View Poll Results: What do you like Better?
Accord Concept Rims and Bodykit
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54
73.97%
2004 Acura TL A-Spec Bodykit and Rims
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19
26.03%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll
Honda: Accord News
#521
If they gave the sedan, the coupe rear end and redesigned the headlights for both as what that above wagon looks like, they would be set. Imo they had it just right with the last gen accord headlights.
![](http://www.1-accord-club.de/assets/images/Accord_Coupe_2gr.jpg)
Hopefully they have learned a leason from this and the next gen will be more sporty in the looks department.
![](http://www.1-accord-club.de/assets/images/Accord_Coupe_2gr.jpg)
Hopefully they have learned a leason from this and the next gen will be more sporty in the looks department.
#524
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by phile
Had the NA Accord looked anything like the initial drawings, it would sell a lot better.
![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/Littlearthquakes/Hondawagon.jpg)
![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/Littlearthquakes/Hondawagon.jpg)
#525
I'm the Firestarter
Originally Posted by phile
Had the NA Accord looked anything like the initial drawings, it would sell a lot better.
![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/Littlearthquakes/Hondawagon.jpg)
![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/Littlearthquakes/Hondawagon.jpg)
![Frown](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
#526
TL-SHAWD 6MT Rocks!
you get a lot more car in the TL for your money.
too many features the TL has that the accord doesn't.
plus I'm already getting 33 MPG on my 6MT on the highway...
in the long run, the hybrid will be more expensive to fix, 'cause it has dual technology.
![Racing](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/racing.gif)
too many features the TL has that the accord doesn't.
plus I'm already getting 33 MPG on my 6MT on the highway...
in the long run, the hybrid will be more expensive to fix, 'cause it has dual technology.
#527
Once the Japanese Auto makers master this technology. Don't be surpirised the whole range goes hybride in 2 years. I'm all for it. And yes, I would be a Hybride TL.
The Accord is not merely ugly, it's FUGLY. I'm sure there will be a TL hybrid next year. It's already ULEV, why not go the extra mile?
Originally Posted by neuronbob
![Werd](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/werd.gif)
#530
Originally Posted by iNteGraz92
there were two more drawings of the sedan, which IMO the final NA accord looked like, just less aggressive.
#532
Originally Posted by iNteGraz92
wow i found one drawing
![](http://www.mag-x.com/scoop/accord0112/01.jpg)
there is another one showing the rear which looks just like the usdm accords.
![](http://www.mag-x.com/scoop/accord0112/01.jpg)
there is another one showing the rear which looks just like the usdm accords.
![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/Littlearthquakes/HondaAccordrenderback.jpg)
#536
Race Director
Originally Posted by ryder1650
Wow the Accord definitely looks a lot better in the sketches...
#538
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Now just what is keeping me from buying it..![Ponder](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ponder.gif)
Oh yeah, HIDs not on them... and, yeah, payments on my TSX and all the negative equity that could result from the trade.
I might just wait for the IMA TSX, but I would love to get my hands on the IMA AV6 nonetheless...
![Ponder](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ponder.gif)
Oh yeah, HIDs not on them... and, yeah, payments on my TSX and all the negative equity that could result from the trade.
I might just wait for the IMA TSX, but I would love to get my hands on the IMA AV6 nonetheless...
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#540
Originally Posted by domn
$36,990. Less than I thought it would be considering a Civiv Hybrid is $28K CAD. Great value if I've ever seen one.
#541
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Originally Posted by majormojo
Heh heh. Sauceman driving a hybrid. I dunno, those twice-yearly fuel fillups might get a bit exhausting. ![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#542
Masshole
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2004 & 2005 Honda Accord Recall - Air Bags
http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/22/pf/a...reut/index.htm
I guess the 3rd gen TL has different air bags?
DETROIT (Reuters) - Japan's Honda Motor Co. Ltd. is recalling 257,616 of its Accord sedans from the 2004 and 2005 model years because of potentially faulty air bags, U.S. federal safety regulators said on Monday.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said a tear may occur in the driver's side front air bag of the Accords, increasing the risk of injury in a crash.
The recall is expected to begin on Dec. 6 and owners of the vehicles affected should contact the U.S. division of Honda at 1-800-999-1009.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said a tear may occur in the driver's side front air bag of the Accords, increasing the risk of injury in a crash.
The recall is expected to begin on Dec. 6 and owners of the vehicles affected should contact the U.S. division of Honda at 1-800-999-1009.
I guess the 3rd gen TL has different air bags?
![Dunno](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/dunno.gif)
#543
I'm the Firestarter
The way sauceman drives he probably won't save THAT much, I think hybrids are mostly great for city milage...
I'd love to have a TSX hybrid. Judging by the Accord cost, it would be about... $39,000?
I'd love to have a TSX hybrid. Judging by the Accord cost, it would be about... $39,000?
#544
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Originally Posted by Belzebutt
The way sauceman drives he probably won't save THAT much, I think hybrids are mostly great for city milage...
I'd love to have a TSX hybrid. Judging by the Accord cost, it would be about... $39,000?
I'd love to have a TSX hybrid. Judging by the Accord cost, it would be about... $39,000?
Of course, the IMA means enhanced torque at times, while at the same time flatters my little eco side as well (mileage set aside)
#545
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Honda Accord Hybrid - - Haul ass and save gas. - - BY PATRICK BEDARD - - PHOTOGRAPHY BY JEFFREY G. RUSSELL - - Source: CarandDriver.com December 2004
...
