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My 22' Type-S Apex Blue with Performance Wheels won't arrive until March or April. In the meantime I located a brand new White 2022 M340I xDrive for $58,850 before taxes.
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v/r
60k for what? Looks like another basic 3 series with no huge changes. what a waste. Stick to the type s which looks way better. You want a real nice bmw you have to pony upwards of 70-80k plus
60k for what? Looks like another basic 3 series with no huge changes. what a waste. Stick to the type s which looks way better. You want a real nice bmw you have to pony upwards of 70-80k plus
Doesn't the Type S basically look like any other basic A-Spec? You're throwing stones from a glass house here.
Doesn't the Type S basically look like any other basic A-Spec? You're throwing stones from a glass house here.
Yeah I kind of miss his point that he tried to make before with the same post especially the $60 to 80K to get a better looking car comment. They do all look the same from $33,650 MSRP base to $139.500MSRP base, its one of their signature design features. The family look does not change much as they get more expensive. Size changes, materials changes, power changes, grocery, street performance, GT, track emphasis changes - family resemblance remains.
They sell a lot of cars maintaining a common look. Some manufactures hang a lot of scoops, vents, wings on their cars which don't live up to the image they are projecting. Personally I have no problem with a car being a sleeper. Think the side fender vents on mine are unnecessary as they are not functional. Think going that way they could have done something like the Z4's functional side vents instead.
As for general styling its a wolf in sheep's clothing vs a sheep in wolfs clothing. Some like it, some don't, but they do have global acceptance & did sell about 2,210,000 units in a bad year like 2021. Personally I would not buy a sheep all dressed up in wolfs clothing, don't like "lets pretend in cars" but thats just me.
Nice that there are a lot of different cars to giving people a choice to find what the like & can afford the best.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-12-2022 at 03:58 AM.
60k for what? Looks like another basic 3 series with no huge changes. what a waste. Stick to the type s which looks way better. You want a real nice bmw you have to pony upwards of 70-80k plus
Playing devil's advocate, there's not much visual differentiation between: A4 vs S4, M340 vs 330i, Type S vs A-Spec, G70 3.3T vs G70 2.0T, Q50 3.0T vs Q50 RS400, etc,... And as with each of these, it's largely just the exhaust type the differentiates the higher performance model from it's more pedestrian brethren. I'd argue that with the exception of the Giulia Quadrifoglio vs Sprint/Ti/Veloce, the M340 takes the biggest performance leap over its lesser trimmed sibling.
Playing devil's advocate, there's not much visual differentiation between: A4 vs S4, M340 vs 330i, Type S vs A-Spec, G70 3.3T vs G70 2.0T, Q50 3.0T vs Q50 RS400, etc,... And as with each of these, it's largely just the exhaust type the differentiates the higher performance model from it's more pedestrian brethren. I'd argue that with the exception of the Giulia Quadrifoglio vs Sprint/Ti/Veloce, the M340 takes the biggest performance leap over its lesser trimmed sibling.
For me the biggest give away are the exhaust tips, and IMO the most recognizable sign of a performance vehicle has been BMW's use quad tips. Correct me if I'm wrong but they were among the first to use quad-tips with the E39 M5 (and if they weren't the first, they were at least the most popular early uses of quad-tips that I recognized growing up).
The Type S has a massive quad-exhaust which differentiates it from the dual tips on the base-models and A-spec.
The M340i has dual tips like the 330i, albeit trapezoidal, while BMW reserves the quad-tips for the M3. The prior gen 340i used dual tips like the current 330i.
The G70 uses dual tips for both the base and V6 turbo models, with the latter having an oval trim ring on each side.
The Q50 and the Q50 Redsport both use dual tips, with the Redsport having a very difficult to notice perforated tip. IRL it's near-impossible to tell unless recently polished.
Audi uses quad-tips on the S-models and uses large oval tips on their RS models.
Mercedes introduced quad tips on the C43 AMG only for the mid-cycle refresh. Prior to that, the C43 dual tips with unique but hard to differentiate trim pieces. They reserve square quad tips for the C63.
and the Quadrifoglio is more of an M3 competitor, not an M340i competitor.
The Type S, Audi S4 and the refreshed C43 are the only models in this segment to use quad-tips, which are normally reserved for the segment above (eg. M3). And the A4's and Benz's quad tips are tiny compared to the Acura's. Further, the MMC C43's tips are actually fake (not connected to the exhaust). Regardless, Mercedes did recognize that quad-tips are considered a step up and introduced it on the MMC C43.
What I would add is that Acura should've had the accessory rocker panels standard on the Type S to differentiate it further. But for the segment, the Acura's grill badge and the quad exhaust make it the most differentiated from its base counterpart, IMO.
For me the biggest give away are the exhaust tips, and IMO the most recognizable sign of a performance vehicle has been BMW's use quad tips. Correct me if I'm wrong but they were among the first to use quad-tips with the E39 M5 (and if they weren't the first, they were at least the most popular early uses of quad-tips that I recognized growing up).
The Type S has a massive quad-exhaust which differentiates it from the dual tips on the base-models and A-spec.
