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Acura, and the local Acura dealers, kindly brought out both the TLX Typs S and the MDX Type S. I had a chance to briefly speak with Jon Ikeda last evening, and told him how much I loved my 3G TL (I was one of the first buyers in 2004). He told me how much better the new TLX Type S was, and gave me his ideas about our beloved UA5/UA6. First time I’ve seen the Type S in person.
The Tiger Eye Pearl has the regular wheels (and some ATLP/Heeltoe stickers, looks like aftermarket is already working on this), and the blue car (the spec I’d buy) has the NSX-inspired wheels. I will ask for a test drive here but if not possible, I’ll get off my butt and finally test drive one upon my return to Cleveland. I let the Acura folks know I am an actual customer.
I’ll still wait until next model year for a purchase to allow the quirks to be sorted out, and the ADMs to go away, but this car looks really promising. The designers deserve a raise. Will post my usual verbose neuronbob review once I get some seat time. I’m going to beg and wheedle to get that seat time while I’m here
As an aside, I met @Heeltoe_Automotive in person here, he’s already planning some aftermarket stuff for the Type S. Gave me some nice info on the car that further makes me want to drive it. I’ve “e-known” him for many years on this forum.
I know you’ve seen plenty of pics of the car, but here you are. Wish I’d had presence of mind to get a shot with Jon Ikeda.
Acura, and the local Acura dealers, kindly brought out both the TLX Typs S and the MDX Type S. I had a chance to briefly speak with Jon Ikeda last evening, and told him how much I loved my 3G TL (I was one of the first buyers in 2004). He told me how much better the new TLX Type S was, and gave me his ideas about our beloved UA5/UA6. First time I’ve seen the Type S in person.
The Tiger Eye Pearl has the regular wheels (and some ATLP/Heeltoe stickers, looks like aftermarket is already working on this), and the blue car (the spec I’d buy) has the NSX-inspired wheels. I will ask for a test drive here but if not possible, I’ll get off my butt and finally test drive one upon my return to Cleveland. I let the Acura folks know I am an actual customer.
I’ll still wait until next model year for a purchase to allow the quirks to be sorted out, and the ADMs to go away, but this car looks really promising. The designers deserve a raise. Will post my usual verbose neuronbob review once I get some seat time. I’m going to beg and wheedle to get that seat time while I’m here
As an aside, I met @Heeltoe_Automotive in person here, he’s already planning some aftermarket stuff for the Type S. Gave me some nice info on the car that further makes me want to drive it. I’ve “e-known” him for many years on this forum.
I know you’ve seen plenty of pics of the car, but here you are. Wish I’d had presence of mind to get a shot with Jon Ikeda.
I did some business with Marcus from HeelToe in 2015. It wasn't perfect, little rocky but I appreciate what he does.
I hate how the radar is this tacky plastic shield thing on the TLX and completely gone on the MDX.
Expect the bigger shield on the MDX holds it all. The TLX butter dish background does not look good. Noticed how its edited out in a lot of the TLX promotional pieces.
Based on the size of the MDX, those Brembo brakes look small in comparison to the TLX
Agree. Pitifully small against the 21" wheels. It looks like the MDX-S front Brembo calipers are in fact smaller in dimension compared to those on the TLX-S.
[QUOTE=Edward'TLS;16745805]Agree. Pitifully small against the 21" wheels. It looks like the MDX-S front Brembo calipers are in fact smaller in dimension compared to those on the TLX-S.[/
I don’t think they are smaller it looks as if the wheels spokes are blocking some of the brembo brakes making them appear smaller.
I’m still traveling home from NSXPO (I drove my NSX from CLE to Portland for the event), so haven’t followed the thread. I should finally arrive home tomorrow sometime. Acura is dead serious about making the TLX and Type S concept work out. I hope they succeed.
Acura is dead serious about making the TLX and Type S concept work out.
A little hard to believe given their uncompetitive specs out of the gate. I'm curious what their explanation is (reliability? cost?) and how they can still claim to be a performance brand, yet ignore other ways they could've made up for it (e.g. by offering a 6MT, digital dash, full Advance options, etc).
