Acura: TSX News
#521
Race Director
Originally Posted by dom
Who said anything about dumping the 2.4 or 2.5? It will remain as the base engine.
#522
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by biker
And have it as a third engine when the diesel is added? No way.
I seriously doubt any Acura will be using deisel. The only "luxury" brand currently brave enough to offer a deisel in NA is MB, but they have enough of a reputation to back it up. Unless I missed the announcement about Acura using deisels?
#523
Team Owner
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Originally Posted by dom
I seriously doubt any Acura will be using deisel. The only "luxury" brand currently brave enough to offer a deisel in NA is MB, but they have enough of a reputation to back it up. Unless I missed the announcement about Acura using deisels?
biker, I think dom may be right about this point. I don't see Acura getting the diesels as it is not keeping with its increasing attempts to project a more luxury image. No matter what the media and enthusiasts may say, there is still a real stigma attached to diesels in the US and getting "luxury" car buyers to consider a diesel may be much more difficult than one might think.
I do see at least two trim levels for the TSX since that has been one of the biggest complaints about the TSX is that it lack options. A base model with a retuned version of the K24 or a bored out K-series I4 is pretty likely in addition to a Type-S model with the RDX motor tuned for more hp and less torque (i.e. 260 hp and 240 torque instead of the reverse currently on the RDX) and no SH-AWD, initially. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the RDX/RL paddle shifters make it into the next TSX on the AT models.
#524
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by dom
I seriously doubt any Acura will be using deisel. The only "luxury" brand currently brave enough to offer a deisel in NA is MB, but they have enough of a reputation to back it up. Unless I missed the announcement about Acura using deisels?
#525
Race Director
Originally Posted by dom
I seriously doubt any Acura will be using deisel. The only "luxury" brand currently brave enough to offer a deisel in NA is MB, but they have enough of a reputation to back it up. Unless I missed the announcement about Acura using deisels?
#526
6G TLX-S
Originally Posted by biker
I don't' care how much baggage the word diesel has - all those Europeans buying them can't all be wrong. The latest review of the Bluetec E320 CDI basically says forget the E350 - just get the diesel. Acura will use diesels instead of hybrids - it's exactly in the luxury market where it makes sense to offer them. People won't pay the $1000 premium on a $20K Accord but they will on a $30 TSX (on which it actually won't be a premium cause the diesel will probably be cheaper than the SH-AWD turbo I4).
Honda only has a lame 2.2i diesel engine in its stable, and there is no way this will be used in any form in the Acura lineup which stress for performance. Not until Honda has similar diesel engines like the Mercedes 4.2L-V8 or the VW 6L-V12 then we'll see diesel-engine powered Acura cars in NA.
Last edited by Edward'TLS; 01-10-2007 at 05:45 PM.
#527
Race Director
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
The main reason why diesel-engined cars are so popular in Europe is that the petrol (or gasoline in US) price in Europe is many times higher than in North America. Almost all petrol stations in Europe serve diesel fuel, unlike the unpopularity in NA. Diesel cars just don't sell in NA.
Honda only has a lame 2.2i diesel engine in its stable, and there is no way this will be used in any form in the Acura lineup which stress for performance. Not until Honda has similar diesel engines like the Mercedes 4.2L-V8 or the VW 6L-V12 then we'll see diesel-engine powered Acura cars in NA.
Honda only has a lame 2.2i diesel engine in its stable, and there is no way this will be used in any form in the Acura lineup which stress for performance. Not until Honda has similar diesel engines like the Mercedes 4.2L-V8 or the VW 6L-V12 then we'll see diesel-engine powered Acura cars in NA.
What Acura model besides the NSX stresses performance? They are all just about equal to the competition's offerings. There's very little about he TSX that says performance. You are right the 2.2l iCDTi is too small for anything but the TSX - thats' why Honda is developing a V6 diesel. MB is not going to use anything bigger than the 3.2 CDI Bluetec. It will be whored out in everything from the C class, to the ML, R, E class, Grand Cherokee, etc. BMW will do the same with its 3.0L diesel- whore it out across it's lineup (just like in Europe).
VW/Audi is the one that may have more than one diesel - a smaller one for Golf, Jetta, Passat, A4 and a bigger one for A6, Toureg, maybe Passat.
Like I said, it makes much more sense for Honda to use the diesel in the TSX as the "green" alternative drivetrain in the TSX instead of some hybrid setup.
#528
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Originally Posted by biker
Many gas stations in the US have diesel - it's not like it's rare. The only short term issue with diesel at the moment is the slightly higher price due to the changeover to ULSD. The price should settle back to the norm where diesel is about the same as premium.
