RJC RSX

Cruel, cruel...

I'm going to merge those contrasting points and come up with my own speculation:

- 280hp
- HPT = High Performance Touring-- performance tires, brembos, stiffer suspension
- Heated seats only
- Moonroof switch(es) on headliner
- LED Guages, like TSX, but in seperate pods like RL
- Bluetooth, XM, dvd audio 5.1
- Leather, simulated wood trim
- Compete against 5 series
- AWD, 75% no, 25% yes

MSRP: 32-33K

STL

Well I hope Acura is smart enough to put memory seats on the 05 TSX!!! And don't believe that 15K number either...that is just Acura's marketing department giving "fuel" to the Acura salesmen.

EmuMessenger

News, news, news!!!

There has to be something new that has leaked this week!

I feel like an addict.

STL

Not a chance in hell! BTW, I don't think you really want a FWD car to be 50/50 balanced (weight wise).

EmuMessenger

I bet we would all settle for 75% to the front wheels and 25% available to the back when slippage is detected.

RJC RSX

Emu, something new did leak out...specs!

285 bhp @ 6600 rpm
262 lbs-ft @ 2500-5000 rpm

STL

All things being equal, going to a wider tire does not increase your contact patch area -- it stays the same. What changes is the shape; a wider tire is going to make the width wider (side to side), but then area less thick front to back. The wider tires would help with handling but would mildly hamper acceleration and braking. Wider isn't always better; it's about finding the right balance.

dmac_RENAMED

hey stl how/where did u find those numbers...maybe we can get more information, cause the wait is killin me

phile

If the engine is 3.4L, those are impressive numbers. Acura is really heating things up.

teo409

where did you get those hp and torque numbers? So, is AWD certainly out of the question now?

RJC RSX

out of my ass ...but one can hope, right?

Alex

WHY ??????????

Why nearly all JDM Honda models (including Civic!) and some Euro Honda models as well has AWD as an option and none on US sold model does not???
Here's few examples:

1) 2000 Avancier V-4 3L V6 215hp AWD
Spec
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...2F4000203.html
Photos
http://members.aol.com/Ayakosst/acco...n.htm#AVANCIER

2) Current Euro / JDM Accord wagon - 2.4L 190hp AWD
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...a%2Findex.html

Both cars are quite big and heavy with I4 2.4L / 3L V6 high output engines

I can hardly imagine how '04 TL with 3.5L 270/280+hp engine will run with FWD setup - would it be easy to FWD drag such a heavy vehicle

Alex

One more example of useless FWD - Comptech Supercharged Acura 3.2CL Type-S

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=107107

Power (mfr's claim): 369 bhp @ 6800 rpm
Torque (mfr's claim): 302 lb-ft @ 5400 rpm
Transmission: 6-speed manual
Curb weight: 3500 lb
Zero to 60 mph: 5.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.2 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 23.6 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph 5.8 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 14.2 sec @ 104 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 176 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.89 g

Not very impressive numbers for 369hp/302 lb-ft vehicle huh

Compare it with M3

http://edmunds.com/new/2003/bmw/m3/1...idenav..8.BMW*

Acceleration (0-60 mph): 5 sec.
Curb Weight: 3415 lbs.
Braking Distance: 112 ft.
Base Number of Cylinders: 6
Base Engine Size: 3.2 liters
Base Engine Type: Inline 6
Horsepower: 333 hp
Max Horsepower: 7900 rpm
Torque: 262 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 4900 rpm
Drive Type: RWD
Turning Circle: 36.1 ft.

Same weight, less torque/hp and still running very fast!

acuraman_RENAMED

dnb

Uh, you did say it leaked out, right?

EmuMessenger

D@mn, once again I fell for someone's joke before reading through to the end of the thread.

RJC RSX

sorry guys, but i'm not the only one making sick jokes. God look at us, we ran out of new info and we can't even speculate any further, so we're making up shit. Oh man something better come out soon!

In the meatime...

Colin

This lines up with what I've heard, however, I am not at liberty to name my sources. Since I don't deal in speculation, I wouldn't check in on this if I wasn't sure. (disclaimer: I am hoping that HPT is a little more than just tires, but I have no confirmation that there is more to it ....yet)

Quote:

-Heated, but no ventilated seats.
-Moonroof switches on the console near steering wheel.

Makes sense, if Acura EVER ventilates the seats, it will be on the RL not TL. Moon roof switches? Who cares where they are? I've never given a second thought to this.

need4spd_RENAMED

Colin,

Thanks for your input.

Just wondering, when are you going to test drive the new TL like you did for the TSX. Enjoyed your videos, on the test drive at the track and in Hawaii, thanks for posting those. Can't wait till you do the same for the 04 TL

Thanks again!

acuraman_RENAMED

Man!! I'm glad I'm going on vacation for a few days. Hopefully when I come back on Monday, there'll be some new "credible" info to talk about....

justinjsw

This thread refuse to die....you guys are unreal.

