Who Has Actually Purchased a Type-S
#122
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The Type-S has its weak points for sure (the insane weight easily being the biggest detraction for me personally), but every single time someone dares bring up what the car does well the inevitable "it's slower than X", "it's not as fast as Y", "it's more expensive than Z" "it's new so reliability will suck" "weight negates SHAWD" etc immediately follow. I really need to visit an Audi forum to see if people lambast the S4 over how "inferior" it is to the C43 and m340i.
They have the recognized tier one product lines that Acura wants be be the member of. Was a stated corporate goal with the introduction of the larger TL 4G cars. Case with Acura is they incessantly advertise against the 3 German brands. So they set up the game & others will come to play in the forum.
#123
AZ Community Team
I expect its because the three brands don't really advertise against each other in their corporate marketing strategy. Or if the do its very rare, I remember a good but short live series between MB & BMW. So it seems like the various forums tend follow that trend.
They have the recognized tier one product lines that Acura wants be be the member of. Was a stated corporate goal with the introduction of the larger TL 4G cars. Case with Acura is they incessantly advertise against the 3 German brands. So they set up the game & others will come to play in the forum.
They have the recognized tier one product lines that Acura wants be be the member of. Was a stated corporate goal with the introduction of the larger TL 4G cars. Case with Acura is they incessantly advertise against the 3 German brands. So they set up the game & others will come to play in the forum.
And BMW and MB have had a "friendly" rivary for many years and shown in their advertising.
But in terms of BMW's or MB or Audi's in direct Acura advertisements are there any? As far as I know there are Acura marketing comparison video's but they do not qualify in mass media advertising IMO. Is there a actual Acura ad in TV video or mass media print with a German competitor in it? I thought Lexus did a long time ago, but haven't seen anything recently
There are certainly Acura comparison videos on their website but that's not advertising. I've never seen any of them on TV or print, do they do lots of comparison marketing (video's and print) with the PR group oh yeah. But that's not advertising, that's marketing and product positioning. If you find any, please post them.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 07-20-2021 at 04:50 PM.
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TypeSDreams (07-20-2021)
#124
The only thing mentioned here are price and reliability, both of which have been debunked. The real laughing matter can be summarized in one iconic piece that was added to the Type-S, that stupid x-brace in the trunk. For me, that's the single piece that removes any credibility to Acura's work, as if the trunk is able save the handling when weight and transmission reaction times are themselves iffy.
How is stiffening up the chassis stupid? Every review I've seen lauds the TLX-S as one of the best handling 4000 lb cars in existence.
I expect its because the three brands don't really advertise against each other in their corporate marketing strategy. Or if the do its very rare, I remember a good but short live series between MB & BMW. So it seems like the various forums tend follow that trend.
They have the recognized tier one product lines that Acura wants be be the member of. Was a stated corporate goal with the introduction of the larger TL 4G cars. Case with Acura is they incessantly advertise against the 3 German brands. So they set up the game & others will come to play in the forum.
Even AMG has only become a serious M competitor recently. As recently as the 90's MB was almost exclusively a "status symbol" luxury car for dentists and wealthy elderly people. And many purists have bemoaned the mighty 3 series cars shift away from strengths like steering feel, manual transmissions, sportier suspensions, etc.
Every sports sedan brings something to the table, and I still think the Type-S has a winning formula of great handling, beautiful looks, good powertrain, and a solid value, despite its oft-repeated weaknesses.
....anyway apologies for derailing the topic, congrats to all the new Type-S owners!
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Legend2TL (08-26-2021)
#125
Burning Brakes
What?? Neither have been "debunked". Honda/Acura have generally been consistently highly ranked for quality/reliability, and Acura ranks well above Audi in JD Power's dependability survey. Just because it's a brand new car doesn't mean things will suddenly change. Also it's a undebatable fact that a Type-S costs less than a similarly equipped S4. Some dealers have mark-ups, but others don't. Once the aura of the reborn Type-S nameplate wears off and production ramps up over the next year, I'd bet that all dealers will be charging MSRP.
How is stiffening up the chassis stupid? Every review I've seen lauds the TLX-S as one of the best handling 4000 lb cars in existence.
How is stiffening up the chassis stupid? Every review I've seen lauds the TLX-S as one of the best handling 4000 lb cars in existence.
There goes the "similarly equipped" theory, when Type-S can't match the models. From the dyno numbers, you're also getting less power; hence the lower price.