Highs: Thrusty midrange punch, about 600 miles on a tankful, comfy space for five, a hushed voice.
Lows: Honda's involving hybrid gauges shrank to squint size, no fold-forward rear seat, vague steering.
The Verdict: Saving gas has never been so painless.
...
Vehicle type: front-engine, front-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan
Estimated price as tested: $32,000 (estimated base price: $30,000)
Options on test car: navigation system
Major standard accessories: power windows, driver seat, and locks; remote locking; A/C; cruise control; tilting and telescoping steering wheel; rear defroster
Sound system: Honda AM-FM-XM satellite radio/CD changer, 6 speakers
ENGINE
Type: V-6, aluminum block and heads
Bore x stroke: 3.39 x 3.39 in, 86.0 x 86.0mm
Displacement: 183 cu in, 2997cc
Compression ratio: 10.5:1
Fuel-delivery system: port injection
Valve gear: belt-driven single overhead cams, 4 valves per cylinder
Power (SAE net): 240 bhp @ 6000 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 217 lb-ft @ 5000 rpm
Redline: 6500 rpm
ELECTRIC MOTOR
Type: 3-phase AC permanent-magnet synchronous electric motor powered by 120 1.2-volt nickel-metal hydride batteries
Power (SAE net): 16 bhp @ 840 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 100 lb-ft @ 840 rpm
DRIVETRAIN
Transmission: 5-speed automatic
Final-drive ratio: 4.38:1
Gear, Ratio, Mph/1000 rpm, Max test speed
I, 2.69, 6.5, 42 mph (6500 rpm)
II, 1.57, 11.1, 72 mph (6500 rpm)
III, 1.02, 17.0, 110 mph (6500 rpm)
IV, 0.73, 23.8, 131 mph (5500 rpm)
V, 0.53, 32.8, 131 mph (4000 rpm)
DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 107.9 in
Track, front/rear: 61.1/61.2 in
Length/width/height: 189.5/71.5/57.1 in
Ground clearance: 6.1 in
Drag area, Cd (0.29) x frontal area (25.3 sq ft, est): 7.3 sq ft
Curb weight: 3513 lb
Weight distribution, F/R: 61.3/38.7%
Curb weight per horsepower: 13.8 lb
Fuel capacity: 17.1 gal
CHASSIS/BODY
Type: unit construction
Body material: welded steel stampings
INTERIOR
SAE volume, front seat: 57 cu ft
rear seat: 46 cu ft
luggage: 11 cu ft
Front-seat adjustments: fore-and-aft, seatback angle; driver only: front height, rear height, lumbar support
Restraint systems, front: manual 3-point belts; driver and passenger front, side, and curtain airbags
rear: manual 3-point belts, curtain airbags
SUSPENSION
Front: ind, unequal-length control arms, coil springs, anti-roll bar
Rear: ind, 3 lateral links and 2 diagonal links per side, coil springs, anti-roll bar
STEERING
Type: rack-and-pinion with electric power assist
Steering ratio: 16.3:1
Turns lock-to-lock: 3.2
Turning circle curb-to-curb: 36.9 ft
BRAKES
Type: regenerative electric and electrohydraulic by wire
with anti-lock control
Front: 11.1 x 0.9-in vented disc
Rear: 10.2 x 1.4-in disc
WHEELS AND TIRES
Wheel size/type: 6.5 x 16 in/cast aluminum
Tires: Michelin Energy MXV4 S8, P215/60R-16 94V M+S
Test inflation pressures, F/R: 32/32 psi
Spare: none
C/D TEST RESULTS
ACCELERATION Seconds
Zero to 30 mph: 2.5
40 mph: 3.5
50 mph: 5.0
60 mph: 6.7
70 mph: 8.7
80 mph: 11.5
90 mph: 14.4
100 mph: 17.6
110 mph: 22.6
120 mph: 29.0
130 mph: 37.2
Street start, 5-60 mph: 7.6
Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 4.0
50-70 mph: 5.1
Standing 1/4-mile: 15.2 sec @ 93 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 131 mph
BRAKING
70-0 mph @ impending lockup: 193 ft
HANDLING
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.78 g
Understeer: minimal moderate excessive
FUEL ECONOMY
EPA city driving: 30 mpg
EPA highway driving: 37 mpg
C/D-observed: 26 mpg
INTERIOR SOUND LEVEL
Idle (internal-combustion engine off): 32 dBA
Full-throttle acceleration: 69 dBA
70-mph cruising: 68 dBA
Highs: Thrusty midrange punch, about 600 miles on a tankful, comfy space for five, a hushed voice.
Lows: Honda's involving hybrid gauges shrank to squint size, no fold-forward rear seat, vague steering.
The Verdict: Saving gas has never been so painless.
...
