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Yea, especially that Acura is mainly a North American brand plus a bit in China, and that's about it. IIRC Acura worldwide sales volume is about 10% of BMW or Mercedes,.
And if we base things on sales figures, the target for this segment would be the Lexus ES (2019 figures):
I think car enthusiasts just represent a small group of people. May be it's just me, but most of the people I know that own a high end European brand is mainly buying it because of perception in terms of better safety (European cars are safer in a crash) and more prestigious. They religiously just go back to the big 3 (MB, Audi, BMW), when their lease is up (mostly females). Not sure the exact reason but I'm guessing they just wanna be able to fit in to a certain image and to be seen as being relatively well off?
The Lexus ES has this sort of following going on too. It's probably the reason that it's class leading in terms of sales despite its relatively high price versus an A4 and TLX while riding on the Toyota Avalon platform with no sportiness other than its appearance.
Sort of similar to the RWD sports car world. The muscle cars like the Mustang and Camaro are killing it with 70k and 50k sales in 2019. The likes of Miata and FRS are 9k and 3k respectively.
Or how about the Camry/Accord vs Mazda 6, 300k vs 30k. And the Mazda 6 is extremely highly rated.
Perception and reputation are really important. For me, I'm not too sure if the A4 and TLX being RWD will improve sales figures by that much, to the point that Audi and Acura would feel worthwhile to make a dedicated RWD platform. The Lexus IS, Cadillac ATS, Infiniti Q50, and Genesis G70 are all below the TLX and A4 in sales.
It is very true that crossover buyers don't follow the same "RWD over AWD" buying patterns for cars. In fact, most crossover buyers will opt for AWD over 2WD, if such choice is available. The advent of crossover brings the automotive term "AWD" into the world. In fact, back in the old days when vehicle buyers wanted to buy 4WD/AWD for severe weather traction, crossovers and jeeps and trucks were their only choices. AWD only started appearing in popular cars about 15 years ago.
Crossovers tend to be heavier in weight and higher in center of gravity than cars of similar size. Also handling performance likely sits at the very bottom of the priority list for crossover buyers. Therefore the advantages of RWD over AWD in high engine power car application become moot.
Perception and reputation are really important. For me, I'm not too sure if the A4 and TLX being RWD will improve sales figures by that much, to the point that Audi and Acura would feel worthwhile to make a dedicated RWD platform. The Lexus IS, Cadillac ATS, Infiniti Q50, and Genesis G70 are all below the TLX and A4 in sales.
You are correct. Putting only the A4 and the TLX on a RWD platform will hardly do much. But putting the entire Audi and Acura product lines on RWD platforms may do wonder to the brands.
It is not just the A4 and the TLX are lagging significantly in sales behind the 3-series and the C-class. The A6 and the RLX are also doing very bad against the 5-series and the E-class too. Most other Audi/Acura car lines are doing just as bad versus BMW/MB.
The major issue at hand is the similarity in products between VW (econo) and Audi (luxury), and between Honda (econo) and Acura (near luxury). Many view that Audi's are some glorified VW's, and Acura's Honda's. This has seriously eroded the luxury premium image of the Audi and even more so for the Acura brands.
The only way to separate/differentiate Audi vs VW and Acura vs Honda products is to have RWD platforms dedicated for Audi/Acura cars, and let the econo VW/Honda brands remain on FWD platforms.
Only this way can Audi/Acura set themselves apart from the econo parent brands, and start to reap the benefit of RWD over AWD for high-engine-power cars which are the most important pinnacle for building a premium image for true luxury auto brands.
You are correct. Putting only the A4 and the TLX on a RWD platform will hardly do much. But putting the entire Audi and Acura product lines on RWD platforms may do wonder to the brands.
It is not just the A4 and the TLX are lagging significantly in sales behind the 3-series and the C-class. The A6 and the RLX are also doing very bad against the 5-series and the E-class too. Most other Audi/Acura car lines are doing just as bad versus BMW/MB.
