4G-Lover

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

0-60 4.8
0-100 12.9.
5-60 5.6

1/4 13.5 @ 102

Skidpad 0.97g

Acura TLX

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

0-60 5.9
0-100 15.3
5-60 6.5

1/4 14.5 @ 97

Skidpad 0.87g

The Audi is 300 lbs lighter and (theoretically) with 11 less HP.


No way to spin it, this look fairly bad for the TLX.

Colorado Guy AF Ret.

Weight is a BIG difference. Maybe the base TLX could use the Civic Type R engine at 306 hp! LOL....but, I'm not sure that buyers care so strongly about being able to
beat the Audi in a drag race. Is that what you think MOST buyers are wanting from their TLX? I don't. Quick, smooth, handling, quality, braking, ride...etc, are the criteria
that many will use...and what you get, in a total car....for the money. They may have over shot the pricing and maybe that's why they are slow to get "out of the gate." But,
I believe the quality is there and they are quick enough and fun to drive. I do think, the Type S will be THE TLX to have for real "enthusiasts."

BEAR-AvHistory

Another number set from C&D
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
BMW M340 382BHP
60 mph: 3.8 sec
100 mph: 9.4 sec
5–60 mph: 4.7 sec
¼-mile: 12.3 sec @ 114 mph
300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.96 g

Sports-Sedan Rivals: Alfa Giulia vs. BMW 3-series vs. Genesis G70 vs. Volvo S60
BMW 330 255 BHP
60 mph 5.1 sec
100 mph13.8 sec
1/4 mile 13.8 sec @ 100
300-ft-dia skidpad 0.99 g

Mercedes AMG C43 385 BHP
Zero to 60 mph: 4.1 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.6 sec @ 111 mph
300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.93 g

Think the point is forgetting the raw power based performance disparity for a moment its the 0.87 vs 0.97, 0.96, 0.99, 0.95 handling numbers that jump out when you advertise its a sports sedan. Even the 4 cylinder 2.0L versions of these cars turn in good handling numbers

0.92 Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport Q2
0.99 BMW 330
0.94 Genesis G70 2.0T
0.92 Volvo S60 T5 Momentum

Braking from 70 MPH the TLX takes up to 23 more feet to stop compared to these 2L's

Its like the newsies when they get hold of a word like gravitas & they all start to regurgitate it. Sports Sedan seems to be the word for the magazines & YouTube for anything on 4 wheels with 4 doors & a motor.

Acura might have a sports sedan with the TypeS but the certainly are not there yet. Something that can run the Tail of the Dragon or a two lane moonshine road with poised & confidence at speed.

bilirubin

this was already discussed in the "2021 Acura TLX vs The Competition" thread
https://acurazine.com/forums/second-generation-tlx-2021-466/2021-acura-tlx-vs-competition-990315/page5/

izzle22

Audi A4 - $54,000 - Ouch!!

Why everyone keeps comparing a $48,000 car to $55,000 and up cars is just ridiculous. I get the TLX 2.0 isn't a super car but it's got quite a bit for the money and 1 second off the line isn't worth $6000 or more to me.

leomio85

Agreed, but at the same time, I think these numbers are going to be close to what the Type-S will be doing, and that will be the same price. Despite having the HP advantage, performance numbers are going to be similar to what this A4 is putting out. That's quite a disparity in performance, but like you said, it comes at a cost. However, when the Type-S is likely to be putting out the same numbers at the same price, it's going to be a hard sell for Acura when this isn't even the performance variant for Audi (see: S4). So, now you're charging as much as a more prestigious brand and the only advantage you have is horsepower while not having a performance advantage. For me, I'd still opt for the TLX, merely for the fact that German engineering makes me want to punch myself in the scrotum when I see service photos and/or videos for most serviceable items (I prefer to own my cars and work on them myself). But, for others who don't care for such things, it'll be hard to justify the Acura over a brand like Audi when a majority of people in the market for either of them will be leasing them, when reliability is actually favorable with the German brands.

izzle22

Yes. Definitely. If you want to compare the not yet released TLX Type S to these cars that is an argument to be had. The Type S may not live up to what it is expected against vehicles that are supposed to be below it's class. All that being said the continuous bashing of the current 2021 TLX against much higher priced cars by folks who haven't even driven one is getting quite old. I come on to these forums to get information and for the entertainment aspects. Only to see day after day people who don't have a new TLX or even an Acura for that matter constantly bash the 1 second short zero to 60 of the 2021 TLX. It's like Rainman: Definitely 1 second slower, Definitely 1 second slower, Definitely 1 second slower.

