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Honda is now three times the size of HK groupe in China and more electric and SUV platforms are coming in the way. Honda is not stupid that without body on Frame competition to Toyota/Nissan globally there is no point in investing in RWD/V8.. It does not have that half assed approach to investments like Hyundi group or Germanic crap that are available at bargain basement prices after lease return. Honda does not do 10 year warranties.
^ Yeah, the RLX has a little less interior space than XTS and Conti (but depending on the breakdown, could have about the same rear passenger space but less trunk space), but when the RLX launched, Acura was promoting it as having 7 Series passenger room for the price of a 5 Series.
The rear leg room of the RLX is quite generous though. If I remember correctly, it feels more spacious than my friend's F10 528i. One problem with the F10 though is getting into the rear seats. When he first got his car, I bumped my head into the car when getting it pretty often. I also bumped into the long rear door quite a few times when exiting the car.
Honda is now three times the size of HK groupe in China and more electric and SUV platforms are coming in the way. Honda is not stupid that without body on Frame competition to Toyota/Nissan globally there is no point in investing in RWD/V8.. It does not have that half assed approach to investments like Hyundi group or Germanic crap that are available at bargain basement prices after lease return. Honda does not do 10 year warranties.
American Honda Cars and Trucks Continue Strong Balanced Sales in May
Jun 1, 2017 - TORRANCE, Calif.
Honda HR-V sets new all-time monthly record in May, jumping 29 percent
Honda CR-V exceeds 32,000 sales for the month to post a 9.6 percent increase
Accord and Civic join CR-V, with each posting more than 31,000 sales for the month
Acura TLX sales increase 8.4 percent in May after record April sales
Acura RDX sales gain 12.8 percent in May, pushing Acura trucks to a 7.8 percent rise
American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported total May sales of 148,414 Honda and Acura vehicles, an increase of 0.9 percent over May 2016. Honda Division rose 0.7 percent on sales of 134,475 units, with trucks up 5.6 percent on sales of 63,650, and cars down 3.4 percent on sales of 70,825. Acura Division sales were up 2.8 percent in May, on sales of 13,939 vehicles, with trucks increasing 7.8 percent on sales of 9,456, and cars down 6.4 percent on sales of 4,483 units.
Honda
Honda is the only full-line brand experiencing sales growth thus far in 2017, with good reason: Civic and Accord are #1 and 2 in car sales for the year, with each exceeding 31,000 units in May, while HR-V and CR-V are off to a record start on the truck side. HR-V set a new all-time monthly record in May. Civic, Accord and CR-V again topped 30,000 units in May – seeking to top a combined annual total surpassing a million units for the 5th straight year. The Honda Clarity Fuel Cell is exceeding expectations as it opens new ground in the emerging fuel cell vehicle market.
Sales of the 10th generation Honda Civic have now exceeded 500,000 units in just the 19 months since the current model went on sale in November 2015. With more than 31,000 sales in May, Civic continues as the best-selling passenger car in America on a retail basis thus far in 2017.
Accord posted a stellar month, bucking the light truck trend with an increase of 5.0 percent on sales of 33,547 to lead Honda car sales in May.
HR-V celebrated taking sales leadership in the subcompact SUV segment by setting a new all-time sales record in May, with a gain of 29 percent on sales of 9,533 units.
CR-V gained 9.6 percent for the month on sales of 32,186, further cementing its SUV sales leadership in 2017.
"Honda is challenging convention demonstrating sales strength on both sides of the aisle in 2017, with Civic and Accord leading retail car sales while HR-V and CR-V set new records," said Jeff Conrad, senior vice president and general manager of the Honda Division. "Things are about to get even more exciting with the Civic Si now on sale, and the upcoming Type R providing evidence that the market still hungers for exciting, yet affordable cars."
Acura
Acura continues to show renewed momentum in the second quarter as TLX—the brand's best selling sedan—gained ground again in May after a record-setting April. Sales of Acura's sporty RDX also surged in May, joined by strong sales of MDX to push Acura trucks ahead of last year. Overall, the Acura division showed an increase of 2.8 percent on sales of 13,939 vehicles.