Sorry I have no info to update or confirm. I do want to clear up a topic that keeps coming up. "AWD"...I know what I said before... that the TL will have an AWD option...but over the past couple of weeks different people have pointed out to me that HPT can't stand for VTM-4...so I spoke to who I needed to speak to and did some additional research on this topic. I will concede that HPT is NOT AWD. Why did I think the new TL will have AWD?... because I was in Torrance HQ awhile ago and I did see something listed as VTM-4/AWD for a GV based platform vehicle. Of course the 04TL is based off the GV <Honda HQ codename platform. And when I saw the different trims available for the TL with a HPT option I just assumed thats what the package was. Blame it on my excitment if you will. I know what I saw so I still say that in the very near future there will be an AWD TL in Acuras inventory. At that time I will say I told you so.

We all know Honda does not have a RWD platform or a V8 power plant in its inventory. Excluding RWD on the S2000/S2200 and NSX of course. Those platforms are exclusive to those cars only. What we also know is that Honda do have IMA and AWD for some of its platforms...mainly AWD in its JDM models. When people say that there is no way in hell that there will be an AWD TL...I ask...why not?

Some have pointed out that if there was an AWD TL it will hurt the sales of the current RL. I say what does it matter the current RL is already dead. Sales of the so called Flagship Acura is in the dumpster. How much more will it hurt? Folks the RL is finished...that car was based off the platform of the long departed Legend...the RL is a dinosaur in the Automotive world. The TL is Acuras bread and butter car. The new RL will be its image car. So point is what is it actually hurting?

Volvo S60, Audi A6, BMW 3Series, Jaguar X-Type, Infiniti G35...what do all this cars have in common? They are all in the same market segment and they all have optional AWD . The new TL will compete in this market...since RWD is not an option...where does that leave Acura?>>>AWD. Again I was wrong when I said HPT stands for AWD and I apologize to everybody on the forum who look to me for concrete info. I need to be more careful next time. But do not be disappointed because we will have this feature sooner than later.

Lastly the TL will not have 285HP.

RJC RSX

could you please give us a better idea of how soon the "very near future" is?

Alex

Justinjsw, thanks for clearing things up!

I can hardly imagine 285hp FWD TL
270hp sounds more reasonable on FWD - after all it still more than G35 sedan and 5-series (except 54X of course ) and most Volvos has

My wild guess that Acura will go after luxery and comfort features - not performance

Same scenario can be found on TSX - it is not the best performer but features list, built quality and The Price makes it a winner (well if you not against FWD entirely)

May be 3.5L will have same VOD option as JDM Inspire - this will add additional weight especially now when petrol quite costy

STL

Justin,
Please spread the word (to your friends at the Torrance HQ) that adding a 2.2L engine to the existing S car makes it a S2200 and therefore that is what it SHOULD be named! Unless they want to totally ignore the S heritage. Sorry for the off-topic rant...

need4spd_RENAMED

Justin,

We all apreciate the research that you have done to clarify these points. While disappointed that the TL will not be innitially offered with an AWD type of package (as I have always loved the Audi's), I had already committed to buying the car on looks, price, build quality and the hopes that it would be as fun to drive as the TSX (I can only hope that it is not grandma's version of the TSX and acura does try to be on the more sport side as I have read).

Also, I am disappointed that it is not 285hp as my dealer told me, but, I will be happy with anything over 260hp to keep up with the Maxima (drove one today, not happy with feel of quality and that damm nose) and other cars in this segment, as long as the 0-60 times stay sub 7 like the current TL type S, I will be very very happy!

Of coarse I always want more, but you can't always get what you want (I think there is a song about this )

In any case, I am still ready to buy one.

Again, thanks for all your information and help!

need4spd_RENAMED

BTW - Can anyone clear up some conflicting info I have seen in Car and Driver lately.

In the past, I saw 0-60 times of 6.5 for the TL type S, but in their most recent copy of the road test digest, it shows 7.3 (or 7.5), is that a typo?

What do other cars say for the TL type S? I always thought the sub 7 second time was great for an automatic!

planman

Good call, _driver. Most people buying a mid- to high-end luxury sedan (and yes, I think the new RL will qualify as one), buy more for feel and prestige than spec sheet numbers. In that class of car, most would give up a few horses for a bigger feature/gadget set.

Alex

This scan from MotorTrend
http://privet.com/forum/download.php?id=1924

Edmunds also manage to get 6.x numbers from TL-S - search edmunds.com website (comparasion section?).

Check www.car-stats.com too

Just keep in mind that all that 0-60 numbers can not be translated into real life (except drag-racing)- car jump as crazy horse if road surface just a little bit far form perfect (not to mention wet or sandy surface) and handling with such terrible wheels-spin no fun

need4spd_RENAMED

Thanks Alex for the info and proof!