The major issue at hand is the similarity in products between VW (econo) and Audi (luxury), and between Honda (econo) and Acura (near luxury). Many view that Audi's are some glorified VW's, and Acura's Honda's. This has seriously eroded the luxury premium image of the Audi and even more so for the Acura brands.
The only way to separate/differentiate Audi vs VW and Acura vs Honda products is to have RWD platforms dedicated for Audi/Acura cars, and let the econo VW/Honda brands remain on FWD platforms.
Only this way can Audi/Acura set themselves apart from the econo parent brands, and start to reap the benefit of RWD over AWD for high-engine-power cars which are the most important pinnacle for building a premium image for true luxury auto brands.
1) The Giulia is RWD and still isn't selling well. Reliability may be a reason why, but Germans still sell well despite that. Plus it won awards and is fun to drive.
2) RWD sells will be DOA in Canada, so investing more for better AWD tech is a much better strategy.
3) Going from a TLX to a A4 did not feel the same. The V2 TLX only recently fixed some material cheapness. Not sure why someone would say a VW is the same as Audi, Audi interiors are beautiful and have good materials and better options.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 09-14-2020 at 08:52 AM.
You are correct. Putting only the A4 and the TLX on a RWD platform will hardly do much. But putting the entire Audi and Acura product lines on RWD platforms may do wonder to the brands.
It is not just the A4 and the TLX are lagging significantly in sales behind the 3-series and the C-class. The A6 and the RLX are also doing very bad against the 5-series and the E-class too. Most other Audi/Acura car lines are doing just as bad versus BMW/MB.
The major issue at hand is the similarity in products between VW (econo) and Audi (luxury), and between Honda (econo) and Acura (near luxury). Many view that Audi's are some glorified VW's, and Acura's Honda's. This has seriously eroded the luxury premium image of the Audi and even more so for the Acura brands.
The only way to separate/differentiate Audi vs VW and Acura vs Honda products is to have RWD platforms dedicated for Audi/Acura cars, and let the econo VW/Honda brands remain on FWD platforms.
Only this way can Audi/Acura set themselves apart from the econo parent brands, and start to reap the benefit of RWD over AWD for high-engine-power cars which are the most important pinnacle for building a premium image for true luxury auto brands.
RWD won't help TLX sales. If that was the case, the Q50 would have been a smash hit! Acura is better off with AWD.
Also, as much as people say TLX is a just a fancy Accord. The same goes exactly to A4. A4 is just a fancy Jetta. That's not me, it's the perception of people. We have to be careful when we state certain thing. For example, if I am saying the the new TLX is an awesome looking car, and it looks better than C Class. That's my opinion and look is subjective. Some of you may not find it that way. It's completely fine!
Then the second thing is perception across the board: Like people say TLX is a fancy Accord. A4 is a fancy Jetta or ES is a fancy Camry. We cannot change people's perception over night. It takes decades before people see things differently.
On an other note, I saw a new Passat this morning and it looks awesome, I would say much better than an A4. I think a fully loaded Passat is the way to go and save money Why pay extra for 4 rings
I don't see how the Passat is better than the A4 from interior (top trims compared, base don't count). Engine power is not even the same (174 vs 252 hp). At least Accord and TLX share that part and hp is virtually the same.
I don't see how the Passat is better than the A4 from interior (top trims compared, base don't count). Engine power is not even the same (174 vs 252 hp). At least Accord and TLX share that part and hp is virtually the same.
Passat Executive
Versus A4 Technik:
I believe it's a matter of taste and pinion. I was very impressed by Passat's exterior this morning. Look much better than A4, especially the rear.
As far as the interior, A4 looks more techy but Passat is more classy! Also, don't forget, Passat was deigned in 2011, it's almost a decade old. But still looks awesome for a 10 year old car. With that price difference, I would go with Passat. The new Jetta GLI interior looks as fancy as A4 if not better.
The current G TLX is average 2,000 units per month. Q4 will be interesting to see how the new TLX will perform...will it add more sales numbers? Will it fail to do so due to the high initial start price and monthly lease amount? Also, we cannot ignore the pandemic situation as dealers are offering huge incentives to attract clients.
