StreetKA

iTrader: (8)

this looks much worse than our 2nd gen CL/TL tranny problems.

VQPower37

^ IMO what can u expect with a chinese tranny

05TLdcc

This really sucks, i hope ford fixes it soon.

I was really looking at a Boss 302 for my next car... now i might wait until the trannies are fixed.

pttl

The most disturbing thing is that Ford is seemingly reluctant to admit the problem and offer a permanent fix. I mean, Getrag has been around for a while (1935), and since Terry says, from his Ford people, that Getrag believes it is not a design issue...that leaves material or assembly problems...right?

Doesn't Ford have the ability to say to the Chinese mfg plant and move the manufacturing of the tranny to another facility?

S A CHO

Just did a quick search about rough shifting on the Camaro - First result in Google: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140557

There were many more threads on the topic too. That guy says "Dreaded second gear grind".

Another from Camaro5: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3100021

"Looks like transmission problems are not just on the Camaro"

Sounds like a common issue there too, and I believe it's a Mexican made Tremec in those cars.

The reason that Mustang thread is so huge is that when anybody posts a rough shifting thread in any 2011 section (V6 or V8) it gets merged into that thread. Merge all the Camaro rough shifting threads and you'd have a monster too.

I'm not trying to defend Ford here, it's obvious there's an issue. I'm just saying the issue might be blown out of proportion. There was a thread on the Mustang forum about "Who likes the way their manual transmission shifts?" The number of people that liked it doubled the people that didn't.

Regardless, Ford NEEDS to step up here and fix these peoples' cars.

05TLdcc

they probably have some sort of long/short term contract with the facility and if they bailed it would cost them $$$$

CocheseUGA

Ford needs to tell the Chinese to get the lead out.

Hapa DC5

fsttyms1

Just like Honda was reluctant to admit and fix the problem with the 5 speed trans huh. It happens.


Im not defending ford or the Chinese plant but many seem to be pretty quick to say its them and not the getrag design because they "believe" its not a design issue. It could be just a faulty design of one part or a manufacturing issue of just one part, or a tolerance issue from the design stage. Blaming the Chinese at this point isnt right

Bearcat94

Google Ford Explorer wtih Firestone Tires.



Oh, btw, all the left over Explorers with the Firestone tires that nobody here would touch with a 10-foot pole? Yeah, Ford shipped them to Brazil and sold them as if nothing ever happened.


Ford is massive corporation and will lie, cheat and steal from the public if they figure that's the way to spend the least amount of money; just like any other major corporation will.

teranfon

Don't know. The basic design is supposed to be fine. It may be a question of particular part tolerance or mounting issues. Hell, it could even be something as simple as fluid. It's also unlikely that where the transmission is manufactured has anything to do with it's performance. Keep in mind that components such as these are manufactured by computer controlled tolerances and robotics, and actual human involvement is minimal. The materials themselves are most likely also cast elsewhere, with only assembly being involved in China. Where assembly takes place often has nothing to do with quality or the likelihood of potential problems.

For what's it worth, the remark about the entire car being assembled in America, sans transmission, isn't exactly true. Manufacturers these days, from Ford to Ferrari, are merely designers and assemblers. They build cars assembled from parts supplied by outside vendors. Sensors, engine components, electrical, wiring harnesses, frames (yes, frames) are often manufactured by other suppliers and shipped to the manufacturer. These suppliers are in Brazil, China, Mexico, Canada, Japan, the US, and many other places. You can bet a number of the components used for the Mustang have been supplied by offshore vendors, as is the case for any domestic or foreign auto manufacturer. This has been going on for years, even decades.

I hope Ford finds a solution. Keep in mind that the majority of those with the 82 never experience a problem. Personally, I still think it may be something so small as a tolerance issue or the need for a slight re-design of a simple component.





Terry

pttl

I know it happens. I replaced a tranny in my 2G TL too.
It's just a screaming shame for it to be happening at this point in time. Ford - the NON bailout car company - trying to build it's rep again, making great cars across the board...allowing this to go on. It would be nice if they were to show some good will.