Everyone lauds the Type-S as being the heaviest and slowest out of the bunch. That x-brace does jack to help besides adding even more weight. Why don't the others have a handicapped trunk, because Acura got lazy with minimal structural changes versus TLX 2.0. Or maybe, just maybe ... it's too freakin long for no reason.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 07-21-2021 at 10:16 PM.
#126
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It's funny you say that since I can almost guarantee you that most BMW and M-B fans don't consider Audi to be "tier one", and there are many valid reasons why: the stigma of a "fancy VW", Audi is actually relatively new to the luxury segment (you could legit argue that Acura has been producing luxury cars longer than Audi), FWD architecture (or front-biased from AWD) from top to bottom of the sedan lineup, cheaper etc.
#127
I think the weight disadvantage can be attributed to the heavy (pun intended) use of steel vs aluminum due to cost advantage. Acura won't be able to overcome this unless somehow they luck into a bauxite mine not owned by ALCOA. LOL.
#128
Racer
Just got an update from the dealer. Car looks to be build the first week of August. They said deliveries for every model have been sporadic lately, so hopefully things stay on track for getting it next month. Only risk is whether I can get enough of a heads up to give me time to try and sell my old car privately before the new one comes in. I can go a few weeks without a car, but not months. Their trade-in offer is @ $2k less than what I should be able to get private party.
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#129
#130
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Just got an update from the dealer. Car looks to be build the first week of August. They said deliveries for every model have been sporadic lately, so hopefully things stay on track for getting it next month. Only risk is whether I can get enough of a heads up to give me time to try and sell my old car privately before the new one comes in. I can go a few weeks without a car, but not months. Their trade-in offer is @ $2k less than what I should be able to get private party.
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#131
6G TLX-S
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#133
It’s probably not a 1K difference as you’d have to subtract out the value of the standard ones installed to get the net increase.
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#134
It's funny you say that since I can almost guarantee you that most BMW and M-B fans don't consider Audi to be "tier one", and there are many valid reasons why: the stigma of a "fancy VW", Audi is actually relatively new to the luxury segment (you could legit argue that Acura has been producing luxury cars longer than Audi), FWD architecture (or front-biased from AWD) from top to bottom of the sedan lineup, cheaper etc.
Audi 200 Turbo...it was a rocketship in its days (1979)
The successful 1980 Audi Quattro (World Rally Champion) was priced at Porsche 911 Carrera territory
The 200 Quattro of the mid 1980s was a spaceship sedan, AWD and one of the fastest in the world, it had a top speed higher than the BMW M5 of that time.
1988 Audi V8
The limited production Audi Quattro Sport in 1985 was priced at Ferrari Testarossa level and it could accelerate like a 911 Turbo...
None of these cars shared VW components. What Acura was producing in the 1980s?? Tarted up Accords....
Last edited by 4G-Lover; 07-22-2021 at 03:20 PM.
#135
#136
AZ Community Team
Where I agree that Audi is still not quite at BMW and, in particular MB, level in terms of public perceptions they been making expensive luxury cars well before Acura (I owned couple of them in the 1980)
Audi 200 Turbo...it was a rocketship in its days (1979)
The successful 1980 Audi Quattro (World Rally Champion) was priced at Porsche 911 Carrera territory
The 200 Quattro of the mid 1980s was a spaceship sedan, AWD and one of the fastest in the world, it had a top speed higher than the BMW M5 of that time.
1988 Audi V8
The limited production Audi Quattro Sport in 1985 was priced at Ferrari Testarossa level and it could accelerate like a 911 Turbo...
None of these cars shared VW components. What Acura was producing in the 1980s?? Tarted up Accords....
Audi 200 Turbo...it was a rocketship in its days (1979)
The successful 1980 Audi Quattro (World Rally Champion) was priced at Porsche 911 Carrera territory
The 200 Quattro of the mid 1980s was a spaceship sedan, AWD and one of the fastest in the world, it had a top speed higher than the BMW M5 of that time.
1988 Audi V8
The limited production Audi Quattro Sport in 1985 was priced at Ferrari Testarossa level and it could accelerate like a 911 Turbo...
None of these cars shared VW components. What Acura was producing in the 1980s?? Tarted up Accords....
It's common to see both logo's on factory OEM parts too. Nothing wrong with that, Audi and VW have shared parts from the 70's to current times. Also owned a '76 Audi and a friend had two as well.
And a Acura Legend was not an tarted up Accord, in Japan it was the Honda Legend. But while sharing common parts like the VW and Audi did. It's major components (chassis, suspension, motor which would eventually get into a mid-90's Accord )
One major difference though between 1980's Audi and Acura. Acura's lasted and were dependable
As to the top speed claim, again no. E28 M5 was faster than a 200 Quatro by 6MPH.