4G-Lover

Base price difference between the Acura and the Audi is just a bit more than one grand......

The TLX puts out the same numbers as my 2002 Maxima SE.......almost 20 years ago......

izzle22

Audi- PRICE AS TESTED
$53,840
TLX- PRICE AS TESTED
$49,325

Price difference = $4515 Lot more than 1 grand. To me anyway............

2002 Maxima was a v6?

Acura looks a hell of a lot better and has a lot more to offer than your "2002 Maxima" and the Audi in my opinion. Buuuuut that's just my opinion.........

4G-Lover

You do not have to load an A4 to the hilt.......

Acura is trying to present itself as a sporty, thrilling choice so it has to be judged accordingly.....0-60 in 6 sec it's Dodge Charger V6 performance, an over 2 ton full size sedan costing quite less and capable of putting the same skidpad numbers.

Tesla1856

Actually, quite funny. Actually, quite funny.

pyrodan007

So speed is not important, but looks are. Right ...
I personally prefer a car to put my parents in the backseat and not make them fell like they're in jail. My father feels like being in a limo in the backseat of my A4. And yes, it's better than the space in the 1g TLX.

izzle22

The TLX is plenty fast. Not breaking any records and not as fast as others but plenty fast for most and myself. Looks aren't everything no. It has plenty of other features that shine besides breaking 0 - 60 records. Yeah I personally don't care about the back seat. In the past 5 years I don't think anyone has been in my back seat. Honestly I couldn't care less if it even had a back seat. Anytime we need to have anyone ride with us we take the wife's suv.

Once again someone who no longer owns an Acura still lurking in the Acura forums just to degrade the ones who do.

4G-Lover

Not mentioning the fact that if "performance it's not important" for a sport sedan buyer (and I mean potential performance, knowing what the car is capable of doing even if you do not floor it all the time) why buying a sport sedan at all?? The market is full of competent, comfortable and roomy cruisers (Accord, Camry, Avalon, etc...)

4G-Lover

Nobody is degrading anything, we are not criticizing anyone, simply stating that the TLX, so far, it's not competitive performance wise...as simple as that.....and considering the company is coming from a total let down like the 1G TLX a bit more of effort would have been warranted...we are not talking breaking record, nobody expected a sub 5 sec figures for a 2.0 TLX.....we are talking about being dead last among its competitors (and being outrun by the Accord 2.0T) which is a very different story.

izzle22

I think way too many people get hung up on the term "sports sedan" There is no hard line to what performance NEEDS to come out of a car labeled as a sports sedan. I didn't buy the TLX because it's the fastest 4 door on the road. To me it is plenty fast enough to get me on the highway, from light to light and to the parking lot at work. I'm not autocrossing it on Sundays. Did that back in the day with the RX-7, the CRX and the MR2. I bought the TLX for it's (yes) looks, tech features, comfort, and AWD handling. I didn't want to pay more money for something 1 second faster of the line that cost more and to me doesn't look as good. Yep could have gotten a Honda Accord for less. I've had 4 of them and they are boring to me. If you don't like the new TLX fine it's not for everyone. Just don't understand why the need to hang out in these forums obsessed with what it isn't.

sonyfever

Numbers are just numbers, how about really driving the car itself instead of crunching numbers? Numbers get old really fast. Depending on where you come from, these 2.0T cars can range anywhere from reasonably fast to just average. Like it or not, entry-level sports sedan is dead in spirit, and the sportiness torch has been passed to the trim one-level up. Let's talk about sportiness on Type-S, TLX as-is is fine for the segment.

4G-Lover

A car need to be benchmarked against the competition, I also personally like the TLX more than the A4, hands down. Simply, from Honda we expect more than this performance wise.