TLX gained 8.4 percent in May on sales of 3,508 units, creating momentum for the refreshed 2018 TLX hitting dealer showrooms across the U.S. today.
RDX enjoyed another strong month in a very competitive segment, rising 12.8 percent on sales of 5,149 in May.
MDX sales were up 2.4 percent in May with 4,307 units sold, just as the company began dual sourcing production for the MDX at the company's East Liberty Plant in Ohio.
Acura trucks were up 7.8 percent overall on sales of 9,456 units.
"With a perfect sense of timing, the redesigned 2018 Acura TLX starts sales today just as the outgoing TLX is enjoying some of its best months," said Jon Ikeda, vice president & general manager of the Acura division. "Coupled with the recently launched MDX Sport Hybrid, the Acura brand is building renewed energy through the brand's distinctive performance direction."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/a...nces.html?_r=0
And in a clear sign of a soft sales market, the company is offering heavy discounts. This week, for example, Grappone Hyundai in Bow, N.H., was advertising a fully loaded 2017 Sonata for $26,346 — more than $9,200 below its list price. Other models had discounts of $4,000 to $6,000, price cuts that would have been unimaginable five years ago.
Eliminate the RLX. Put a little more space into the TLX, put a twin turbo in the TLX, put more money and focus into making that an even better performance car
Eliminate ILX and make a coupe. Acura does not have a coupe, why? (I'm not talking the NSX ) Cause the Accord coupe sells a lot? So
Yup, Acura with 3 cars. No problem, just my thoughts
Eliminate ILX and make a coupe. Acura does not have a coupe, why? (I'm not talking the NSX ) Cause the Accord coupe sells a lot?
Acura doesn't have a coupe because coupes really don't sell well, particularly FWD coupes. An Acura coupe would sell worse than the ILX. Look at how poorly the CL sold. And word is Honda is going to axe the Accord coupe for the 10th gen/2018 model year because coupe sales just aren't there anymore.
The only coupes that will survive are those like the Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, 4 series, and a few other niche models (e.g. Miata). Main stream brands have killed their coupes over the years.
Toyota had the Camry coupe and Solara. Gone.
Nissan had the Altima coupe. Gone.
Chevy had the Cavalier and Monte Carlo. Gone.
Chrysler had the Sebring. Gone.
Hyundai had the Genesis coupe. Gone.
Mazda had the RX-8. Gone.
the RDX sold well tho, no? it was just a rough and loud (engine noise) ride
Hmm I'd say it did okay at best. Its best year was in 2007 where Acura sold 23000 of them. From 2008-2011 though, it's been selling around 10-15k a year. It works out to may be 1000-1200 units a month.
The 2g RDX has been doing much better, 45k for 2013 and 2014, then over 50k for 2015 and 2016, for each year. It's averaging 4000 units a month.
I have a 2007 RDX with almost 200000km now. The engine noise is actually not loud. Instead, it suffers from general road noise (tires, wind) and stiff ride. But the good thing is that it drives really well - it's actually fun to drive.
Originally Posted by AZuser
Acura doesn't have a coupe because coupes really don't sell well, particularly FWD coupes. An Acura coupe would sell worse than the ILX. Look at how poorly the CL sold. And word is Honda is going to axe the Accord coupe for the 10th gen/2018 model year because coupe sales just aren't there anymore.
I heard Honda might be getting rid of the Accord coupe because they are bringing back the Prelude.
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
so 3 series sales are down and while 4 series sales are up. They are almost the same in #s.
GC contributes more than 50% of the total 4 series sales obviously 3 series will suffer because of that.
If Acura pays any attention, they should know where the market is headed....
Nevermind, they know, they just don't care.
I rented a 418d GC in Germany and it was large enough to sit 4 people including all the baggages. I doubt a 3 series could have done that haha. It also has nicer styling IMO than a 3 series. I definitely think Acura should considering making GC models.
May be I'm misunderstanding something, but why do they need a coupe first before they can do GC? By GC, I'm also thinking about cars like the Audi A5 sportback or A7.
