Car & Driver numbers are in….not too good
#161
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
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#162
#163
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
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Not saying you're RIGHT or WRONG, I couldn't obtain the information to validate what you said as I don't really do performance research on the S4. Perhaps some of the other members who know better than I can validate this. I will say, the B9 S4 has a lot of aftermarket support from my research to obtain the stock dyno numbers. We already know the S4 is quicker so it's possible to have a bit more to the wheels vs the TLX-S
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#165
Not sure if this has been posted but check out the power against.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CRj5rgnH...dium=copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/p/CRj5rgnH...dium=copy_link
Last edited by fiatlux; 07-20-2021 at 08:55 PM.
#166
[Disclaimer: No, this is not bashing the Type-S ... it's just comparing mod-ability comparative to the higher performance model available]
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#167
Not saying you're RIGHT or WRONG, I couldn't obtain the information to validate what you said as I don't really do performance research on the S4. Perhaps some of the other members who know better than I can validate this. I will say, the B9 S4 has a lot of aftermarket support from my research to obtain the stock dyno numbers. We already know the S4 is quicker so it's possible to have a bit more to the wheels vs the TLX-S
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#168
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
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IIRC the S4 makes around 340whp, confirmed on multiple cars and multiple dynos. While you can’t compare dyno results from different dynos and different days, that’s a huge difference from the Type S numbers to chalk up to normal variation. I think it’s safe to say without a doubt that the S4 makes considerably more power than the Type S, and the results at the drag strip confirms that.
#169
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
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#170
IIRC the S4 makes around 340whp, confirmed on multiple cars and multiple dynos. While you can’t compare dyno results from different dynos and different days, that’s a huge difference from the Type S numbers to chalk up to normal variation. I think it’s safe to say without a doubt that the S4 makes considerably more power than the Type S, and the results at the drag strip confirms that.
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#171
IIRC the S4 makes around 340whp, confirmed on multiple cars and multiple dynos. While you can’t compare dyno results from different dynos and different days, that’s a huge difference from the Type S numbers to chalk up to normal variation. I think it’s safe to say without a doubt that the S4 makes considerably more power than the Type S, and the results at the drag strip confirms that.
#172
#173
I just have this funny feeling that Type S owners will be revving their engines like mad at any opportunity they get to demonstrate what a loud and amazing car they’ve got. Of course there will be some who are actually mature and sensible, but I can’t help but think there’s going to be a lot of silliness taking place soon.
#174
Senior Moderator
Dew it. FBO + turbo swap + tune and you'll be making about 45wHP more than the Type-S while being ~200lbs lighter. Of course, no warranty, but it'll be noticeably quicker compared to the Type-S and for less than the $6k price difference.
[Disclaimer: No, this is not bashing the Type-S ... it's just comparing mod-ability comparative to the higher performance model available]
[Disclaimer: No, this is not bashing the Type-S ... it's just comparing mod-ability comparative to the higher performance model available]
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#175
For as much criticism we tend to give the weight, it's not like the powertrain is a world beater. I know it's a unfair to compare it to the M340i, but the M340i Convertible that C&D just tested weighs only 25lb less, but still bests the Type S by a wide margin (and narrowly edges out the S4, too, for that matter). 0-60 in 4.1s, 1/4-mile in 12.6s @ 111mph, with a curb weight of 4176lb. That B58 motor is just unreal.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
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#176
IIRC the S4 makes around 340whp, confirmed on multiple cars and multiple dynos. While you can’t compare dyno results from different dynos and different days, that’s a huge difference from the Type S numbers to chalk up to normal variation. I think it’s safe to say without a doubt that the S4 makes considerably more power than the Type S, and the results at the drag strip confirms that.
#177
Burning Brakes
I thought it was already well known when Germans give HP numbers it’s WHP.
#178
Everyone keeps talking about the 355hp and the weight. Honda/Acura have been underrating their power numbers for a while. So until you dyno and drive it, stop talking about how it will drive or accelerate or how another car will beat it. Gets so annoying. Seen too many test where cars with more power getting beaten by cars with lower power numbers.
OOOOO!!!!! Can't wait! My wife asked about it last night. Im thinking it might end up putting down 355hp to the wheels. Lol.
