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The hot side twin turbo system does not have a the plumbing of a cold side twin turbo & was Introduced Ferrari's Formula 1 engines. The hot V turbo engines are now being used in the performance cars like the Mercedes-AMG, Porsche Panamera, Ferrari etc next StingRay upgrade. Right now AFASIK the Twin scroll unites are pretty much all BMW & Audi.
Your example of a old design twin turbo
Most everything in the yellow boxes goes away.
VS
a Hot Side MB AMG M178 V8 Twin Turbo.
The Twin Turbos are both inside the green box on top of the engine between the V, just like your BMW example & feed on exhaust right from the cylinder head. Most all the performance engines are now hot side turbos. They come is twin (two the same size) & Biturbo a smaller one and a bigger one. Small one eliminates lag & the big one enables top end power for high RPM engines.
Forgot to mention have a two cars with twin scroll turbos, both BMW's sitting on my drive way & appreciate the BMW marketing speak, but if you go back to around 2011 they were a cost reduction item & could not keep up with the pure twins in the same car. My 335IS coupe TT was quicker than my 435 Coupe & could also take modification better. With a light tune & a larger intercooler my 335is was developing about 400WHP on a DynoJet machine. Same work & the 435 could not match it. The 2011 would run 12.5 1/4 miles around 115mph. Close to what my current Z4 will do 10 years later.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 12-27-2020 at 08:07 PM.
F1 cars...went to TWIN SCROLL turbos a few yrs ago. Gee, must be a benefit there...LOTS of horsepower.
I know you don't want to acknowledge the facts, but, facts are facts...again, do your homework IF you want to prove some kind of a point.
I could go on and on, but, I don't need to at this point. Just know that I am correct on what I have presented. Twin scrolls have taken over,
for the most part. It's just a fact. You're in "old school" world.....get up to date and modern. I've tried to make it simple and lay out the facts.
You seem to want to "prove some point of yours' by diving in to the weeds. It's not that hard to understand what is happening...TODAY...and
started happening a few yrs ago. And it only got better with what has been achieved with a: single twin scroll turbo...OR....(2) twin scroll turbos.
Depends on the engine, desired results, etc, etc. I think we've helped most folks enough at this point. I rest my case....hoping to inform those that
didn't know a twin turbo set up from a twin scroll single turbo.
Got timed out needed to add on the 335is. In 2011 BMW switched to the N55 dual scroll engine from the N54 Twin Turbo engine. For 2011 trough 2013 they ran a limited production run of the 3 series 2500 Coupes & 2500 Convertibles but with the earlier cars N54 Twin Turbo engine. They then moved up to an N55 & as a new ID they called it the 435 for the coupe & convertible. My 435 coupe was a 2014 & the N54 335IS still out performed the. The 2018 440 version of the car with the MSPPK performance package that I had was pretty close. Finally the B58 at 382BHP which is a Twin Scroll in my current Z4 was quicker.
That said the N54's are still the engine of choice for anyone doing mods on the 3L & have passed 700WHP.
Ferraris use...(2) TWIN SCROLL turbos. FACT.
I think we've helped most folks enough at this point. I rest my case....hoping to inform those that
didn't know a twin turbo set up from a twin scroll single turbo.
Yes they do use Twin Scrolls in their Twin Turbo set up, have you wondered why it might be necessary?
Wonder if they got rid of all that piping if they could make a change by bring the turbos into the V. Also am surprised they are using what looks like vacuum operated waste gates & not electronic unless this is just an old picture.
Anyway a debate is always interesting .
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 12-27-2020 at 08:58 PM.
Yes they do use Twin Scrolls in their Twin Turbo set up, have you wondered why it might be necessary?
Wonder if they got rid of all that piping if they could make a change by bring the turbos into the V. Also am surprised they are using what looks like vacuum operated waste gates & not electronic unless this is just an old picture.
Anyway a debate is always interesting .
Ferrari is now using a computer controlled turbo system...with the turbos having integrated tachs so the turbo speed will always be optimal. Latest and greatest. The 3.9 V8 has been using
twin turbos that ARE twin scroll for some years. That engine is currently in more than one Ferrari...the famous 488 being one of them.
Yes they do use Twin Scrolls in their Twin Turbo set up, have you wondered why it might be necessary?
Wonder if they got rid of all that piping if they could make a change by bring the turbos into the V. Also am surprised they are using what looks like vacuum operated waste gates & not electronic unless this is just an old picture.
Anyway a debate is always interesting .