Hell, even Cadillac went all out and offered a manual on its new Blackwing cars despite the low take rates, knowing full well it would be a huge differentiator and image booster.
The more I think about the S, the more I think the power shortage is not it’s worst sin. I know this has been discussed at length, but I think the worst sin is the compromises on some features that are common in the cars they are going after. There should be two versions of the S. An “Advance” or whatever they want to call it with things like HUD, Power Steering Wheel (admittedly not on some competitors) and a few other things that have been mentioned.
given that the car could probably bring 5 Series owners (like I was) into the car, and the fact that all of its competitors except Genesis/Kia already reach to and we’ll above the $60,000 mark, a $4,000 option package makes complete sense.
The more I think about the S, the more I think the power shortage is not it’s worst sin. I know this has been discussed at length, but I think the worst sin is the compromises on some features that are common in the cars they are going after. There should be two versions of the S. An “Advance” or whatever they want to call it with things like HUD, Power Steering Wheel (admittedly not on some competitors) and a few other things that have been mentioned.
given that the car could probably bring 5 Series owners (like I was) into the car, and the fact that all of its competitors except Genesis/Kia already reach to and we’ll above the $60,000 mark, a $4,000 option package makes complete sense.
agreed. There should have been an advanced version of the type s for people who are willing to pay that extra amount. Unfortunately if we look at Acura trend in refreshing, we won’t see an update until 2-3 years from now
The more I think about the S, the more I think the power shortage is not it’s worst sin. I know this has been discussed at length, but I think the worst sin is the compromises on some features that are common in the cars they are going after. There should be two versions of the S. An “Advance” or whatever they want to call it with things like HUD, Power Steering Wheel (admittedly not on some competitors) and a few other things that have been mentioned.
given that the car could probably bring 5 Series owners (like I was) into the car, and the fact that all of its competitors except Genesis/Kia already reach to and we’ll above the $60,000 mark, a $4,000 option package makes complete sense.
Agree. Also strange since Canadian models get everything included already with HUD as the only missing option. I'm sure that you will see these added on maybe even in 2022 model. Right now the market is a mess so they will probably move every S they make without offering any invlcentives.
The more I think about the S, the more I think the power shortage is not it’s worst sin. I know this has been discussed at length, but I think the worst sin is the compromises on some features that are common in the cars they are going after. There should be two versions of the S. An “Advance” or whatever they want to call it with things like HUD, Power Steering Wheel (admittedly not on some competitors) and a few other things that have been mentioned.
given that the car could probably bring 5 Series owners (like I was) into the car, and the fact that all of its competitors except Genesis/Kia already reach to and we’ll above the $60,000 mark, a $4,000 option package makes complete sense.
It's a shame that Acura seems to have no interest in luxury these days
“We are a performance brand first and foremost – we haven’t talked about luxury in quite a while now,” Ikeda says. In fact, Acura doesn’t use luxury in its primary messaging anymore, recalling the first two years of the brand’s existence, when the word was nowhere to be found in any official marketing. “The L word,” as Ikeda puts it, is not Acura’s focus. “We’re getting that feeling of fun and optimism coming back into our performance image.”
Seems like Acura is trying to be the poor man's Porsche, but at least Porsche allows you to add all the luxury features if you want (if your wallet can handle it).
The more I think about the S, the more I think the power shortage is not it’s worst sin. I know this has been discussed at length, but I think the worst sin is the compromises on some features that are common in the cars they are going after. There should be two versions of the S. An “Advance” or whatever they want to call it with things like HUD, Power Steering Wheel (admittedly not on some competitors) and a few other things that have been mentioned.
given that the car could probably bring 5 Series owners (like I was) into the car, and the fact that all of its competitors except Genesis/Kia already reach to and we’ll above the $60,000 mark, a $4,000 option package makes complete sense.
you do know that the MDX Type S will have all the Advance right?
It's a shame that Acura seems to have no interest in luxury these days
Seems like Acura is trying to be the poor man's Porsche, but at least Porsche allows you to add all the luxury features if you want (if your wallet can handle it).