Ok...blame Getrag/Ford/China...who cares? It's ultimately Ford's problem and it will ultimately be Ford who pays for it interms of a - once again - damaged reputation. Plus...it takes another otherwise great car out of contention for many people. Would you buy another car with a known transmission flaw, and the car maker knowingly ignoring the issue?

teranfon

I agree.

I've seen firsthand some manufacturing plants that supply parts to the auto industry. Some in NA, some offshore. In each instance it's been a totally modern plant with human assembly kept to a minimum. Raw material and cast parts are shipped in, with computers doing the final machining, followed by robotic assembly. It's been happening far longer than people realize.






Terry

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

but they do know how to build transmissions though, look at the 6-speed in the 3rd gen Supra


what i am really woundering though, is if Ford tried to specify a tranny that was too light duty to try and save weight (and costs)
and where i am coming from on that part is Ford with the Firestone tires; with Firestone basically just supplying Ford with the tires they wanted for the price they where willing to pay for them (then ford also running them under inflated did not help matters either)

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

you missed my point entirely.

we are all aware that every car company, whether it be domestic or import has quality issues at some point.

what I was pointing out is the irony of american companies shoving the whole "buy/support American products bc they are made in the good ol USA" down our throats. when they sub tranny work to china to boost profits.

teranfon

If memory serves me correctly, I believe Getrag has been around since 1935. As for the transmission being too light, I doubt it. Transmissions are basically designed to handle a specific torque load, and the 82 is more than adequate. I'm sure a solution will be found, but as usual it takes time. It's often difficult for any manufacturer to find a solution to a problem that hasn't manifested itself entirely across a product range.





Terry

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

and our/honda's 5-speed auto was designed for a specific torque, and weight rating also, and look at how many of them have gone out
it could also be shock loading causing the issues too, while the constant torque rating is still within the "specs" of being able to handle those engine's torque


another example of "glass" trannies, look at like the first two years the subaru WRX was here in the US, quite a few broken ones, BUT not too many of them where on completely stock cars though, normally they where on cars that had been lightly modifield some, with a little more aggresive driver, and they broke because they could not handle the additional power, but mainly the additional shock loading introduced into them from more aggressive driving
basically what i am saying is that it could very well be the same type of situation, but a little worse, cause btw it sounds is that it is happening on stock motors (with it happening less on the V6's , probably mainly due to the reduced power it produces)

teranfon

Again, I doubt it. I'm not entirely familiar with the reasons behind the Honda/Acura transmission failures, but it is with the automatic transmissions. The 82s, don't seem to be failing either, but more of a shifting related problem. And I doubt your argument of it happening less on V6 cars is because of the lower torque the engine produces. Instead it's most likely due to configurations of the cars themselves: far more GT's will be equipped with manuals that automatics, and far more V6s will be equipped with automatics that manuals. Because of this, the reported failure rate will be far greater with GT owners than V6 owners.






Terry

Brandon24pdx

If you mean the 4th gen Supra (mid to late 90's) those used, if I recall, a special German built Getrag called the V160/233. A virtually indestructible transmission.

black label

He tried 4th to 3rd in the second video, same result, lots of grinding.

fsttyms1

HP and TQ werent the issue with the honda trans. They could handle far more power. It woulndt have mattered if our motors made 100 hp or 450 hp they still would have failed. It was the shifting thru and out of 3rd that was the problem and it caused too much heat. Autos are far different than the manuals that ford is having the issues with. Watching the vid it looked like a syncro issue. Odds are there are more V8s with the manual than the V6.

fsttyms1

So what, in this point in time nothing is supposed to fail? How many had issues with the Toyota gas pedal issue. How many still buy them???? IT HAPPENS.