Vehicle type: front-engine, front-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan
Estimated price as tested: $32,000 (estimated base price: $30,000)
Options on test car: navigation system
Major standard accessories: power windows, driver seat, and locks; remote locking; A/C; cruise control; tilting and telescoping steering wheel; rear defroster
Sound system: Honda AM-FM-XM satellite radio/CD changer, 6 speakers
ENGINE
Type: V-6, aluminum block and heads
Bore x stroke: 3.39 x 3.39 in, 86.0 x 86.0mm
Displacement: 183 cu in, 2997cc
Compression ratio: 10.5:1
Fuel-delivery system: port injection
Valve gear: belt-driven single overhead cams, 4 valves per cylinder
Power (SAE net): 240 bhp @ 6000 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 217 lb-ft @ 5000 rpm
Redline: 6500 rpm
ELECTRIC MOTOR
Type: 3-phase AC permanent-magnet synchronous electric motor powered by 120 1.2-volt nickel-metal hydride batteries
Power (SAE net): 16 bhp @ 840 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 100 lb-ft @ 840 rpm
DRIVETRAIN
Transmission: 5-speed automatic
Final-drive ratio: 4.38:1
Gear, Ratio, Mph/1000 rpm, Max test speed
I, 2.69, 6.5, 42 mph (6500 rpm)
II, 1.57, 11.1, 72 mph (6500 rpm)
III, 1.02, 17.0, 110 mph (6500 rpm)
IV, 0.73, 23.8, 131 mph (5500 rpm)
V, 0.53, 32.8, 131 mph (4000 rpm)
DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 107.9 in
Track, front/rear: 61.1/61.2 in
Length/width/height: 189.5/71.5/57.1 in
Ground clearance: 6.1 in
Drag area, Cd (0.29) x frontal area (25.3 sq ft, est): 7.3 sq ft
Curb weight: 3513 lb
Weight distribution, F/R: 61.3/38.7%
Curb weight per horsepower: 13.8 lb
Fuel capacity: 17.1 gal
CHASSIS/BODY
Type: unit construction
Body material: welded steel stampings
INTERIOR
SAE volume, front seat: 57 cu ft
rear seat: 46 cu ft
luggage: 11 cu ft
Front-seat adjustments: fore-and-aft, seatback angle; driver only: front height, rear height, lumbar support
Restraint systems, front: manual 3-point belts; driver and passenger front, side, and curtain airbags
rear: manual 3-point belts, curtain airbags
SUSPENSION
Front: ind, unequal-length control arms, coil springs, anti-roll bar
Rear: ind, 3 lateral links and 2 diagonal links per side, coil springs, anti-roll bar
STEERING
Type: rack-and-pinion with electric power assist
Steering ratio: 16.3:1
Turns lock-to-lock: 3.2
Turning circle curb-to-curb: 36.9 ft
BRAKES
Type: regenerative electric and electrohydraulic by wire
with anti-lock control
Front: 11.1 x 0.9-in vented disc
Rear: 10.2 x 1.4-in disc
WHEELS AND TIRES
Wheel size/type: 6.5 x 16 in/cast aluminum
Tires: Michelin Energy MXV4 S8, P215/60R-16 94V M+S
Test inflation pressures, F/R: 32/32 psi
Spare: none
C/D TEST RESULTS
ACCELERATION Seconds
Zero to 30 mph: 2.5
40 mph: 3.5
50 mph: 5.0
60 mph: 6.7
70 mph: 8.7
80 mph: 11.5
90 mph: 14.4
100 mph: 17.6
110 mph: 22.6
120 mph: 29.0
130 mph: 37.2
Street start, 5-60 mph: 7.6
Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 4.0
50-70 mph: 5.1
Standing 1/4-mile: 15.2 sec @ 93 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 131 mph
BRAKING
70-0 mph @ impending lockup: 193 ft
HANDLING
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.78 g
Understeer: minimal moderate excessive
FUEL ECONOMY
EPA city driving: 30 mpg
EPA highway driving: 37 mpg
C/D-observed: 26 mpg
INTERIOR SOUND LEVEL
Idle (internal-combustion engine off): 32 dBA
Full-throttle acceleration: 69 dBA
70-mph cruising: 68 dBA
#546
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Damn, that thing is almost as fast as my TL and gets the same gas mileage my carburated '88 Accord!
![Ecstatic](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ecstatic.gif)
#551
I dunno, really don't see the value at those mpgs. Sure they are nice compared to gas engines in that category, but they aren't good compared to the prius. It should have been a 4cylinder option imo, that was getting at least 40city, 50highway. Going for performance is silly for the accord sedan. If thats what they wanted, all they had to do was drop a 6-speed in the sedan, add larger wheels and add 10hp to go against the altima. Right now we need economy. When the technology really develops, then I say jump into performance.
#552
6G TLX-S
Nickel-metal-hydride, umm. Rechargeable batteries have a definite charge/discharge cycle life. Did Honda mention how long will the battery pack last ? How much is the replacement cost ? Will the factory warranty cover the battery replacement operartion, parts and labor ? If not, owners will have to cough up major $$$ to replace the battery pack every couple of years.
#553
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
Nickel-metal-hydride, umm. Rechargeable batteries have a definite charge/discharge cycle life. Did Honda mention how long will the battery pack last ? How much is the replacement cost ? Will the factory warranty cover the battery replacement operartion, parts and labor ? If not, owners will have to cough up major $$$ to replace the battery pack every couple of years.
#554
6G TLX-S
The more the car is driven, the faster the rechargeable batteries are gonna loose their capacity to hold charge. What's the mileage quoted for the 8 years' life ?
#555
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
The more the car is driven, the faster the rechargeable batteries are gonna loose their capacity to hold charge. What's the mileage quoted for the 8 years' life ?