WTF? That Ikeda quote seems both odd and wrong to me. Forget about the brand messaging... look at the cars. Integra, Vigor, Legend. Those weren't performance cars. They were luxury versions of the Civic and Accord. Leather, power everything, etc. Then the second gen of cars like RSX, CL, TL, RL and MDX. Those weren't performance cars. They were luxury versions of Civic, Prelude, Accord and Pilot. Certain version of those may have been performance oriented and fun to drive. TL Type S, Integra Type R, RSX Type S... But suggesting the Integra sedan with a 4 banger and auto slushbox was a car from a "performance brand" must be a joke. The NSX is the only respectable performance car they've ever made. It's over $100k, <1% of their sales and is more a collectable halo car than a daily driver.
Acura has never had a rear drive or anything bigger than a V6. Amazingly, with the Ikeda quote in mind, they just released a "performance sedan" that comes in dead last in every race or time trial and is being defended as "well it was never meant to be a race or track car." What do these people think the definition of performance is? A car as fast as an Accord 2.0T?
Ikeda sounds at best confused and at worst delusional. This is exactly why the brand has zero identity. Not as fast as performance cars. Not as opulent as luxury cars. Can't compete with brands that manage to do both. That's a bad long term recipe for success.
WTF? That Ikeda quote seems both odd and wrong to me. Forget about the brand messaging... look at the cars. Integra, Vigor, Legend. Those weren't performance cars. They were luxury versions of the Civic and Accord. Leather, power everything, etc. Then the second gen of cars like RSX, CL, TL, RL and MDX. Those weren't performance cars. They were luxury versions of Civic, Prelude and Accord. Certain version of those may have been performance oriented and fun to drive. TL Type S, Integra Type R, RSX Type S... But suggesting the Integra sedan with a 4 banger and auto was a car from a "performance brand" must be a joke. The NSX is the only respectable performance car they've ever made. It's over $100k, <1% of their sales and is more a collectable halo car than a daily driver.
Acura has never had a rear drive or anything bigger than a V6. Amazingly, with the Ikeda quote in mind, they just released a "performance sedan" that comes in dead last in every race or time trial and is being defended as "well it was never meant to be a race or track car." What do these people think the definition of performance is? A car as fast as an Accord 2.0T?
Ikeda sounds at best confused and at worst delusional. This is exactly why the brand has zero identity. Not as fast as performance cars. Not as opulent as luxury cars. Can't compete with brands that manage to do both. That's a bad long term recipe for success.
I think they're trying to move the goalposts. They've probably realized that both the hard product and soft product cannot compete with the luxury competition, Gensis has undeniably surpassed them in terms of luxury, Volvo is pulling away from them in terms of luxury, and Mazda is starting to move upmarket and are encroaching on them as well. The only saving grace they have is SH-AWD and (in general) the know-how from Honda to build good engines and well-handling cars.
What I do find interesting is that even the fanboys in the FB group are now starting to shit on Acura for having poor customer service. Lots of reports of dealership horror stories and Acura Customer Relations being unwilling to do anything to make things right. Every time I read the posts and comments I think, "Yup, I know that feeling." Maybe this is the kick in the pants Acura needs to finally figure out how to retain existing customers.
I think they're trying to move the goalposts. They've probably realized that both the hard product and soft product cannot compete with the luxury competition, Gensis has undeniably surpassed them in terms of luxury, Volvo is pulling away from them in terms of luxury, and Mazda is starting to move upmarket and are encroaching on them as well. The only saving grace they have is SH-AWD and (in general) the know-how from Honda to build good engines and well-handling cars.
What I do find interesting is that even the fanboys in the FB group are now starting to shit on Acura for having poor customer service. Lots of reports of dealership horror stories and Acura Customer Relations being unwilling to do anything to make things right. Every time I read the posts and comments I think, "Yup, I know that feeling." Maybe this is the kick in the pants Acura needs to finally figure out how to retain existing customers.