One thought I've had is that it won't be a top trim. It'll be more like..a mid range trim. Like the Accord Sport 2.0 is a mid range trim but has some features of the EX model. Maybe it'll have things like navigation and leather. Of course the BBK and bigger motor but not all the features of the Advanced trim.
One thought I've had is that it won't be a top trim. It'll be more like..a mid range trim. Like the Accord Sport 2.0 is a mid range trim but has some features of the EX model. Maybe it'll have things like navigation and leather. Of course the BBK and bigger motor but not all the features of the Advanced trim.
Are we allowed to talk about it now that it's been dyno'd and track tested?
Last edited by fiatlux; 07-20-2021 at 10:56 PM.
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#179
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
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#183
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
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#184
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
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#185
Car Enthusiast
There's a house near my place, I have seen this white Supra has been parked at the same spot on his/her driveway and has not moved an inch. So clean and sexy! I am wondering if it's a 2JZ and if the owner ever put up the FORSALE sign on it. :-D
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#187
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
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#188
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Why go the complicated route of multiple motors, battery charging, controller computer, electrical reliability liability setup when the same task can be done with simply a turbo-V6 and torque-vectoring AWD mechanics ?
Carry on Audi. Honda has been through this path and will laugh at you a couple years down the road.
Carry on Audi. Honda has been through this path and will laugh at you a couple years down the road.
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#189
AZ Community Team
#190
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Why go the complicated route of multiple motors, battery charging, controller computer, electrical reliability liability setup when the same task can be done with simply a turbo-V6 and torque-vectoring AWD mechanics ?
Carry on Audi. Honda has been through this path and will laugh at you a couple years down the road.
Carry on Audi. Honda has been through this path and will laugh at you a couple years down the road.
AUDI EV
HONDA EV
#191
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Originally Posted by
Edward'TLS But he said: Honda will laugh at you a couple years down the road
But the future is EV not hybrid. BMW is running M340 hybrid now but corporate policy is the move more EV's. By the end of 2025, the company expects to have delivered about 2 million full-electric vehicles to customers, rising to 10 million by 2030. The company will have at least one full-electric model on the road in 90 percent of its current market segments by 2023.
Right now I think Audi is ahead of BMW in EV's
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 07-21-2021 at 04:58 PM.
#192
AZ Community Team
But the future is EV not hybrid. BMW is running hybrid now but corporate policy is the move more EV's. By the end of 2025, the company expects to have delivered about 2 million full-electric vehicles to customers, rising to 10 million by 2030. The company will have at least one full-electric model on the road in 90 percent of its current market segments by 2023.
Had nothing to do with pure EV, FWIW the Audi Q5 hybrid sold less than than the MDX Sport Hybrid
No many want them in Acura or Audi, it's a EV future
Last edited by Legend2TL; 07-21-2021 at 05:01 PM.
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#193
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[QUOTE=Legend2TL;16740378]The original subject was the Acura electric SH-AWD hybrid drivetrain system which was discontinued in the MDX and RLX.
Had nothing to do with EV, FWIW the Audi Q5 hybrid sold less than than the MDX Sport Hybrid
No many want them in Acura or Audi, it's a EV future[/QUOTE]
You do understand 'down the road" is a reference to the future, not yesterday, not today.
Must have missed something. So in the future or down the road Honda is going to laugh at AUDI who is going EV because HONDA has more experience in hybrid's which is yesterdays & todays tech in the HONDA line & with two discontinued Acura's.
Had nothing to do with EV, FWIW the Audi Q5 hybrid sold less than than the MDX Sport Hybrid
No many want them in Acura or Audi, it's a EV future[/QUOTE]
You do understand 'down the road" is a reference to the future, not yesterday, not today.
Must have missed something. So in the future or down the road Honda is going to laugh at AUDI who is going EV because HONDA has more experience in hybrid's which is yesterdays & todays tech in the HONDA line & with two discontinued Acura's.
#194
Some Guy Who Loves Cars
But the future is EV not hybrid. BMW is running M340 hybrid now but corporate policy is the move more EV's. By the end of 2025, the company expects to have delivered about 2 million full-electric vehicles to customers, rising to 10 million by 2030. The company will have at least one full-electric model on the road in 90 percent of its current market segments by 2023.