#556
6G TLX-S
Charging time, charging station availability, battery life, battery weight, battery cost, vehicle driving range, no power backup source, are some of the main reasons for the demise of the consumer-level electrical vehicles. The gasoine part of the hybric engine has taken care of some of the above problems. But until there is a major breakthrough in battery technology, the problems of battery life, weight, and replacement cost still remain.
#557
Cost Drivers!!!!
TOV: Accord Hybrid Review and Dyno
http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=311751
Pictures and video available at www.vtec.net
Pictures and video available at www.vtec.net
Following a couple of centuries of relieving Mother Earth of a disproportionately huge (relative to any other 200 year period in the history of mankind) amount of natural resources, much of the human race is starting to accept the fact that our resources are not limitless. Now we have commodes that are capable of flushing with a cup or two of water and shower heads that dribble out less than a Big Gulp of wet stuff every minute. Sure, it now takes 3 or 4 flushes and some sort of exotic pressurized plunger to fully rid the WC of last night's Gordita combo, and it takes about 23 minutes to wash and rinse your hair instead of 2, but we humans are very adaptive creatures, no? We've learned to live with it. And we suffer through all this just to conserve water, the most abundant and most renewable resource in the world. But what about conserving energy? Well a decade or two ago, GE developed their Miser line of lightbulbs - these revolutionary tungsten devices cast the light of a 100W bulb, but only consume 95Watts of electricity. How'd they do that? Think of the annual savings if every bulb in your house was a Miser. The figures are mind boggling! At the same time, the auto industry has been hard at work making the vehicles we drive more efficient. The first step was to cut the average curb weight and engine displacement by a factor of something like 40. Most people weren't too happy about driving to work in cars that accelerated like riverboats and crumpled like beer cans and torched their inhabitants upon the slightest impact. Better ideas were needed. So cars have gradually grown, and displacement and power have gradually been increased, as has fuel economy. But fuel economy still isn't where the greenest greenies want it to be yet, so the auto industry has developed a few options for them. There are really only two viable options at the moment - diesel and hybrid gas-electric vehicles. In the US, Honda's chosen the latter path, though in Europe you can also buy a turbodiesel Accord that apparently burns less oil than a Vespa.
Right around this time last year Honda casually announced to the world that they would be delivering the world's first hybrid gas-electric V6-powered vehicle. Big deal, right? At the time Honda already had two other hybrid models available in Honda showrooms, the second generation Toyota Prius seemed to be succeeding the Hummer H2 as the hot ride in Hollywood, and Ford's Escape Hybrid was already getting plenty of press (though they've only recently become available at the retail level). Heck, shortly afterwards, even Chevy announced they would be delivering a "hybrid" pickup truck (though calling it a hybrid is really stretching things a bit - all it really amounts to is a big generator, a battery pack, and an "idle stop" feature. There is no electric assist of any sort to aid in propelling the Chevy Silverado Hybrid.)
So what is the big deal about a Honda Accord Hybrid? Well, after driving one for nearly a week, I can tell you not much. I mean, jump in, put the key in the ignition, twist it to life, and besides a curious lack of the signature chirring sound of a standard Honda starter motor (and a slight but noticeable pause), it's pretty much business as usual. See, this is one of the few clues that there's something different - since the engine's flywheel now also functions as a motor/generator, the typical starter motor suddenly becomes obsolete. But then you put it into Drive and immediately forget that there's anything different about this car. Well, almost. Once the car is fully warmed up you'll also notice that the engine shuts down as you slow to a stop. This is the idle stop function, said to account for a full 25% of the 8mpg improvement in the EPA City cycle vs the standard Accord V6. Okay, so the idle stop does make the driving experience a little unique, but it works so well, it's not intrusive in any way. Otherwise, unless you pay careful attention to the activities of a small bargraph display situated beneath the odometer, all you'll notice is that you're behind the wheel of a supremely refined and rather quick automobile. Honda has largely bypassed the whole videogame driving experience of Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive (complete with realistic "auxiliary engine room" sound effects), which may help this hybrid find its way into the garages of more traditionalists and those who don't really care to draw attention to the fact that they're driving a Hybrid.
Honda says the Hybrid is a half second quicker to 60mph than a standard Accord V6, and after driving it that figure seems reasonable. In some casual testing with a Race Technology AP-22 (unfortunately we didn't have time to use our normal dragstrip for full testing) we recorded 0-60mph times averaging (2-way) right at 7.0 seconds, which is actually a half second quicker than Honda's own claims, but they're generally pretty conservative. This car jumps out of the hole smartly, smoothly, and almost silently (except in some traction situations, when the tires briefly scream in protest). It's clear that the transmission logic has been programmed to deliver supreme refinement as opposed to all out performance. Computer controlled upshifts occur several hundred rpm shy of the redline, and there is certainly some computer management of the ignition timing and throttle position to deliver consistently smooth shifts. Honda claims that this transmission actually cuts shift to one-third the time required by the standard Accord V6 transmission. This was made possible by a new "high-response" torque converter, which is very compact in design. The J30 sounds great all the while, yet never really raises its voice above a muted growl.
While standing start acceleration is quite brisk, this car also performs very well in overtaking situations. The transmission responds quickly and the assist from the IMA system (with up to 100lb-ft of peak assist on tap at 840rpm) provides instant effect, slingshotting the car around slower traffic with little effort.