No debate. Just info sharing...and it's become too deep. The point was to help/inform many that confuse the new Acura turbo engines. Even auto writers call them "twin turbo engines." Of course
they are NOT. They are single turbos designed with the "twin scroll" technology. That's all I've wanted to do...is help those get it right and understand the "BASICS" here.
The Ferrari now uses computer controlled turbos with integrated tachs within the turbos to keep the boost at optimal levels. The 3.9 V8 is using that and this engine is used in a few Ferraris...including
the famous 488.
We've run this far enough for what MOST on here want or need to know/learn. We can always answer questions....but, getting DEEP is not really helpful on these kind of forums.
But this is the latest thing ... this 2.9L-V6 . The Porsche division helped them with it.
The "electric compressor" runs from MHEV battery. AFAIK, it only runs at initial Launching (or just "flooring-it") but it acts like a SuperCharger then.
No debate. Just info sharing...and it's become too deep. The point was to help/inform many that confuse the new Acura turbo engines. Even auto writers call them "twin turbo engines." Of course
they are NOT..
Blame BMW marketing for pulling a slight of hand in 2009 for creating a new term when the mainstream engines went from twin turbos to twin scroll engines except in the 3 series specials & the 1 Series M Coupe. They went from a plain engine cover with a round BMW logo to even though dynos at the time showed it has less power to the one below:
This was my 440 with a Twin Scroll turbo called a "Twin Power Turbo". The M Performance label indicated its the optional 355BHP not the standard 320BHP version.
BMW underrates its engines so against contemporary cars of other makes it performed well. When they changed from a open deck to a closed deck block & other enhancements with the B58 engine in the M340 it caught up & surpassed the older twins
In some cars they finally got over that but went with another slight of hand including underrating the power.
The 382BHP in the Z4 says M Performance on the cover. However its a production line engine not a special build "M" engine. So the confusion (misdirection) continues.
The real M engines cover looks like this with the M power label:
Its based on the current B58 in the M340 & Z4 M40 but has been modified & listed as the S58 replacing the S55 in the current cars.
The new S58 will continue to have two mono-scroll turbochargers like the current M series S55 engine & will max at 503BHP on release. Its said that future competition models will run to 550BHP, nice for an inline 3.0L 6 cylinder.
Point being as Colorado Guy suggested the car companies would love to confuse people & are even successful in confusing the magazine writers & YouTubers.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 12-28-2020 at 12:29 PM.
But this is the latest thing ... this 2.9L-V6 . The Porsche division helped them with it.
The "electric compressor" runs from MHEV battery. AFAIK, it only runs at initial Launching (or just "flooring-it") but it acts like a SuperCharger then.
BMW has it on some models think down as far as the 5 series? with a 48 Volt battery & a starter/generator. MB introduced it in 2017. The one in the Mercedes-AMG E 53 adds 21BHP off the line to fill in the turbo lag. BMW's version is not as strong with only 11BHP.
Well, I went against all my instincts and tested out a 18 S5 with 15k in upgrades and 27k miles ( 3k less than my 18 TLX). Man what a fun car. The type S is supposed to be in the same range as the S5 and if is near the power of the S5 then it will be pretty fast. I really wanted a coupe for a long time. Needless to say it's in my garage now and the TLX is gone. Not knocking the TLX at all as it was a great daily driver but not near the feeling. The S5 is a beast in both features, acceleration and appointments. I know it's gonna cost me down the road but it's a lot of fun. Not a real comparison since it was a 68K new without tax or tags as optioned.. Certified it was a lot less than the type S expected price. Just have to decide if I want to plunk down another 2500 to get an additional 3 years on the 2 year warranty that it has being certified. My mistake for going for a test drive in it.
Well, I went against all my instincts and tested out a 18 S5 with 15k in upgrades and 27k miles ( 3k less than my 18 TLX). Man what a fun car.
I really wanted a coupe for a long time. Needless to say it's in my garage now and the TLX is gone. Not knocking the TLX at all as it was a great daily driver but not near the feeling. The S5 is a beast in both features, acceleration and appointments.
Well, I went against all my instincts and tested out a 18 S5 with 15k in upgrades and 27k miles ( 3k less than my 18 TLX). Man what a fun car. The type S is supposed to be in the same range as the S5 and if is near the power of the S5 then it will be pretty fast. I really wanted a coupe for a long time. Needless to say it's in my garage now and the TLX is gone. Not knocking the TLX at all as it was a great daily driver but not near the feeling. The S5 is a beast in both features, acceleration and appointments. I know it's gonna cost me down the road but it's a lot of fun. Not a real comparison since it was a 68K new without tax or tags as optioned.. Certified it was a lot less than the type S expected price. Just have to decide if I want to plunk down another 2500 to get an additional 3 years on the 2 year warranty that it has being certified. My mistake for going for a test drive in it.