What Acura model besides the NSX stresses performance? They are all just about equal to the competition's offerings. There's very little about he TSX that says performance. You are right the 2.2l iCDTi is too small for anything but the TSX - thats' why Honda is developing a V6 diesel. MB is not going to use anything bigger than the 3.2 CDI Bluetec. It will be whored out in everything from the C class, to the ML, R, E class, Grand Cherokee, etc. BMW will do the same with its 3.0L diesel- whore it out across it's lineup (just like in Europe).
VW/Audi is the one that may have more than one diesel - a smaller one for Golf, Jetta, Passat, A4 and a bigger one for A6, Toureg, maybe Passat.
Like I said, it makes much more sense for Honda to use the diesel in the TSX as the "green" alternative drivetrain in the TSX instead of some hybrid setup.
What Acura model besides the NSX stresses performance? They are all just about equal to the competition's offerings. There's very little about he TSX that says performance. You are right the 2.2l iCDTi is too small for anything but the TSX - thats' why Honda is developing a V6 diesel. MB is not going to use anything bigger than the 3.2 CDI Bluetec. It will be whored out in everything from the C class, to the ML, R, E class, Grand Cherokee, etc. BMW will do the same with its 3.0L diesel- whore it out across it's lineup (just like in Europe).
VW/Audi is the one that may have more than one diesel - a smaller one for Golf, Jetta, Passat, A4 and a bigger one for A6, Toureg, maybe Passat.
Like I said, it makes much more sense for Honda to use the diesel in the TSX as the "green" alternative drivetrain in the TSX instead of some hybrid setup.
We all know that Acura and Honda are into doing things "different". I see it as much more likely for them to give the Acura brand a diesel as opposed to a hybrid.
#529
Drifting
If there would be a turbo diesel TSX with great performance in future, I would be first in line to get one!
#530
Race Director
Originally Posted by ostrich
If there would be a turbo diesel TSX with great performance in future, I would be first in line to get one!
#531
Diesel can bring a lot, a lot of torque with few liters...love torque...but then comes the FWD issue...I also would like to see a turbo-diesel 4 in the TSX with SH drive..or something with a little more torque so not having to move up to the large TL for torque.....Oh, make mine a coupe please..
America will come around to diesels when the new high pressure rail diesels start to hit here soon...all most Americans know about diesels is the damn the noise and smell from being next to a Ford 250...the new ones will not have these issues...
America will come around to diesels when the new high pressure rail diesels start to hit here soon...all most Americans know about diesels is the damn the noise and smell from being next to a Ford 250...the new ones will not have these issues...
#532
Race Director
Originally Posted by Texas
America will come around to diesels when the new high pressure rail diesels start to hit here soon...
#533
6G TLX-S
Originally Posted by biker
Been here already for years in the form of VW TDI engines and E320CDI.
#534
6G TLX-S
Originally Posted by biker
What Acura model besides the NSX stresses performance? They are all just about equal to the competition's offerings. There's very little about he TSX that says performance. You are right the 2.2l iCDTi is too small for anything but the TSX - thats' why Honda is developing a V6 diesel. MB is not going to use anything bigger than the 3.2 CDI Bluetec. It will be whored out in everything from the C class, to the ML, R, E class, Grand Cherokee, etc. BMW will do the same with its 3.0L diesel- whore it out across it's lineup (just like in Europe).
Performance exists in every class catergory. Almost all Acura models do 0-60mph in < 8 secs and handle well. Acura cars are marketed for performance within their respective class category. On the other hand, most Honda models are slower and not handle as well, and slow hybrid models are offered. Honda did make one serious mistake by offering a high performance hybrid in the current V6 Accord, and it doesn't sell. The trend is that when people buy hybrid cars, they don't want performance. All they want is cheap price and maximum mileage out of every single drop of gas. So the new 4-cylinder hybrid Camry and Prius are selling like hotcakes.
#535
Race Director
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
But they don't sell well in North America. Especially the VW turbo-diesel V10 debuted in the Toureg a couple years ago only lasted for one model year and was dropped the following year.
VW stopped selling the diesel Toureg because of emissions, not because of poor sales.
#536
Race Director
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
. Acura cars are marketed for performance within their respective class category.
#537
6G TLX-S
Originally Posted by biker
Marketed with performance, yes - having performance as the main theme, no. If any model were class leading in performance it would be trumpeted - none are.
TL - 258hp V6 motor, available 18" rims, 6 sec 0-60, best seller in class title year after year.
MDX - 300hp V6 motor, available 19" rims, SH-AWD.
RDX - 240hp turbo motor, available 19" rims, SH-AWD.
RL - 290hp V6 motor, available 18" rims, SH-AWD, slow in straight line but handles very well.
Even thought all these Acura cars aren't class leading in performance, but they will perform just as what Acura has marketed them to be.
#538
Originally Posted by biker
Been here already for years in the form of VW TDI engines and E320CDI.