BEAR-AvHistory

Maybe because Acura chose/choose over & over since 2010 to put up adds & vids comparing the TL/TLX to the German sports sedans. Personally think its dumb ass stupid marketing as the TL/TLX were/are excellent cars. So advertise your strong points & forget the comparing to other cars.

Very seldom if ever will you see the premium cars mention the competition. There adds are all about themselves & tend to be feel good images. EX: MB - Santa's sled (Red MB) being pulled by 8 reindeers (white MB). Not an Audi, BMW or Lexus in sight. Porsche does not mention McLaren, McLaren does not mention Ferrari, Ferrari does not mention Lamborghini.

BTW before you do the OUCH thing look at the Accord/TLX vid $11,000 OUCH. People generally buy what they like & can afford thats why the are $21,000 Honda Civics & $50,000+ Acura TypeS. Hear that CiViC guy saying $29,000 SUPER OUCH I can buy two cars for that.

BEAR-AvHistory

Would respectfully disagree. This is a multi car entry level sport sedan Car & Driver test. All these cars actually perform pretty well. Some a little slow but all with handing & braking as good or better than their big brothers. They can all be had for TLX 2.0L dollars. The two slower ones top out at as tested $46.2K & $44.8K They are slower but on target in all the other measurable, not opinion based, factors that make a sports sedan.
Entry level Narrative
Entry level test numbers

There might not be a written Sports Sedan definition but these 4 cars & their uprated siblings all look to make a very consistent if unwritten definition with their totality of common packaging.

fiatlux

If Acura marketing didn't go all in on trying to frame this car as being the performance-oriented and sportier option in the segment, all would be good. Most of the rest of the car is quite good, but unfortunately, they decided to write a check that the car just could not cash when it comes down to the objective measurable numbers. Sure, the car might subjectively "feel" better than the numbers suggest (personally I agree with that), but you can't call yourself the most powerful and best handling car in the class and then not back up those claims at the test track. It's like the self-proclaimed smartest kid in the class scoring lower than everyone else. "I might not have the best test scores, but I have the biggest brain and I feel like I'm smarter" isn't a particularly compelling argument.

4G-Lover

Another image problem, and definitely not only for Acura, is that all other manufacturers have been knowing for years that the German play the underrating game and they still do not fix the problem....what is the point of having the "most powerful" car in the segment (on paper) when it gets spanked by a quite less powerful competitor?? Shoppers in the performance/premium segment do read car magazines and look at the numbers. As you said, it ends up being the "check you cannot cash"....

izzle22

I haven't seen any 2021 TLX marketing that says its better than the competition? The commercials I have seen have been strictly showing the car off. If they have they shouldn't have. What they did for marketing in 2010 shouldn't make folks who own cars other than the TLX come over to the Acura forums in 2020 to talk about how poor the TLX zero to 60 is compared to the competition all day and night. Don't understand people with other brands that have nothing better to do than hang out in the Acura forums telling everyone how inferior Acura is to all the other cars. It's like nonstop posts of "Oh look anther review of a car that has a 1 second better 0 to 60 than the TLX!" "Whoooo Hoooo take that suckers!!" "Ouch!!!" Etc...Etc...

pyrodan007

That's what happens when you have shit like this from Acura itself, people compare. And now prices are much closer to competition. Some may say a 5k difference is huge, but spread out per month it's not as big as you think.

izzle22

[QUOTE=pyrodan007;16669086]That's what happens when you have shit like this from Acura itself, people compare. And now prices are much closer to competition. Some may say a 5k difference is huge, but spread out per month it's not as big as you think.

Yep! I get that. I had not seen either of those.

Tesla1856

After we:
a. test drove the 2021 TLX Tech SH-AWD (and spent significant time examining and riding in a TLX Advance)
b. soon after at home, watched Raiti's 2020 Audi A4 review video

Then we watched the Acura/Audi video above ... Even my wife was saying stuff like
- That's just their opinion
- That's not fair
- That's not even correct.

F23A4

I fell out of my chair on that one.


...sorry for the I now return this thread back to the war (which originally began in the 1G TLX forum) !!

kurtatx

Oh look. The Audi outclasses the Acura. Acura needs to bail on sedans if this is what the result is.