Well, I went against all my instincts and tested out a 18 S5 with 15k in upgrades and 27k miles ( 3k less than my 18 TLX). Man what a fun car. The type S is supposed to be in the same range as the S5 and if is near the power of the S5 then it will be pretty fast. I really wanted a coupe for a long time. Needless to say it's in my garage now and the TLX is gone. Not knocking the TLX at all as it was a great daily driver but not near the feeling. The S5 is a beast in both features, acceleration and appointments. I know it's gonna cost me down the road but it's a lot of fun. Not a real comparison since it was a 68K new without tax or tags as optioned.. Certified it was a lot less than the type S expected price. Just have to decide if I want to plunk down another 2500 to get an additional 3 years on the 2 year warranty that it has being certified. My mistake for going for a test drive in it.
Congrats, but watch out, according to some you’re no longer allowed to post on the TLX forums, and if you lurk around here it means you’re a loser hater.
Can't get a good pic as it's dark. Need to get it out in the driveway tomorrow..
Prestige package, S sport package, Driver assistance package, Napa leather upgrade, 19" wheel upgrade, Carbon inlay upgrade, Audi Beams, and a couple less valuable options. Whole thing was about the same as a new non-type S TLX. Did pay for 1100 rim insurance. Still debating on going from the 2 year warranty to 5 years.
Congrats, but watch out, according to some you’re no longer allowed to post on the TLX forums, and if you lurk around here it means you’re a loser hater.
Yeah, I will be careful on that. I liked my TLX A-Spec Awd. I have wanted to drive one of these for a couple of years but held off as I was worried I would like it too much. Temptation gave in. Been holed up in the house too long. I do think if the TLX which will have similar HP to this car should be fast. Surprisingly this gets better mpg (granted in a short time of driving) than my TLX.
Prestige package, S sport package, Driver assistance package, Napa leather upgrade, 19" wheel upgrade, Carbon inlay upgrade, Audi Beams, and a couple less valuable options. Whole thing was about the same as a new non-type S TLX. Did pay for 1100 rim insurance. Still debating on going from the 2 year warranty to 5 years.
Very nice. Come join us on AudiWorld forum if you need anything.
For those unfamiliar ... The S5 is powered by a Audi-V6, Prestige is highest trim (aka "loaded" like an Acura Advance). Pretty sure they all came with Quattro-AWD.
Very nice. Come join us on AudiWorld forum if you need anything.
For those unfamiliar ... The S5 is powered by a Audi-V6, Prestige is highest trim (aka "loaded" like an Acura Advance). Pretty sure they all came with Quattro-AWD.
Will be on those forums for sure. Whoever leased this added almost another 7k in options on top of the prestige package. If I add in the extra cost to go to a 5 year warrantee it's still probably 7K less than what a new type S will cost if it's around 55k. Probably a break even with maintenance over 5 years though. I expect the Type S to be a lot less to maintain. The audi does have a lot of features than the Acura just doesn't offer. Anyway, it's a super fun car to drive and I am understating that.
jhb31, congrats on getting the S5. The Audi S-line is in a top performing class of its own.
You may find it useful to invest in a VAG-COM tool. Not only does it do diagnostic, it also allows the user to modify or customize the settings of virtually anything that is connected up electrically to all control modules, but those settings are not accessible from the OEM car menu.
In addition, like I said many times before. If you plan on keeping the Audi past the standard warranty period, buy the appropriate length of extended warranty that you see fit, preferably with $0 deductible per visit.
jhb31, congrats on getting the S5. The Audi S-line is in a top performing class of its own.
You may find it useful to invest in a VAG-COM tool. Not only does it do diagnostic, it also allows the user to modify or customize the settings of virtually anything that is connected up electrically to all control modules, but those settings are not accessible from the OEM car menu.
In addition, like I said many times before. If you plan on keeping the Audi past the standard warranty period, buy the appropriate length of extended warranty that you see fit, preferably with $0 deductible per visit.
Have fun.
I’m guessing customizing inaccessible settings violates any warranty so think carefully before extending the warranty.
Can't get a good pic as it's dark. Need to get it out in the driveway tomorrow..
Prestige package, S sport package, Driver assistance package, Napa leather upgrade, 19" wheel upgrade, Carbon inlay upgrade, Audi Beams, and a couple less valuable options. Whole thing was about the same as a new non-type S TLX. Did pay for 1100 rim insurance. Still debating on going from the 2 year warranty to 5 years.