The M340i has dual tips like the 330i, albeit trapezoidal, while BMW reserves the quad-tips for the M3. The prior gen 340i used dual tips like the current 330i.
The G70 uses dual tips for both the base and V6 turbo models, with the latter having an oval trim ring on each side.
The Q50 and the Q50 Redsport both use dual tips, with the Redsport having a very difficult to notice perforated tip. IRL it's near-impossible to tell unless recently polished.
Audi uses quad-tips on the S-models and uses large oval tips on their RS models.
Mercedes introduced quad tips on the C43 AMG only for the mid-cycle refresh. Prior to that, the C43 dual tips with unique but hard to differentiate trim pieces. They reserve square quad tips for the C63.
and the Quadrifoglio is more of an M3 competitor, not an M340i competitor.
The Type S, Audi S4 and the refreshed C43 are the only models in this segment to use quad-tips, which are normally reserved for the segment above (eg. M3). And the A4's and Benz's quad tips are tiny compared to the Acura's. Further, the MMC C43's tips are actually fake (not connected to the exhaust). Regardless, Mercedes did recognize that quad-tips are considered a step up and introduced it on the MMC C43.
What I would add is that Acura should've had the accessory rocker panels standard on the Type S to differentiate it further. But for the segment, the Acura's grill badge and the quad exhaust make it the most differentiated from its base counterpart, IMO.
To be clear, AR has no "direct" competitor at this trim level, effecively having a Giulia lineup that consists of a '330i' and an 'M3'.
That said and IMO, nickel and diming the machine like the M340i for appearing like the 330i is fairly weaksauce. The M340i makes up for it's fairly conservative appearance by being a beast on the track yet being able to average 33 mpg with a 510 mile range.
I'll give BMW a pass here (re: "lightly differentiated styling") as it has a King of Mountain version atop the lineup. If we get a TLX Type R (filed under: 'never gonna happen') then we can revisit this.
Good info, and very telling evaluation in comparing the IS350 F-Sport and TLX Type S. The IS is one of the few Toyota products that I like, my favorite being the Tundra followed closely by their BMW Supra.
I officially threw my hat into the TLX Type S ring today, waiting for my store to receive a Performance Red/Ebony Type S to replace my Performance Red/Ebony A-Spec. I should be joining the Type S owner ranks come this February.
congrats, the Performance Red is good for 0.3s reduction in 1/4 mile.
To be clear, AR has no "direct" competitor at this trim level, effecively having a Giulia lineup that consists of a '330i' and an 'M3'.
That said and IMO, nickel and diming the machine like the M340i for appearing like the 330i is fairly weaksauce. The M340i makes up for it's fairly conservative appearance by being a beast on the track yet being able to average 33 mpg with a 510 mile range.
I'll give BMW a pass here (re: "lightly differentiated styling") as it has a King of Mountain version atop the lineup. If we get a TLX Type R (filed under: 'never gonna happen') then we can revisit this.
Fair enough. With that said, Mercedes obviously felt the need to upgrade the C43 AMG to a quad-exhaust on the MMC.
60k for what? Looks like another basic 3 series with no huge changes. what a waste. Stick to the type s which looks way better. You want a real nice bmw you have to pony upwards of 70-80k plus
LOL, Again with trashing a near Base 340, If you want to look fast you can buy M Performance parts. Unlike your car this car actually is Fast and doesn't have to pretend to look like it, but hey you have the option to buy the Aero parts and M Performance Exhaust if you want.
LOL, Again with trashing a near Base 340, If you want to look fast you can buy M Performance parts. Unlike your car this car actually is Fast and doesn't have to pretend to look like it, but hey you have the option to buy the Aero parts and M Performance Exhaust if you want.
See looks less "Basic"
.
how much is that pretty feller 60k we are comparing apples to apples within that price range. For 60k that 340 is garbage. You mean to tell me you’re going to spend 60k for that car and then actually add money to make it faster what a WASTE
ive heard several people say this and its wild to me. How are places able to sell a used car for the same price as a new one? To actually make a relevant profit they would have to sell the used car for over msrp. After they deal with paper work and commision its just hard to believe its profitable. They must be hoping they can force an undercoating and other throw ins on the new buyer as well.
selling so soon also is wild to me. Where i live even if i was offered msrp for the car id still be out the $8000 or so in taxes ( unless it was a trade-in rather then a sale). Thats a lot to drive a car for a few months.
A lack of inventory and in many cases they are selling new cars for mark-up over MSRP (used cars were always their bread and butter, though). Since the crazy market has been going on for a bit now all values are inflated and no one can have the luxury of saying gee this car cost $30K when it was purchased because now the market is saying that's great but it's worth $40K right now. It's really wild, unprecedented times and a part of me thinks values could drop like a rock at some point so some folks will be eating quite a bit.
What I can't wait to see is three years from now when leased cars from now hit the market, it's going to be something to see where values are at then.
3. You mean to tell me you’re going to spend 60k for that car and then actually add money to make it faster what a WASTE
1. I don't know, but I agree ... it is pretty.
2. Seems a bit harsh .
3. I thought you said "money is only money ... if you got it, spend it and get what you want" ... or something along those lines. I remember because I agreed with you.
how much is that pretty feller 60k we are comparing apples to apples within that price range. For 60k that 340 is garbage. You mean to tell me you’re going to spend 60k for that car and then actually add money to make it faster what a WASTE
Adding those parts will cost you $2000 minus the exhaust.