Amen to all of this. Trusted Acura when buying my 1G. How bad could a Honda powertrain and car be right? Vibrates on expressway, can't shift right, doesn't know when to shift, wipers don't work, ZF9 pops into neutral, ACC locks out. My dealership was pretty good with mine, but horror stories from others were truly horrible. Those people are long gone from the brand.
None of these NSXPO or Laguna Seca or event anywhere else they want to schlep around their cars for photos ops will matter. Bad service turned me away likely for life (I won't say never again). But I'll never again buy a car that isn't the best at what it does and Acura has none of those except the NSX that I would buy as a toy when my kids are up and out of here. Acura needs to refocus and quit with the empty promises.
Thx for the pics, if you have any more info from your Jon Ikeda conversation please post.
I can't post everything I heard, but do know that Acura has heard the criticism about the TLX Type S. I'd give them a chance to implement changes. Not defending, just stating.
I can't post everything I heard, but do know that Acura has heard the criticism about the TLX Type S. I'd give them a chance to implement changes. Not defending, just stating.
In the short term there isn't much they can do about the engine.
But they can easily fix two (unforgivable) problems:
Give it the tech available on lesser TLXs and Accords, e.g. HUD, 360 degree camera. It already exists, so not one cent of development is required. Make it an Advance option,, but do something about it.
Second, like all Honda Corp vehicles, the color choices and exterior/interior combinations suck. Why are some colors, like Silver, only on any TLX that isn't a Type-S? Why can't I have any TLX exterior color with any existing interior? I'm not alone in this, my wife and daughter (both of whom have owned multiple Honda/Acura vehicles) also hate the few allowed choices.
I can't post everything I heard, but do know that Acura has heard the criticism about the TLX Type S. I'd give them a chance to implement changes. Not defending, just stating.
I guess at least this is better than sticking their heads in the sand and continuing to pat each other on the back for a job well done.
Did they happen to mention why they didn't anticipate this type of criticism? Surely they knew what the on-paper performance would be; did they think enthusiasts would be happy with it?
In the short term there isn't much they can do about the engine.
But they can easily fix two (unforgivable) problems:
Give it the tech available on lesser TLXs and Accords, e.g. HUD, 360 degree camera. It already exists, so not one cent of development is required. Make it an Advance option,, but do something about it.
Second, like all Honda Corp vehicles, the color choices and exterior/interior combinations suck. Why are some colors, like Silver, only on any TLX that isn't a Type-S? Why can't I have any TLX exterior color with any existing interior? I'm not alone in this, my wife and daughter (both of whom have owned multiple Honda/Acura vehicles) also hate the few allowed choices.
The former is definitely a glaring caveat; makes me wonder if they’re going pull the old PMC card at some point. I’m indifferent on the latter. Pretty much comes in the combos I’d likely choose.
I guess at least this is better than sticking their heads in the sand and continuing to pat each other on the back for a job well done.
Did they happen to mention why they didn't anticipate this type of criticism? Surely they knew what the on-paper performance would be; did they think enthusiasts would be happy with it?
I’m not convinced that they won’t stick their heads in the sand still. But, I agree with your line of questioning. Any indication Bob?
Agreed that it's nice they acknowledge the criticism, but I honestly don't think there's going to be major changes. There is likely a good reason the power is what it is, and I still suspect it's limitations in the drivetrain. I doubt they're going to put more power into this generation of Type-S, and if they do, I suspect it to be very modest.
They may add the Advance features, but I also doubt those will come free of charge. Maybe they'll add a Type-S+ or some other nomenclature for people who want all the features.
Originally Posted by F23A4
The former is definitely a glaring caveat; makes me wonder if they’re going pull the old PMC card at some point. I’m indifferent on the latter. Pretty much comes in the combos I’d likely choose.
... or this. They should really offer it in Nardo Grey (or similar) with black wheels. I personally love that look on the German cars and even the IS500 Launch Edition. I think the Type-S would also look spectacular in that color combo.
I guess at least this is better than sticking their heads in the sand and continuing to pat each other on the back for a job well done.
Did they happen to mention why they didn't anticipate this type of criticism? Surely they knew what the on-paper performance would be; did they think enthusiasts would be happy with it?
