oonowindoo

No one gives a shit about used prices.... no one but you.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I do! because I'm poor.
HOWEVER; Acura's wouldnt even be on my list of future used cars, save for the new NSX
so...you're right! no one cares about Acura used prices.

oonowindoo

^ more specifically, no one would pick an Acura over Lexus because "Lexus does not have good resale values".

We are talking about Lexus here...

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

used vs used, I'd go for the LEXUS each time.
a nice used RCF would be cool!!!
then if i wanted plush, go for the GS models or LS. both smash the shit out of acura

TacoBello

How do used car prices help Acura in any sort of way?

Oh, they don't? Thanks for contributing nothing, SSFTSX.

AZuser

I'm guessing he thinks that because Acura's tend to have strong resale prices, people will buy a new Acura over a Lexus, that way when it comes time to sell/trade-in the car, they'll get more of their money back.

The problem is Lexus' have strong resale prices too. They're just as good as, if not slightly better than, Acura.

https://www.kbb.com/new-cars/best-re...st-brand-2016/

oonowindoo

^

I am waiting for him to find 10 examples from Autotrader to prove you wrong

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The ES is still a big seller for sure, while GS does decently.

The importance of the grille...

YEH

Value still works for a good chunk of the premium/luxury market - just have to do it correctly.

Having compelling sheetmetal would go a long way in succeeding at the value end of the market.

Tho, that's not always the case - see Lexus currently.

But Lexus has other things going for it, and the most successful/best selling Lexus models are the ones that offer the greatest value (NX, RX and ES).

The current gen GS has never been able to attain the sales volume of its predecessors and has really been struggling lately (on track to sell only 6,780 for the year).


He's just resorting to resale value since he doesn't have much else to go on.

The cars with the worst resale values are those like a loaded S550 or the Alpina B7.

People at that end of the market could have a rat's arse about resale value as they simply want the newest and the best (and besides, after 2-3 years, they trade it in for a new model).

YEH

LOL!

As usual, you are deluded and change the facts.

This is an Acura forum and a thread which is about Acura sales and finances.

Who cares about how many Civics or CR-Vs Honda sells right now (good for them)?

Just like how you like to bring up completely off-topic things like resale value and the aerodynamics of side mirrors to obfuscate the fact that Acura as a brand is struggling (and if it weren't for its crossovers, would be in a world of hurt).

The word is that the KDM Kia Stinger will start at around $28k - so a sub-$30k starting price for the turbo 4 model seems likely for the US market.

The Genesis G70 will likely start a bit higher.

TLX sales have been falling and ILX sales have dwindled down to the 3 digits.

The addition of the Stinger and G70 will likely speed up the decline in TLX sales.

And oh, even a top Lexus exec has admitted that sharing (FWD) platforms has hurt Lexus when it has come to competing with the Germans (which really shouldn't be a surprise for anyone).


Eh, more like taking candy from a baby (not even close to being a fair fight).

SSFTSX

Honda surpass Hyundai-Kia combined in China.

BRIEF-Honda says Jan-March China vehicle sales up 16.6 pct y/y | Reuters

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I see ALL of your points.

AZuser

Changing the subject again.....

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Is it just this year or overall sales of the whole generation? I see that this current gen was form 2013..time for a replacement soon?

TacoBello

I remember reading recently (on Jalopnik, I think) that Lexus will be killing off the GS after this generation, due to dropping sales. Not sure if true.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Whoa, really? Sure it wasn't April 1st that you read it eh? What are they gonna do, move the ES up into that space?? lol. It's sort of weird to have the ES and IS, then go all the way to LS....

MSZ

Lexus will eventually become a full FWD brand within 10 years, none of their RWD based cars are selling in the States, let alone the rest of the world.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I don't know about that man....all Lexus RWD models are essentially on the same Toyota N platform. That same platform is also for Toyota Mark II, Mark X, Crown, and a bunch of JDM cars.

TacoBello

Lexus set to pull the plug on the GS sedan ? report - CARmag.co.za

nothing definitive, but this isn't the first time I've heard this in the last few months

MSZ

LS and LC now ride on a new platform, they better put more JDM cars using this platform too, I highly doubt that buyers will choose LS and LC at the current prices over any European competition.
​​

YEH

Yeah, only someone living in his own little world full of delusions would than proceed to do the very same thing I just called him out for.

Funny how he never responds to my having pointed out that Kia, alone, outsells Honda in markets like Europe and Australia.

And the king of delusions also never gives the proper context.

Right now, the Chinese are boycotting South Korean products at the urging of their govt. being upset over the Koreans acquiring the THAAD missile defense system in order to better protect themselves from the el tubbo north of the DMZ.