Garbage? lol ok and WTF are you talking about? The Stock M340 is fast out the box. These are not performance mods . LOL you seem angry
3. I thought you said "money is only money ... if you got it, spend it and get what you want" ... or something along those lines. I remember because I agreed with you.
sry let me rephrase all that.
you get more bank for your buck aka u get more with ur money with Acura vs that 340 bmw
you get more bank for your buck aka u get more with ur money with Acura vs that 340 bmw
Not when factoring in solely performance, you get more bang for you buck versus a 2.0T TLX. Unlike what Acura wants people to think, the Type-S in no longer in "smart luxury" territory. Too heavy, unpractical, and slow for "smart mid-performance" as well.
I officially threw my hat into the TLX Type S ring today, waiting for my store to receive a Performance Red/Ebony Type S to replace my Performance Red/Ebony A-Spec. I should be joining the Type S owner ranks come this February.
Nice! You're basically taking the exact same route as me lol. Traded in my 21 Apex Blue A-Spec for a 22 Apex Blue Type-S a couple months ago with a similar wait time. The MY2022 is exactly the same, except for somewhat better fit and finish in the cabin compared to MY2021. Puddle lights still faulty though.
Originally Posted by F23A4
Thank you. Oh yeah and I think my dealer is also chomping at the bit to take in my A-Spec given the shortage of TLXs.
Definitely, A-Spec are hard to come by and I've seen some crazy prices online. They listed my (~5K) mile trade in for $48K and sold it in a week apparently for $46K, still more than I originally paid. The trade in offer they made was laughable (a little under $40K). I flat out told them that and they readily accepted my counter, although now I realize I probably could have gone even higher. Interestingly enough the intelliprice trade in estimator valued the car even higher than KBB or Edmunds. Since no one is offering any incentives on the Type-S and you are probably paying a non-negotiable mark up, all you're leverage and value opportunity is on the trade in side of the deal.
LOL, Again with trashing a near Base 340, If you want to look fast you can buy M Performance parts. Unlike your car this car actually is Fast and doesn't have to pretend to look like it, but hey you have the option to buy the Aero parts and M Performance Exhaust if you want.
See looks less "Basic"
that 330i with its "M Performance Parts" banner on the windshield looks kinda chauchy IMO.
Not when factoring in solely performance, you get more bang for you buck versus a 2.0T TLX. Unlike what Acura wants people to think, the Type-S in no longer in "smart luxury" territory. Too heavy, unpractical, and slow for "smart mid-performance" as well.
On the contrary I think the TLX is exactly a "smart luxury" choice. The luxury/tech/convenience features you get vs any German offering already prove the value appeal, not to mention the greater peace of mind for long term ownership.
I disagree about the performance. I think a <5 sec 0-60 time and 13 sec 1/4 mile are good enough for this car and a far cry from slow. It wasn't that long ago more expensive M/AMG/RS/Porsches performance cars were making similar numbers. Not to mention that the handling is amazing as well, as exemplified in every professional review but glossed over by the YouTube crowd because it can't be quantified.
The performance here is just part of the larger overall package, whereas on something like a RWD performance Charger or Giulia Quad performance is the primary (or sole) appeal of those cars since they're weak in many other areas (durability, build quality, features, tech etc). I think the Type-S is nearly worth the premium over the Advance trim for the styling upgrades alone.
Note also that as with the turbo-4 cars Acura tuned the Type-S powertrain very conservatively. There are already YouTube videos of it getting 0-60 times under 4.5 sec with just some light mods (eg. downpipe) without any ECU tunes.
I completely agree with you that the TLX weighs too much (Type-S included), but it's not a deal breaker unless you absolutely want the fastest or most fuel efficient in the class, and it was an inevitable trade off for the torque vectoring SH-AWD and aggressive styling. It's worth noting that the most similar car to the TLX Type-S - the AWD Cadillac CT5-V - has virtually identical dimensions, weight, gas mileage, and performance.
Like the Type-S the CT5-V is a great product that's about the overall luxury/sport/styling package and not just performance figures (except BW where nearly the entire $30K premium is just for greater performance), although it is surprisingly almost never discussed in comparison to the TLX (I'm guessing because the Caddy is not in remotely the same league based on sales/segment market share). Still I doubt most would disagree that the TLX-S is an all-around better value. And this isn't a knock against Cadillac since to me the CT5-V/BW is the most compelling Cadillac product ever and possibly the best sedan that GM has ever produced (yeah I know that's not saying much).
Nice! You're basically taking the exact same route as me lol. Traded in my 21 Apex Blue A-Spec for a 22 Apex Blue Type-S a couple months ago with a similar wait time. The MY2022 is exactly the same, except for somewhat better fit and finish in the cabin compared to MY2021. Puddle lights still faulty though.
