" or "better than the previous gen"

The observation that it rides better and is faster around a track than the previous gen or lost a few dozen pounds may be somewhat impressive especially in the scope of the current auto industry's trends but really..... it doesn't seem like anyone cares.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

To me, it's like this.

It has not been improved enough for me to even get excited to test drive it.

Does this make any sense?

Trust me, I love the Civic Si, I almost bought one too when I was shopping for my MS3. In fact, I almost signed the contract before I realized the fags Honda dealership in Sherman Oaks was trying to rape me bad on the deal. I was THAT close to get one. It was like the 1st on my shopping list.

BUT, on the next day, I test drovethe Si, MS3, GTI, and MiniS back to back on the same day. That's when I realized the Si is clearly behind its competitor by far margin.

Moog-Type-S

It's essentially going to be the same car for a decade or more - spanning 2 generations.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for your advice. I certainly know that we are on an online forum. And of course, I respect opinions from other people. That's why in most, if not all of my posts, I try to stay away from talking about subjective areas like styling, interior design, how the car feels, etc (however, I did talk about the interior design of the Focus being like a Nokia phone).

If you haven't noticed, most (not all of course) of the times, I only talk about things like 0-60mph, mpg, chassis rigidity, etc. Often, I'd back my claims with actual numbers. So, when people come and say, "hey, the Civic is getting more ugly, and its interior design is too bland, and it's using old technologies," I simply tell them, "well, the Civic is capable of this and that in terms of performance, which is better/the same as so and so." I don't think that is trying to change the opinions of others right? I'm just pointing out some facts. I mean, I'm not saying, "hey are you blind or something? That's so much better looking than this and that." The fact is, everyone has different taste.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

But the bang for the buck factor is really bad on the Si in terms of performance numbers though. Let's not talk about aftermarket and the car's potential.

The competitors give you more numbers for the same money, no?

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Number to number, give us any performance measure that the Si is better than its competitors.

MS3 WRX MiniS GTi

Hapa DC5

I hate this damn commercial.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmnE-qf5P-4

Costco

Price and fuel economy? Lowest curb weight?

I'm just throwing it out there, since I don't really know. Surprisingly though, even though my brother drives it like a maniac, he gets 34 mpg average in their JCW R53 (supercharged MINI Cooper S). I'm sure his wife gets even better mpg since she drives it much more calmly. That's with a Roots-style blower too, I bet you can get similar or better fuel economy with the newer turbocharged MINIs.

The only problem.... the car has tons of problems! Not sure if it's a lemon but

What kind of MPG numbers are GTIs getting after APR reflashes? What about MS3s? I know STIs get kinda lousy mpg.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Price is pretty similar. Within 1-2k Of each other.

I'm getting about 24 mpg after tuning. But I can really f it up if I romp on it all the time. And if I'm really being careful about gas, I can get much better numbers. And I have more than tq under 3k to comfortably drive around.

And when I say performance measures.. its more like accelaration, handling type of numbers.

phile

i think it's funny in a weird way. they love trolls btw, remember the Pilot commercial with the troll?

afici0nad0

VTEC power meter? wtf...

Hapa DC5

Don't get me wrong the other's aren't so bad.

This one just reminds me of the mother hen fat chick you meet at the club who cockblocks on her friends and will stop at nothing to let you take one of her friends home.

Hapa DC5

Just saw the troll one again (had to refresh my memory). Still didn't annoy like this fat broad.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The 9th gen Si is ever so slightly better than the 8th gen Si in terms of performance, but I said this before,

"We already know the new Civic Si is nothing spectacular. I was even saying that I would get the 8th gen Si instead of the 9th gen because the 8th is more unique with its high revving K20."

Heck, I would even add that the K20 is probably easier/cheaper to modify than the 9th gen k24. For the 8g, I can get a race header, flashpro with custom tune, drop-in air filter, and aftermarket cams/valvetrain. $2500 for 50-60hp. Not the best bang for the buck of course, but for me personally, I'm cool with 240whp/250whp, 8600rpm, and instant throttle response!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Here's the latest MotorTrend comparison test of 8 compact cars:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/index.html

Unsurprisingly, Elantra got 1st place. However, the Civic got 2nd place. Performance wise, the Civic is right around average. That's including 0-60mph, 1/4 mile, braking (60mph-0), skidpad, and figure 8. And that's with the mediocre Bridgstone Turanza tires. However, the Civic gets the best real world mpg (as predicted) compared to other gasoline-powered cars. The Jetta TDI is better, but then it's a diesel (diesel energy density is higher). You can read the entire comparison test and verify the numbers here:

*Note where the Corolla is. Seems like there's still quite a bit of distance between the Corolla and the Civic.