Very Nice, Congratulations on your new car. RU in Jersey?
jhb31, congrats on getting the S5. The Audi S-line is in a top performing class of its own.
You may find it useful to invest in a VAG-COM tool. Not only does it do diagnostic, it also allows the user to modify or customize the settings of virtually anything that is connected up electrically to all control modules, but those settings are not accessible from the OEM car menu.
In addition, like I said many times before. If you plan on keeping the Audi past the standard warranty period, buy the appropriate length of extended warranty that you see fit, preferably with $0 deductible per visit.
Have fun.
I don’t know if it’s still the available for newer models, but when I had my 2016 A7 I used a “Carista” app to change some of the settings. The main thing I did was get rid of it defaulting to stop/start. But there were other things it could change. Have you looked into it?
Can't get a good pic as it's dark. Need to get it out in the driveway tomorrow..
Prestige package, S sport package, Driver assistance package, Napa leather upgrade, 19" wheel upgrade, Carbon inlay upgrade, Audi Beams, and a couple less valuable options. Whole thing was about the same as a new non-type S TLX. Did pay for 1100 rim insurance. Still debating on going from the 2 year warranty to 5 years.
I've driven past that dealership a number of times; wifey and I have been doing some house hunting in that part of Hunterdon County.
Very Nice, Congratulations on your new car. RU in Jersey?
Yes, one of the reasons why I got the wheel/tire insurance is some of the roads here are crap. Got two rims and 4 tires under the Acura wheel/tire insurance. Oddly enough the Audi insurance was less and has double the limit (10k vs 5k lifetime). Both cover 5 years but Audi also covers curb rash with no deductible. Normally I never buy that but did on the Acura on a whim due to the 19 inch wheels and really got my moneys worth on that one. Hope to never use it but probably will. At least the Audi comes with a spare. Probably gonna add the extended warranty so I am covered till Dec 2015. I figure by then I will have a good idea if I want to keep it longer term or if it's got the problems I had crop up on my last audi (that was years back) so hopefully things have improved.
Probably gonna add the extended warranty so I am covered till Dec 2015.
As long as you're going back in time, try to warn as many people as you can about COVID. On second thought, you might inadvertently start the pandemic sooner. Never mind!
I’m guessing customizing inaccessible settings violates any warranty so think carefully before extending the warranty.
One can always restore all customized settings back to OEM before taking the car to the dealership. I'm talking about modifying convenience settings such as interior lighting controls, key fob functions, MMI displays, etc.
However, I strongly against modifying any setting that is related to engine operation, because even a small change may affect the proper operation of the complex engine without one knowing it.
The main thing I did was get rid of it defaulting to stop/start.
Probably the only thing I've been interested in changing, but pressing a button is not to hard and you can also just leave the AC on (that seems to also do the trick).
Well that and I saw a guy do a new lock/un-lock animation with matrix-led lights (via "long-coding" IIRC). It was very complex light-show and pretty.
Not sure I'm ok with enabling others things I haven't paid for though, and I suspect with new Feature-On-Demand sub-system, a lot of that is going to be further locked-down anyway.
As long as you're going back in time, try to warn as many people as you can about COVID. On second thought, you might inadvertently start the pandemic sooner. Never mind!
As long as you're going back in time, try to warn as many people as you can about COVID. On second thought, you might inadvertently start the pandemic sooner. Never mind!
lol, my bad 2025. I would like to go back in time though.
I don’t know if it’s still the available for newer models, but when I had my 2016 A7 I used a “Carista” app to change some of the settings. The main thing I did was get rid of it defaulting to stop/start. But there were other things it could change. Have you looked into it?
I sold my Audi's and the VCDS VAG-COM, so I have nothing to play around with.
Yes, one of the reasons why I got the wheel/tire insurance is some of the roads here are crap. Got two rims and 4 tires under the Acura wheel/tire insurance. Oddly enough the Audi insurance was less and has double the limit (10k vs 5k lifetime). Both cover 5 years but Audi also covers curb rash with no deductible. Normally I never buy that but did on the Acura on a whim due to the 19 inch wheels and really got my moneys worth on that one. Hope to never use it but probably will. At least the Audi comes with a spare. Probably gonna add the extended warranty so I am covered till Dec 2015. I figure by then I will have a good idea if I want to keep it longer term or if it's got the problems I had crop up on my last audi (that was years back) so hopefully things have improved.
Good plan, the roads were a lot better in the old days when I lived there.
As long as you're going back in time, try to warn as many people as you can about COVID. On second thought, you might inadvertently start the pandemic sooner. Never mind!
And while back in time can you look me up and warn me about my ex?
12-27-2020 | 07:55 PM
Happy New Year!