It's gotten so stupid that China state CCTV even refused to show close-ups of the SK golfer who won the LPGA tournament held in China last month.

Anyway, back on topic.

Kia confirmed a 0-100kmh time of 4.9s for the RWD Stinger GT, so somewhere around 4.7s for 0-60mph.

Wonder what excuses the resident troll is going to come up when TLX sales get hit by the sledge hammer (probably will revive the Acura wanted the TLX to be more exclusive)?

Speaking of which, on the largest Lexus owners site, there have been numerous threads comparing the pros and cons of the Genesis G80 and G90 to the what Lexus has to offer.

Otoh, the topic of discussion when it comes to Acura was - Is Lexus Becoming the Next Acura? (Over the increasing reliance on FWD-based models for sales.)

kurtatx

If Lexus meets the same fate as Acura sedans, I'm not sure Genesis is going to do anything better.

However, even if Lexus goes full FWD (or at least full AWD for the higher models), the Lexus name goes a lot further in selling cars. It would by too bad, however.

CLtotheTL32

iTrader: (3)

Yep, the 4G GS is 2013+. The current refresh is 2016+.

From what I've heard from reputable sources () the ES and GS will be combined into one platform. Sort of like the TSX and TL becoming the TLX, though the ES is FWD and the GS is RWD or AWD.

Sedan sales are way down. The NX is extremely close to passing the second place ES in overall sales, behind the leading RX.

TacoBello

I wonder how long this trend will last for. Once fuel prices go up, I wonder if people will start ditching their 4x4s and AWD SUVs for sedans again.

At least that's my hope.

seriously, I can't stand driving tall vehicles. Any of them. Trucks, SUVs, CUVs, whatever.

kurtatx

I hope, for our sakes, that the wagon thing catches on with more automakers.

MSZ

I can't stand driving my CRV either, but my wifey loves it, my 2 and half years old daughter loves it.

Can't wait to buy myself the Civic hatchback sport soon. As early as next year I think.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

shiet, if fuel was going up...I wouldnt have lost my job.

fsttyms1

I think lexus declining sales is due to their polarizing design. While many find it attractive it can be a huge turnoff to potential buyers who may find another brand slightly more appealing even if they werent going to originally choose them. Its the same rut Acura has been in for 10+ years. The vehicle HAS to be the complete package to gather potential buyers. Give them powertrain options, interior options, and a solid design.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Haha don't cancel the GS and put it on that new platform!

If fuel prices go up again, and people still want tall cars, I'd think Acura is poised to take that market with the MDX sport hybrid. Hopefully, Acura will follow suit with a RDX sport hybrid too. It just makes a lot of sense for SUV/CUV people - pay a very small premium, get more power, way better fuel economy, while keeping AWD.

TacoBello

Dude, it absolutely blew my mind when I was in Germany a few months ago. There are literally more hatchbacks/wagons on the roads there, than sedans. There's no room for pickup trucks there, so people buy wagons as their utility vehicles. They are beautiful, practical and made to fit any lifestyle. Europeans do so many things better than north americans

TacoBello

But you got it back again, so all is well and prices are skyrocketing!

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

as i sit here with ABSOLUTELY zero work....


which, i'm not complaining.. its just that I dont see how the business will stay afloat if no work...but decided to keep my salary....?


and if no business, means the oil industry is hurting. BADLY.

Edward'TLS

Female drivers, such as my wife, love tall vehicles, because they can sit higher up, over the cars ahead, and see further down the road. So there are always tall-vehicle fans irrespective of the fuel prices.

However, when the time comes with everyone driving tall vehicles, my wife won't be happy because she no longer sits higher up than the rest of the traffic.

kurtatx

I saw maybe 2 sedans in my entire stay in the old country (Italy)

SSFTSX

you have no understaanding and making more excuses for falling sales and profitability of H/K group. do you think Chinese will boycott south korean cars and not Japanese based on country of origin. fact is H/K group has invested in mediocre products and built factory at wrong places. Honda sales in China and India are very important as it give profitability. it allow to spend on effeicient and effective R&D. thats why can built MDX hybrid at $58K loaded with torque vectoring on 20inch rims with more performance than BMW X5e or Volvo XC90 hybrid cost $100k but dont have same handling or fuel economic.
Civic sport totally demolish its competition in 0-120mph in C&D comparision test. they were not even close in aerodynamics and handling even on all season tires. Honda R&D and reliability is very deep. just wait for NSX improvements. Civic Si and Civic Type R. they are ground breaking in aerodynamics and handling. Honda are still at lowest incentives for SUVs. Honda Ridgeline win C&D comparision test.

kurtatx

The only thing worse than the content of this post is the spelling

TacoBello

I like how he babbles on about factory placement and profitability based on such... What the fuck does he know about factory placement and profitability? He must have some kind of inside scoop that no one else does.

also, with the way he talks about H/K, you'd think they would've folded five years ago. And yet... They're building nicer, cooler cars now then they ever did before.