From a chassis standpoint, the Accord Hybrid again provides a very similar experience to the EX V6. It runs slightly larger (215/60-16 vs 205/60-16) tires, yet the expected benefits of the larger contact patch are mostly offset by the extra 120lbs the Hybrid Accord carries. So that means it has a reasonable amount of cornering grip, but it's not going to be setting any lap records. The suspension tuning of the Accord Hybrid provides a pretty nice balance between ride comfort, responsiveness, and poise, but this car is not a sport sedan. It's a very comfortable and relaxed highway cruiser, yet it's playful and nimble enough to make for enjoyable backroad ventures at a moderately brisk pace. It's been quite a while since the last time I drove a standard Accord V6, but for some reason the Hybrid seems to be just a little bit stiffer and more composed, particularly with respect to the rear damping. The brakes are responsive and while there is some regenerative activity from the IMA system, the overall feel and operation remains pretty normal overall. The last Accord V6 I drove had overly grabby brakes - these were much better in that sense.
Perhaps the most noticeable difference between the standard Accord's chassis and the Hybrid's is the fitment of the EPS (Electric Power Steering) system. It's pretty nicely weighted, but like most EPS systems, it's a little numb in feel. This system is also a little different than other Honda EPS implementations (Civic Si, S2000, and NSX) in that the power assist continues to function even when the motor has shut itself off.
In order to maintain the Accord's nearly invisible profile, the bodywork of the Accord Hybrid scarcely departs from the standard Accord. Unique (and, if you ask me, rather homely) 16" alloy wheels and a decklid lip spoiler are probably the quickest way to spot the Hybrid, though the decklid spoiler (or a very similar one) is available as a dealer-installed accessory for any of the other Accord models. So much for distinction... There are a few other subtle clues, like a "black chrome-style" grille finish and a unique rooftop AM/FM/XM radio antenna, but only the (hard core) Accord cognoscenti would even notice. Honda credits the lip spoiler and (more aerodynamic) wheel design for improving the Cd to 0.29 (from 0.30), which benefits the fuel economy as well as reducing wind related noise. We noticed that the Accord cruises with very little wind noise or turbulence in normal circumstances, but if you encounter strong or gusty crosswinds, the car gets pushed around a bit too much and requires a lot of corrective steering action. This is an issue with the standard Accord as well - I was hopeful that the aero tweaks might have fixed it, but unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case.
One of the things I noticed while we had the Accord Hybrid was that NOBODY ELSE will notice that it's any different from a normal Accord. This is quite a departure from driving something like the Prius, which practically shouts "LOOK AT ME!!! I'M AN ECO-GEEK!!!" or "OUTTA MY WAY!!! I'M HEADING TO A TREKKIE CONVENTION!!", provoking stares, swiveling heads, finger pointing, lewd hand gestures, etc... For many people, the Accord Hybrid's invisibility is a GOOD thing. Regardless of how exciting it looks (or doesn't), it's quite a pleasure to drive. How many other 5-passenger, normal looking cars do you know of that can zing from 0 RPM to 60mph in right around 7 seconds? And what's more impressive is that this Accord does it with very little drama - the Accord's gas V6 is already one of the world's best V6s on the road, and obviously having the instant services of up to an additional 100lb-ft of peak torque on tap only helps. This car is not astonishingly quicker than a normal Accord V6, and unfortunately we were unable to run any side by side comparisons, but it certainly has more zest overall, even with taller ratios in the automatic gearbox.
Since Honda's IMA technology does not permit the vehicle to run exclusively under electric power, it is often categorized as a "mild" hybrid system. This label doesn't always sit well with Honda PR folks, but the Accord Hybrid is probably one of the "mildest" of "mild hybrids" now available.
Much of the time in normal driving the "charge/assist" gauge will show little to no activity and the battery level barely seems to fluctuate. On the other hand, the "ECO" light (which illuminates during cylinder deactivation) cycles rather frequently. Contrast this IMA activity to the Civic Hybrid, whose IMA-related dashboard updates flash with a frequency rivaled only by a video game. Also, the Civic Hybrid's state of battery charge is much more dynamic than the Accord Hybrid's. This is most likely because the electric motor assist of the Civic Hybrid's IMA system contributes a larger proportion of the vehicle's propulsion than the Accord Hybrid's.
The Accord's IMA system takes a path to efficiency that seems to be geared more towards preserving kinetic energy and enabling the VCM to operate as much as possible. For example, take the case where you are cruising along on the freeway and you have to brake lightly for a merging car. While at a steady cruising speed (so long as it's below approximately 82mph), the engine will most likely be engaging VCM's 3-cylinder mode. Now when you tap the brakes to slow for the merging vehicle, the IMA system will use its regenerative braking mode to "make a deposit" into your "energy account" (battery pack). Once you're clear of the impediment, you can gently resume your speed and if you're easy on the throttle the IMA will "withdraw" the stored energy from your "energy account", applying electrical assist to help resume your original speed while (hopefully) maintaining VCM's 3-cylinder mode. The idea is to minimize the impact on fuel economy of such interruptions. The actual impact of such an incident may seem insignificant, but considering how many times you have to change your speed on a typical road trip, the net savings could be quite significant.
The Accord IMA's system is 95.2% efficient at generating electricity from braking and is able to convert the stored electrical energy back to motive energy at an efficiency of 97.5%, so in theory, every time you're forced to relinquish some of that hard-earned kinetic energy, you're potentially getting a 92.8% rebate on the energy that would have otherwise been disippated as heat.
