My friend wants to redo his system, but is not looking to go overboard with any JL or Alpine products, as they are a little out of his price range.

He bought a 5 channel eclipse amp that was broken.

What are your opinions on the best way to power 4 speakers and a sub for under 500 bucks. I suggested JBL or kenwood, but I am just curious as to what everyone else thinks

Thanks

 

what gear is he going to use? and how much power does he want?

 

tuan209 is absolutely correct - this question can't be answered well if we don't know what the source unit is (Aftermarket or OE? Navi?) or the speakers (factory? What size subs? etc.)

For a $500 or less, 5-channel amp, I'd be inclined to use the Alpine MRV-F450. I like how the crossovers work - there's a lot to work with and this makes the system much easier to tune.

But a lot depends on your subs.

 

I must agree with elduderino......that alpine amp is perfect. The four channel section sounds great, my only concearn is the sub channel is lacking the proper power for alot of sub choices. But you could run a decent 10" sub off of it

 

Alpine CDA-9830 Head Unit
Eclipse SP8952 5 1/4" front speakers
Eclipse SP8992 6x9 rear speakers
Eclipse SW8122 Sub

He had an Eclipse PA5532 - 5 Channel amp but when we hooked it up only the 4 speakers worked
We tested the sub output and there was nothing, so we returned the amp.
I feel it is better for him to get two seperate amps, and was looking at JBL and Alpine.
Too many amps are tested at 14v and i want to make sure that the amp runs well at 12 v.

 

I see no reason to go with two amps. You have one 12" woofer. Just outta curiosity, what car is this in? That 12" may need a lot of power... but personally, I think maybe you spent too much on one 12" woofer based on the rest of the system budget. If you want two amps, I think you either need to up the budget or get a cheaper 12".

You could go with a 4-channel and a mono amp, I guess. If you went with the MRP-F240 and MRP-M350 you're under $500... but you're scraping the bottom of the entry-level barrel, and you get no more power.

Every worthwhile amp maker specs both at 12 and 14.4V. Check the Alpine 5-CH specs:

MAX Power (at 14.4V,EIAJ)

Bridged 4 ohms : 240W x 2 + 370W x 1
Per channel into 4 ohms : 90W x 4 + 370W x 1
RMS Power (at 12V,20Hz-200Hz)

Bridged 4 ohms : 80W x 2 + 150W x 1
Per channel into 2 ohms : 40W x 4 + 150W x 1
Per channel into 4 ohms : 30W x 4 + 150W x 1
RMS Power (at 14.4V,20Hz-200Hz)

Bridged 4 ohms : 120W x 2 + 200W x 1
Per channel into 2 ohms : 60W x 4 + 200W x 1
Per channel into 4 ohms : 50W x 4 + 200W x 1

As far as JBL goes, I choose to continue to buy into the delusionary idea that some of the engineers that helped James B. Lansing found the pre-eminent sound-reinforcement speaker company in the world taught the new guys something about speakers... but why think that Harman Industries (JBL's parent company) knows how to build a better car amplifier than anyone else? All their engineering goes into OE sound systems.

You'd be better off with Kicker/Rockford/Phoenix/MTX/Xtant/JL Audio/Zapco/MMATS/Hifonics/Directed Audio/PPI than JBL amps.

 

i like 2 amps better because if your 5 channel amps gets messed up you are focked. =D

 

Thanks for the feedback

Obviously I realize it would be better to use JL, however that is out of the question as their amps are out of my friends price range. I use JL in my car and I will never use anything ever again. However my first amp was a rockford and that thing was fried within a month of installation. My other friend has JBL amps in his car and has bench tested the JBL BP600.1 amps himself at about 14v and got a reading of about 680 watts.

I am just looking for a solid 50 x 4 amp with a good solid mono block amp that puts out 200-300 watts. Both of these for around 500 dollars, which once again leads me back to JBL because we are familiar with those amps. I know the JL 250/1 would be perfect, but once again, too much money.
This is NOT for me, if it were, we would not be discussing this at all, I am just trying to help my friend out. He listens to jazz/rock and does not need a JL W6 with a 500/1 mono amp to blow him out of the car. All we are looking for is a solid, reliable amp.

Also Make sure you go check out the mini v2 at www.jlaudio.com. One of the most insane installations i have ever seen in my life.

 

He drives a 1996 or 97 civic hatchback

 

im going to disagree with the alpine amp. i would reccommend the MTX 5 channel amp. the ratings for that alpine amp are in EIAJ witch is roughly 2 times what RMS wattage is. so if it says 90 watts X 4 channels its closer to about 45 watts per channel.
also i like the fact the MTX has a class D sub channel and the fact that is has built in ciruitry that will eliminate clipping of the amp. it will cut the gain back automatically when it detects clipping.

not only that but i can get one for about 300 bux.

