Scott P

I can now say that I have successfully bypassed the lock out that prohibits watching video on the AVIC pieces while driving. The funny thing is the answer was right in front of me the whole time. Who knew? Anyway just for fun I'll let this sit overnight before i share the info on how to do it. . .

Tsx536

Awesome Scott!

Thatz great info. I have a N1 and I will most likely be buying the N2 upgrade when it comes out. I was kinda worried there was no way to bypass it.

Are the Performance gauges still functional, does the fix involve not hooking up the VSS wire?

Scott P

nope way off. every thing still functional, everything hooked up. . . .you just need something you already have. . . . :mysterious:

elduderino

Hee hee... so was the software using the internal gyro to do that?

InstallerJohn

Im listening....

TommyJ25

The N2 came out over two weeks ago.

Scott P

there are now two people on this board that know how to bypass it. and one of them used the magic word here already

MeldyS26

dont you just cut a piece of wire off and connect it to suttin metal in the car?

Tsx536

Is it somehow disabling or grounding the internal gyro?

Or is this a software related fix.

When you say, you use something that you already have.....do you mean something that already comes with the N2, or was it something I would have already have since I have an N1?

StreetEffectz

Not where you run the rear video output into the backup camera input and put a switch on the backup camera wire to fool the unit into being in reverse? If so, you have NO CONTROL over the DVD functions this way.

dark inspire

come on Scott!! OUT WITH IT!!

RichMax

I have a solution that is more complex... but workable.
Because of the litigious nature of people on this side of the Atlantic, Pioneer restricts the N1/N2. However, the X1/X2 will not be restricted in the same fashion.
While, granted, plenty of software differences exist between the US and other versions, the most important one should be fairly visible once the original X1 software is compared to the newer X1 software and the newer N1 software...

Something to think about in case Scott leaves us all hanging...

My guess is that he used the old software disc... because cutting the vss wire makes the navi less accurate, especially in situations when it is relying on VSS AND GPS inputs... like going through long tunnels.

CCColtsicehockey

come on scott I am getting an N2 soon I want to know how

Scott P

so many people are so close. Let's put it this way, other than the traditional parking brake part, there is no lock out built into the hardware.

I'll just tell you how i figured it out. I was talking to the midsouth tech and sales rep (yes it is one person which sucks for him), anyway I was asking about this latest mandatory update of the navigation discs for the avic n1 and how the new discs managed to update the gyros in the avic n1 so that they would cause the same problems as the avic n2. He confirmed that they indeed update the gyros in the avic n1 so that this mysterious lock out would occur even if you throw the parking brake wire to a ground. well naturally that got me thinking and I asked the million dollar question.

"If I use the original discs AVIC N1 discs in any of the AVIC products would they still work for navigation and revert the gyros to a point where they were not controlling the lockout and therefore able to watch video while driving."

His answer," Of course i can't tell you how to bypass the safety features, but congratulations on being the first (that he knew of atleast) to figure it out."

Now I will be honest, I haven't been able to track down any AVIC N1 discs in my store at the moment and i have no desire to tell anyone here in memphis how to do this so as they can help in the search, meaning that I haven't been able to personally test this. so That is where all of you come in. I know there has to be someone here that has access to both the N1 and the N2 and can get the version 1.0 nav discs.

So there you go that is how to bypass it (scary how simple it is) all i ask in exchange for this info is that you let me know how it goes and to take pictures if you are able.

RichMax

There's still a problem with that approach, and that problem is the reason why a mix of data on one disc may be the solution (see my earlier post, this thread).

Why would anyone want to use the old map data on the original N1 discs for navigation after having obtained the newer (N2) discs? Supposedly a great deal of updates have been made to the POI telephone database, all of which would be lost if you did the upgrade then used the old N1 disc.

Further, it wouldnt make sense for the OS to be stored on AND then RUN off the disc every time the NAV was used. Nor would it make sense for the OS to be loaded into temporary memory from the disc every time Navi was used. Think about why. About 64 MB of memory is reserved for map storage, used when the DISC is NOT in the AVIC. The implication is simple: Install an update, that update stays on your system and becomes the basis of system operation, regardless of which map disc you use (bear in mind that OLD map discs may not even WORK)

My theory is that a one-time load of the OS is done when a new disc is inserted, and that load is permanent until another update is loaded into the AVIC. If that is the case, my theory (above) needs to be applied. Someone needs to find a way to eliminate the gyro lockout by comparing the US(AVIC-N1) discs with the "World"(AVIC-X1) discs, which have no such lockout included. Then a disc needs to be synthesized that incorporates all the updates. If anyone needs me to explain how this would be done, e-mail me. I'm not a software engineer, but if anyone is or has access to one, we can make short work of this in a week or so simply by comparing some code.

Dammit, Scott, I was hoping for better than that, and that you would at least have had a chance to test your theory Thanks for putting forth a viable effort though...

