Type-S is almost here.
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 3
Likes: 1
From: Bay Area
My local Acura dealer (San Jose area) asked for $10K ADM for Type-S pre-order even they don't know the MSRP.
I'm not in a hurry to buy one as it's for my wife, but will it be available at MSRP sometime soon?
I got my Ford Focus RS back in 2016 from Oregon as local Ford dealers asked for $5k to $15K ADM at that time.
It was fun experience taking a red-eye train from CA to Oregon for picking it up, but I hope I don't have to do it again for the Type-S this time.
I'm not in a hurry to buy one as it's for my wife, but will it be available at MSRP sometime soon?
I got my Ford Focus RS back in 2016 from Oregon as local Ford dealers asked for $5k to $15K ADM at that time.
It was fun experience taking a red-eye train from CA to Oregon for picking it up, but I hope I don't have to do it again for the Type-S this time.
SH-AWD TECH
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 65
Likes: 17
Over a yr ago I read a great article by someone who raced cars...but, not famous....and he talked about how to truly appreciate Acura's AWD system. The average person
will never learn to appreciate what it can do on dry roads, since they will be too afraid to "push it" at speed in hard sweeping turns. He said that's where the system can fully
be appreciated.
will never learn to appreciate what it can do on dry roads, since they will be too afraid to "push it" at speed in hard sweeping turns. He said that's where the system can fully
be appreciated.
On freeway on/off ramps around here, I've managed to give myself a minor abdominal cramp from the G-force on some of those SH-AWD turns.
It's amusing when I drive rentals, even with standard AWD & manage to squeal the tires or lose traction on hard corners. I just say to myself, my TLX wouldn't have done that.
Pro
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 521
Likes: 190
My local Acura dealer (San Jose area) asked for $10K ADM for Type-S pre-order even they don't know the MSRP.
I'm not in a hurry to buy one as it's for my wife, but will it be available at MSRP sometime soon?
I got my Ford Focus RS back in 2016 from Oregon as local Ford dealers asked for $5k to $15K ADM at that time.
It was fun experience taking a red-eye train from CA to Oregon for picking it up, but I hope I don't have to do it again for the Type-S this time.
I'm not in a hurry to buy one as it's for my wife, but will it be available at MSRP sometime soon?
I got my Ford Focus RS back in 2016 from Oregon as local Ford dealers asked for $5k to $15K ADM at that time.
It was fun experience taking a red-eye train from CA to Oregon for picking it up, but I hope I don't have to do it again for the Type-S this time.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,120
Likes: 750
From: Rock Hill, SC
I've told people don't listen to nothing the dealers are saying until the car is on the lot. A lot of post I've seen on FB with people asking sales consultants are Acura they have no clue about pricing or mark up. Put down your deposit(make sure it's refundable). If they mark it up, get your deposit back and walk away. I'm not paying mark up for a mass production model.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 384
Likes: 164
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
I'm wondering what the actual difference in Acura's production cost is between the 4-cylinder and the type-s V6. That would be helpful in calculating a reasonable purchase price for the car: Market price for a 4 cylinder Advance + the additional production cost.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,674
Likes: 2,600
From: Raleigh, NC - USA
Acura will price the Type-S for as much as they think they can sell it for. Dealers who have been doing poorly with market it up for as much as they think they can get.
Just to give you a thought on engine costs. My V8 DOHC 32V 5.0L all alloy engine I put in the car I built was $8500 retail in the box from FORD Racing. Its reasonable to expect that a V6 at production cost vs my retail cost for Acura will be quite a bit less. Not a major hit on a $50,000+ car probability less than 10% of the retail price of the car.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; May 14, 2021 at 07:26 PM.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 384
Likes: 164
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,120
Likes: 750
From: Rock Hill, SC
Dealing with customers who I show invoice to on vehicles, that won't make you happy either. 99% of the people we've shown the invoice to, they still think we have another $3k-4k to come off the car. That 1% actually say "Ok. I'll pay $2k over that because I know Terence needs to feed his family and the company have to make money." You knowing the production cost isn't going to make you want to pay any more or less than the car. If the production cost was the same or even $3k more, are you going to pay the extra $10k over the Advance model for the Type S model? I doubt you would.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 384
Likes: 164
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
That's irrelevant. Price is based on demand & the ability of the prospective customer universe to pay for the car not the spread of production costs between the cars. The only reasonable price is the one you will pay & be happy with. That's why FORD loves the F150. Its a cash cow & the most profitable thing they sell with people willing to spend $29,000 Base F150 or $76,000 for top of the line.