 

"the ratings for that alpine amp are in EIAJ witch is roughly 2 times what RMS wattage is. so if it says 90 watts X 4 channels its closer to about 45 watts per channel."

This is exactly my point. I want to be able to see a pdf of the specs of the amp because i dont trust what most of the companies say.

Thanks
I am going to check out the mtx amps

 

it doesnt matter if a sub channel is class A/B or D. Both the Alpine and MTX are OK amps, nothing great. A better 5 channel is the US Amp 5600x. Has DUAL power supplies, separate of Mids and subs, and also has a fully 2 way active xover built in (variable 24db). The amp is rated at:

75x4 + 200x1 @4ohms
80x4 + 250x1 @3ohms
90x4 + 300x1 @2ohms

Those numbers are HIGHLY conversatives. Most of the better amps are underrated. I say they are about 25%-30% underrated. The amp retails for 700, but could be had new for 500 and used for about 300 or 350. For more info visit http://www.usamps.com/

 

I would say that your paranoia about how major brand names rate their amps is silly. Every reputable maker rates their high-end line conservatively.

You also seem to have a lot of equipment go out on you - my tech-support instincts are telling me that you seem to be the common denominator. You know how many name-brand amps a professional installer has to install before he finds TWO bad ones?


A bench test is fairly meaningless unless your friend has a LOT of complex test gear and some big honking load resistors... and how many watts can be generated on a test tone is irrelevant.

As many have said, there are so many reputable amps that you can't screw this one up... and if he listens to jazz and rock you don't need a ton of power on that 12".

BTW, there are many reports (which I had been ignorant about until recently) of Class D amps interfering with FM reception.

 

you guys are soo silly....hahaha

btw....more power is never a bad thing however. more power to the subs = more output. more power to mids/tweets = more dynamic sound.

also if you ever get a chance to test out a us amps next to those alpine or mtx youll know how much more underrated those things are. there are better stuff out there for the money. just gotta do alil research.

 

More power usually isn't a bad thing... but it's often not cost-effective, depending on your objectives.

Yep, he's right: Doubling the amount of power going to your subs will cause them to be louder... +3dB louder.

BTW, 3dB is the smallest amount of volume change that humans can hear as a volume change. When there are changes in volume that are less than three dB, we hear them as tonal changes, not changes in how loud the sound is. (or, your friends will say "Hey, that sounds different", not "Wow, dude, your new amp is louder!")

If you want your subs to be louder, just make sure you buy an amp at least twice as powerful as your old one... or more.

Advocating a product is fine... but if you have to do it by trashing other products, that's what's really silly. There are some brands that I like and some brands taht I don't... but if they made total crap, they'd be out of business. And some are, and some are close... but neither Alpine (which I like) nor MTX (which I don't, much) are close to that. (Rockford... that's a good question... check their stock report).

 

"I would say that your paranoia about how major brand names rate their amps is silly. Every reputable maker rates their high-end line conservatively."

That is just not true at all. JL Amps put out consistant wattage no matter what, which is why they are so friggen expensive. You can go to sites such as alpine and they will tell you that the amp is 350x1 tested at 14v and only 250x1 tested at 12v, but at least they tell you that. Autobahn does the same, but to the extreme, and there is no possible way of reaching the wattage they say it has. I want documentation proving that the amp puts out what it says it does or at least close to what it says.

 

This all leads me back to the first question. I dont need an explaination, I just want to know what a good reliable 4 channel and mono amp is to put in his car. Like I said before if it were up to me JL all the way.

 

Im not in anyway thrashing any brands, if you are referring to me. All Im saying is that there are better buys out there. When I first looked into upgrading my tsx audio system I too wanted a 5 channel amp, and got the chance to test a few out. I tested the Alpine, MTX, and a few higher end products (US Amps, Tru, Helix, and Audison.). From experience with working with them I can tell you that there is a difference in power, but there is also a difference in price tag. The Alpine and MTX are a solid pick, but imo they do pretty close to their rated numbers. The others far exceed it.

 

Avionixx are clearing out some amps on ebay that could be had for dirt cheap. You can get the 800.4 + 1200.2 for around 420 shipped. These are class T amps. The 800.4 puts out around 125x4 @ 4ohms I believe. I read a review on the 1200.2 and it is said to put out 1800w rms into 4ohms mono. My friend has one and it certainly sounds like 1kw+ amp. bahahaha

 

Abrams, you may want to do some research about how amps work, and how power supplies work. I think you may have a misunderstanding (probably helped along by a salesperson at some point).