My brother had a E24 M6, Audi Turbo 20V 5 was cute technically but pales compared to the mighty M88/3 used in the M5/M6.
https://fastestlaps.com/models/audi-200-quattro-20v
https://fastestlaps.com/models/bmw-m5-e28
Last edited by Legend2TL; 07-22-2021 at 03:52 PM.
#137
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#138
AFRAIK, all of those Audi's shared some parts with VW, from hood latches (even a Porsche 928 used the same hood latch as a VW Dasher) to hall effect ignition modules and all sorts of various parts bin engineering.
It's common to see both logo's on factory OEM parts too. Nothing wrong with that, Audi and VW have shared parts from the 70's to current times. Also owned a '76 Audi and a friend had two as well.
And a Acura Legend was not an tarted up Accord, in Japan it was the Honda Legend. But while sharing common parts like the VW and Audi did. It's major components (chassis, suspension, motor which would eventually get into a mid-90's Accord )
One major difference though between 1980's Audi and Acura. Acura's lasted and were dependable
As to the top speed claim, again no. E28 M5 was faster than a 200 Quatro by 6MPH.
My brother had a E24 M6, Audi Turbo 20V 5 was cute technically but pales compared to the mighty M88/3 used in the M5/M6.
https://fastestlaps.com/models/audi-200-quattro-20v
https://fastestlaps.com/models/bmw-m5-e28
It's common to see both logo's on factory OEM parts too. Nothing wrong with that, Audi and VW have shared parts from the 70's to current times. Also owned a '76 Audi and a friend had two as well.
And a Acura Legend was not an tarted up Accord, in Japan it was the Honda Legend. But while sharing common parts like the VW and Audi did. It's major components (chassis, suspension, motor which would eventually get into a mid-90's Accord )
One major difference though between 1980's Audi and Acura. Acura's lasted and were dependable
As to the top speed claim, again no. E28 M5 was faster than a 200 Quatro by 6MPH.
My brother had a E24 M6, Audi Turbo 20V 5 was cute technically but pales compared to the mighty M88/3 used in the M5/M6.
https://fastestlaps.com/models/audi-200-quattro-20v
https://fastestlaps.com/models/bmw-m5-e28
If you mean sharing some modules or components yes but these cars did not share VW chassis, suspension or engines...the Audi straight 5 was an Audi exclusive and so was obviously the V8. The entry/mid level Audi did use VW engines (currently is the same)
The 200 turbo was absolutely faster (Italian magazine road test) than the E28 M5...few mph but it was (the E28 could not get even close to the claimed 250 km/h) ....the E28 was a brick aerodynamically compared to the Audi 100/200 which was the most aerodynamic sedan of its time. Sure the M5 had a better acceleration.
Back to my point, Audi has definitely more heritage than Acura and made high end luxury and sport cars for longer.
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#139
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If you mean sharing some modules or components yes but these cars did not share VW chassis, suspension or engines...the Audi straight 5 was an Audi exclusive and so was obviously the V8. The entry/mid level Audi did use VW engines (currently is the same)
The 200 turbo was absolutely faster (Italian magazine road test) than the E28 M5...few mph but it was (the E28 could not get even close to the claimed 250 km/h) ....the E28 was a brick aerodynamically compared to the Audi 100/200 which was the most aerodynamic sedan of its time. Sure the M5 had a better acceleration.
Back to my point, Audi has definitely more heritage than Acura and made high end luxury and sport cars for longer.
The 200 turbo was absolutely faster (Italian magazine road test) than the E28 M5...few mph but it was (the E28 could not get even close to the claimed 250 km/h) ....the E28 was a brick aerodynamically compared to the Audi 100/200 which was the most aerodynamic sedan of its time. Sure the M5 had a better acceleration.
Back to my point, Audi has definitely more heritage than Acura and made high end luxury and sport cars for longer.
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BEAR-AvHistory (07-22-2021)
#141
AZ Community Team
If you mean sharing some modules or components yes but these cars did not share VW chassis, suspension or engines...the Audi straight 5 was an Audi exclusive and so was obviously the V8. The entry/mid level Audi did use VW engines (currently is the same)
The 200 turbo was absolutely faster (Italian road test) than the E28 M5...few mph but it was....the E28 was a brick aerodynamically compared to the Audi 100/200 which was the most aerodynamic sedan of its time.
Back to my point, Audi has definitely more reliability and poor quality woes than Acura and made high end luxury and sport cars for longer.