Acura will price the Type-S for as much as they think they can sell it for. Dealers who have been doing poorly with market it up for as much as they think they can get.
Just to give you a thought on engine costs. My V8 DOHC 32V 5.0L all alloy engine I put in the car I built was $8500 retail in the box from FORD Racing. Its reasonable to expect that a V6 at production cost vs my retail cost for Acura will be quite a bit less. Not a major hit on a $50,000+ car probability less than 10% of the retail price of the car.
Acura will price the Type-S for as much as they think they can sell it for. Dealers who have been doing poorly with market it up for as much as they think they can get.
Just to give you a thought on engine costs. My V8 DOHC 32V 5.0L all alloy engine I put in the car I built was $8500 retail in the box from FORD Racing. Its reasonable to expect that a V6 at production cost vs my retail cost for Acura will be quite a bit less. Not a major hit on a $50,000+ car probability less than 10% of the retail price of the car.
Dealing with customers who I show invoice to on vehicles, that won't make you happy either. 99% of the people we've shown the invoice to, they still think we have another $3k-4k to come off the car. That 1% actually say "Ok. I'll pay $2k over that because I know Terence needs to feed his family and the company have to make money." You knowing the production cost isn't going to make you want to pay any more or less than the car. If the production cost was the same or even $3k more, are you going to pay the extra $10k over the Advance model for the Type S model? I doubt you would.
Given that I could reasonably expect to buy a 4-cylinder Advance right now for around 45K, how much more am I willing to pay for the extra zippity doo dah of a similarly appointed type-s? 50K? Perhaps. More than 50K? Not likely.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 158
Likes: 84
Margin targets based on diminished projected volume vis a vis base car?
Racer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 384
Likes: 164
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
What about R&D costs? You dont care about that? Fluxtuation in Dollar/Yen? Transportation costs for the driveline? The extent to which they can ammortize costs across other lines based in similarity and volume?
Margin targets based on diminished projected volume vis a vis base car?
Margin targets based on diminished projected volume vis a vis base car?
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 158
Likes: 84
Yeah lets get a change.org petition together based on our collective analysis so we can tell Acura what MSRP needs to be for their business. Maybe we can subpoena their financials or file a FOIA under business transparency laws to aid in our analysis.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,674
Likes: 2,600
From: Raleigh, NC - USA
What about R&D costs? You dont care about that? Fluxtuation in Dollar/Yen? Transportation costs for the driveline? The extent to which they can ammortize costs across other lines based in similarity and volume?
Margin targets based on diminished projected volume vis a vis base car?
Margin targets based on diminished projected volume vis a vis base car?
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; May 15, 2021 at 11:37 AM.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,674
Likes: 2,600
From: Raleigh, NC - USA
/\ /\ /\ All good valid points, so let's forget about production cost. Dealer cost makes more sense. Even better, let's just go with my irrational, personal comfort level, or as @BEAR-AvHistory says, "The only reasonable price is the one you will pay & be happy with." which is this:
Given that I could reasonably expect to buy a 4-cylinder Advance right now for around 45K, how much more am I willing to pay for the extra zippity doo dah of a similarly appointed type-s? 50K? Perhaps. More than 50K? Not likely.
Given that I could reasonably expect to buy a 4-cylinder Advance right now for around 45K, how much more am I willing to pay for the extra zippity doo dah of a similarly appointed type-s? 50K? Perhaps. More than 50K? Not likely.
Base MSRP difference between the 4 cylinder Z4 & the I6 version is $14,000. They have no problem selling both. All these cars TLX-S, M340 etc are WANTS not NEEDS so there is very little rational decision making on what to buy no matter what is claimed by some. If we were rational & NEEDED a car we would all be riding is a base CIVIC or similar.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; May 15, 2021 at 11:52 AM.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 158
Likes: 84
Gears cranks and various other parts are still sourced from Japan unless they have a foundry here im unaware of.
so will every other Aspec be those colors but get the color you desire, don't worry about pimps/drug dealers in Tiger Eye. Just walk the other direction
Racer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 384
Likes: 164
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
That is your personal decision (comfort level) but in absolute terms this car will cost over $50,000USD as Acura has already said that. Other guys here will jump on it regardless of the price because they WANT it. Still others will sit & compare the OTD price with the OTD price of the German, Korean & Japanese alternatives & bail out. Many will stay with the I4.
Base MSRP difference between the 4 cylinder Z4 & the I6 version is $14,000. They have no problem selling both. All these cars TLX-S, M340 etc are WANTS not NEEDS so there is very little rational decision making on what to buy no matter what is claimed by some. If we were rational & NEEDED a car we would all be riding is a base CIVIC or similar.
