TheAcAvenger

'02 Type-S w/ Nav was $33,280, w/o Nav was $30,880. If I recall correctly, I think my '02 w/ Nav sold for about $31,5?
By comparison an '02 Accord V6 EX w/ Leather was $25,300.
A difference of $5.5k-$8k.

'08 Type-S went for $38,225.
By comparison, an '08 Accord V6 EX-L w/ Navi went for $30,260
A difference of $8k.

The Accord is really great now in terms of tech and I think anyone whose bought an Accord/Civic/Insight in the last couple of years would argue that its tech is arguably better/easier to use than Acuras (RDX excluded). So I don't think Acura can push much more than 8k from a tech offering. The Accord Touring has pretty much everything. Definitely has all the self-driving and safety features that people in the TLX market would be looking for. The touring even has a heads up display. If im thinking of tech/feature adds, then you're probably looking at...

• A higher res infotainment screen (like the RDX)
• Acura version of virtual cockpit
• Upgraded radio
• 12-16 way drivers seat and an 8 way passenger seat (really Honda, stop putting 4 way passenger seats in the Accord. That's awful

Those things and the huge power bump will justify the $8k over the already tremendous Accord. Which would bring you to roughly $47k... a number that's been tossed out around here alot. The giant elephant in the room in this comparison though is that Accord vs Type-S never included a drivetrain upgrade. You're looking at $3-4k for that. So I think it's realistic to think the TLX Type-S will start at $47-48k, for a car with Accord level features, but with Acura trimmings, a turbo V6, and AWD.... If you want all of that AND the tech upgrades listed above, you're probably looking at $52ish for a Tech and $55ish for an Advance? Seems fair to me. That keeps them a few thousand below equivalent trim offerings for the S4 which I think should be their target.

The Type-S is going to flop hard if they try to price it equivalently or above the S4/m340/C43 though. The big 3 germans have all surged in reliability rankings since Acura's glory days and Acura has basically done the opposite. A few Acura loyalists will consider it at this price out of brand loyalty and nostalgia (i'm guilty here), but I can honestly say that I haven't had a single reliability flaw on the 335/M4 outside of a condenser hose on my AC leaking once. Unless we're talking about range rovers or jaguars or maseratis, I dont think that reliability is really a factor in 2020. I've just got an 18 year old Type-S keychain in my junk drawer that I really want to put back into use.

CollinR4

The problem with pricing at $55K is they are then undercut by the G70 by about $3K and the Germans have the entry price (I know, S4 now has a 49.9K Premium model) that then appears more competitive. The G70 was MTCOY for 2019 and is scheduled to receive a better entry-level engine (2.5T vs 2.0T) and replace the very strong 3.3TT with a 3.5TT for the MMC. I believe $52-$53K is the sweet spot so they are under the entry price of 2/3 of the Germans and that value proposition only grows based on the options that customers want. Fingers crossed we get more information very soon.

pyrodan007

Yup, that's why they better work their butts off for a beautiful interior, better than the current Accord. The engine must be over competitive too, or else it's over.

MSZ

Hyundai's 3.5TT makes 375hp. Not very impressive HP per litre wise, but from a marketing point of view Acura would be in trouble if their brand new Type-S model makes less power than that.

hadokenuh

That's because we can't find them anywhere locally. And when there is one in the showroom, the dealership acts like it's a one of a kind. Well, technically it is one of a kind but it shouldn't be that way. It should be somewhat mass-produced.

alpha0

If there was TLX sport hybrid (with say 1500$ more than SHAWD models just like MDX), i would have bought one without any hesitation. That would have fixed issues i had with TLX during my test drive - low end power and 9AT.

ZipSpeed

Agreed. A missed opportunity. Hell, with the power numbers and DCT of the Sport Hybrid, they could’ve had a TLX Type-S five years ago.

Midnight Mystery

You hit the nail on the head... IMO!

I still think $55K isn't bad compared to what some German cars go for, although, I don't fallow German sales that well...

BEAR-AvHistory

You can get a nice 2WD 340 for $58,000. MSRP or AWD $2,000+. Would expect at least 8% to 10% or more off. TLX would most likely have more stuff but all the key items are there. I was about 15% off but had some extra items that a new buyer would not get like a loyalty discount directly from BMW.

TLX will always do well in the value department but the numbers are a lot closer now than when I bought my TL & 330/ZHP.

Midnight Mystery

Good point. I always kind of look to Audi more thsn BMW for some reason.