#540
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The two main reasons why diesel engines have worked in Europe and not here are:
1. Emissions standars, as always, are a lot looser in Europe than in the USA
2. Price of gas as opposed to diesel.
1. Emissions standars, as always, are a lot looser in Europe than in the USA
2. Price of gas as opposed to diesel.
#541
Race Director
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
Even thought all these Acura cars aren't class leading in performance, but they will perform just as what Acura has marketed them to be.
1. Emissions standards, as always, are a lot looser in Europe than in the USA
2. Price of gas as opposed to diesel
Last edited by biker; 01-16-2007 at 08:28 AM.
#542
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I always just have this gut feeling that Honda gives more attention to their own company first and Acura is like their extra credit/other investment and was being neglected only until recently.
The reverse is for Toyota, where they've been putting more emphasis and dedication to their Lexus brand, then their own, and now Scion.
The reverse is for Toyota, where they've been putting more emphasis and dedication to their Lexus brand, then their own, and now Scion.
#543
Race Director
Originally Posted by 04EuroAccordTsx
I always just have this gut feeling that Honda gives more attention to their own company first and Acura is like their extra credit/other investment and was being neglected only until recently.
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#546
Engineer
Originally Posted by biker
That's almost a given.
hopefully with a power boost... then Hondata will get workin on a K-Pro...
i bet Shiv at Vishnu might even take a peek if he sees some potential... He has done a good job with Evo's and STI's why not a TSX with SH-AWD and boost?
#547
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Originally Posted by biker
That's almost a given.
"Mr. Fukui is asked if we should expect to see more turbochargers in the Acura lineup and his response is that there are currently no plans, but they are looking at other ways to enhance Acura's sportiness. He also mentions that turbos are not exclusive to Acura and are being considered for Honda-badged products as well."
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=644813
So that dispels that rumor. So what the heck is the TSX going to get? Personally if they're not going to put the RDX engine in it then I kind of want to see a small V6 in it. Maybe a 3.0L making 230hp and 225tq or something
#548
Engineer
i think the next gen TSX will need at least 240-250 hp as an option in order to compete performance wise... i think a turbo with about 260hp would be idea... SH-AWD as an option... possibly as a TSX Type-S....
#549
Race Director
Originally Posted by SeCsTaC
You would think that wouldn't you?
"Mr. Fukui is asked if we should expect to see more turbochargers in the Acura lineup and his response is that there are currently no plans, but they are looking at other ways to enhance Acura's sportiness. He also mentions that turbos are not exclusive to Acura and are being considered for Honda-badged products as well."
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=644813
So that dispels that rumor. So what the heck is the TSX going to get? Personally if they're not going to put the RDX engine in it then I kind of want to see a small V6 in it. Maybe a 3.0L making 230hp and 225tq or something
"Mr. Fukui is asked if we should expect to see more turbochargers in the Acura lineup and his response is that there are currently no plans, but they are looking at other ways to enhance Acura's sportiness. He also mentions that turbos are not exclusive to Acura and are being considered for Honda-badged products as well."
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=644813
So that dispels that rumor. So what the heck is the TSX going to get? Personally if they're not going to put the RDX engine in it then I kind of want to see a small V6 in it. Maybe a 3.0L making 230hp and 225tq or something
#550
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Originally Posted by biker
This is the same Fukui that has some misleading statements about the RL just months before the launch. It could be that turbo I4 won't make it in the TSX for MY08 but I just don't see much else going in there to boost the power.
#551
Senior Moderator
Should be an interesting Fall, with both the new Accord and TSX coming out with a full model change. We've already seen the accord, so it'll be interesting to see when acura is going to unveil the new tsx...
#552
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by GreenMonster
Should be an interesting Fall, with both the new Accord and TSX coming out with a full model change. We've already seen the accord, so it'll be interesting to see when acura is going to unveil the new tsx...
My money in on Detroit 2008. Like the first gen. With a Spring 08 release as an 09.
My money is also on a 2.5L 4 banger as the base engine and a Type-S with Turbo to follow.
You heard it here first.
#556
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by gavriil
It only makes sense for the TSX to receive the engine from the RDX folks.
Yup, thats my Type-S engine.
I can't see them messing with sucess and pricing the TSX out of reach of most of its current buyers. Doesn't make sense. Hence a base engine remains.
#557
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. Completely agree with the 2 previous statements. I really like the idea of Acura bringing back Type-S. It will prelude Acura into the "sportiness" it wants, but also maintain the lower end of the market segment Demographic.
#559
Race Director
Originally Posted by 04EuroAccordTsx
No boost to power huh? Remember when you said that you would consider a G25 if they made one?
#560
Race Director
Originally Posted by dom
My money in on Detroit 2008. Like the first gen. With a Spring 08 release as an 09.
The thing is, the Accord is coming off the assembly line in 6 mos and very little is known about it either.
How about a Paris intro (9/07) and launch 2 months later?