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Acura is very realistic and came up with a very decent forecast for the new TLX and TLX Type S sales numbers. This year is pretty bad due to the pandemic, but by 2022 Acura is expecting to maintain 35,000 units sales per year (also considering that the sedan market isn't very hot at this moment.) I think it's very realistic and achievable. If we look at the A4, 3 Series and C Class, Acura is positioning the new TLX around A4 rather than 3 series and Class.
On another note, I am surprised at the A4 numbers. It's so behind the 3 Series and C Class. Now I understand why some people call it a fancy Jetta with 4 rings. Sales numbers prove that. Almost the same as TLX and Q50 lol! not bad. Acura and Infiniti should be proud.
Acura is very realistic and came up with a very decent forecast for the new TLX and TLX Type S sales numbers. This year is pretty bad due to the pandemic, but by 2022 Acura is expecting to maintain 35,000 units sales per year (also considering that the sedan market isn't very hot at this moment.) I think it's very realistic and achievable. If we look at the A4, 3 Series and C Class, Acura is positioning the new TLX around A4 rather than 3 series and Class.
On another note, I am surprised at the A4 numbers. It's so behind the 3 Series and C Class. Now I understand why some people call it a fancy Jetta with 4 rings. Sales numbers prove that. Almost the same as TLX and Q50 lol! not bad. Acura and Infiniti should be proud.
if the A4 is only managing ~35k units a year and as you put it...a tarted up jetta...
what makes acura think their tarted up Accord will pull anywhere close to the a4? (the a4 is such a better car than the acura's)
acura is betting on emotion with the sharp hood creases.
Emotion does play apart with buying cars, we'll see if the sharp hood creases do anything for sales.
Last edited by justnspace; 09-09-2020 at 08:58 AM.
if the A4 is only managing ~35k units a year and as you put it...a tarted up jetta...
what makes acura think their tarted up Accord will pull anywhere close to the a4? (the a4 is such a better car than the acura's)
acura is betting on emotion with the sharp hood creases.
Emotion does play apart with buying cars, we'll see if the sharp hood creases do anything for sales.
Well check the 1st G TLX numbers. Not far from Audi A4. But Audi fans pretend that the A4 is way superior than TLX. The truth is here. It's not. Doens't matter how nice or fancy it's. Still it doesn't reach 50,000 units.
TLX numbers:
2015 47K
2016 37K
2017 35K
2018 30.5K
2019 26.5K
Average 35K. A4's average last 5 years is 32K. also, don't forget, everyone like yourself thinks A4 is better but TLx with poor reviews and some other technical issues, still maintained a superior sales numbers than A4 in the last 5 years
I don't think you can use sales figures as a proxy for which are is better than which. Case in point, the Nissan Rogue sells 3-4x more than the Mazda CX5. Is anyone here going to argue that the Rogue is somehow superior to the CX5? In fact, the Rogue even outsold the CRV the last few years. I guess the Rogue is superior to the CRV?
I don't think you can use sales figures as a proxy for which are is better than which. Case in point, the Nissan Rogue sells 3-4x more than the Mazda CX5. Is anyone here going to argue that the Rogue is somehow superior to the CX5? In fact, the Rogue even outsold the CRV the last few years. I guess the Rogue is superior to the CRV?
Brother - let's not go far...Rogue isn't a bad car to begin with but Nissan does a lot of fleet. I hope you know that. Also, Rogue sales numbers may be superior than those vehicles that you have mentioned due to the lower price and crazy incentives. I just leased a 2020 Mazda CX-5 3 weeks ago, and I test drove all the vehicles in this segment. Mazda is very expensive compared to Rogue. Not everyone is willing to pay ~$500 CAD for a CX-5, whereas a similar Rogue is ~$385.
I agree with you that sales numbers aren't the only thing to look at. You're right. But at the end of the day, it's all opinion. Sales numbers tell us if a car is liked by the public or not. We cannot paint a car good or bad based on few members here. How can we define nice or beautiful? It's all subjective. I think Stelvio is a better looking car than Macan. Now 10 of us here, will agree or disagree and that's fine. But at the end of the day, Macan sales numbers are way superior and it has a better market.