The good thing about the TLX is that it can and will probably be more cost effective to own and resale than the BMW in the long run.

What's the deal with BMW's loyalty discount? Is it like a "Thanks for sticking with us even though your last BMW put you in debt to keep on the road" discount?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea I think $47-$55k is a good estimate for the Type S, depending on the exact trim. There will eventually be incentives like other cars.

BEAR-AvHistory

Contrary to prevailing opinion here at least in my case 6 have been very reliable & have not been stranded on the road once since my first BMW in 2004. (Had MB & Jaguar in the past. First expensive family car was a 1977 Cadillac Coupe DeVille)

Have very little out of pocket for non covered items with the BMW's. Think if you run the deprecation tables there is no advantage to Acura over almost anyone. You can't have great resale when you can't sell the cars in the first place. Hopefully the TLX will turn that around for the buyers.

Have had both long term buy & holds of 10 years & the current one is 8 years old - most mileage was 125,000 in 10 years. The 8 year old will have similar mileage if I still have it in 10 which seems likely. Short term 3 year leases were/are all under the warranty & no cost normal consumables maintenance. Thing is on the 3 year leases the payments were based on a 58% to 60% residual value. Be interesting to hear what a 3 year TLX residual is.

Mamma didn't raise no dummies & if the BMW's were troublesome I would not buy them. My background in work history is international finance & am not a fan of being wasteful of money. That said I also believe you only go around once so live the best you can.

As for the loyalty discount & other benefits BMW marking strategy is to get young upwardly mobile people in the door with entry level $30,000 cars & provide an upward path as they progress in their careers up through $185,000. They might buy other cars but there is always a BMW to look at in their price range. MB Audi do the same thing. They play from middle income to upper income. They are mass market producers that hold the upper middle ground & concede the transitional ground of pure upper market to exotic market to Porsche.

Acura basically has 2 cars & 2 SUV that run out at $66,000 & a huge gap to the NSX which also does not sell.

KeithL

I say the new Type-S will come in just under $50K.

pyrodan007

If they limit the amount of options and keep only 2-3 total trims like the Kia Stinger, 50k (63k CAD) as pure Max sounds reasonable. They better have very competitive options though such adaptive suspension and a better transmission. Having the 3.0T and Honda's 10 tranny, not so sure it will be fast enough versus the competition. Looks somewhat odd if only the base engine has the 8DCT (if they even keep it). I still don't know why they didn't beef it up and use it in the RDX, so many missed opportunities for "performance".

vh2k

Wild guess...

TLX 2.0T Base = $34,995
Tech = $3,000
Advance = $5,000

TLX 3.3TT Tech AWD = $44,995
Advance = $5,000

hadokenuh

If Acura can make it relatively well equipped at $50K, the are gonna sell a lot of them. It will be the 3G TL all over again.

Midnight Mystery

We can only hope so....

Tony Pac

At least we know, Acura priced the new RDX reasonably. Only thing they missed I believe was A-Spec with Advanced trim. But I am sure they left that for mid cycle.

Summer 2021, we will get the mid cycle RDX with few updates and one of them will be advanced trim with A-Spec.


More than pricing, we need to see the car first lol.

fiatlux

They’re probably saving the Advance+ASpec trim for the PMC model

Tony Pac

Hahaha! I really hope not. This PMC doesn’t make any sense if there is no power increase

leomio85

I'm gonna go against the grain and say the Type-S is going to be right at the $55k mark to start. The G70 AWD Sport ticks in around $55k. I doubt Acura is looking to undercut a Genesis, even if it's the top of the line model. I hope I'm wrong, but I have a sneaking suspicion that that will be the case. It'll be well equipped tho, with not much to desire as far as options go, seeing as the M340i starts at $56k ... Acura is probably going to thread that needle. It'd be fantastic if it was under $50k, I'd wager on it not being though.

loki

Touring Accord MSRP is $36K. However, 6 months ago, way before coronavirus, I asked few Honda dealers around me for a quote, they all gave me $32K (USD) without even stepping in and haggling. The 2020 Accord Touring 2.0T 10AT for $32K is the best near-luxury car experience on the market. The new Accord in general made the current generation of TLX completely pointless. Is the Acura badge worth the extra $10K you'll pay for Base TLX 2.0T vs top trip loaded Touring Accord? Only to those that are compensating for something.