Eliminate the RLX. Put a little more space into the TLX, put a twin turbo in the TLX, put more money and focus into making that an even better performance car
Eliminate ILX and make a coupe. Acura does not have a coupe, why? (I'm not talking the NSX ) Cause the Accord coupe sells a lot? So
Yup, Acura with 3 cars. No problem, just my thoughts
I don't think Acura should eliminate the ILX or RLX. The current ILX is a poor value proposition. It doesn't look better than a Civic. A nicely optioned Civic is better on the interior. The ILX is a half-ass product. They need to one make it more premium looking. Two get much better interior trim as well as beefier engine. It needs to be able to compete with the BMW 2 series, Audi A3, MB CLA, and many of the other premium compact sedans. The RLX needs to be completely redone. In that class either RWD or AWD. I don't know who would spend that much for FWD.
It seems idiotic they have the premium Acura brand in only a couple markets, but not worldwide. Why the fuck does Acura even exist, if they're just selling Hondas as premium vehicles in Europe? Why have Acura in Russia then? Makes zero sense.
It seems idiotic they have the premium Acura brand in only a couple markets, but not worldwide. Why the fuck does Acura even exist, if they're just selling Hondas as premium vehicles in Europe? Why have Acura in Russia then? Makes zero sense.
Actually Acura no longer exists in Russia, and they are barely alive in China thanks to the new CDX.
Honda has a fair reputation (albeit they should build more performance models), but I just don't get why they wouldn't put Acuras in Europe. I fail to see how competing in Europe would do anything but improve the Acura brand.
Acura doesn't have a coupe because coupes really don't sell well, particularly FWD coupes. An Acura coupe would sell worse than the ILX. Look at how poorly the CL sold. And word is Honda is going to axe the Accord coupe for the 10th gen/2018 model year because coupe sales just aren't there anymore.
The only coupes that will survive are those like the Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, 4 series, and a few other niche models (e.g. Miata). Main stream brands have killed their coupes over the years.
Toyota had the Camry coupe and Solara. Gone.
Nissan had the Altima coupe. Gone.
Chevy had the Cavalier and Monte Carlo. Gone.
Chrysler had the Sebring. Gone.
Hyundai had the Genesis coupe. Gone.
Mazda had the RX-8. Gone.
Notice a pattern?
Infiniti and Lexus all still have coupes who I "thought" Acura was competing against. Audi, BMW, and MB will continue selling them too. It's just too late to introduce a coupe with Acura, a standalone couple. They would have to do a coupe/sedan of a car which doesn't go with any of their lineup
Infiniti and Lexus all still have coupes who I "thought" Acura was competing against.
Acura might be competing against Infiniti, but Lexus too?
Yes, Infiniti and Lexus still offer coupes, but those sell in somewhat low numbers . . . certainly lower than the ILX which you think Acura should get rid of because . . . it sells in low numbers?
If Acura offered a coupe, it'd sell in similarly low numbers relative to the Infiniti Q60 and Lexus RC. Actually, I'd bet it would sell even less than the Q60 and RC which begs the question of why would Acura replace the (somewhat low selling) ILX with something that would sell even less?
The main reason ILX sales are down this year is because the car is in its 5th year of production. What mainstream car model doesn't see sales slow down in its 5th year of production? A new and updated 2nd gen version hopefully will fix things.
. . . . . . . . ILX vs Q60 vs RC . . . . 2015: 18,531 vs 3,949 vs 14,784 2016: 14,597 vs 3,970 vs 11,165 2017 YTD: 3,958 vs 5,087 vs 2,600
If we are talking strictly about from #'s perspective, yes you are right. Acura... actually most of the brand could live without a coupe.
But what the #s don't show is Coupes usually are the better looking version of their sedan counter part. The reason why they are not selling as well is obvious, #1 the higher price #2 practicality. It is one of those things that everyone loves to look at but fewer will buy.
Sales #s can't justify the "Real life marketing" coupes do for its brand. and how many customers it can bring in to its show room for their other models. In other word, they don't need the coupe's sales # but they need the coupe's appeal and other things that it brings to the brand.