Also, this whole topic is about sales numbers and you started the conversation. So let's stick to the number now and give me your argument as why A4 isn't selling as good as 3 Series and C Class.
Also, this whole topic is about sales numbers and you started the conversation. So let's stick to the number now and give me your argument as why A4 isn't selling as good as 3 Series and C Class.
Uh, I’m pretty sure you started the conversation since you’re the OP?
Uh, I’m pretty sure you started the conversation since you’re the OP?
Of course I did. ....But I am sticking to numbers. I am saying Audi A4's sales are poor and people aren't buying it compared to 3 Series and C Class. Also, I did say there is not much difference between A4, TLX and Q50's sales numbers. I am not sure why people always say A4 is so nice...if It's that nice? Why poor sales numbers?I honestly don't know the answer. if anyone can help.
With all due respect, you are saying: "I don't think you can use sales figures as a proxy for which are is better than which" I want to dedicate this thread to sales numbers. That's all. if you want to contribute to the thread and have any data, please kindly bring them here. So we all see it. Re-read my first post, did I say anything about look, quality, nice or not nice? I just said Acura is positioning the TLX around A4 rather than 3 series and C Class. Also, I did say the forecast is realistic.
\With all due respect, you are saying: "I don't think you can use sales figures as a proxy for which are is better than which" I want to dedicate this thread to sales numbers. That's all. if you want to contribute to the thread and have any data, please kindly bring them here. So we all see it. Re-read my first post, did I say anything about look, quality, nice or not nice? I just said Acura is positioning the TLX around A4 rather than 3 series and C Class. Also, I did say the forecast is realistic.
With all due respect, you're either delusional or a revisionist if you think you've only been talking about sales numbers. Let me quote what you said earlier:
Well check the 1st G TLX numbers. Not far from Audi A4. But Audi fans pretend that the A4 is way superior than TLX. The truth is here. It's not. Doens't matter how nice or fancy it's. Still it doesn't reach 50,000 units.
You were the one that decided to conflate sales numbers with car "superiority", not me. I pointed out that your logic is bunk because there are so many other factors that can either inflate or deflate sales numbers relative to how "superior" or "inferior" a car is.
With all due respect, you're either delusional or a revisionist if you think you've only been talking about sales numbers. Let me quote what you said earlier:
You were the one that decided to conflate sales numbers with car "superiority", not me. I pointed out that your logic is bunk because there are so many other factors that can either inflate or deflate sales numbers relative to how "superior" or "inferior" a car is.
Thank you. you're very kind. When you get the answer as why A4 sales are not as high as C Class and 3 Series. Then we will chat. Enjoy your day
It's because up until now TLX had pretty decent rebates and the price tag is 5-10k cheaper based on options. People are also afraid of the higher maintenance costs. If both companies would have a similar pricing band, you can be sure the A4 would sell much more. 3 series has a huge price spread, there's one for everyone. That's why Rogue sells more, they bulk buy due to cost and not quality.
Thank you. you're very kind. When you get the answer as why A4 sales are not as high as C Class and 3 Series. Then we will chat. Enjoy your day
Clearly you don't peruse any other brand's forums. It's well known that BMW and Mercedes have very good lease offers and incentives, whereas Audi for whatever reason doesn't. When buying the car outright it doesn't matter as much, but from a monthly payment perspective MB and BMW is considerably cheaper than Audi.
And WTF does that have to do with the TLX? Aside from price, the 1G TLX doesn't match up well with the A4, so you go and compare the A4's sales figures to its rivals in order to claim it's not superior to the TLX? Desperate and pathetic much?
It's because up until now TLX had pretty decent rebates and the price tag is 5-10k cheaper based on options. People are also afraid of the higher maintenance costs. If both companies would have a similar pricing band, you can be sure the A4 would sell much more. 3 series has a huge price spread, there's one for everyone. That's why Rouge sells more, they bulk buy due due to cost and not quality.
So the TLX is $5-$10K cheaper than the A4? Wow that I did not know. I knew ~5K but $10K WOW. Thanks for your answer. So I guess since Acura increased the prices of the new TLX, we will see the sales figures in the next 3-6 months. TLX will sell probably 20K units. it has to be less than A4.