Speed_Racer

Even at the discount you quoted on the Accord Touring no way the base 2.0T is going to be $42,000. More like $35,000 for the base TLX. Is it still worth the few thousand above a Touring? That's always been the question with a top end Accord hopping over to a base TLX. I like the Accord, but the interior looks and feels cheap to me. TLX isn't any benchmark though. Just comparing what it looks and feels like. Can't argue all the tech you get though in the Accord. Driving one just seem rough. I drove a 2019 Sport 2.0T and given how it was new, i wondered how it would hold up over time. I wasn't compensating for anything getting the TLX AWD. It was quieter, had better pick up, didn't feel like a tin can, had AWD and the dealer "experience" where i live is better. Try getting a loaner out of a Honda dealer and they laugh at you.

dmski

Whatever floats your boat. Current Accord is the ugliest banana boat on the road. Especially with that chrome grill. It's just FUGLY. If you never want to look back after parking your car. Get it.

loki

Guys - I've owned 12 Honda/Acura cars - and that's literally just me, not counting cars wife had or has from Honda. You're preaching to the quor. I've had everything from 1994 Accord LX auto to a 2003 CLS 6MT to 2015 TLX V6 SHAWD Tech to my current 2019 Accord Sport 2.0T 6MT. I'm an old dog when it comes to Honda loyalty. I love Acura brand. Acura was my first car into Honda family. Acura name will always have a special place in my heart. That CLS6 was an engineering marvel for that time and that price. But fast forward 10 years and from CLS6 to 2015 TLX V6 pure and utter garbage. Complete mechanical and interior trash. And that spans on ILX, TLX, RLX. I rode in back seat of a RLX, I felt like I was in a 30 year old Chevy Lumina. Why would anyone pay $33K for a base TLX after discounts for 2.0T 10AT when you can have top trim Accord Touring for less with same power train. Accord has come a long way. The Touring has HUD and cooled seats now. That was unimaginable on Accord just 3 years ago before 10th Gen came out. RDX was a step in the right direction. Next TLX will be sink or swim for Acura brand. And yes, I have gotten loaners from Honda dealer. There is a dealer in my area, Pauly Honda and they also have Pauly Acura. Same owners, same managers, same service director. I've dealt with both shops. Both offer loaners. Both have techs who test drive customer vehicles with extreme caution and care - seen it first hand. Both dealerships and all personnel I interacted with work with ethics. I work hard to establish good relationships with service managers and directors at dealerships where I'll be taking my cars. I've yet not to establish one where I didn't get their personal phone numbers. Both shops are run by same managers and I've received equally good/excellent customer service from both. So your statement about Honda dealers laughing at me are false. At least in my experience. Maybe you need a new dealer

BEAR-AvHistory

This is something you should never have to do. They should be working hard to establish good relationships with you. No way I am going to kiss some service advisor or managers ass to get the quality service I should be getting.

loki

With all due respect, that's because you don't understand how service departments at dealerships function. This isn't some small business or local repair shop. These are places that make their money on volume. Drive by any service bay and chances are there's a car on a lift. They don't need you to come back, there's always new customers coming in and 99.99 of faces they see are forgettable. I go the lengths to become friendly with the oldest guy at the counter because he survived in the business the longest because he's ethical and honest. When I go in, I'll drop off dozen donuts for them. You are underestimating the power of free donuts. The service manager is one thing but I have a great relationship with the head guy at the dealership, I go for the oldest guy at the counter and for the service director. I work my way into his book and his phone. I can text him if I need something. It's called layering and establishing contacts. He knows I work in IT, I know how his brother is doing, etc. You think this is a bad thing? I had an issue with my Accord that Honda tech line dismissed, this guy fought for me for 3 months to get Honda to pay for something they didn't want to. And at the end when Honda said final no, his dealership paid for the replacement as a good will repair. Something cosmetic but at a tune of $700. In a small little perfect world, yeah, what you're saying should be true, in theory...not in the real world. My strategy hasn't failed me yet. Another quick example and I'm done. That piece of junk TLX, my relationship with the service manager paid a round trip for NSX mechanic (yes, a mechanic, not a technician) to come for a visit and see what's going on (after 2nd replacement). I got to go on a test drive with him and learn the coolest details about a lot of stuff. Does your dealer fly in NSX mechanics when you have a problem?

BEAR-AvHistory

So kissing butt did not get the problem solved the first or second time & they did unnecessary work because there regular employees are lacking. Never had them fly in a NSX mechanic as the Acura dealership Hendricks owns does not service Hendrick BMWs.