Acura has very interesting Q4 ahead, especially taking the new TLX into consideration:
1. Pandemic
2. Economic crisis
3. $5K high cost based on previous generation
4. Much higher lease price per month
5. Priced almost the same as a German vehicle (A4). Bold move!
6. The next big reveal, MDX.
That's true. Jetta has a lot of hard plastic. But price difference is huge too. We cannot ignore that part. Almost $20K (CAD) variance.
In that case, I suppose the Mitsubishi Mirage interior looks as fancy as Jetta GLI if not better. We cannot ignore the price difference. Almost 50% variance.
In that case, I suppose the Mitsubishi Mirage interior looks as fancy as Jetta GLI if not better. We cannot ignore the price difference. Almost 50% variance.
That's you opinion. Respect that! you're going a bit too far but it's okay!
We are all entitled to share our pinion in a public forum
That's you opinion. Respect that! you're going a bit too far but it's okay!
We are all entitled to share our pinion in a public forum
I'm just pointing out it's kind of silly to say the GLI interior is just as good or better as the A4, then backtrack when its pointed out that the GLI interior is actually pretty cheap and excuse it by saying "well, it's $20K cheaper".
The fact that no one is talking about powertrain trims on the new TLX is a bit confusing to me. Perhaps this thread is a different topic...
Trims that were announced along with the pricing of 2021 TLX will be a true "killer" of 2021 TLX... and I mean, it will KILL sales numbers ... who in their right mind will pay mid to high 40k price tag for a car with 2.0T with awd !?!?!?!? I certainly would not...
I'm just pointing out it's kind of silly to say the GLI interior is just as good or better as the A4, then backtrack when its pointed out that the GLI interior is actually pretty cheap and excuse it by saying "well, it's $20K cheaper".
There is no excuse. I still say the GLI's interior is nicer than A4. But I do agree that they used more hard plastic than an A4. Considering the quality of a GLI, fit and finish and design, I will take a GLI and save $20K. It's not like the A4 interior is flawless and there is no hard plastic. Actually many, many people find A4 interior cheap compared to 3 series and C Class.
Now if you like an Audi, for sure you will defend it and come up with million arguments. Still, I won't call you a fanboy. but you have to respect other people's opinion and not just pay for the 4 rings. Is Audi A4 is a bad car. Not at all. I think it's a good car and liked by thousands of people. But at the same time, it's disliked by many, many people as we can see more German fans buy 3 Series and C Class.
The fact that no one is talking about powertrain trims on the new TLX is a bit confusing to me. Perhaps this thread is a different topic...
Trims that were announced along with the pricing of 2021 TLX will be a true "killer" of 2021 TLX... and I mean, it will KILL sales numbers ... who in their right mind will pay mid to high 40k price tag for a car with 2.0T with awd !?!?!?!? I certainly would not...
Cough, I did, cough ... A4 does it and it really depends how the total package handles. If designed well, acceleration is still strong. What about AMG models making over 300hp and charging 50-60k+?
Cough, I did, cough ... A4 does it and it really depends how the total package handles. If designed well, acceleration is still strong. What about AMG models making over 300hp and charging 50-60k+?
A4 is a poor German car that doesn't sell compared to its German counterparts. People go more for Jetta and Golf instead of A4. That's all! Numbers don't lie...If you have a different number than mine, please share. i know Audi sold less than 40K units last year. there must be a reason behind it.
Let's go back to Acura topics and keep Audi discussion with Audi forums
A4 is a poor German car that doesn't sell compared to its German counterparts. People go more for Jetta and Golf instead of A4. That's all! Numbers don't lie...If you have a different number than mine, please share. i know Audi sold less than 40K units last year. there must be a reason behind it.
Let's go back to Acura topics and keep Audi discussion with Audi forums
TLX is a poor Japanese car that doesn't sell compared to its Japanese counterparts. People go more for Accord and Civic instead of TLX. That's all! Numbers don't lie...If you have a different number than mine, please share. i know Acura sold less than 30K units last year. there must be a reason behind it.