Definitely, A-Spec are hard to come by and I've seen some crazy prices online. They listed my (~5K) mile trade in for $48K and sold it in a week apparently for $46K, still more than I originally paid. The trade in offer they made was laughable (a little under $40K). I flat out told them that and they readily accepted my counter, although now I realize I probably could have gone even higher. Interestingly enough the intelliprice trade in estimator valued the car even higher than KBB or Edmunds. Since no one is offering any incentives on the Type-S and you are probably paying a non-negotiable mark up, all you're leverage and value opportunity is on the trade in side of the deal.
I'll probably see the biggest difference going from FWD to SH-AWD. Hopefully, I wont have the puddle lights issue.
Based on some of the lease figures being floated my way, I'm more than likely going to do an outright purchase as opposed to a lease....which will make this my first non-leased new car since the 90s.
EDIT: Looks like I wont see the Type S arrive until March. Until then, #ASPECLIFE!
On the contrary I think the TLX is exactly a "smart luxury" choice. The luxury/tech/convenience features you get vs any German offering already prove the value appeal, not to mention the greater peace of mind for long term ownership.
I disagree about the performance. I think a <5 sec 0-60 time and 13 sec 1/4 mile are good enough for this car and a far cry from slow. It wasn't that long ago more expensive M/AMG/RS/Porsches performance cars were making similar numbers. Not to mention that the handling is amazing as well, as exemplified in every professional review but glossed over by the YouTube crowd because it can't be quantified.
The performance here is just part of the larger overall package, whereas on something like a RWD performance Charger or Giulia Quad performance is the primary (or sole) appeal of those cars since they're weak in many other areas (durability, build quality, features, tech etc). I think the Type-S is nearly worth the premium over the Advance trim for the styling upgrades alone.
Note also that as with the turbo-4 cars Acura tuned the Type-S powertrain very conservatively. There are already YouTube videos of it getting 0-60 times under 4.5 sec with just some light mods (eg. downpipe) without any ECU tunes.
I completely agree with you that the TLX weighs too much (Type-S included), but it's not a deal breaker unless you absolutely want the fastest or most fuel efficient in the class, and it was an inevitable trade off for the torque vectoring SH-AWD and aggressive styling. It's worth noting that the most similar car to the TLX Type-S - the AWD Cadillac CT5-V - has virtually identical dimensions, weight, gas mileage, and performance.
Like the Type-S the CT5-V is a great product that's about the overall luxury/sport/styling package and not just performance figures (except BW where nearly the entire $30K premium is just for greater performance), although it is surprisingly almost never discussed in comparison to the TLX (I'm guessing because the Caddy is not in remotely the same league based on sales/segment market share). Still I doubt most would disagree that the TLX-S is an all-around better value. And this isn't a knock against Cadillac since to me the CT5-V/BW is the most compelling Cadillac product ever and possibly the best sedan that GM has ever produced (yeah I know that's not saying much).
If you want to mention price, sure it's cheaper. But you can't mention long term use and mods together. Note that the others can be modified too. As to shaving 0.5s just with a downpipe change, hmmm. Should have been done by Acura as of day one if that easy. Those little mods also start to add up, and you get close to BMW price.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 01-13-2022 at 04:04 PM.
If you want to mention price, sure it's cheaper. But you can't mention long term use and mods together. Note that the others can be modified too. As to shaving 0.5s just with a downpipe change, hmmm. Should have been done by Acura as of day one if that easy. Those little mods also start to add up, and you get close to BMW price.
I'm also curious about the "Long Term Ownership" thing. This engine was just released. There's no proof of reliability yet.
I disagree about the performance. I think a <5 sec 0-60 time and 13 sec 1/4 mile are good enough for this car and a far cry from slow. It wasn't that long ago more expensive M/AMG/RS/Porsches performance cars were making similar numbers. Not to mention that the handling is amazing as well, as exemplified in every professional review but glossed over by the YouTube crowd because it can't be quantified.
Will not debate you opinion one whether the car is slow or not. What is quick is a personal choice & based on experience. What I will say is a car that was once included & competitive in the magazine multicar performance tests no longer makes the cut. Have not seen one since Generation 4.
Few things this is the C&D test of my 320BHP 335is Car was a 2011 model. Is 2011 vs 2022 or 11 years not that long ago?
BTW if the new Type-S cannot run with a 2011 335 its would be destroyed by an M/AMG/RS/Porsches performance cars of the same period.
BMW 2011 335is vs 2022 Type S C/D TEST RESULTS: Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec - (4.9 sec) Zero to 100 mph: 11.4 sec - (12.6 sec) Zero to 140 mph: 25.7 sec - ( - ) Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.0 sec ( - )
Standing ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 108 mph - 13.6 sec @ 103 mph
For reliability Acura has been sketchy in recent years with bad transmissions, bad torque converters oil issues & minor stuff like puddle lights that don't light. Its running a new engine so there is as of right now no long term reliability info available. It might be great or might not be great. Honda has never built a great transmission & lost or abandoned class action suits on both MT & AT transmissions. Right now new engine, new transmission with no history to make a reliability claim against.
All manufactures have their hits & misses so I would not hang my hat on that. Final thing you really want to mod an unproven engine & bet your warranty on it?
As for handling I want to see the car pushed hard on a track by guys that compete not the usual YouTubers looking for a free trip to Laguna Seca. Track handling by drivers who actually compete & that really pushed it so a cars good points bad points & the clock says how fast they get around a road course..
