BEAR-AvHistory

That's great that it doesn't matter to you, but if it was my I would have been better not to have to spend the $1,400 had they put a chain in as OEM. They just transferred one of their production costs over to you by going with a rubber belt. Good for the stockholders.

I keep my maintenance costs low by doing it myself on cars that have outrun their warranty like my 23 year old 4X4 Pickup or cars, SUV's over 4 years old. Expedition EL was 14 years old when I got the Suburban RST. Also have been pretty careful about staying away from used cars, my first at 18 was used the next one a 409/425HP at 21 years old was new, Bought a few more here & there but never a daily driver also I never bought one I did not know.

Ghostof TypeS Past

Could it have a timing belt for any reason other than to make money? Seems like a $50 belt doesn’t do that much for the company considering it needs to make 100k mi before that is purchased.

I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure all Honda v6’s are belt driven. Is this antiquated technology to keep development costs down? If so why would they have chains in 2002 4cyl? Thoughts?

motlagh

The timing belt stuff seems like old car lore. Yes, you should replace it eventually, but they're made these days with reinforced fibers and temperature coating (not just rubber) and will last a long time. It's not a time bomb.

motlagh

As for reason, using a belt ultimately makes for a smaller sized engine.

BEAR-AvHistory

Lets start off with "Acura TL Timing Belt Replacement Cost Estimate". The average cost for an Acura TL timing belt replacement is between $998 and $1,122. Labor costs are estimated between $476 and $600 while parts are priced at $522."

Acura/Honda saves money when the build the car. Acura makes money when they sell you a repair kit. Just to make it easy will use your $50 even though you paid what was it $1,400 all in parts & labor. So the save at your number maybe $50 parts & labor building the engine. At 100,000 miles they make another $25 selling you a belt for $50. Acura sold in 2020 136,982 cars & trucks. Sales are SUV heavy so lets say 50% of their output was V6 68,491 units. Profit to Acura $5,136,825 on just a crapy $50 piece. Now add that to all the V6's HONDA sells & you are talking some serious money.

But in reality the belt does not sell for $50 because you will be replacing other parts to install it. DIY Rock Auto sells a Gates non OEM kit for $156.79. An all Acura OEM kit, An Aisin kit best of the non OEM kits $262.91. It Acura does it you will get OEM parts about $100 more.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I wanted to for the 105K service for the J series (exception for the J30AT as I can't validate what I'm about to say)

A proper 105K consists of

-Timing belt replacement with tensioner(s) and water pump.
-Coolant service
-Replacement of spark plugs
-Valve adjustment

Optional:

-Replace passenger side engine mount if worn
-Replace accessory belt and tensioner if worn
-Oil change service if required.

A real 105K service is not cheap by any means. Keep in mind at the 105K mark (at least for the 3rd gen TL) additional wear and tear items like lower control arm bushings, ball joints, engine mounts, tires, brakes, ect can be due. Most vehicles if only basic services have been done til the 100K will need something more than just an oil change and an air filter. So that's where a lot of people seem to be caught by surprise and sell these vehicles. The 3rd and 4th gen TL have been out for 15+ years, so there's plenty of proof to validate what i've said. Hence why when "new owners" of the 3rd and 4th gen TL buy them, they complain about high cost of repairs. The TLX-S will go down the same path once it's well used and abused and on it's 3rd or 4th owner.

Camaro194

It took me $256 and a weekend to do mine (Aisin kit, water pump, pulley, coolant, plugs). Time and money well spent. Other than some tricky to reach bolts for the covers, it really wasn't a bad job. And I acquired a nice impact wrench that made short work of the crankshaft bolt; convenient/overkill now for removing lug nuts.

Will likely DIY again in @ 10 years for the TLX-S. Just another set of cam shafts to keep in alignment

BEAR-AvHistory

Not sure I understand. Why would a belt be smaller than a chain?

motlagh

Since a chain gets oiled, it gets its own metal housing, but a belt is usually just covered by some plastic parts, since it runs dry. It's not a dramatic size difference, but my understanding is that generally they're slightly smaller.

Legend2TL

There are some other reasons for TB advantages over timing chain.

1) difficult to believe is greater precision. Chains with their links, pins, rollers,.... have some tolerance stackup which causes some inaccuracy for cam/crank.
2) TB in general stretch much less than a chain over time. Older Honda didn't even use a active TB tensioner (like current J-series), you just tension the belt then torque down the tensioner.
3) TB make the engine design easier as they don't need lubrication and is a dry area with plastic covers.
4) Mass of a TB is a fraction of a timing chain, so there there's less parasitic loss in the engine so some a slight amount of power increase.

Alot of folks ramble around and they've all like TB are only cheaper

But they ignore or don't know that the majority of Ferrari Dino motors (70's to the 00's) are TB including the Typo F120A in a F40.
Add in the many Ferrari V12's that also used TB
And many Porsche's (924/944/928/968) in the 70's-90's had TB.




Heck even the purpose designed 1000HP Renault EF15 F1 engine from the 80's used TB, were cost is neglectable.
Yes that's Aryton's helmet on top when he drove for Lotus and they used Renault V6T
Notice the dual TB configuration with two crank pulleys also feeding the oil pumps with belts too


As to why TB are on the way out? I think enough consumers complained about TB replacement cost and ruined engines that manufacturers have mostly phased them out.
So I'm guessing that's why the current Honda L and K motors are chains, and also steel alloys have evolved alot in the past few decades so chains have also gotten better too and stretch less.
Today all Ferrari's have timing chains.

FWIW, don't assume timing chains are always carefree, alot of BMW V8's have timing chain guides that fail. Sometimes the tensioners fail too (first motor Toyota 20R I ever took apart had a failed tensioner).
But AFAIK most timing chains last the life of motor and require no replacement or maintenance.

I've lost track of how many TB's (mostly Honda/Acura but some others including a 2G Supra and Porsche 928) I've replaced but around 30-35 in 4 decades, it's not fun with the1G Legend being the worst (extremely tightly packaged C27).
So I'm glad to be down to two J-motors in our family, there are many many better things do spend 4-6 hours on than replacing a J-series TB.

Enough of my rambling and

jhb31

Replaced the TB 3 times on my bmw due to miles years back. Wasn't a difficult task but would just pay someone now if I ever have a vehicle long enough that needs it. I assume most people when buying a used car take the TB replacement if due or needed into account when they make an offer on a car with higher miles on it. Definitely shouldn't be a worry at all for anyone buying a brand new car.

ELIN

Is timing belt same as the serpentine belt or different?

Legend2TL

Different, serpentine belt drives the engine ancillaries (alternator, A/C compressor,....) from the crankshaft typically