Tsx6363

that car looks retarded, it's like a G35 bred with a TC and got kickedi n the grill by a cadillac =p

biker

SeCsTaC

It should be coming out in 2008. I don't know why some of you are saying 2009, as that would make it a 6 YEAR RUN. Remember the TSX came out in 2003 as a 2004 model. I remember seeing them on the lots with the 2nd generation 3.2TLs. The 3rd gen TL debuted 1 year after the TSX in 2004.

It's definately due for a redesign in 2008.

Mokos23

The 3rd gen TL debuted in Fall 2003 because when I first looking at TSX's they had the 3rd gen TL's in the showroom back in Nov. 2003, which I originally wanted to look at first.

dom

04, 05, 06, 07, 08 is a 5 year run, not 6. And the 04 TL came out in the fall of 03. About 4 or 5 months after the TSX's March 03 launch.

Dan Martin

I wonder if the euro accord will come out before the TSX again...

TL CHROMETIDE

You've seen the next generation TSX?

SeCsTaC

Well I consider 2003 to be one of the TSXs selling year. They should launch it a year earlier than the TL though to keep new products rolling.

dom

I see your point, but its still not considered a selling year.

I guessed we'll see an all new TSX at Detroit in 08 with a launch in the spring as a 09 with the new TL following in the fall, just like last time. Just my and best guess.

GreenMonster

Dom, they probaby want to release the accord first... and not have the TSX steal any of it's thunder... so that would also fit in with your "guess"

Aren't the TL and TSX due for FMC's (full model change) at the same time ?? That would point to a 08 release as an 09 model...

Vtec.net still says 2007 (as My08?): http://vtec.net/modelmatrix/

dom

True.

I think they'll both be 09's. The TL was just refreshed so you know it will remain unchanged for 08.

VTEC has been wrong before.

But I don't think we'll have to wait til next year to see the new TSX. We'll probably get a pretty good idea of what it may look like when the Euro Accord debuts sometime this year, I presume.

biker

What model has gone more than 2 MYs after an MMC?

TL CHROMETIDE

Any more news?

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Here's to hoping again for a TSX-S with 240hp and AWD

TL CHROMETIDE

I hope it'll be at least 280hp or enough to keep up with an Evo because I'm playing 1up with my friend who just got one. And please release it this year!

dom

Integra got an MMC in 98, (I bought one) and was sold unchanged until 01. Its not as if Honda has some schedule they stick to. The last gen Integra, RL and RSX were sold for alot more than 4 years.

dom

You better start looking elsewhere for your next car.

biker

But typically most models only go 2 MYs after an MMC (the luxury lines deviate from this somewhat)

dom

Biker, we should bet on this. Any ideas on what could be at stake?

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

it won't be as much as what the base TL or TL-S offers. it would infringe on that products territory and acura wouldn't do that. Audi can pull it off, but Acura won't, they're too conservative, besides, they've lost the sport market a long time ago IMO

dom

All they have to do is ensure the next gen TL has an optional 300+ HP variant and they can offer 280 in the TSX.

Having said that, the next TSX will not get 280, nor does it need it. 240-250 would be perfect IMO.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

With that much power in both vehicles would you assume that both would be V6 motors then? if that's the case, they would try to use the same motor to save cost on the engine development and simply offer a highly tuned version that has the 300+ hp in the TL, and a detuned version in the TSX.

So even if they did offer a TL with 300+hp, i think they'd still stick to about 240-250hp as the target range in the TSX. I just don't get why they wouldn't want to use the RDX motor in the TSX. It has everything to gain a huge competitive edge. That could in a sense be the TSX-S. And the base TSX could be left alone as it stands now.

dom

I'd bet my left testi they could easily get 280 out of the Turbo 2.3. But I agree that the Turbo is a natural fit for the TSX.

But I'd still rather see a 3.0L or even smaller high revving V6 with 250/220 lb-ft.

biker

I have a feeling all of these lofty HP levels will not happen. The days of large HP jumps with new models are numbered. Some advances have been made to keep emissions and millage reasonable with high HP output but I think those advances are going to hit a wall pretty soon. There are only so many BTUs in a gal of fuel and the efficiency of the internal combustion engine is limited. Combine that with Honda's image as a green car maker and I don't foresee them trying to pass any other maker in HP.

Looking at the current entry level cars in the TSX category (A4 2.0, 328, IS250) most are in the low 200HP range. There's no reason for Honda to offer any more than 220. Tuning the RDX drivetrain for just about any HP level should be simple enough. Heck they could probably add 10 HP per year for the whole model run just with a firmware upgrade.

But in the real long run I see a return of the 70s where due to fuel availability and pollution HP numbers will stay flat or start going down. All of the current main stream mid sized sedans are approaching the point where they can't make much more HP due to the limits of FWD. So the Camcords of tomorrow are not going to go much above the current HP levels. Those limits can be extended a bit by going AWD (like the whole Acura line will go) but even with such an addition there'll be some HP limit in the near future.

cp3117

They should easily get that out of the 2.3T but will need SH-AWD next in order to handle it. Audi gets those numbers out of their S3 and its the same 2.0T engine as in the jetta (with obvious factory upgrades to the turbo,injectors etc). A simple chip and minor exhaust changes and the S3 gets over 330Hp.