BEAR-AvHistory

Then you have not been following the threads here very closely. Plenty of guys posted the charts & graphs put out by Acura marketing. TLX VS 3/5 series MB C/E series, Audi etc. Kind of evens up some Acura posters claiming just as good based on the charts. Its just a guy/cars thing like Chevy vs FORD & back in the bad old days Quarter Horse vs Arabian vs Thoroughbreds.

If it offends you don't read it, but consider traffic here will quickly dry up. Better if the information presented is incorrect just if correct it. Point being there has to be a reason a perfectly nice car can't sell, as a retired global marketing guy I find it very interesting

As for reviews how many happy news items have already been posted. Guys with their tongues hanging out waiting for this guy or that guy to do a review. Do people who are happy with their ride need that much validation.

Mak P

I don't understand why Acura is using 2 completely different engines. Why drop to a 4 cylinder? Use the twin turbo engine. Can't they tune it more and add additional aero dynamics for the Type S? If so, tell me that doesn't make sense? And give the Type S the advance trim

In the meantime, sounds like maybe the 2.0 needs more HP or the car should shed weight.. .or both

Mak P

Meant to say 2.0T instead of just using the twin turbo V6, but for some reason I can't edit my post

F23A4

I suppose they're just carrying over that practice from the first generation which used the K24W7 and J35Y6. With respect to the 2G, I personally would have loved for them to do what they ultimately did with the MDX by going with the J35 V6 (w/10AT) for the base models.

Colorado Guy AF Ret.

Uhhh...what "twin turbo engine?" The 3.0 V6? It's NOT a "twin turbo." It's a "twin scroll" single turbo engine. This is a mistake that so many make that are
reporting on the new 3.0 eng. Actually, this basic engine is not NEW....it is derived from the NSX which does use a 3.0 V6 plus the electric motors. But, that's
where the engine basically came from. Acura didn't have to start from scratch with a new engine for the Type S. They based it off the NSX engine.
And, again, they didn't carry over the twin turbos. Just put a better single turbo on it to help reduce the dreaded turbo lag. And, this engine, which I had in my '19 RDX,
does not have much "lag" at all. Pretty smooth for a single turbo 2.0.

Overall the 2.0 engine is a pretty darn good one. They are based on the Honda Civic Type R engine, just tuned "down" some. But, I will say, I favor nat. asp. 3.5 V6's that
Honda Motor Corp has been using for many years, and have refined them along the way. I got great fuel mileage with the many I have owned. Turbo 4's don't tend to get that
great of fuel mileage, as is true of other car makers....same issue. Turbos when pushed suck some fuel. Just a fact. So, folks who think that.."Oh, it's a 4 cyl and should get
great fuel mileage....LOL....uhhh...NO. Not so great. On trips my 3.5 V6 Hondas and Acuras got well over 30 mpg...consistently. Why...due to the cylinder deactivation tech.
that was perfected over the years. On a flat road cruise you will run on 3 cylinders. Thus the fuel savings and why I got over 30 mpg.

MSZ

The NSX engine is designed by Corsworth. Not related to any other road cars.

Corsworth official website:

https://www.cosworth.com/uncategoriz...h-and-the-nsx/

leomio85

Not once, but twice you misspelled Cosworth. How dare you.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

haha Acura marketing is very poor...

tbf to the TLX 2.0T, it's not the fastest but it's competitive.
https://hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/fi...1579793822.pdf

BEAR-AvHistory

As long as you are willing to over look braking, skidpad, fuel economy & price. The two cars it accelerates with cost less & all four cars outscore it on all the other performance metrics. Had it been in the test it would have finished dead last..

Yumcha

Maybe Acura should be compared against Lincoln, Infiniti, and etc. versus the Germans?

Seriously, Audi, Mercedes-Benz, and BMW is not Acura's competition.

F23A4

Certainly seems to run mid-pack with respect to this foursome. Of course that’s completely unacceptable.

jjsC5

That Audi was a totally loaded Prestige. It has features not available on the TLX. It’s actually hard to find a Prestige A4 in stock.