Scott P

As I said what got me started on the train of thought is that (atleast for the us edition of the avic n1) Pioneer has a mandated upgrade on the discs to the AVIC-N1. Built in on the disc is the coding to tell the gyros in the unit when the car is in motion regardless of what the parking brake wire shows. Therefore telling the N1 to disable front seat video while driving.

Well we all know the N1 is capable of video while driving. So that is a tell tale give away that the lock out is a software generated function. It really isn't that hard to fathom when you think about how many other things are piggy backed on those nav discs.

Nonetheless that is what spawned the idea, and why i then approached pioneer employees with the theory. Now I understand that without testing it myself there is a grain of doubt to be had, but that being said I have worked with both of the people i approached for some time and trust that they would not start lying to me out of the blue.

This bypass does come with a bit of negative effects as well. It is true that the N2 discs are far better than the N1 discs as far as navigation goes. If I remember the numbers right N1 discs had about 54% of the country mapped while the N2 had 75ish% mapped. That is a huge difference. To me I could care less about front seat video, but I know that isn't always the case for everyone, so i am just passing along the information i came upon.

Raven_

Any update on solving the N2 lockout issue? I still don't see a solid solution that has been tried. I read in another thread that somebody got a switch installed on his N2 but don't have any details on that yet.

I currently have a N1 and upgrading to N2 and would like the same features as my N1.

Thanks
Raven

Raven_

This is what I found so far...

Step One: Take a 1 foot RCA and plug one end into the "video out" (yellow). take the other end of the RCA and plug it into the "camera" in.

Step Two: Take the reverse input wire that comes off the brain of the Avic-N2 and connect it to 12 volts.

Step Three: Take that same wire and cut it in half. connect each side of this cut wire to a toggle switch.

Step Four: Select the source you want to display on your video output (see avic-n2 owners manual).

Step Five: Match the source to the one selected for video out. (this will give you audio)

Step Six: Flip the switch and watch a movie

----------------------------------------

Has anybody tried this? is there something better?

Doesn't this solution have problems? looking at the movie through your rear camera input will be squished since the right side has nav info, no?

Tyzing

from what i understand, once you've inserted your "new discs" you cannot go back to the n1's software...at least that's what other forums are saying...yes i know the shock, but there are other forums then acurazine!!!! ;-)

Jputt

I have been selling the AVIC-N2 for almost a whole month.

Jputt

One of my installers came up with this same fix, however you do loose some screen area. There has to be a better way to do it, we just havn't found it yet.

Tyzing

You know I'm not a big tech guy although i do know a little about software and crap but it's just a matter of time before someone comes up with a better fix....that will happen, something i'm not sure about is if someone will be able to come up with a new interface for the gyros that offer 0-60 times and other things actually useful....that's something that if pioneer wanted to fix they prob. can...i'd love to see that happen, if it can accept pics off a cd-rom then i'm sure it will be able to accept other things....we'll see i guess, i'm rambling so i better stop ;-)

Scott P

meh I've since come across a better way to interupt the gyros and allow video, but i will not post it here because if even on step is slightly messed up you might as well kiss your navigation good by and pioneer will not fix it under warranty.

Scott P

if you look at all the features offered within the vehichle dynamics set up i bet you would be pretty amazed what all the avic's can do.

Tyzing

i'm glad to hear that....i havent installed yet....prob. next weekend, that's why i'm trying to gather all the info about bypass and everything before the install....thanks for the advice and info

Raven_

I will be getting my AVIC-N2 next week. Since I already have the N1, I have the original N1 discs.

Will the original 1.0 or 1.1 N1 discs work on the N2 to bypass the video lock?

I am also planning on creating a special hybrid disc to have the N1 software but with the newest map data

Tsx536

If you make one of those discs...let me know man...I'd be interested!
I heard the N2 discs have like 20% more map coverage.
What version of the N1 discs do you have?

I actually have 1.2 for the N1 discs.

Raven_

I have the 1.1 Discs for the N1. I waited and waited forever to get the 1.2s from Pioneer but never got them. From what I hear there's not much difference at all between 1.1 and 1.2

I started looking at the 1.1 disc structure last night and map data seems pretty easy to figure out. The only problem will be testing. at $5-7 per dual layer disc, testing will not be cheap

Dual Layer rewritables don't exist

Tsx536

Yeah, I don't think there is a lot of differences. Nothing noticeable to me anyway. Probably just a little more map coverate I'm guessing

Sounds like you're on the way though man. Let me know!
I definitely want a west coast disc if you end up being able to do this!
I could pay you for the discs plus a little more too.

Good luck man...and let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

Scott P

here is the difference on the discs: the on the original n1 discs (not the updated ones they are trying to send out now) the country is approx. 54% mapped. On the N2 discs the country is approx. 76% mapped but it also contains the coding to do the gyro lockout. So this means that if you use the N1 discs first in either unit the gyro lockout will not be effect. However if you use the N2 discs in either unit, you cannot break the law and watch video while driving.

Tyzing

I'll pay to buy one!!!! Let us know ASAP

Raven_

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the info. Do you know if the N2 discs have some kind of code that update firmware chips inside the AVIC (if any) that would prevent using N1 discs again? or does a simple reset of the unit allow us to use the N1 discs again?