Alex

My pleasure

Edmunds direct links:

2001 Entry Level Luxury Sport Sedans Comparison Test
http://edmunds.com/reviews/compariso...8/page028.html

2002-2003 Entry-Level Luxury Sport Sedans Comparison Test
http://edmunds.com/reviews/compariso...9/page013.html

See the difference

jwaters943

Justin.....I have a question about the HP figures. If you know the HP rating for the new TL, but can't give out exact figures, can you at least tell us if the new TL will have significantly more HP/Torque than the current Type S (by significant I mean approx. a 5% increase)?

Not trying to be pushy.....just naturally curious

Alex

Sorry for answering for Justin but new TL suppose to have 3.5L engine and the current 3.5L installed on MDX has 260hp which is same as 3.2 TL-S has but more torque (due to bigger displacement 3.5L vs 3.2L)

2003 Acura MDX 4WD 4dr SUV (3.5L 6cyl 5A)
http://edmunds.com/new/2003/acura/md...enav..8.Acura*

Base Number of Cylinders: 6 Base Engine Size: 3.5 liters
Base Engine Type: V6 Horsepower: 260 hp
Max Horsepower: 5750 rpm Torque: 250 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 3500 rpm

2003 Acura TL 3.2 Type-S 4dr Sedan (3.2L 6cyl 5A)
http://edmunds.com/new/2003/acura/tl...enav..8.Acura*

Base Number of Cylinders: 6 Base Engine Size: 3.2 liters
Base Engine Type: V6 Horsepower: 260 hp
Max Horsepower: 6100 rpm Torque: 232 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 3500 rpm

Pumping extra 10-20-whatever hp from 3.5L isn't difficult part but as I mentioned above makes no practical sense on FWD so if I would be responsible for marketing new TL I would vote for slight increase over the competition - let's make it 270hp

princed

Justin,

One quick question. From what you know about the upcoming TL, do you feel the 2004 model will it be evolutionary or revolutionary? 260-280 hp w/ bluetooth, dvd-audio, xm-radio and the new body style will definitely be a huge improvement, but seeing as most of these features are already present in other brands, the car seem more of an evolution of the current TL-S. When the AWD, 280+hp buzz with other "mystery features" was out there, the car definitely had the feeling of a revolutionary change for Acura, but as the hp numbers come down and AWD is now an option to be seen in the future, I'm getting less of a "this is going to shock and awe" feeling. Don't get me wrong, I still am keeping my deposit, but I'm praying that there are some TIA-inducing features on this car that have yet to be revealed. Maybe at the press release there will be something surprising and novel in this car that will make it truly stand out from its competition. I basically just want to know if there's something mysterious about the TL still looming -- I don't need to know what it is, I just want to know that it's out there...

Varmint

GV platform is not a Honda term I am familiar with. Is this a broad description of the platform, or is it more specific. I mean, the MDX is based on the Ody, which is based on the Accord, etc. What I'm wondering is, could the GV platform in question be the upcoming Odyssey? Or possibly the next RL?

Or is "GV platform" specific to a certain variation on the mid-size global platform?

Thanks.

EmuMessenger

I hope Justin responds to the questions about any little, undiscussed tid-bits.

In the interim, thanks to all for making the recent conversation more productive.

This thread is getting exciting again.

Iceman

I think we will get both with the new TL. If you want luxury, go for the automatic tranny. If you want performance, go for the 6 speed with 18" wheels, Brembo brakes, performance tires, etc etc.

hatchback

How pathetic would that be! Hoping for 280hp with AWD but busted down to more expensive tires and the world's most useless technology (aka Bluetooth). But it has the terrifying ring of truth. Sounds like the 2004 TL is going to be one big dud.

hatchback

Justinjsw, everyone agrees that the current RL is dead in the water and that its current design places no constraints on the 2004 TL redesign.

My argument was that an AWD 2004 TL would kill the future 2005 RL which is currently undergoing a major redesign with 300+ hp and AWD confirmed. The 2005 RL redesign is costing Honda big $$$$$ and there's no way that Honda would stupidly ruin any chance of recouping their investment in the 2005 RL by offering a cheaper product one year earlier with the same critical features.

typeR

thats it im calling Erik Berkman...



i totally belive that there's a typeS with vtm waiting maybe 6 months out ...base 270 the honda proclaimed limit for fwd and the typeS AWD 300hp car right around the corner

jwaters943

I just love how some people feel comfortable making statements like this.

Lets see, the "official" specs on the TL haven't been released yet, you haven't even seen the vehicle or sat in it, let alone driven one so what are you basing your opinion on....RUMOR?!? I agree that the possibility of the TL being stricly FWD is disappointing, but don't you think it's premature to call it a "big dud"?

And why do you call Bluetooth useless technology? I'm really curious why you feel that way. In my opinion, everything I have read about it sounds promising. In theory it would seem to make cellular phone calls while driving a less distracting task and the less distractions a driver has the better. Granted, there will be a learning curve so it may take a while to get the hang of it, but if anyone can incorporate technology in a simplistic, non-confusing way it's Honda. For example, their Nav systems are widely regarded as the most comprehensive and easiest to operate in the Automotive Industry.