TH looks like he didn’t know how to handle the shawd.
here is MAPerformance track impressions
Watching this is similar to other POV driving videos I've seen of both (the TLX-2.0T and the TLX-Type-S). When guys are driving it hard on curvy road or even highway entrance ramp ...
... when going around a gradual sweeping curve ... what's with all the slight back and forth steering or steering corrections ?
When I'm taking a gradual curve at high-speeds in my A5 (even maybe going 10mph over suggested limit on dry payment) ... I just hold the steering wheel steady and go around the curve.
Is it just my perception of the POV videos or is there something happening here. Are they losing traction? Is this what is called over-or-under steering ?
Last edited by Tesla1856; 01-13-2022 at 11:03 PM.
Reason: typo
I'm also curious about the "Long Term Ownership" thing. This engine was just released. There's no proof of reliability yet.
Without going as far to say that the TLX will certainly have excellent reliability, I think it's a fair assumption that reliability will be average/above average at worst given the brand's history.
Granted I'm not an expert on the subject but according to CR (which I trust over any other source): "Acura's rank is eighth overall [in reliability]. The TLX has exhibited impressive reliability in its first year after a redesign" For what it's worth JD Power (which I don't trust nearly as much) also ranked Acura pretty highly in dependability as well.
There are already a few nagging issues with the TLX and I suspect more to come in the future, but I suspect not at a rate/severity worse than any other competitor short of a Lexus IS/ES.
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
Will not debate you opinion one whether the car is slow or not. What is quick is a personal choice & based on experience. What I will say is a car that was once included & competitive in the magazine multicar performance tests no longer makes the cut. Have not seen one since Generation 4.
Few things this is the C&D test of my 320BHP 335is Car was a 2011 model. Is 2011 vs 2022 or 11 years not that long ago?
BTW if the new Type-S cannot run with a 2011 335 its would be destroyed by an M/AMG/RS/Porsches performance cars of the same period.
BMW 2011 335is vs 2022 Type S C/D TEST RESULTS: Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec - (4.9 sec) Zero to 100 mph: 11.4 sec - (12.6 sec) Zero to 140 mph: 25.7 sec - ( - ) Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.0 sec ( - )
Standing ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 108 mph - 13.6 sec @ 103 mph
For reliability Acura has been sketchy in recent years with bad transmissions, bad torque converters oil issues & minor stuff like puddle lights that don't light. Its running a new engine so there is as of right now no long term reliability info available. It might be great or might not be great. Honda has never built a great transmission & lost or abandoned class action suits on both MT & AT transmissions. Right now new engine, new transmission with no history to make a reliability claim against.
All manufactures have their hits & misses so I would not hang my hat on that. Final thing you really want to mod an unproven engine & bet your warranty on it?
As for handling I want to see the car pushed hard on a track by guys that compete not the usual YouTubers looking for a free trip to Laguna Seca. Track handling by drivers who actually compete & that really pushed it so a cars good points bad points & the clock says how fast they get around a road course..
Again if you look at the context of overall reliability across the industry, Acura has been more reliable than most, especially when it comes to catastrophic high-$$$ issues. (The abrupt 2G TL transmission failures notwithstanding.) As a BMW fan you would probably understand this more than anyone else.
Yes, you are correct regarding the 335is which was one of BMW's best performance values in recent memory. However, I was thinking back further in the early-mid 2000s when the 911 (996) was a 5 sec car to 60.
Nevertheless in that decade-ago timeframe the TLX-S would have been competitive with the Panemera 4:
C/D Test Results Zero to 60 mph: 5.0 sec Zero to 100 mph: 14.2 sec Standing ¼-mile: 13.8 sec @ 99 mph
60k for what? Looks like another basic 3 series with no huge changes. what a waste. Stick to the type s which looks way better. You want a real nice bmw you have to pony upwards of 70-80k plus
Your opinion.
Originally Posted by F23A4
Good info, and very telling evaluation in comparing the IS350 F-Sport and TLX Type S. The IS is one of the few Toyota products that I like, my favorite being the Tundra followed closely by their BMW Supra.
I officially threw my hat into the TLX Type S ring today, waiting for my store to receive a Performance Red/Ebony Type S to replace my Performance Red/Ebony A-Spec. I should be joining the Type S owner ranks come this February.
Congrats, hope it's worth it!
Originally Posted by TypeS22
how much is that pretty feller 60k we are comparing apples to apples within that price range. For 60k that 340 is garbage. You mean to tell me you’re going to spend 60k for that car and then actually add money to make it faster what a WASTE
Your opinion again...
I'm sorry but who are you again to tell anyone how to spend their own money?
You did make a statement about "money is money, if you have it spend it"
So, once aftermarket support for the TLX-S comes out, you don't think you or others will buy performance aftermarket parts to make the TLX-S quicker? You're leaving it stock?
I mean, it's smart not to modify the banks car, so you right about it being a waste.
I logged into the FB TLX group page and see a video of a type-s breaking into 12's and the comments reflect everything that has been beaten to death here as most here actually do care about performance but don't want to admit it.
You can modify any vehicle to make it quicker, food for thought.