Clearly you don't peruse any other brand's forums. It's well known that BMW and Mercedes have very good lease offers and incentives, whereas Audi for whatever reason doesn't. When buying the car outright it doesn't matter as much, but from a monthly payment perspective MB and BMW is considerably cheaper than Audi.
So the TLX is $5-$10K cheaper than the A4? Wow that I did not know. I knew ~5K but $10K WOW. Thanks for your answer. So I guess since Acura increased the prices of the new TLX, we will see the sales figures in the next 3-6 months. TLX will sell probably 20K units. it has to be less than A4.
Why did you get a CX-5 and not a RDX? It's always about price at some point...
But Audi fans pretend that the A4 is way superior than TLX. The truth is here. It's not. Doesn't matter how nice or fancy it's. Still it doesn't reach 50,000 units.
Average 35K. A4's average last 5 years is 32K. also, don't forget, everyone like yourself thinks A4
I don't think the Audi-A4 must fail for the TLX to be successful. Have you driven an A4-Prestige lately?
Thanks for posting these numbers. Reminds me that I need to go test-drive a MB C-class (and at least peak at the E-class).
Why did you get a CX-5 and not a RDX? It's always about price at some point...
Since you are very curious let me tell you and I hope you don't get bored
1. My wife had hit the driver side of the car and there was ~$2K worth of repair (I did not claim it so I had to ditch from my own pocket.)
2. I had to pay over 2.5K for over mileage.
3. CX-5 consumes a lot less than the RDX and we do a lot of milage. Also premium vs. regular gas.
The dealer closed their eyes about the damage and over mileage. I got a good deal since I got another Mazda.
Also, I am planning to change my TLX for either a RDX or MDX in the next few months. I am leaning towards the RDX but due to the family, MDX would make more sense. Still undecided. I even test drove the RX and loved the interior, but it's very boring. Let me know if you need more info.
He probably didn’t know you can pick up an RDX for almost 20% off sticker these days.
You may find it funny. But tbh, I did not know about the 20%. So you are telling me A-Spec which cost $50K CAD is $40K. WOW that's impressive. Hopefully I get that deal in the near future. $40K for a RDX is pretty good deal.
You may find it funny. But tbh, I did not know about the 20%. So you are telling me A-Spec which cost $50K CAD is $40K. WOW that's impressive. Hopefully I get that deal in the near future. $40K for a RDX is pretty good deal.
That's correct. There's a huge thread on what people are actually paying for their RDX, and you can see that lately folks have been getting at least $10-12K off sticker: https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...981278/page17/
Acura is seriously juicing these numbers with some very generous discounts.
Clearly you don't peruse any other brand's forums. It's well known that BMW and Mercedes have very good lease offers and incentives, whereas Audi for whatever reason doesn't. When buying the car outright it doesn't matter as much, but from a monthly payment perspective MB and BMW is considerably cheaper than Audi.
And WTF does that have to do with the TLX? Aside from price, the 1G TLX doesn't match up well with the A4, so you go and compare the A4's sales figures to its rivals in order to claim it's not superior to the TLX? Desperate and pathetic much?
Average last 5 years....31K units! This is fact! May be during the pandemic A4 sales go up...perhaps Audi gives more incentives and increase sales numbers
That's correct. There's a huge thread on what people are actually paying for their RDX, and you can see that lately folks have been getting at least $10-12K off sticker: https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...981278/page17/
Acura is seriously juicing these numbers with some very generous discounts.
Thank you. I really mean it. I did not know. $10-11K is a lot of money. At least for me. Good for Acura...If they can afford that.
That's correct. There's a huge thread on what people are actually paying for their RDX, and you can see that lately folks have been getting at least $10-12K off sticker: https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...981278/page17/
Acura is seriously juicing these numbers with some very generous discounts.
But why though, it's already cheaper than the Q5 and seems to be selling well
But why though, it's already cheaper than the Q5 and seems to be selling well
Let me ask you something, and please answer the question. You are from MTL and you know Infiniti is giving crazy incentives for all their vehicles but especially for Q50 and QX50. Tell me why isn't selling? RDX sells 2X more than QX50. Why? I am shopping for car and I will go to Acura and confirm (at least with you since you are from MTL) if we can get for $40K an A-Spec.