Base MSRP difference between the 4 cylinder Z4 & the I6 version is $14,000. They have no problem selling both. All these cars TLX-S, M340 etc are WANTS not NEEDS so there is very little rational decision making on what to buy no matter what is claimed by some. If we were rational & NEEDED a car we would all be riding is a base CIVIC or similar.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,402
Likes: 370
From: Texas Hill Country
I have a long time friend who has bought many cars based upon how good of a deal he got. I’m guessing in the 35 years I’ve known him he has bought at least ten, probably more, vehicles that he has kept for less than a couple of months because he wound up not liking things about them. He has ways of justifying it, but it has cost him a heck of a lot of money.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 384
Likes: 164
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Racer
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 359
Likes: 99
Were they driving too soft? I did not feel transmission shifted as aggressively as we saw in some 2 weeks old video clips from laguna seca.
Styl1n
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 998
Likes: 159
From: NYC-Hollis, Queens
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 73
Likes: 35
My local Acura dealer (San Jose area) asked for $10K ADM for Type-S pre-order even they don't know the MSRP.
I'm not in a hurry to buy one as it's for my wife, but will it be available at MSRP sometime soon?
I got my Ford Focus RS back in 2016 from Oregon as local Ford dealers asked for $5k to $15K ADM at that time.
It was fun experience taking a red-eye train from CA to Oregon for picking it up, but I hope I don't have to do it again for the Type-S this time.
I'm not in a hurry to buy one as it's for my wife, but will it be available at MSRP sometime soon?
I got my Ford Focus RS back in 2016 from Oregon as local Ford dealers asked for $5k to $15K ADM at that time.
It was fun experience taking a red-eye train from CA to Oregon for picking it up, but I hope I don't have to do it again for the Type-S this time.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,674
Likes: 2,600
From: Raleigh, NC - USA
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,120
Likes: 750
From: Rock Hill, SC
So the Civic Hatchback, Si, and Type R will all have manual. Cool!
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,578
Likes: 554
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,402
Likes: 370
From: Texas Hill Country
I read what you said. It’s really not that hard to interpret. You said that Honda’s difference in PRODUCTION cost would be a factor in your decision. How are you now saying that you said PRODUCTION cost is not relevant? Do you really not see your contradiction?
Last edited by jjsC5; May 18, 2021 at 07:55 AM.
®
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 627
Likes: 477
Actually, rotation has been a part of the SH-Awd system on all Acuras for some time. It has been talked about by many testers. The latest version of the system is
even better. Acura has the best AWD system...being a full mechanical system and with the ability to really torque vector so well, that when in a hard turn, the car does
rotate out of the corner very well. This is nothing new for the Type S. It was also well talked about on the A-Spec.
Over a yr ago I read a great article by someone who raced cars...but, not famous....and he talked about how to truly appreciate Acura's AWD system. The average person
will never learn to appreciate what it can do on dry roads, since they will be too afraid to "push it" at speed in hard sweeping turns. He said that's where the system can fully
be appreciated. His reference was..."how well it rotated when pushed really hard." Again, most won't "get it" 'cause they will not be comfortable in pushing that hard....but, with
the proper tires...it would surprise you. I don't remember his name. But, after reading what he had to say...I decided to try it out on my '18 TLX A-Spec. Meaning, I pushed it harder
than I ever had before on a long somewhat tight sweeping on ramp that I had driven on many times. I pushed it faster than I ever had...and WOW....he was right. It was glued to the
road, virtually no body roll and it really powered through that turn. You can actually feel the rotation. I'm not a race car driver....but, have had many high perf. cars. I know that a "pro"
could have taken that ramp at an even faster rate than I did. Yes, I was a "little unsure" of just how fast I could trust it....or me!....if I went "too far."
Most driving with this system appreciate it's ability on roads that are less than ideal...wet, slushy, snow packed, etc. But, his point, and the point on this video was how well the system
will allow the rear to rotate when powered through turns on DRY roads. I have pushed some of my RDX's too....a little...just to feel what it's like on dry roads. You can tell the diff. vs.
other SUV's out there. It's one of the big plusses for the Acura brand...and most don't truly know about it...again, based on what I've shared concerning ability to rotate on dry roads at
higher speeds.
even better. Acura has the best AWD system...being a full mechanical system and with the ability to really torque vector so well, that when in a hard turn, the car does
rotate out of the corner very well. This is nothing new for the Type S. It was also well talked about on the A-Spec.