Even at a steady state cruising speed, you will see the IMA and VCM systems working in concert to maximize efficiency. As the road changes elevation and even with minor variations in wind conditions, the load on the drivetrain will fluctuate. As the load demands increase, the IMA system will attempt to serve these increased demands to maintain 3-cylinder operation for as long as possible. For most load fluctuations, the IMA assist is adequate, but in more extreme cases, the VCM will instantly and transparently shift to 6-cylinder mode until the load demands settle back to a state allowing for the more efficient 3-cylinder mode of operation. Again, this may seem like a minor contribution, but the net effect is fairly significant.
Obviously in extreme cases, such as when you romp the throttle, all eighteen or so bars of "assist" will illuminate and maximum available thrust will immediately be delivered to the front tires. But unless you're ripping down a dragstrip, you will rarely leave the hammer down for even as long as 10 seconds (you're guaranteed supralegal speeds if you DO). As such, you very likely won't see the the battery level dip at all during such a romp. Even after a full afternoon of repeated 0-60 runs we only saw the level dip down one notch to three bars of charge. The "normal" charge state of the battery remained on 4 bars for most of the time we had the car, though on one extended tenderfooted drive I managed to get it to register 5 bars (which may or may not have been "full" - it appeared there was space for one more bar on the battery gauge, but we never saw it illuminated)
While driving the car, you cannot feel or hear the IMA or VCM systems as they operate. The only real indication is the multi-function display on the gauge cluster. The VCM is very difficult to detect - more difficult to detect than the VCM on the '05 Odyssey, which is itself very difficult to detect. For a while, I was convinced that I could detect the Accord's VCM operation, but in "blind tests" I turned out to be guessing wrong more often than correctly. So in short, the impact on normal driving is virtually nil.
Due to scheduling constraints surrounding our road test, unfortunately we were unable to carry out any sort of "scientific" testing of the Accord Hybrid's fuel economy performance. The best we can do is provide a few scenarios and data points. Our first drive in the car was about 60 miles and involved a good 40 miles of torturous stop and go Friday afternoon Atlanta traffic. The trip computer reported an average of about 23.5mpg. I later made another trip of similar length, this time in much more favorable traffic conditions and observed a little over 34mpg. The roads were a mixture of 2 lane country highway, freeway, and about 10 miles of surface streets. During our 0-60 testing and photography sessions, we saw the trip computer briefly plunge below 17mpg.
Continue to the next page to view the first published dyno tests of the '05 Accord Hybrid.
2005 Honda Accord Hybrid Dyno Test
Test Date: December 21, 2004
Peak Power@RPM: 210hp@6400 RPM
Peak Torque@RPM 195.8 lb-ft@5000 RPM
Front Tire Pressure (Cold): 32 psi
Odometer reading: 4445 miles
Ambient Temp: 69° F
Relative Humidity: 30%
SAE Corr. Factor: 1.01
2005 Honda Accord Hybrid
Test Date: 17-22 December, 2004
MSRP $30505 (incl. $515 dest.)
Price as Tested $32505 (incl. $515 dest.)
Options on Test Car Voice-activated Navigation System
Pros
# Superb Power
# Virtually transparent operation of IMA and VCM
# Great highway cruiser, yet still game for the twisties
# Not an attention getter
# Roomy, comfortable interior
# Big orange cable leading to the flux capacitor
Cons
# If you're seeking recognition of your social conscience, you'll probably go unnoticed in this Hybrid.
# Degraded directional stability in crosswinds
# Startlingly quick - better watch the speedometer!
# Utterly unconvincing "wood-look" interior trim
# No manual transmission offered
# Audio system needs an input jack for your MP3 player
# MP3/WMA playback should be standard
Right around this time last year Honda casually announced to the world that they would be delivering the world's first hybrid gas-electric V6-powered vehicle. Big deal, right? At the time Honda already had two other hybrid models available in Honda showrooms, the second generation Toyota Prius seemed to be succeeding the Hummer H2 as the hot ride in Hollywood, and Ford's Escape Hybrid was already getting plenty of press (though they've only recently become available at the retail level). Heck, shortly afterwards, even Chevy announced they would be delivering a "hybrid" pickup truck (though calling it a hybrid is really stretching things a bit - all it really amounts to is a big generator, a battery pack, and an "idle stop" feature. There is no electric assist of any sort to aid in propelling the Chevy Silverado Hybrid.)
So what is the big deal about a Honda Accord Hybrid? Well, after driving one for nearly a week, I can tell you not much. I mean, jump in, put the key in the ignition, twist it to life, and besides a curious lack of the signature chirring sound of a standard Honda starter motor (and a slight but noticeable pause), it's pretty much business as usual. See, this is one of the few clues that there's something different - since the engine's flywheel now also functions as a motor/generator, the typical starter motor suddenly becomes obsolete. But then you put it into Drive and immediately forget that there's anything different about this car. Well, almost. Once the car is fully warmed up you'll also notice that the engine shuts down as you slow to a stop. This is the idle stop function, said to account for a full 25% of the 8mpg improvement in the EPA City cycle vs the standard Accord V6. Okay, so the idle stop does make the driving experience a little unique, but it works so well, it's not intrusive in any way. Otherwise, unless you pay careful attention to the activities of a small bargraph display situated beneath the odometer, all you'll notice is that you're behind the wheel of a supremely refined and rather quick automobile. Honda has largely bypassed the whole videogame driving experience of Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive (complete with realistic "auxiliary engine room" sound effects), which may help this hybrid find its way into the garages of more traditionalists and those who don't really care to draw attention to the fact that they're driving a Hybrid.