Putting the 2.3T in the TSX would be a smart move because they could do like VW/Audi does and offer TSX-S or a base TSX with the same engine but just tuned different and produce possibly 30-50 HP difference between the 2 models and offer SH-AWD to the S model.....This though would be too agressive for honda and only has the possibility of occuring while we dream at night.

Honda + choice to the consumer....is never an option it seems at HMC

Fibonacci

Since Mazda is already getting similar power w/ same displacement, this is hardly an outrageous bet.

And I agree that NA engine is preferable to a turbo - but the RDX engine will most likely be what Honda goes with.

GreenMonster

IF they are going to put the turbo 4 into the 08 accord, they at least have to offer that as an option on the next tsx...

biker

Very unlikely - turbo in a pedestrian Honda offering?

dom

Sad but true.

I wouldn't bet my left testi if it was.

I thought I read a Honda exec saying a Turbo for the Accord was a possibility or maybe it was just a rumour. Either way, its probably doubtful. Maybe in the coupe?

GreenMonster

I thought I read the same thing, but can't find it now... I think the rumor was for the coupe... Must have been around the time of the concept coupe unveiling

But it would make more sense to have the turbo in an acura for a pedestrian honda...

quasiactuary

From everything I have read (here and elsewhere) there doesn't seem to be much agreement on when the next generation TSX will be out....late 2007 as MY2008 or 2008 as MY2009.

When do you guys think we will have a better idea? How far in advance would details start leaking out....like if we don't have any more details by April/May does that mean MY2008 is out? When should we start hearing more rumors if it is going to be released in 2007 as a MY2008 (like vtec.net still says in their release matrix)? Is there a better/more reliable source than vtec.net (meaning a source that isn't just guessing based on what they think makes sense)?

I'm in the market for a new car and am willing to wait until this fall if the new TSX will be out, but if it isn't coming until late 2008 I'll go ahead and buy sooner.

biker

I think the April NY show is the end of the car show season so if nothing is announced by then, the new TSX may not appear in MY08. It could just be a case of Honda keeping it under wraps real good. It's very unlikely that Honda could/would keep this a secret until 1-2 months before the intro.

TorontoTL

I don't agree that the TSX doesn't need more than 240-250 hp. The TSX is the size to be competing with the IS from Lexus and the 3 series. It is the ideal size for a sports sedan. If Acura really wants to compete then they should be offering the models with more variations in power and not worry about overlap in hp and features. All the other players do this and they do just fine. Look at Lexus, they have the IS 250 and the 350. Yet this doesn't step on the toes of the GS 350. Infiniti has the G35 and the M35, BMW has a 335 and a 530 and they both do well. I wanted a powerful small sedan and Acura didn't have a model for me so I had to go to Lexus.

biker

The thing is those models (IS, 3 series) differ from the up level models in other ways including the big one - the entry level cars are compacts. Acura basically has 3 mid sizers. So does Infiniti (when the new Q comes out maybe they'll have a full sizer). I have a feeling M sales may suffer now that the G has been upgraded. While the rest of makers have options, Acura has been the take-or-leave-it niche player. I don't see that changing much. And in the volume lower performance model market a 220HP TSX would suffice.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Ok so I just saw an ad for the new Civic SI Sedan with 198hp.

If many speculated that the RSX was possibly cut because the Civic SI coupe was nearly identical in power to the RSX and was treading on it's territory, then what about the civic SI sedan and the TSX? Sure the civic can be considered a compact car and the TSX isnt.

This still makes it appear that Acura would/should up the power in the TSX to about 230-240 in the next model revision.

Or at the least offer the TSX-S with 240 and keep the base TSX the way it is.

derrick

^ TSX vs Civic Si = Acura vs Honda. In Canada, we are so 'brand conscious', it's almost sickening. I'm not sure the same will hold in the US (well, at least for Honda products). I don't know if Canada will have a Civic Si since the CSX is essentially a glorified Civic (formerly named the "EL") -- maybe I missed the announcement in the product line ???

I would like to see the TSX come out with a "Type-S" but if a model upgrade is in the near future, then a Type-S would be out of the question. (Reason: Type-S is just a near end of cycle production car to keep sales up. New car gen = increased sales on its own. We *should* have seen a Type-S in '06 or '07 for Acura's logic for the TL would apply to the TSX ... )

So ... will word of the next gen TSX show up in Tokyo in the fall?

dom

No Si Sedan in Canada since we get the CSX Type S instead.

Texas

I think we are way early on the TSX...I may be wrong but do not think we will see the next TSX and TL tell next year...TSX continues to sell well....

Next year both will move up in HP/Torque, SH etc..Coupe?

I think all we will have to look at this year is the new Accords...Coupe!

deandorsey

The FMC TSX will appear in 07' as on 08 model... TL the following year

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Ahhh, the Acura Logic which you have been fooled by.

The Integra sold the best and it was cut and reintroduced as the RSX which also sold decently but not as well as the integra and was subsequently cut.

I'm not implying the TSX will be cut, but Acura Logic sometimes confuses me.