His rhetoric is getting tiring. Mostly because it's just based on his opinion, or whatever single article he can dig up (which he probably wrote himself) that supports his rhetoric, from God knows where.

YEH

True that all sedan sales are being hurt by the increasing movement to crossovers and SUVs and true that Asian luxury brand RWD sedan sales have been struggling against those from MB and BMW, but think Genesis will fare better than its RWD Asian competitors on the basis that it really brings it on the value equation and that's the one way to survive against the German competition.

In addition, think the Genesis brand will are better with its RWD models due to having better sheetmetal than the Japanese competition.

Personally, find the G80 and G90 too bland, but the upcoming G70 looks a good bit better.

And future Genesis models should look even better as the future models will be based on the Vision G and New York concepts (the G70's design had already been frozen by that time).

But still, not going to see volume like that for MB and BMW.

Had been stating all along that Hyundai really should add a 3rd crossover to the planned 6 model Genesis lineup, but Genesis just announced that they are developing an EV model and if they are smart, they would make it a crossover.


Crossovers pretty much are nothing more than lifted hatches (smaller crossovers) and wagons (larger crossovers).

Don't think higher gas prices will prevent people from buying crossovers as most buyers move down a segment size when moving to crossovers (i.e. - Accord buyers purchasing a CR-V instead of the Pilot) and automakers have narrowed the disparity in fuel economy btwn sedans and crossovers (one size segment down).

Plus, we're going to be seeing more hybrid/PHEV crossovers (as well as EV) with some dropping the weight of a mechanical AWD system for an e-AWD system.


That's probably true for the higher end Lexus sedans such as the GS and LS, but then again, GX sales have increased despite Lexus tacking on the Predator grill (the price cut for the GX has helped sales).

Think you're closer with your latter comment re powertrain options.

Toyota has not only been slow in replacing the LS460, but they haven't really updated the powertrains for the LS and GS (basically using the same V6 and V8 for over a decade).

They just recently added a turbo 4 for the GS (which, btw, isn't selling), but still no turbo 6 or turbo 8 (for the GS-F).

Even worse is the fact that the LS460 has been saddled with the same NA V8 for what seems like forever.

Despite being a latecomer to the market, Hyundai updated the V8 in the Equus/G90 (going from a 4.6L to a 5.0L) and beating Toyota to the punch with a TTV6 (pretty embarrassing that the G80 not only has a more powerful V8 than the LS460, but also beat Lexus to the punch with a TTV6).

YEH

^ Luxury buyers (esp. at the higher end) want options and don't fret about spending the $$ for having the best - hence soccer-moms in wealthy enclaves driving around in the (TTV8 or even the V12) $130k-$150k G-Wagons (despite it riding like the ancient military vehicle it is based on) or the Alpina B7 (what soccer mom needs 600HP at her disposal?).


Um, the boycott of Japanese brands has been over.

Get a clue about what is happening in the world; the PRC govt. has moved on to the Koreans.

Also, it's not like Honda is doing well in certain markets like Europe (hmmm, why don't we ever see you commenting about that?).

But again, this is an Acura forum and not a Honda one.


E Class - 4,690
5 Series - 3,161
A6 - 1,576
XTS - 1,484
G80 - 1,347 (with another 150 or so of the former Genesis and the G80 Sport still to arrive)
Q70 - 1,072
Continental - 963
CTS - 882
GS - 737
S90 - 448
RLX - 110 - SAD!!

SSFTSX

it does not change the fact that RLX is with J series engine and 6speed auto that first introduce in 2010 MDX 6speed auto. there is not much investment into RLX as it is based older Accord platform. so there is no losses. Honda EU is priced like Acura. so its understandable there sales low and Honda does not have factories in Eastern EU and Turkey. there is not much capacity unless it is exported from Asia like thailand. you still fail to see that so called H/K Genesis brand hasnt open separate dealership network. this is going towards failure.
Car is expensive investment for Chinese. they dont make those decision based what country to boycott which month.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/6070228557.html

2015 Hyundai Genesis * Fully Loaded * Tech & Sig Packages *AWD - $28800 (san rafael)

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/6079577728.html

2016 Hyundai Genesis White *SAVE $$$* - $30750 (concord / pleasant hill / martinez)

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/6079578850.html

2016 Hyundai Genesis Brown Current SPECIAL!!! - $30950