Also, the 8th gen Civic in a motortrend comparo also got 2nd place many years ago. Considering that the competition has gotten so much better, I thought the Civic is doing fine as it can still hold its place.

dom

Problem really isn't with the regular Civic, (outside of that dreadful interior). I think we all agreed its just fine. (Although imagine how much better FE would have been with a 6sp) Any complaints we do see mostly involve styling which is subjective. Problem and the complaints we're seeing all involve the Si.

Saw a refreshed I guess its 11' Corolla this morning. As hard as we are around here on the new Civic, that Corolla is an absolute joke in the styling department.

oonowindoo

There is nothing wrong with 12' Civic LX and EX, other than how ugly they are. The price/performance/fuel economy/space/everything is pretty much the same among all Econ boxes. It's not surprising that Hyundai win, that thing looks 10x better than 12' civic. I know look is subjective but god damn, you are gonna tell me the new civic actually looks good?

2011


2012


However, 12' Si is really just.. Meh....There is really nothing "Si" about it anymore...

dom

Subjective, but in that group of 8 tested, everything but the Corolla looks better than the Civic. Some by a considerable margin.

But, the coupe looks pretty good IMO.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, looks is subjective, and I'm not saying the 12' Civic is pretty either. When the 8th gen came out, I thought it was ugly too (too futuristic back then). It slowly grew on me and the styling doesn't bother me anymore (though I still think the 8th gen coupe is ugly, hate the back). The 9th gen is so similar to the 8th gen, so it doesn't bother me either. In fact, its slightly more aggressive lines make the 9th gen more attractive than the 8th gen to me (more attractive doesn't mean it's beautiful though).

I don't know....none of these cars looks good to me. If I really have to pick, may be the Focus?

phile

lost to Elantra in Edmunds comparo too.

http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/el...ison-test.html

SSFTSX

Look at 0-100mph numbers. Civic is 1.7 second faster than Elantra. 45-65mph passing. Civic is half second faster. In Fuel economy Civic beats Elantra.
Honda was telling the truth that there vehicle is more aerodynamic.

Even in Inside line Civic is faster than Elantra. Inside didnot publish real world fuel economy just not to embrass Elantra despite having 6speed Auto.

Civic is better vehicle but it lacks newer cabin tech of Elantra like Rear camera, smart access etc.

http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/el...ison-test.html
An Ear for Details
If you're an engine connoisseur, you might complain that Hyundai's 1.8-liter feels strained as it nears redline and has a coarse, unmemorable soundtrack. In that case, you can hang with the 2012 Honda Civic EX-L Navi. Predictably for a Honda engine, the Civic's 140-hp, single-cam 1.8-liter four-cylinder is creamy smooth in its delivery and sacrifices low-end grunt in favor of high-rpm power.

That kind of personality usually goes better with a manual gearbox, but it works well enough with the Civic's carryover five-speed automatic

I'm All About Comfort
The downside to the 2011 Chevrolet Cruze's sportier setup is an occasionally harsh ride on crumbling freeways. If ride quality is the priority, the 2012 Honda Civic EX-L Navi is our top pick in this group.
That might surprise you since Hondas are not known for cushiness. However, the Civic EX-L isolates you from nasty patches of pavement, yet always feels buttoned-down and engaging.

Well tuned electric-assist power steering contributes to that sense of engagement. All three sedans use EPS, but only the most sensitive hands will pick up on the Civic's.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

^

Do you work for Honda? Because if you are, you are doing it wrong.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Man.. I still can't stop laughing at this guy talking about 0-100mph on these econoboxes..

Congrats to you, the Civic EX beat out the Elantra on 0-100mph drag race.

Do you really not have anything else to say?

Just admit it, the revamped Civic is just good but not great. The competition has caught up.

SSFTSX

There is 4 mpg difference in fuel economy based on MT test. It is not a small difference.
Civic also beat out Elantra in ride, refinement, rear space. Even in Navigation Civic offer free FM traffic.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Okay then why did it get beat out to Elantra? You should write a letter to all those magazines. Maybe, your post can be published on those reader's letter section.

SSFTSX

Because Elantra offer features that you can buy at BestBuy store. but you cannot buy refinement, comfort, fuel economy, rear space, performance without effecting reliability.
Civic has much simplified MMI and more ergonomic. Look at front vents in Hyundai.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

^ You win. I'm speechless.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

They probably had a typo under Data and Charts?

Where it says "EPA Fuel Economy Combined, mpg," I think they meant Observed Fuel Economy Combined. I mean...how can the 24mpg city/36mpg hwy = 25 combined for the Cruze? Or 29city/40hwy = 28mpg combined for the Elantra...or 28city/39hwy = 30mpg combined for the Civic?

Moog-Type-S

Civic wins....you wanna know why?

....just look at front vents in Hyundai.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Seriously that vents look like shit

Civic>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Elantra

All good now?

phile

why is he not on your ignore lists?! you don't even have to quote him and based on the responses I can tell what kind of BS he's writing