Honda says the Hybrid is a half second quicker to 60mph than a standard Accord V6, and after driving it that figure seems reasonable. In some casual testing with a Race Technology AP-22 (unfortunately we didn't have time to use our normal dragstrip for full testing) we recorded 0-60mph times averaging (2-way) right at 7.0 seconds, which is actually a half second quicker than Honda's own claims, but they're generally pretty conservative. This car jumps out of the hole smartly, smoothly, and almost silently (except in some traction situations, when the tires briefly scream in protest). It's clear that the transmission logic has been programmed to deliver supreme refinement as opposed to all out performance. Computer controlled upshifts occur several hundred rpm shy of the redline, and there is certainly some computer management of the ignition timing and throttle position to deliver consistently smooth shifts. Honda claims that this transmission actually cuts shift to one-third the time required by the standard Accord V6 transmission. This was made possible by a new "high-response" torque converter, which is very compact in design. The J30 sounds great all the while, yet never really raises its voice above a muted growl.
While standing start acceleration is quite brisk, this car also performs very well in overtaking situations. The transmission responds quickly and the assist from the IMA system (with up to 100lb-ft of peak assist on tap at 840rpm) provides instant effect, slingshotting the car around slower traffic with little effort.
From a chassis standpoint, the Accord Hybrid again provides a very similar experience to the EX V6. It runs slightly larger (215/60-16 vs 205/60-16) tires, yet the expected benefits of the larger contact patch are mostly offset by the extra 120lbs the Hybrid Accord carries. So that means it has a reasonable amount of cornering grip, but it's not going to be setting any lap records. The suspension tuning of the Accord Hybrid provides a pretty nice balance between ride comfort, responsiveness, and poise, but this car is not a sport sedan. It's a very comfortable and relaxed highway cruiser, yet it's playful and nimble enough to make for enjoyable backroad ventures at a moderately brisk pace. It's been quite a while since the last time I drove a standard Accord V6, but for some reason the Hybrid seems to be just a little bit stiffer and more composed, particularly with respect to the rear damping. The brakes are responsive and while there is some regenerative activity from the IMA system, the overall feel and operation remains pretty normal overall. The last Accord V6 I drove had overly grabby brakes - these were much better in that sense.
Perhaps the most noticeable difference between the standard Accord's chassis and the Hybrid's is the fitment of the EPS (Electric Power Steering) system. It's pretty nicely weighted, but like most EPS systems, it's a little numb in feel. This system is also a little different than other Honda EPS implementations (Civic Si, S2000, and NSX) in that the power assist continues to function even when the motor has shut itself off.
In order to maintain the Accord's nearly invisible profile, the bodywork of the Accord Hybrid scarcely departs from the standard Accord. Unique (and, if you ask me, rather homely) 16" alloy wheels and a decklid lip spoiler are probably the quickest way to spot the Hybrid, though the decklid spoiler (or a very similar one) is available as a dealer-installed accessory for any of the other Accord models. So much for distinction... There are a few other subtle clues, like a "black chrome-style" grille finish and a unique rooftop AM/FM/XM radio antenna, but only the (hard core) Accord cognoscenti would even notice. Honda credits the lip spoiler and (more aerodynamic) wheel design for improving the Cd to 0.29 (from 0.30), which benefits the fuel economy as well as reducing wind related noise. We noticed that the Accord cruises with very little wind noise or turbulence in normal circumstances, but if you encounter strong or gusty crosswinds, the car gets pushed around a bit too much and requires a lot of corrective steering action. This is an issue with the standard Accord as well - I was hopeful that the aero tweaks might have fixed it, but unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case.
One of the things I noticed while we had the Accord Hybrid was that NOBODY ELSE will notice that it's any different from a normal Accord. This is quite a departure from driving something like the Prius, which practically shouts "LOOK AT ME!!! I'M AN ECO-GEEK!!!" or "OUTTA MY WAY!!! I'M HEADING TO A TREKKIE CONVENTION!!", provoking stares, swiveling heads, finger pointing, lewd hand gestures, etc... For many people, the Accord Hybrid's invisibility is a GOOD thing. Regardless of how exciting it looks (or doesn't), it's quite a pleasure to drive. How many other 5-passenger, normal looking cars do you know of that can zing from 0 RPM to 60mph in right around 7 seconds? And what's more impressive is that this Accord does it with very little drama - the Accord's gas V6 is already one of the world's best V6s on the road, and obviously having the instant services of up to an additional 100lb-ft of peak torque on tap only helps. This car is not astonishingly quicker than a normal Accord V6, and unfortunately we were unable to run any side by side comparisons, but it certainly has more zest overall, even with taller ratios in the automatic gearbox.
Since Honda's IMA technology does not permit the vehicle to run exclusively under electric power, it is often categorized as a "mild" hybrid system. This label doesn't always sit well with Honda PR folks, but the Accord Hybrid is probably one of the "mildest" of "mild hybrids" now available.