Bob didn’t suggest Acura was willing or able to do anything to address this criticism. Just that they heard it. That sounds to me like “Yeah, we spent years developing this sedan, understood exactly what it was and wasn’t, knew it was competent and capable in some areas, but would be last against its peers in speed and lap times. But it never was suppose to be a race car and every single one we make will sell whether or not we invest more to make any changes.” I bet they are hearing exactly what they expected, but if it mattered to them, they wouldn’t have released a car that warranted such criticism. This is clearly a profit margin car, not a performance super sport sedan.
Acura is a transition brand. As you do a little better with household income, you probably graduate to the Germans.
Folks that fondly remember the Integra and Legend have most likely moved on so they can afford to underwhelm and only appease newcomers to the brand.
I do hope I'm wrong but Acura has shown me nothing that proves otherwise.
I agree. With that said, I'm ready to transition back from Audi to Acura. I'm likely getting the TLX Type S next year (assuming no dealer mark ups), but I'm curious to see what the Integra has to offer and might hold out. If it has 300+ hp and AWD, I'm in.
I agree. With that said, I'm ready to transition back from Audi to Acura. I'm likely getting the TLX Type S next year (assuming no dealer mark ups), but I'm curious to see what the Integra has to offer and might hold out. If it has 300+ hp and AWD, I'm in.
It's probably not a bad move to wait.
I fully expect the Integra to be lighter, faster, and more fuel efficient!
I can't post everything I heard, but do know that Acura has heard the criticism about the TLX Type S. I'd give them a chance to implement changes. Not defending, just stating.
Understood, did you take your son along for the trip?
Perhaps you're in Tyson's NSXPO video
Did they actually divulge confidential info to attendees? If so, kinda strange they would share anything like that outside of dealers.
One would think that if there was no NDA signed, then anything would be fair game
The only confidential info released to the group was the full style of the NSX Type S, which was released five days later. We were made to relinquish our phones and recording devices for that part of the keynote speech from Mr. Ikeda. As far as TLX Type S changes, no info given to the group, but I did hear about a couple of upcoming changes.
No TLX Type S at my dealer for test drives, and there are around 10 on the waiting list, according to my conversation with my salesguy today. Each Type S coming into the dealer is already spoken for. It'll be quite a while before supply will be good enough to allow a test drive, it appears.
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
Understood, did you take your son along for the trip?
Perhaps you're in Tyson's NSXPO video
I took my 15 year old on the trip. Was a great "guys trip" for us, made some memories.
ETA: I'm in that video, A LOT. My car is at 2:37 and 3:00, and I'm in a white shirt in the background from about 0:46-1:12 and 1:22-1:25. Tyson is great in person, I've met him at a number of XPOs now.
I took my 15 year old on the trip. Was a great "guys trip" for us, made some memories.
ETA: I'm in that video, A LOT. My car is at 2:37 and 3:00, and I'm in a white shirt in the background from about 0:46-1:12 and 1:22-1:25. Tyson is great in person, I've met him at a number of XPOs now.
+1, Best things are making life experiences and memories.
FWIW, if you ever get a chance strongly recommend a Concurs weekend. Had some great memories meeting all kinds of car folks at Amelia Concurs from 2014-17
Tyson seems like a laid back guy but passionate about his cars.
. As far as TLX Type S changes, no info given to the group, but I did hear about a couple of upcoming changes.
No TLX Type S at my dealer for test drives, and there are around 10 on the waiting list, according to my conversation with my salesguy today. Each Type S coming into the dealer is already spoken for. It'll be quite a while before supply will be good enough to allow a test drive, it appears.
Let me guess:
Touchscreen functionality in addition to the touchpad AND/OR
Touchscreen functionality in addition to the touchpad AND/OR
The addition of the HUD for the Type S
Correct?
#2 is what I heard.
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
FWIW, if you ever get a chance strongly recommend a Concurs weekend. Had some great memories meeting all kinds of car folks at Amelia Concurs from 2014-17
08-07-2021, 10:17 AM