The "power supply" in an amp has some degree of "regulation". Alpine amps are somewhat loosely regulated (most 12V amps are, but with the V12 amp line some years ago Alpine started trying to make a "feature" out of it.) What that means (oversimplified) is that to a point, they develop more power out with more voltage in. That's NOT good or bad... it's just how they work.

Highly-regulated amplifiers don't do that much. They tend to make the same amount of power at any input voltage, down to some point where they probably shut off entirely. The guy at JL Audio who is responsible for their amp line, Jeff Scoon, is one of the founders of Precision Power and the founder of Xtant, and after he had to sell Xtant to MTX, he eventually went to JL. He is a big believer in fully-regulated amps (he is also one of the nicest and most professional guys in the 12V biz).

Making an amp "fully" regulated makes it more expensive, btw, which is why most 12V amps aren't.

I personally prefer fully regulated amps - if I can fit them in the system budget. I really liked the xtant 3150 and 3300, for example. And I think JL amps are probably very good (although I haven't used one yet, I was thinking about one for my own car in the next system).

But just because some manufacturer uses an loosely-regulated power supply design does not mean they are lying to you, it doesn't mean that they are trying to fool you or rip you off - it just means they are trying to sell an amp for less money- so that people who don't want to pay for "full"-regulation can afford an amp (like your friend).

Lastly, just because a company uses full regulation doesn't mean that their amp is automatically "better" - there are many design choices that go into an amp. Not a knock on JL... but, again, if you understand what you're dealing with you won't be so paranoid.

 

Abram...I wouldnt worry too much about amps. Just get the Avionixx and spend most of your money on speakers and proper application.

 

My second system that i installed in my car was all xtant amps. I like their 4 channel amp but the 300.1 mono amp i bought blew after about a year of use. I called the store up and they took it back and sent me a JL 250/1 which i sold. The store told me that due to the amount of problems they had with xtant mono amps they were no longer selling them and that is why they sent me a jl amp that was close to the power.

 

Again this is not for me

if you wanna see what i have in my car take a look
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/394081/2

as for that xtant 4 channel amp, I want my amps to match and i recently purchased a JL 300/4 for my speakers. The xtant is going to be removed this weekend and replaced.

 

he already bought the eclipse speakers and they are installed in his car
they worked with the 5 channel amp but the sub output was blown.

 

Ok
It sounds like everyone is trying to get into a pissing contest here and that is not why I posted this question. So lets forget about regulated and unregulated amps because regulated amps are not in the price range. Lets forget about 5 channel amps unless they have dual powersuppies. Also I am
taking only new proudcts, nothing from ebay or anything like that.

Right now my two ideas are for this JBL P80.4 at $169.00
http://www.woofersetc.com/product.asp?0=310&1=311&3=102
and the BP300.1 at also $169.00
http://www.woofersetc.com/product.asp?0=310&1=311&3=99.

Now, I know these are old amps and i know they are not the best. But right now i
am at about $380 with shipping and that is running the 2 ohm sub at 300 and
the 4 ohm speakers at 40 watts which i think should sound good. This leads me back to my first question. Can any one recommend any amps with links so i can find them that will come in under my $460 shipped price range with about the same wattage.

Thanks for any help that anyone can provide and sorry about starting so many arguments

 

US Acoustics USB-4085 (85x4) and USB-600D (300x1) have been often recommended for budget systems on many sound forums. The 3 year warrenty doesn't hurt either. Both would total $280 from Crutchfield.com. Haven't heard them myself, though.

(tuan209, you're suddenly elusive via PM. any word on those focals?)

 

dave,

i pm back earlier today....did u get it? let me know

 

Abrams, when you ask for opinions in a public forum, don't be surprised if people disagree with each other. Part of being an adult citizen is sorting out what you believe and what you don't. Advice is like alcohol - doesn't affect you unless you use it.

Thank you for clearly stating what you want specific advice on... it seems that the discussion helped you get clear on the question that you really wanted to ask in the first place.

And you don't have to take responsibility for posters stating divergent opinions... its' not like you caused anything, dude. Good luck with your friends system.

 

Thanks for all the info. I appreciate eveyones opinion.

 

Hey, is that sub DVC or single?

If it's single 4 ohm, a stereo amp bridged mono will give you more power than a mono amp.

If it's a DVC with two 4 ohm voice coils, then the mono amp is better.