Off point: I'm not surprised by this post and you're the BMW guy Bear. I will say that when shopping for my Accord, what I really wanted was a plug-in hybrid, but the Prius Prime and Clarity are such dudmobiles. The BMW e-drive floated to the top of my list at one point. There were several 330e (some with xDrive) available around here at decent prices, but I read some questionable reviews and ultimately didn't want to roll the dice on an early year complex machine from BMW. On paper, that would have been the perfect car for me. I believe what you're saying though. I'm seeing more and more i3 and even an i8 every now and then around here. I would just caution automakers to go full EV. The appeal of a hybrid or plug-in hybrid is the unlimited range without having to charge. I know people with Telsas who already complain about having to charge halfway through long drives.
Last edited by someguy11; 07-21-2021 at 05:33 PM.
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#195
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Lots of criticim and lots of praise. Each, or at least most, due to merely personal preferences. I have been a fan of Car & Driver for a long time and I saw minimal criticism, if any, in their report. The S an 'A+' in my opinion.
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On point: I really wish I had purchased an RLX SH at some point in my past. It wasn't really a ratings or sales hit, but the RLX was an amazing looker and the SH gave the flagship sedan the AWD it deserved.
Off point: I'm not surprised by this post and you're the BMW guy Bear. I will say that when shopping for my Accord, what I really wanted was a plug-in hybrid, but the Prius Prime and Clarity are such dudmobiles. The BMW e-drive floated to the top of my list at one point. There were several 330e (some with xDrive) available around here at decent prices, but I read some questionable reviews and ultimately didn't want to roll the dice on an early year complex machine from BMW. On paper, that would have been the perfect car for me. I believe what you're saying though. I'm seeing more and more i3 and even an i8 every now and then around here. I would just caution automakers to go full EV. The appeal of a hybrid or plug-in hybrid is the unlimited range without having to charge. I know people with Telsas who already complain about having to charge halfway through long drives.
Off point: I'm not surprised by this post and you're the BMW guy Bear. I will say that when shopping for my Accord, what I really wanted was a plug-in hybrid, but the Prius Prime and Clarity are such dudmobiles. The BMW e-drive floated to the top of my list at one point. There were several 330e (some with xDrive) available around here at decent prices, but I read some questionable reviews and ultimately didn't want to roll the dice on an early year complex machine from BMW. On paper, that would have been the perfect car for me. I believe what you're saying though. I'm seeing more and more i3 and even an i8 every now and then around here. I would just caution automakers to go full EV. The appeal of a hybrid or plug-in hybrid is the unlimited range without having to charge. I know people with Telsas who already complain about having to charge halfway through long drives.
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#197
6G TLX-S
The sole purpose of the existence of the RLX/MDX Sport Hybrid powertrain was to temporary fill in the gap for high output (>350hp) V6 engines. The RLX/MDX Sport Hybrid was designed to boost engine power, and not to maximize fuel economy.
Now that the J-series turbo-V6 can assume the task, there is no more need for the Sport Hybrid powertrain to exist, for the purpose of boosting engine horsepower.
For high power application, there is this turbo-V6 engine. For clean air and maximize fuel economy applications, EV is the clear choice, and for the time being, regular hybrid (not Sport Hybrid) is the way to go until EV battery technology becomes more mature.
So there is nothing to set back, because complex Sport Hybrid is never the future.
Now that the J-series turbo-V6 can assume the task, there is no more need for the Sport Hybrid powertrain to exist, for the purpose of boosting engine horsepower.
For high power application, there is this turbo-V6 engine. For clean air and maximize fuel economy applications, EV is the clear choice, and for the time being, regular hybrid (not Sport Hybrid) is the way to go until EV battery technology becomes more mature.
So there is nothing to set back, because complex Sport Hybrid is never the future.
Why go the complicated route of multiple motors, battery charging, controller computer, electrical reliability liability setup when the same task can be done with simply a turbo-V6 and torque-vectoring AWD mechanics ?
Carry on Audi. Honda has been through this path and will laugh at you a couple years down the road.
Carry on Audi. Honda has been through this path and will laugh at you a couple years down the road.
You do understand 'down the road" is a reference to the future, not yesterday, not today.
Must have missed something. So in the future or down the road Honda is going to laugh at AUDI who is going EV because HONDA has more experience in hybrid's which is yesterdays & todays tech in the HONDA line & with two discontinued Acura's.