Originally Posted by one4all
On the contrary I think the TLX is exactly a "smart luxury" choice. The luxury/tech/convenience features you get vs any German offering already prove the value appeal, not to mention the greater peace of mind for long term ownership.
I disagree about the performance. I think a <5 sec 0-60 time and 13 sec 1/4 mile are good enough for this car and a far cry from slow. It wasn't that long ago more expensive M/AMG/RS/Porsches performance cars were making similar numbers. Not to mention that the handling is amazing as well, as exemplified in every professional review but glossed over by the YouTube crowd because it can't be quantified.
The performance here is just part of the larger overall package, whereas on something like a RWD performance Charger or Giulia Quad performance is the primary (or sole) appeal of those cars since they're weak in many other areas (durability, build quality, features, tech etc). I think the Type-S is nearly worth the premium over the Advance trim for the styling upgrades alone.
Note also that as with the turbo-4 cars Acura tuned the Type-S powertrain very conservatively. There are already YouTube videos of it getting 0-60 times under 4.5 sec with just some light mods (eg. downpipe) without any ECU tunes.
I completely agree with you that the TLX weighs too much (Type-S included), but it's not a deal breaker unless you absolutely want the fastest or most fuel efficient in the class, and it was an inevitable trade off for the torque vectoring SH-AWD and aggressive styling. It's worth noting that the most similar car to the TLX Type-S - the AWD Cadillac CT5-V - has virtually identical dimensions, weight, gas mileage, and performance.
Like the Type-S the CT5-V is a great product that's about the overall luxury/sport/styling package and not just performance figures (except BW where nearly the entire $30K premium is just for greater performance), although it is surprisingly almost never discussed in comparison to the TLX (I'm guessing because the Caddy is not in remotely the same league based on sales/segment market share). Still I doubt most would disagree that the TLX-S is an all-around better value. And this isn't a knock against Cadillac since to me the CT5-V/BW is the most compelling Cadillac product ever and possibly the best sedan that GM has ever produced (yeah I know that's not saying much).
I disagree on the long term reliability thing. If you're actually part of the TLX FB groups, you are no stranger to the amount of issues posted there. I know some here are on there, so there's no way i'm making this up. A member on that page recently had all sorts of warning lights on his TLX and the thing sounded like it had a rod knock. I see some alarming issues being posted and keep in mind, that only accounts for less than 1% of actual owners. The TLX-S engine and transmission has not been long term tested. These vehicles not have hit any long term ownership. We can touch back in another 5 years to see how well they aged. I believe a lot are living in the past when Acura was more reliable. You can't ignore the bigger issues as small isolated issues and also as minor. Yes, the puddle lights, minor but why should the puddle lights fail so quickly into ownership? It's still annoying to go back and have them replaced just so they fail again a month later..
You also can't knock many previous Acura owners that had a ton of issues. You are on Acurazine, you can check out other sections to see if there are issues. I browsed in the RDX and MDX section and SOME of the issues I saw were not exactly minor or small.. I make my own judgement from things I read from current and past owners including speaking to Acura technicians or technicians in general to see what problems they are seeing. Part of several mechanic / technician groups. It will open your eyes for sure.
BTW, I thought we were past the performance thing? Story changes often on this.
Originally Posted by bilirubin
that 330i with its "M Performance Parts" banner on the windshield looks kinda chauchy IMO.
It's an M340i but good try. We did go over the differences, but I believe you were the one that said "Look at the badges" because Acura wears a ton of type-s badges so people know it's a type-s not a base model.
Originally Posted by Kense
I'm also curious about the "Long Term Ownership" thing. This engine was just released. There's no proof of reliability yet.
5 years from now, we can come back to this and see who was correct.
I'll let you know once I work out all the numbers...come March it seems. If the ecos arent right, I'll pay off the A-Spec (thank you AFS) and then immediately flip into an M340i xDrive.
I disagree on the long term reliability thing. If you're actually part of the TLX FB groups, you are no stranger to the amount of issues posted there. I know some here are on there, so there's no way i'm making this up. A member on that page recently had all sorts of warning lights on his TLX and the thing sounded like it had a rod knock. I see some alarming issues being posted and keep in mind, that only accounts for less than 1% of actual owners. The TLX-S engine and transmission has not been long term tested. These vehicles not have hit any long term ownership. We can touch back in another 5 years to see how well they aged. I believe a lot are living in the past when Acura was more reliable. You can't ignore the bigger issues as small isolated issues and also as minor. Yes, the puddle lights, minor but why should the puddle lights fail so quickly into ownership? It's still annoying to go back and have them replaced just so they fail again a month later..
You also can't knock many previous Acura owners that had a ton of issues. You are on Acurazine, you can check out other sections to see if there are issues. I browsed in the RDX and MDX section and SOME of the issues I saw were not exactly minor or small.. I make my own judgement from things I read from current and past owners including speaking to Acura technicians or technicians in general to see what problems they are seeing. Part of several mechanic / technician groups. It will open your eyes for sure.
BTW, I thought we were past the performance thing? Story changes often on this.