Much of the time in normal driving the "charge/assist" gauge will show little to no activity and the battery level barely seems to fluctuate. On the other hand, the "ECO" light (which illuminates during cylinder deactivation) cycles rather frequently. Contrast this IMA activity to the Civic Hybrid, whose IMA-related dashboard updates flash with a frequency rivaled only by a video game. Also, the Civic Hybrid's state of battery charge is much more dynamic than the Accord Hybrid's. This is most likely because the electric motor assist of the Civic Hybrid's IMA system contributes a larger proportion of the vehicle's propulsion than the Accord Hybrid's.
The Accord's IMA system takes a path to efficiency that seems to be geared more towards preserving kinetic energy and enabling the VCM to operate as much as possible. For example, take the case where you are cruising along on the freeway and you have to brake lightly for a merging car. While at a steady cruising speed (so long as it's below approximately 82mph), the engine will most likely be engaging VCM's 3-cylinder mode. Now when you tap the brakes to slow for the merging vehicle, the IMA system will use its regenerative braking mode to "make a deposit" into your "energy account" (battery pack). Once you're clear of the impediment, you can gently resume your speed and if you're easy on the throttle the IMA will "withdraw" the stored energy from your "energy account", applying electrical assist to help resume your original speed while (hopefully) maintaining VCM's 3-cylinder mode. The idea is to minimize the impact on fuel economy of such interruptions. The actual impact of such an incident may seem insignificant, but considering how many times you have to change your speed on a typical road trip, the net savings could be quite significant.
The Accord IMA's system is 95.2% efficient at generating electricity from braking and is able to convert the stored electrical energy back to motive energy at an efficiency of 97.5%, so in theory, every time you're forced to relinquish some of that hard-earned kinetic energy, you're potentially getting a 92.8% rebate on the energy that would have otherwise been disippated as heat.
Even at a steady state cruising speed, you will see the IMA and VCM systems working in concert to maximize efficiency. As the road changes elevation and even with minor variations in wind conditions, the load on the drivetrain will fluctuate. As the load demands increase, the IMA system will attempt to serve these increased demands to maintain 3-cylinder operation for as long as possible. For most load fluctuations, the IMA assist is adequate, but in more extreme cases, the VCM will instantly and transparently shift to 6-cylinder mode until the load demands settle back to a state allowing for the more efficient 3-cylinder mode of operation. Again, this may seem like a minor contribution, but the net effect is fairly significant.
Obviously in extreme cases, such as when you romp the throttle, all eighteen or so bars of "assist" will illuminate and maximum available thrust will immediately be delivered to the front tires. But unless you're ripping down a dragstrip, you will rarely leave the hammer down for even as long as 10 seconds (you're guaranteed supralegal speeds if you DO). As such, you very likely won't see the the battery level dip at all during such a romp. Even after a full afternoon of repeated 0-60 runs we only saw the level dip down one notch to three bars of charge. The "normal" charge state of the battery remained on 4 bars for most of the time we had the car, though on one extended tenderfooted drive I managed to get it to register 5 bars (which may or may not have been "full" - it appeared there was space for one more bar on the battery gauge, but we never saw it illuminated)
While driving the car, you cannot feel or hear the IMA or VCM systems as they operate. The only real indication is the multi-function display on the gauge cluster. The VCM is very difficult to detect - more difficult to detect than the VCM on the '05 Odyssey, which is itself very difficult to detect. For a while, I was convinced that I could detect the Accord's VCM operation, but in "blind tests" I turned out to be guessing wrong more often than correctly. So in short, the impact on normal driving is virtually nil.
Due to scheduling constraints surrounding our road test, unfortunately we were unable to carry out any sort of "scientific" testing of the Accord Hybrid's fuel economy performance. The best we can do is provide a few scenarios and data points. Our first drive in the car was about 60 miles and involved a good 40 miles of torturous stop and go Friday afternoon Atlanta traffic. The trip computer reported an average of about 23.5mpg. I later made another trip of similar length, this time in much more favorable traffic conditions and observed a little over 34mpg. The roads were a mixture of 2 lane country highway, freeway, and about 10 miles of surface streets. During our 0-60 testing and photography sessions, we saw the trip computer briefly plunge below 17mpg.
Continue to the next page to view the first published dyno tests of the '05 Accord Hybrid.
2005 Honda Accord Hybrid Dyno Test
Test Date: December 21, 2004
Peak Power@RPM: 210hp@6400 RPM
Peak Torque@RPM 195.8 lb-ft@5000 RPM
Front Tire Pressure (Cold): 32 psi
Odometer reading: 4445 miles
Ambient Temp: 69° F
Relative Humidity: 30%
SAE Corr. Factor: 1.01
2005 Honda Accord Hybrid
Test Date: 17-22 December, 2004
MSRP $30505 (incl. $515 dest.)
Price as Tested $32505 (incl. $515 dest.)
Options on Test Car Voice-activated Navigation System
Pros
# Superb Power
# Virtually transparent operation of IMA and VCM
# Great highway cruiser, yet still game for the twisties
# Not an attention getter
# Roomy, comfortable interior
# Big orange cable leading to the flux capacitor
Cons
# If you're seeking recognition of your social conscience, you'll probably go unnoticed in this Hybrid.
# Degraded directional stability in crosswinds
# Startlingly quick - better watch the speedometer!
# Utterly unconvincing "wood-look" interior trim
# No manual transmission offered
# Audio system needs an input jack for your MP3 player
# MP3/WMA playback should be standard
#558
Senior Moderator
Not bad:
![](http://sohc.vtec.net//article_files/311751/05acc_ima_dyno01.jpg)