Must have missed something. So in the future or down the road Honda is going to laugh at AUDI who is going EV because HONDA has more experience in hybrid's which is yesterdays & todays tech in the HONDA line & with two discontinued Acura's.
To sum it up, I have been saying that the RLX/MDX Sport Hybrid powertrain was a temporary stop-gap solution for Honda's lacking of high power (>350hp) V6 engines. With the debut of a high power Honda turbo-V6, there was no more need for Sport Hybrid to exist. Sport Hybrid was never the future, EV would be the future when EV battery technology became more mature. Then another forum member said that Audi was also implementing a similar hybrid system similar to the Honda/Acura Sport Hybrid. I said Sport Hybrid powertrain was a very complicated setup when a simpler turbo-V6-torque-vectoring-AWD could achieve the same result. I also added that since Honda/Acura had been down this Sport Hybrid path (and decided not to continue), so Honda/Acura would laugh at Audi after Audi had eventually figured out that Sport Hybrid would be a dead end a couple years down the road.
Last edited by Edward'TLS; 07-22-2021 at 01:10 AM.
#198
6G TLX-S
The original subject was the Acura electric SH-AWD hybrid drivetrain system which was discontinued in the MDX and RLX which was being discussed.
Had nothing to do with pure EV, FWIW the Audi Q5 hybrid sold less than than the MDX Sport Hybrid
No many want them in Acura or Audi, it's a EV future
Had nothing to do with pure EV, FWIW the Audi Q5 hybrid sold less than than the MDX Sport Hybrid
No many want them in Acura or Audi, it's a EV future
#199
AZ Community Team
BEAR-AvHistory, since you have missed out on the first part of my discussion, you have completely missed my point. So I here put together the entire discussion as above to help you understand better.
To sum it up, I have been saying that the RLX/MDX Sport Hybrid powertrain was a temporary stop-gap solution for Honda's lacking of high power (>350hp) V6 engines. With the debut of a high power Honda turbo-V6, there was no more need for Sport Hybrid to exist. Sport Hybrid was never the future, EV would be the future when EV battery technology became more mature. Then another forum member said that Audi was also implementing a similar hybrid system similar to the Honda/Acura Sport Hybrid. I said Sport Hybrid powertrain was a very complicated setup when a simpler turbo-V6-torque-vectoring-AWD could achieve the same result. I also added that since Honda/Acura had been down this Sport Hybrid path (and decided not to continue), so Honda/Acura would laugh at Audi after Audi had eventually figured out that Sport Hybrid would be a dead end a couple years down the road.
To sum it up, I have been saying that the RLX/MDX Sport Hybrid powertrain was a temporary stop-gap solution for Honda's lacking of high power (>350hp) V6 engines. With the debut of a high power Honda turbo-V6, there was no more need for Sport Hybrid to exist. Sport Hybrid was never the future, EV would be the future when EV battery technology became more mature. Then another forum member said that Audi was also implementing a similar hybrid system similar to the Honda/Acura Sport Hybrid. I said Sport Hybrid powertrain was a very complicated setup when a simpler turbo-V6-torque-vectoring-AWD could achieve the same result. I also added that since Honda/Acura had been down this Sport Hybrid path (and decided not to continue), so Honda/Acura would laugh at Audi after Audi had eventually figured out that Sport Hybrid would be a dead end a couple years down the road.
Late to the real hybrid party (I discount those Honda planar electric motor assist early hybrids) but Honda finally got up to Toyota level in overall hybrid tech (with the new CRV and Accord hybrids have some impressive efficiency's) but it doesn't matter as much now since hybrid sales AFAIK have been decreasing market share wise.
It's a EV future and I would put Porsche/Audi in 2nd place from a overall EV point of view. Sad but Honda with all it's engineering and manufacturing resources have wasted a good decade where they coulda done what Porsche/Audi have done. Same goes for Toyota.
However, Audi/Porsche have totally leapfrogged both Honda and Toyota with their very modern EV tech. Gotta give credit to them, both Toyota (whose CEO made some kinda weird EV comments in the last few years) and Honda have truly failed to establish a overall EV strategy and tactical approach to their EV's.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 07-22-2021 at 11:54 AM.
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