That said I did get as a repeat buyer performance driving lessons comped at their track in SC by BMW team drivers.




BMW Performance Driving School Instructors

Really good news about the service is I generally only see them once a year for my free annual maintenance & state DMV inspection.

As for understanding how dealerships work with a new car about every three years on average since 1962 have a reasonable amount of dealership contact. All ran the project that developed the package GM uses with its banks & dealers banks to manage the floor-plan pay-down for money owed when dealers buy cars from them.

loki

You're absolutely right, I take back everything I said.

high-cam

Assuming the V6 turbo is only available for the Type S, I believe MSRP should be between 48k to 50k to start with. Reason being, for as good as the car may be, It'll never carry the status for most as a BMW or AMG. Acura's biggest competitiors will be the S4, the G70, the Stinger, and the CT5 V, which all have an MSRPs below 50k and offer V6 turbos. Honda loyalist may be willing to pay a premium for this car but that would be a mistake akin to how they've priced the current NSX. I myself hope this car leases well, as I will be in the market next spring. Though an M340Xi can have an MSRP of over 60k, you can find many deals in the low to mid 500s a month. Price out the door will make or break this car.

CollinR4

Any thoughts on the pricing of the 2.0T TLX? Assuming they match the RDX we'd be looking at 8 versions: Base, Tech, A-Spec and Advanced (FWD and SH-AWD). Any estimates since it is expected to move upscale with a much more powerful engine vs the current 2.4 while still being priced below a future Type-S.

Kense

Magazines always do unfair comparisons in favor of Germans. The AWD Q50 RS does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds it's the RWD that does 4.5. Others have gotten under 4 seconds in the AWD with just a JB4. Not to mention those cars will cost you 10 grand more. The Red Sport gets trashed for it's infotainment, Transmission and Lack of LSD. The interior is actually quite comfortable and nice. The bad publicity is odd frankly. Yes I have one

20TwozZZZzz

Just my opinion but if the PMC TLX is at 50k USD right now and the RLX's are in the 60k USD range, I would have to guess that the sweet spot for the new TLX Types is going to be right around 55k USD. I hope I am wrong tho, because I would prefer to pay 50K and upgrade from my 2008 KBP Type S.

BEAR-AvHistory

Missing the bad publicity part.

The M340 RWD with 382 rated BHP does 60 mph from a standstill in 3.8 seconds and its 30-to-50-mph passing time of 2.4 seconds is in league with vastly more powerful cars. That is showroom stock without a JB4. The 400 RED RWD's at 4.5 & 13.3 at 109mph.

My Z4 RWD M40i with basically the same 382BHP, 8ZF, LSD power train runs the same numbers according to C&D & also by my Dragy timing device including a 12.3 1/4 mile at 116mph. With a JB4 M340's are posting 11 second 1/4 miles.

Its a fair statement that the RED 400 is both slower & not as quick as the BMW, MB, Audi & Alfa. Its also a fair statement that it costs less money. The M340's also have an LSD stock & the 8ZF used by many exotic manufactures is considered the best Automatic available today. Point is anything outside of pure measured numbers is just opinion.

I think the RED's are nice cars but they never have been a quick as the 340's or other German & Italian premium sports sedans. They are quicker than the Lexus & Acura cars

Infotainment is a judgement call & can't comment on the quality of the RED's versus the German brands. Personally to me its just a radio, not a key part of the car. That said I don't see any unfairness in the reporting unless its over nitpicking about the radio or seats & things like that that I ignore in the test reports.

ZCL

My ignorant guess is in that price point the Germans are better purchases. Nicer, faster, prestige.

B1ackAlloy

I agree with you. 65k will be outrageous and once you are in that range people will look elsewhere. 60k USD is still pushing for an Acura sedan at the end of the day. I think the perfect price point is 48k-52k USD. If they stay in that range I believe sales will be fantastic even during this pandemic we are in.

TypeS1987

$55,000- $58,000 Type-S

djhtsx

iTrader: (2)

there is no way it will be priced that low especially the type s. The pmc was priced at 50k.

pyrodan007

The pmc was a limited run car, so higher price makes sense. The Type-S doesn't have a special paint job or custom workers, should be for sure cheaper to produce.

B1ackAlloy

I think people are forgetting to realize that the PMC was drastically overpriced. They charged extra for the paint on that car as well as you mentioned it was limited. I think what drove the price up as well is because it was hand built in the same factory as the NSX. But yeah I agree the Type S should be cheaper to produce than the PMC