I believe that half the purpose of automotive forums is specifically for owners to discuss issues and problems with their vehicles, so I would expect to see plenty of that discussed at length here. Whether the problems indicate widespread subpar build quality or reliability is another story. As I mentioned in my last post, it's worth noting how the severity and frequency of these issues compare to problems on other vehicles.
I would also be cautious as viewing single anecdotal incidents as pervasive problems. For instance my 2¢: My 4G TL didn't have a single problem the five years I owned the vehicle, besides a HVAC blower replaced under warranty. My 3G TL (which had over 50K miles when I acquired it) was less reliable but still decent - had to replace engine mounts, front compliance bushings, and leaking oil pump. But this is just my experience that anyone else should take with a grain of salt. If multiple owners report the same issues (such as the puddle lights issue) then obviously it's more of a problem. This is why I trust CR's reliability ratings since they actually survey multiple owners of each vehicle to assess reliability.
If I went by Audiworld/bimmerpost/benzworld in judging the reliability of the B9/G20/W205 I wouldn't touch any of those cars with a 10' pole. BMW especially has some pretty eye-opening horror stories that I've never seen for any Honda/Acura product. Also YT's favorite mechanic ScottyKilmer always seems to have some "choice" words for BMW and Audi, and to a lesser extent M-B. Same thing for the many long-term tests I've read for German models. That said these things are just pieces of the puzzle when you do your research and personally wouldn't totally dissuade me from acquiring a German vehicle, but possibly lease instead of buy (which I'm generally opposed to) and I would never consider any M/AMG/S that was in a condition other than brand new or with very low miles. I would also plan on not keeping the vehicle past warranty.
Originally Posted by F23A4View Post
I disagree on the long term reliability thing. If you're actually part of the TLX FB groups, you are no stranger to the amount of issues posted there. I know some here are on there, so there's no way i'm making this up. A member on that page recently had all sorts of warning lights on his TLX and the thing sounded like it had a rod knock. I see some alarming issues being posted and keep in mind, that only accounts for less than 1% of actual owners. The TLX-S engine and transmission has not been long term tested. These vehicles not have hit any long term ownership. We can touch back in another 5 years to see how well they aged. I believe a lot are living in the past when Acura was more reliable. You can't ignore the bigger issues as small isolated issues and also as minor. Yes, the puddle lights, minor but why should the puddle lights fail so quickly into ownership? It's still annoying to go back and have them replaced just so they fail again a month later..
You also can't knock many previous Acura owners that had a ton of issues. You are on Acurazine, you can check out other sections to see if there are issues. I browsed in the RDX and MDX section and SOME of the issues I saw were not exactly minor or small.. I make my own judgement from things I read from current and past owners including speaking to Acura technicians or technicians in general to see what problems they are seeing. Part of several mechanic / technician groups. It will open your eyes for sure.
BTW, I thought we were past the performance thing? Story changes often on this.
I believe that half the purpose of automotive forums is specifically for owners to discuss issues and problems with their vehicles, so I would expect to see plenty of that discussed at length here. Whether the problems indicate widespread subpar build quality or reliability is another story. As I mentioned in my last post, it's worth noting how the severity and frequency of these issues compare to problems on other vehicles.
I would also be cautious as viewing single anecdotal incidents as pervasive problems. For instance my 2¢: My 4G TL didn't have a single problem the five years I owned the vehicle, besides a HVAC blower replaced under warranty. My 3G TL (which had over 50K miles when I acquired it) was less reliable but still decent - had to replace engine mounts, front compliance bushings, and leaking oil pump. But this is just my experience that anyone else should take with a grain of salt. If multiple owners report the same issues (such as the puddle lights issue) then obviously it's more of a problem. This is why I trust CR's reliability ratings since they actually survey multiple owners of each vehicle to assess reliability.
If I went by Audiworld/bimmerpost/benzworld in judging the reliability of the B9/G20/W205 I wouldn't touch any of those cars with a 10' pole. BMW especially has some pretty eye-opening horror stories that I've never seen for any Honda/Acura product. Also YT's favorite mechanic ScottyKilmer always seems to have some "choice" words for BMW and Audi, and to a lesser extent M-B. Same thing for the many long-term tests I've read for German models. That said these things are just pieces of the puzzle when you do your research and personally wouldn't totally dissuade me from acquiring a German vehicle, but possibly lease instead of buy (which I'm generally opposed to) and I would never consider any M/AMG/S that was in a condition other than brand new or with very low miles. I would also plan on not keeping the vehicle past warranty.
Again if you look at the context of overall reliability across the industry, Acura has been more reliable than most, especially when it comes to catastrophic high-$$$ issues. (The abrupt 2G TL transmission failures notwithstanding.) As a BMW fan you would probably understand this more than anyone else.
Yes, you are correct regarding the 335is which was one of BMW's best performance values in recent memory. However, I was thinking back further in the early-mid 2000s when the 911 (996) was a 5 sec car to 60.
Nevertheless in that decade-ago timeframe the TLX-S would have been competitive with the Panemera 4:
You really want to compare a brand new development to cars 11-15 years old? How about comparing it to a 12 year old TL-S that shows what Acura produced after 12 years of waiting & hoping. Been interesting to watch the forums translon from it will be an "M" killer to the numbers don't matter.