But why though, it's already cheaper than the Q5 and seems to be selling well
I don't even have a guess. I can't imagine anyone is taking a bath on these cars, because otherwise they'd just reduce the supply, and these deals have been going on since the beginning of the year now. We aren't going to see an MMC until at least a year from now, so this isn't one of those fire sales. Maybe they're trying to take market share by trading margin for volume? That could be part of Acura's strategy to reignite interest in the brand; if people see a lot of the same cars on the road, they'll start to think "Hm, this must be a good car / good brand, maybe I'll consider it next time".
If anything, this just illustrates the insane profit margin automakers have on their crossovers. The incremental increase in variable costs like raw materials needed to build one isn't very significant, but consumers are willing to pay more for crossovers and SUVs because of the impression that it's "bigger" and you get "more".
Mark Wakefield, head of the North American auto practice for consultancy AlixPartners, said manufacturers can price SUVs and crossovers substantially higher than sedans, notably vehicles built on the same platform, because the taller vehicles have more passenger and cargo space."There's little difference in body and chassis cost," he said. "Interiors tend to have more content in crossovers and there can be powertrain differences, but the manufacturing cost differential is modest."
i don't even have a guess. I can't imagine anyone is taking a bath on these cars, because otherwise they'd just reduce the supply, and these deals have been going on since the beginning of the year now. We aren't going to see an mmc until at least a year from now, so this isn't one of those fire sales. Maybe they're trying to take market share by trading margin for volume? That could be part of acura's strategy to reignite interest in the brand; if people see a lot of the same cars on the road, they'll start to think "hm, this must be a good car / good brand, maybe i'll consider it next time".
If anything, this just illustrates the insane profit margin automakers have on their crossovers. The incremental increase in variable costs like raw materials needed to build one isn't very significant, but consumers are willing to pay more for crossovers and suvs because of the impression that it's "bigger" and you get "more".
Let me ask you something, and please answer the question. You are from MTL and you know Infiniti is giving crazy incentives for all their vehicles but especially for Q50 and QX50. Tell me why isn't selling? RDX sells 2X more than QX50. Why? I am shopping for car and I will go to Acura and confirm (at least with you since you are from MTL) if we can get for $40K an A-Spec.
I agree that Infiniti has no chance to get a sell even with a steep discount since products are so old and misdesigned. But for the RDX to have big discounts when it's still fairly new and priced aggressively, seems very surprising to me.
But for the RDX to have big discounts when it's still fairly new and priced aggressively, seems very surprising to me.
Agreed. In my (large) Texas city, they go for MSRP because we have ONE Acura dealer here. It's a "no haggle" dealership. Or, I think you can now buy thru Acura Precision Purchase (I think about the same net cost).
Only substantial discounts we get on brand-new (like under 100 miles) current year Acura models is stuff like Incentives, Special Rate Financing, Loyalty Bonuses, and extra $500 on your trade-in ... stuff like that.
Of course I did. ....But I am sticking to numbers. I am saying Audi A4's sales are poor and people aren't buying it compared to 3 Series and C Class. Also, I did say there is not much difference between A4, TLX and Q50's sales numbers. I am not sure why people always say A4 is so nice...if It's that nice? Why poor sales numbers?I honestly don't know the answer. if anyone can help.
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One of the major reason of Audi being less than successful that BMW/MB is that Audi (not just the A4) does not have RWD vehicle platform. Audi only has FWD platforms and any high-power (> ~290hp) FWD-chassis Audi's have no choice but to pair with the costly, heavy-ass, and power-robbing AWD hardware. High engine power is always associated with luxury automobiles.
Whereas luxury high-power BMW's and MB's can enjoy the cheaper to manufacture, simpler, lighter, and more powerful RWD platform vehicles, when compared to the FWD-chassis AWD counterparts.
With the lack of RWD chassis, Audi is always one step below the perceived true luxury status associated with BMW and MB.
Being in the same boat as Audi, Acura is facing the exact same fate.
09-09-2020, 08:21 AM
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