The 200 turbo was absolutely faster (Italian road test) than the E28 M5...few mph but it was....the E28 was a brick aerodynamically compared to the Audi 100/200 which was the most aerodynamic sedan of its time.
Back to my point, Audi has definitely more reliability and poor quality woes than Acura and made high end luxury and sport cars for longer.
I know many former Audi owners from two who had godawful 200's who each successfully sued Audi. Neighbor also had a 2G A8 which was another awful car, add in my neighbor who had a A6 allroad quattro again just simply awful as it broke down so often. Until the last decade Audi was the Land Rover of German auto makers. It took Porsche and their newfound quality system to straighten Audi out to what they've become today. But make no mistake, Audi made some nice cars from '70's to '00's that broke down frequently.
As to what was faster I showed two links, if you have some links for speed then please post them. I found 150MPH for 200 Turbo and 156MPH for E24 M5.
The late 90's 1.8T is shared openly between Audi and VW. I've worked on as well as replaced a turbo on a friends, and learned from that experience how Audi and VW are very often linked.
Sometimes they're separate, the V8 is a good case in point.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 07-22-2021 at 04:28 PM.
#142
Some Guy Who Loves Cars
That's where Lexus and Acura in the 80s and 90s had an opening to come in as strong competitors in performance and reliability. I know of several people who have driven nothing but Lexus since buying their first one in the 90s. And Acura has that sort of customer loyalty too with the MDX (sedans maybe not so much after the mid 10s).
#143
6G TLX-S
During the 1980's, the North American Audi brand had significantly tarnished due to the "unintended acceleration" fiasco with Audi vehicles, and it had almost brought the North American Audi brand down on its knees.
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#144
Some Guy Who Loves Cars
Every once in a while, I see a Peugeot, Renault or Sterling on the road. I wonder how close Audi was to suffering the same fate in the USA as those.
#145
FIFY
I know many former Audi owners from two who had godawful 200's who each successfully sued Audi. Neighbor also had a 2G A8 which was another awful car, add in my neighbor who had a A6 allroad quattro again just simply awful as it broke down so often. Until the last decade Audi was the Land Rover of German auto makers. It took Porsche and their newfound quality system to straighten Audi out to what they've become today. But make no mistake, Audi made some nice cars from '70's to '00's that broke down frequently.
As to what was faster I showed two links, if you have some links for speed then please post them. I found 150MPH for 200 Turbo and 156MPH for E24 M5.
The late 90's 1.8T is shared openly between Audi and VW. I've worked on as well as replaced a turbo on a friends, and learned from that experience how Audi and VW are very often linked.
Sometimes they're separate, the V8 is a good case in point.
I know many former Audi owners from two who had godawful 200's who each successfully sued Audi. Neighbor also had a 2G A8 which was another awful car, add in my neighbor who had a A6 allroad quattro again just simply awful as it broke down so often. Until the last decade Audi was the Land Rover of German auto makers. It took Porsche and their newfound quality system to straighten Audi out to what they've become today. But make no mistake, Audi made some nice cars from '70's to '00's that broke down frequently.
As to what was faster I showed two links, if you have some links for speed then please post them. I found 150MPH for 200 Turbo and 156MPH for E24 M5.
The late 90's 1.8T is shared openly between Audi and VW. I've worked on as well as replaced a turbo on a friends, and learned from that experience how Audi and VW are very often linked.
Sometimes they're separate, the V8 is a good case in point.
The bad quality reputation it seems that it was earned in North America, in Europe, for some reasons, we did not have the same serious problems and Audi were generally regarded of high quality.
As for the 200 - E28 M5 comparison, I do not have any links but, if memory serves me well, neither were capable of reaching 150 MPH.
#146
Are we all on the same page?
I thought I clicked on “Who has actually purchased a Type-S,” somehow I was redirected to a page with a bunch of chatter from users that have not purchased a Type S talking about cars that are not Type S… and then patiently waiting to be attacked for bringing back up the Type S.
Anybody in the market for a 2021 Apex Blue Pearl/ Red Leather Type S? It’s a turbo charged 3.0L V6, 20” upgraded wheels, all weather floor mats - $62k OBO. By the way it’s an Acura…
I thought I clicked on “Who has actually purchased a Type-S,” somehow I was redirected to a page with a bunch of chatter from users that have not purchased a Type S talking about cars that are not Type S… and then patiently waiting to be attacked for bringing back up the Type S.
Anybody in the market for a 2021 Apex Blue Pearl/ Red Leather Type S? It’s a turbo charged 3.0L V6, 20” upgraded wheels, all weather floor mats - $62k OBO. By the way it’s an Acura…
Last edited by Ghostof TypeS Past; 07-22-2021 at 10:04 PM.