Over a yr ago I read a great article by someone who raced cars...but, not famous....and he talked about how to truly appreciate Acura's AWD system. The average person
will never learn to appreciate what it can do on dry roads, since they will be too afraid to "push it" at speed in hard sweeping turns. He said that's where the system can fully
be appreciated. His reference was..."how well it rotated when pushed really hard." Again, most won't "get it" 'cause they will not be comfortable in pushing that hard....but, with
the proper tires...it would surprise you. I don't remember his name. But, after reading what he had to say...I decided to try it out on my '18 TLX A-Spec. Meaning, I pushed it harder
than I ever had before on a long somewhat tight sweeping on ramp that I had driven on many times. I pushed it faster than I ever had...and WOW....he was right. It was glued to the
road, virtually no body roll and it really powered through that turn. You can actually feel the rotation. I'm not a race car driver....but, have had many high perf. cars. I know that a "pro"
could have taken that ramp at an even faster rate than I did. Yes, I was a "little unsure" of just how fast I could trust it....or me!....if I went "too far."
Most driving with this system appreciate it's ability on roads that are less than ideal...wet, slushy, snow packed, etc. But, his point, and the point on this video was how well the system
will allow the rear to rotate when powered through turns on DRY roads. I have pushed some of my RDX's too....a little...just to feel what it's like on dry roads. You can tell the diff. vs.
other SUV's out there. It's one of the big plusses for the Acura brand...and most don't truly know about it...again, based on what I've shared concerning ability to rotate on dry roads at
higher speeds.
Dealing with customers who I show invoice to on vehicles, that won't make you happy either. 99% of the people we've shown the invoice to, they still think we have another $3k-4k to come off the car. That 1% actually say "Ok. I'll pay $2k over that because I know Terence needs to feed his family and the company have to make money." You knowing the production cost isn't going to make you want to pay any more or less than the car. If the production cost was the same or even $3k more, are you going to pay the extra $10k over the Advance model for the Type S model? I doubt you would.
Last edited by loki; May 18, 2021 at 04:09 PM.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 384
Likes: 164
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,665
Likes: 709
From: Vancouver, Canada
Can we just get back to rumour, misinformation, and general tomfoolery about the Type S instead?
And on that note, I actually saw a new TLX out in the wild today. There are definitely uglier cars out there. Shame that you can’t get HUD even on the top of the line Type S. Acura marketing executives are really not very bright.
And on that note, I actually saw a new TLX out in the wild today. There are definitely uglier cars out there. Shame that you can’t get HUD even on the top of the line Type S. Acura marketing executives are really not very bright.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 384
Likes: 164
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
6G TLX-S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,228
Likes: 1,181
From: YVR
Styl1n
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 998
Likes: 159
From: NYC-Hollis, Queens
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 843
Likes: 404
If you have to drive in Sport+ mode to get decent performance that's not great unless it's done a lot better than the tlx sport+ mode which was virtually unusable. May have been alright if you didn't have to look down for the mode button and toggle to get to it, by the time you do that you typically don't need it. Not having a shift lever was one of my more major gripes with the TLX V6 A-Spec. Glad to finally have one back that I can drop into sport or manual mode instantly without having to look for a button and take my eyes off the road. Really thought that they would bring back the shift handle for the type-S. Button operation for trans is such a clunky way to do things. Makes a quick k-turn virtually impossible and actually dangerous. Will be interested to see real drivers reviews rather than ones who drive it in sport+ all the time which is not what people do or at least the way Acura designed that mode in the current TLX. Sport+ held the rpms up so high even when you leveled off speed you probably would be lucky to get anything over 18mpg in that mode in daily driving and having the motor running at 3k plus rpms when you're cruising at a steady speed makes little sense.
Last edited by jhb31; May 19, 2021 at 05:01 PM.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 710
Likes: 544
If you have to drive in Sport+ mode to get decent performance that's not great unless it's done a lot better than the tlx sport+ mode which was virtually unusable. May have been alright if you didn't have to look down for the mode button and toggle to get to it, by the time you do that you typically don't need it. Not having a shift lever was one of my more major gripes with the TLX V6 A-Spec. Glad to finally have one back that I can drop into sport or manual mode instantly without having to look for a button and take my eyes off the road. Really thought that they would bring back the shift handle for the type-S. Button operation for trans is such a clunky way to do things. Makes a quick k-turn virtually impossible and actually dangerous. Will be interested to see real drivers reviews rather than ones who drive it in sport+ all the time which is not what people do or at least the way Acura designed that mode in the current TLX. Sport+ held the rpms up so high even when you leveled off speed you probably would be lucky to get anything over 18mpg in that mode in daily driving and having the motor running at 3k plus rpms when you're cruising at a steady speed makes little sense.