C/D TEST RESULTS: 2010 Acura TL-S Zero to 60 mph: 5.2 sec Zero to 100 mph: 13.5 sec 1/4-mile: 13.8 sec @ 101 mph
Zero to 130 mph: 26.5 sec
Regarding maintenance two stories. Leased cars don't count as both warranty & maintenance was free as long as I had them very few shop visits most items taken car of at the annual state EPA inspection. No on the road breakdowns & no expensive repairs. All were tuned versions either factory or JB-4. Same with owned cars 10 & 9 years. About $2500 out of pocket excluding brakes & tires. No on the road breakdowns & most fixes one day unless waiting for parts. Both were tuned one factory & one JB-4
Last regarding this you best do more searches maybe my TL posts here in the 2006 to 2011 time frame. current TLX 9 speeds were not the first. My 6MT was replaced under TSB along with many others. My daughter got an new AT under the terms on a class action suite. Honda/Acura typically denies a problem as long as they can then quietly settles with a TSB. Much of its reliability is questionable at least. Every forum here has at least a few stories to tell if you look for them. .
If I went by Audiworld/bimmerpost/benzworld in judging the reliability of the B9/G20/W205 I wouldn't touch any of those cars with a 10' pole. BMW especially has some pretty eye-opening horror stories that I've never seen for any Honda/Acura product. Also YT's favorite mechanic ScottyKilmer always seems to have some "choice" words for BMW and Audi, and to a lesser extent M-B. Same thing for the many long-term tests I've read for German models. That said these things are just pieces of the puzzle when you do your research and personally wouldn't totally dissuade me from acquiring a German vehicle, but possibly lease instead of buy (which I'm generally opposed to) and I would never consider any M/AMG/S that was in a condition other than brand new or with very low miles. I would also plan on not keeping the vehicle past warranty.
my sentiments exactly, my mom and my dad especially expressed how it would be better to lease a German car than buying one. And I hold true to that ideology. I would love to jump into a M5 or a C63S AMG but I would not buy them, just lease one (1-2 years old or newer) for the experience and return it when the lease is up.
sidenote: i love Scotty he’s funny but he makes good points and knows what he’s talking about for the most part. I loved the review he did on the 1st Gen TLX he nailed it!
whats wrong with those numbers on the 2022? How does it take 12.6 to get to 100mph, but 13.6 to get to 103 in the 1/4? One or the other cant be right
You will have to ask C&D. Its their numbers. Post another magazines numbers like MT or R&T from both years & see what you get. I generally only use C&D as they use the same procedures & algorithms to level the tests car to car. Here is what Edmunds said
Edmunds said this 2010 TL-S 6MT
0-45 mph (sec.) 3.7
0-60 mph (sec.) 5.6
0-75 mph (sec.) 8.1
1/4-mile (sec. @ mph) 13.9 @ 100.1
0-60 with 1 foot of rollout (sec.) 5.3
Did not see a line by line speed measurement for the 2022 all I saw was: Acura estimates that the Type S can cover 0-60 mph in about 5 seconds, which feels accurate from the driver's seat.
TLX Type S is powered by a turbocharged 3.0-liter V6 putting out 355 horsepower and 354 lb-ft of torque. That means it has more power than any Acura Type S vehicle that's come before it and will be on par with the upgraded six-cylinder engines found in the likes of the Audi S4 and BMW M340i.
I am relisting the whole C&D performance box incase I messed up a cut & paste.
2010C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 26.5 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.8 sec @ 101 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 134 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 171 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g
Watching this is similar to other POV driving videos I've seen of both (the TLX-2.0T and the TLX-Type-S). When guys are driving it hard on curvy road or even highway entrance ramp ...
... when going around a gradual sweeping curve ... what's with all the slight back and forth steering or steering corrections ?
When I'm taking a gradual curve at high-speeds in my A5 (even maybe going 10mph over suggested limit on dry payment) ... I just hold the steering wheel steady and go around the curve.
Is it just my perception of the POV videos or is there something happening here. Are they losing traction? Is this what is called over-or-under steering ?
Have no idea why they are doing it on the street, if they need to saw the wheel they are in stupid fast mode, Most likely past their ability not the cars,
Suggest you watch some car testing for time vids at the Ring. Not just BMW's but ride along with any street car running top times. These guys are pros riding the 10/10ths edge. The cars are in a lot of places are losing traction & the drivers are bringing them back. That is the difference between them & the rest of us. If anyone ever gets the chance for a 10/10 ride with a pro driver its something you will never forget. I had a few laps run in SC with Johan Schwartzthe BMW instructor & factory driver that at the time was the world record drift holder. Its definitely a "we are all going to die experience".
BMW driving instructor Johan Schwartz drifted an all-new BMW M5 sedan 232.5 miles around a skid pad at the BMW Performance Center in Greer, SC, setting a new GUINNESS WORLD RECORDS title for the Greatest distance vehicle drift in 8 hours. This involved another one of the instructors drifting next to him so a guy could refuel the car on the move.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-14-2022 at 04:03 PM.
01-11-2022, 11:13 PM
congrats, the Performance Red is good for 0.3s reduction in 1/4 mile. 