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#148
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#149
Some Guy Who Loves Cars
I'm all for getting this back on topic. I was enjoying a brief moment of alignment amongst us while we were trashing Audi reliability.
What made you feel unwelcomed? The only toxicity here is to rebut when people say dumb stuff or want to argue on a personal level. If you're looking for a Type S support group, I heard there is a Facebook fanboy club you could join.
As for this forum, think of it more like a garage, but without the oil rags, cursing and cat calls. For whatever reason, your post made me imagine a clean cut millennial wearing Ray Bans and a pink Polo shirt walking into the back of a shop full of a dozen guys in overalls wrenching away on cars on lifts, oil on their hands and cigarettes in their mouths, and yelling, "Hey, why can't you be more supportive of me!?" because your oil change is taking too long.
As for this forum, think of it more like a garage, but without the oil rags, cursing and cat calls. For whatever reason, your post made me imagine a clean cut millennial wearing Ray Bans and a pink Polo shirt walking into the back of a shop full of a dozen guys in overalls wrenching away on cars on lifts, oil on their hands and cigarettes in their mouths, and yelling, "Hey, why can't you be more supportive of me!?" because your oil change is taking too long.
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#150
Now that indisputable evidence has come to light that it doesn't perform any better than the numbers suggest, and behind all of its competitors, the fanboys have recessed into their private FB groups and the masses of undue praise have disappeared from public forums.
Most of the toxic comments are from pent up frustration and "I told you so"-ism. Juvenile? Yes. Satisfying? Also yes.
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#151
If you're just joining the conversation now, I can see how it appears that way. Problem was, this time last year, there were plenty of people here (and all over the internet) saying that this thing was going to dominate the segment. Even despite power and curb weights being unveiled, nope, they were saying Honda is able to spin magic engines that defy physics.
Now that indisputable evidence has come to light that it doesn't perform any better than the numbers suggest, and behind all of its competitors, the fanboys have recessed into their private FB groups and the masses of undue praise have disappeared from public forums.
Most of the toxic comments are from pent up frustration and "I told you so"-ism. Juvenile? Yes. Satisfying? Also yes.
Now that indisputable evidence has come to light that it doesn't perform any better than the numbers suggest, and behind all of its competitors, the fanboys have recessed into their private FB groups and the masses of undue praise have disappeared from public forums.
Most of the toxic comments are from pent up frustration and "I told you so"-ism. Juvenile? Yes. Satisfying? Also yes.
I agree, and I think it will. The fact they're stringing out the release and info on it so long has to be disconcerting. It's not a good sign IMO. They're treating it like it's a halo car, and I think they're going to look to get the same kind of money out of it. Aiming way above their competition and towards the M-cars, which they will absolutely fail at. Maybe a touch over 400HP, even tho the M340i already makes more than that. It's either going to be priced ridiculously or be completely underwhelming. I'm gonna quote this very post when everyone is pissed off about one or the other once full details get released.
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#154
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#156
AZ Community Team
The best was someone apologizing for your toxicity comment that it's only their responses to "dump stuff" then creates "The TLX Sucks - Especially Type S"
oh the irony is lost on them
Last edited by Legend2TL; 07-26-2021 at 01:29 PM.
#157
AZ Community Team
We were not talking about reliability here.....(I owned two 200 and I had little issues with it but nothing major)
The bad quality reputation it seems that it was earned in North America, in Europe, for some reasons, we did not have the same serious problems and Audi were generally regarded of high quality.
As for the 200 - E28 M5 comparison, I do not have any links but, if memory serves me well, neither were capable of reaching 150 MPH.
The bad quality reputation it seems that it was earned in North America, in Europe, for some reasons, we did not have the same serious problems and Audi were generally regarded of high quality.
As for the 200 - E28 M5 comparison, I do not have any links but, if memory serves me well, neither were capable of reaching 150 MPH.
Even the official BMW M5 spec said the top speed was 155
bmwe34m5.com
https://www.encycarpedia.com/us/bmw/85-m5-e28-sedan
#158
Some Guy Who Loves Cars
I never apologized for anything I, nor anyone else, said here on this thread, nor elsewhere on this forum, to make Karen von Snowflake feel unwelcomed here. That sounded like something I wouldn't say, so I went back to reread that I asked why he felt unwelcomed and suggested a fanboy club instead if we hurt his feelings.
Maybe you're thinking of someone else? Please feel free to elaborate on this load of irony you think you observed.
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