Thanks
Raven

Tyzing

guys read my new thread...i know i know i should have put it in here but it's ground breaking news....i hope

Tyzing

any updates?

NSTYL

Once you load the N2 UPGRADE DISC, reseting the N1 will not allow you to load the original disc. I have done this twice with no avail.

So far the only way to go back to the Original N1 disc is to send in the N1 to Pioneer and have them erase the drive / memory and then install the Original N1 Disc. This will take from 5 + business days. You can call Pioneer at
1-213-PIONEER and they will tell you what steps you need to take in sending in your unit.

I hope this helps. I am hoping that "Scott P" will divulge how to bypass the gyro's so that I dont have to do that. I am going to a computer programing friend of mine to see if he can figure out away around the safeties by copying the disc and removing them and hopefully be able to reload them. If there doesnt work, then i will be sending it. I may wait a couple of weeks to see if anything comes about through the many forums I am viewing.

Hope this helps.

NSTYL

acepec

EVERYBODY I HAVE THE ANSWER. i had the Avic n1 before but some fucking guy break into my car and take the whole system while i'm in the mall. i bought the Avic n2 and install it after. then one day i accidently put the n1's disc into the system the system doesn't recongnize the disc so whichs mean the n1 disc don't work for the n2 unit. my n1 disc is 1.0 version, maybe some other n1 versi0on disc might work.

Tsx536

I tried it with the version 1.2 N1 disk and that didn't work either. From what I heard, you definitely cannot revert back to the N1 disc after installing the N2 disc.

Swine

Amazing that the answer isn't in this thread....

But here it is..... has nothing to do with discs, this is for the N-2 only.....

On the AVic N2, itself, NOT the brain, pull it out on the bottom there is a small silver decal, peel that decal away and there will be two solder points (should say F197) Loop a wire between those two points AND DONE!

The lockout is not employed on the N-2 units used in Europe, and this is exatly how those units are sold. Same way as the factory..... If you ever have to send it back for warranty, just remove the wire.....

Now, if someone can help me find a new (display) ribbon cable on my N-1, I'd be most appreciative.....

If you've already updated your N-1 discs and lost motion- send the unit back to pioneer and have it undone.

Then, copy the updated dics to a different disc, but don't copy all the files... there are several updates, and the lockout is in a seperate file than map updates. It's the only way I'm aware of to get new maps without the lockout...

penaduny

if you go on ebay, theres auctions for info on unlucking them.... this is the exact info that is sold:
-
The Real AVIC Bypass

Disclaimer: You purchased the information, not the results of the information, if you are not comfortable with electronics then do not continue, there are no refunds and I am not responsible with what you do with this information

Background: What people do not know is that the AVIC-N2/D1 is the same in every country, although in every country other then the US you can watch DVD’s and use all of your Navigation features. A question my electronics shop asked ourselves was, if the hardware is the same, the software is the same they what is the AVIC missing to keep you from being able to use all of its features. Other bypass’s make you use 3-6 switches and relays and opening up the brain to the unit or cutting the GPS wire.

Solution: All that’s needed is one wire….The difference between all the units in the other country is they have a wire connecting two different processors and this is how you do it.

AVIC- N2: On the Dash unit not the Brain underneath the unit is a small silver sticker, peel this back. There are two contacts with the label "R197" or label “F197” there should be two soldier points loop a wire between those two points AND DONE!!!! Everything bypassed, THE REAL WAY TO DO IT.

AVIC-D1: Find an extra Pioneer wire harness, and pull one of the wires out. Or, if you do not use the A.ANT lead, pull that out of the harness. In the AVIC-D1 harness, there is one open spot on the connector (next to the ground wire). Put the wire into the open spot on the connector, connect the other side to ground, then re-connect the plug to the AVIC-D1. Also, you must ground the Parking Brake wire (or connect to a toggle switch if you feel the need).

Before you continue please read:
Your warranty will be voided unless you keep this mod very clean so you can undo it and they will never even notice that you did it, our Pioneer rep actually is the person who filled me in on this information. Also, Use 26 Gauge (or something close) and this is very important: DO NOT DROP SOLDIER, if you look carefully, there are traces around these two points that absolutely cannot be contacted. It was hard for me to do because these points were so small and that the wire was so thin. It is best to use a soldering iron that has a super fine tip and heats up better then most…if you feel uncomfortable with this process then take it to a electronics or computer repair shop and they could do it for you in 5 minutes and for around $5 bucks….be very careful, b/c if you touch these traces I do not know what will happen or want to know what will happen...this is like most mods, it’s a very simple mod (the easiest type you can find) although like anything a lot is at stake and could go wrong, please, if you do not feel comfortable doing this then DON’T, spending an extra $5 is worth it to get it done right…

vlad1320

everybody there is even a easier way to bypass the video take out the deck flip it over take off the little chrome cover. you will see 2 contacts underneath that cover drop a ball of solder on it put everything back together and have a good day its easy as that .