Its kinda hard to lay blame on whats the cause when they are probably working on the fix for it. Dealers arent the people that make the decision, the manufacturer is. If there isnt a known fix the dealer cant do any thing about it. I dont think they are ignoring the issue, Ford doesnt want this to go on, but they have to figure out what the issue is first before they can address how to solve it. People like you jumping on the "oh i cant believe they arent doing anything" band wagon arent helping. Would i buy the car? Most likely if i was looking for one. Im sure they will solve the issue in due time.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

whatever generation it is..... but yes the mid to late 90's one with the twin turbo's

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

All of you bringing up Acura tranny issues, I bet they are for automatic not manuals like this mustang. Honda manuals are great. If you buy American sadly it means you will have either a Chinese or Mexican built tranny. What do you expect, we have to make our cars cheaper than European and Japanese to compete, yet our workers want highest pay. It only translates to one thing, outsourcing the labor.

fsttyms1

But you are failing to see the point. The point was was it doesnt matter if its Made in the US, Japan or China. Manufacturing and or design issues can happen,and at this point there is no proof or need to just blame it on being Chinese made!

charliemike

If this were an isolated incident that'd be one thing but if you take Chinese manufacturing as a whole ... It's entirely indicative of a huge problem there.

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

That stinks on the new transmissions. All this after reading that Ford was the ONLY US car builder that did not have a car on the worst reliable list.

At least my Honda has more parts built in the US that a Ford Escape.

S A CHO

I can't explain how much Ford NEEDS to do something here. It kind of aggrivates me that they haven't atleast come out and acknowledged there is an issue and are working on a solution. Dealers are all in the dark - they have no idea what's going on...

People with 2012's on order are shitting bricks and cancelling orders left and right...

Can they NOT see this is having an impact on business?

pttl

Things fail all the time...I GET THAT. At this "point in time" for FORD....who is trying their best to re-establish themselves as an American car company leader.




People like me....maybe people like me should say...that's ok boys, maybe you'll get it right for the 50th anniversary edition.

pttl

THIS x 100,000,000,000

Trust is a huge issue here and Ford is F***ing up big time.

silver3.5

When you go for cheap labor, you get cheap results.

Bearcat94

Well, except for that pesky popping out of 3rd gear issue across multitudes of Honda and Acura manuals that may eventually end up in another class-action transmission lawsuit. Yeah, except for that, they're great.



Just American? Really? Look up "Jatco" and "Jatco Mexico".

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

meh, my 6 speed cuts through 3rd like butter...

also, the people who are/did have issues, im sure it wasnt a result of honda sourcing the labor out to another country to save $$$.
(correct me if im wrong but i think honda has Tranny plants here in the states)

but really, what do i know.

the actual cause hasnt presented itself yet, and still may not have anything to do with assembly...

Bearcat94

I think that is exactly the point. It doesn't matter if you're sourcing from Mexico, the US, Japan or China .... shit happens.

No one even knows what the problem is, so it is FAR too early to say, "Well, if they hadn't tried to get cheap by manufacturing in China .... ". Could've happened anywhere.

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

right but if quality control is a problem in china, and not here. the problem would not have not occurred.

now if its a design flaw... you're right, it wouldnt matter...

Carraway

That video bothers me, too, but I cringe at both the condition of the transmission and what he's doing to it. Anyone have any leads to data on how many transmissions are going bad?

The internet is great to find information on problems such as this, but at the same time, you may be led to believe that no Honda auto transmission lasts more than seven years, all Infiniti Gs have mass oil consuming engines and every BMW will spend more time at the dealer than in an owner's driveway.

Still, though, as a potential buyer thinking about maybe, just maybe, buying a Ford after driving Hondas, Nissans and Toyotas for a couple of decades, hearing about this is disconcerting.

Bearcat94

^^

Good point, but, FYI, that one about the BMW's is actually true.

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

Its more than just that, I have a neighbor of mine that used to work at the ford plant here in Illinois, he says the only thing that is made in America is the chassis, alot of the parts come from mexico, china, and canada.

S A CHO

To show you what a proper MT-82 shifts like I took this short clip of 1st through 5th shifting at around 2500rpm going up to about 100km/h (60mph).

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3on9mNdTtyw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I hope and pray it stays this way for a long long time.

pttl

Nice video. That's actually a good idea to take a vid of the car while it is working properly. I hope yours lasts the entire time you own the car.