While i do not have the sales # but i suspect 6 series (coupe), S coupe, E class coupe, LC, and pretty much all premium coupes all have low sales #s when compare to their sedan siblings, I am sure they know how many they would sell, yet continue to bring in coupes.
In Acura's case, if they could stick to a model with few hundred in sales (RLX or ILX), i would rather have a low volume Coupe than a "Flagship" that no one cares about.
Last edited by oonowindoo; Jun 4, 2017 at 09:03 PM.
Acura might be competing against Infiniti, but Lexus too?
Yes, Infiniti and Lexus still offer coupes, but those sell in somewhat low numbers . . . certainly lower than the ILX which you think Acura should get rid of because . . . it sells in low numbers?
If Acura offered a coupe, it'd sell in similarly low numbers relative to the Infiniti Q60 and Lexus RC. Actually, I'd bet it would sell even less than the Q60 and RC which begs the question of why would Acura replace the (somewhat low selling) ILX with something that would sell even less?
The main reason ILX sales are down this year is because the car is in its 5th year of production. What mainstream car model doesn't see sales slow down in its 5th year of production? A new and updated 2nd gen version hopefully will fix things.
. . . . . . . . ILX vs Q60 vs RC . . . . 2015: 18,531 vs 3,949 vs 14,784 2016: 14,597 vs 3,970 vs 11,165 2017 YTD: 3,958 vs 5,087 vs 2,600
I know this is easier said than done, but back in the Integra days Acura totally rocked the "entry-level luxury" market. Having a sporty, comfortable coupe was part of that. In fact, at the peak of their success, Acura only sold three vehicles: Integra, Legend, and NSX. Now they offer more models but none is a standout compared to the competition.
pipe dreaming;
400-450HP with SH-SHAWD
coupe with nsx like design, but obviously smaller..like an s2k replacement
the NSX is pretty small already. I don't think they can make the cabin any smaller (maybe a bit narrower), and beyond that, it already has a tiny trunk. I guess the engine bay could likely shrink an inch or two, if they use something like the CTR engine and sport hybrid tech. I dunno.
The MR setup seems to make the car longer than necessary. You have the hood area, then cabin, then engine bay, then trunk. I could see them making the car smaller if the engine went into the hood area, but that's about it. That in itself would give way to making the car smaller, but then you lose the MR beauty. So I dunno...
the NSX is pretty small already. I don't think they can make the cabin any smaller (maybe a bit narrower), and beyond that, it already has a tiny trunk. I guess the engine bay could likely shrink an inch or two, if they use something like the CTR engine and sport hybrid tech. I dunno.
The MR setup seems to make the car longer than necessary. You have the hood area, then cabin, then engine bay, then trunk. I could see them making the car smaller if the engine went into the hood area, but that's about it. That in itself would give way to making the car smaller, but then you lose the MR beauty. So I dunno...
COuld be very interesting for the R/D guys and drawing board exercises....I think you're on the mark in suggesting moving the engine to front (front-midship layout?) in order to save any more room.
Basically it can be a 2-door, lighter weight version of the RLX SH-SHAWD (which is basically a front engined, 4 door "NSX")
True. But that would then be more of a GT style coupe, rather than a sport coupe. Personally, I think it would be really awesome but I just don't see there being a huge market for such a car. At least for Acura, I can't see them moving many of such a car. I think they would sell many more dedicated sport coupes.
Right. With the image that Acura has procured for itself as a luxury performance brand....all their modern offerings are loaded with things with come with weight. So yea it'll be a heavy GT-type cruiser and not much of a light weight sports car.
The SHAWD is gonna be heavy....and only way to save big weight is to ditch that totally...but then they lose the one thing that Acura seems to bank their future on with that new drivetrain tech.
But yeah...the GT coupe arena has MANY many competitors.....
pipe dreaming;
400-450HP with SH-SHAWD
coupe with nsx like design, but obviously smaller..like an s2k replacement
That would be good... but NSX is starting at 150k already. a smaller version with 400-450 SHAWD is likely going to be too expensive for most of us.... especially for a 2 seater.
) Cause the Accord coupe sells a lot? So
That's even fucking worse!