A4 is a poor German car that doesn't sell compared to its German counterparts. People go more for Jetta and Golf instead of A4. That's all! Numbers don't lie...If you have a different number than mine, please share. i know Audi sold less than 40K units last year. there must be a reason behind it.
Let's go back to Acura topics and keep Audi discussion with Audi forums
Acura doesn't burn the spreadsheets either, and it's (was) cheaper. TLX 26,548 -12.9% A4 26,435 -24%
Also, Acura doesn't have customization. I would love a 300hp TLX+ version (use the Lexus IS approach), or a 400hp Type-R. But we all know Acura will stick with this model and trims for 6 years, and charge people for it now. I see sales decreasing with the removal of the cheaper engine.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 09-14-2020 at 11:31 AM.
There is no excuse. I still say the GLI's interior is nicer than A4. But I do agree that they used more hard plastic than an A4. Considering the quality of a GLI, fit and finish and design, I will take a GLI and save $20K.
It's almost like you've never even been in the car, or at the very least read/watched some reviews. Pretty much all reviewers agree the GLI interior is considerably cheaper than the GTI, which itself feels a little cheaper than the Golf R, which itself feels cheaper than the S3, which itself feels cheaper than the A4. Something something transitive property, GLI <<< A4. To double down on the GLI having a nicer interior than an A4 pretty much wipes out whatever little credibility you have
TLX is a poor Japanese car that doesn't sell compared to its Japanese counterparts. People go more for Accord and Civic instead of TLX. That's all! Numbers don't lie...If you have a different number than mine, please share. i know Acura sold less than 30K units last year. there must be a reason behind it.
I agree with at least 50% of you argument. You are absolutely right that there are many people who opt in for Accord instead of TLX (not sure about Civic). People, who don't care for AWD and some fancy leather. They choose Accord. And you are right, number's don't lie.
But you are wrong when you compare TLX with its Japanese counterparts. I believe you consult the wrong website for the sales numbers. Let me refresh you:
2019:
TLX: 26,500
Q50: 26,000
IS: 15,000
For any sales numbers, consult the following website, it will help you to understand real sales numbers: https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/
It's almost like you've never even been in the car, or at the very least read/watched some reviews. Pretty much all reviewers agree the GLI interior is considerably cheaper than the GTI, which itself feels a little cheaper than the Golf R, which itself feels cheaper than the S3, which itself feels cheaper than the A4. Something something transitive property, GLI <<< A4. To double down on the GLI having a nicer interior than an A4 pretty much wipes out whatever little credibility you have
I agree with at least 50% of you argument. You are absolutely right that there are many people who opt in for Accord instead of TLX (not sure about Civic). People, who don't care for AWD and some fancy leather. They choose Accord. And you are right, number's don't lie.
But you are wrong when you compare TLX with its Japanese counterparts. I believe you consult the wrong website for the sales numbers. Let me refresh you:
2019:
TLX: 26,500
Q50: 26,000
IS: 15,000
For any sales numbers, consult the following website, it will help you to understand real sales numbers: https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/
You conveniently left out the ES350, which is what the FWD TLX competes with. But don’t let me stop you from cherry-picking numbers to support whatever belief you have.
I’m also unsure why you are conflating sales numbers with how good a car is. Your argument amounts to the idea that the Jetta and Golf outsells the A4, therefore they’re better than the A4?
You conveniently left out the ES350, which is what the FWD TLX competes with. But don’t let me stop you from cherry-picking numbers to support whatever belief you have.
haha cherry picking lol!
So you are comparing TLX to ES...then great! Did you know that TLX was sold 2X more than A6
Let's no go there. I totally respect your opinion and of course yourself. But admit when you are wrong or someone is right. You said about the accord numbers. i said you are right! I cannot deny the fact. But if you are here just to proof that Acura sux. Sure. Just say it. I have no problem with that.
So you are comparing TLX to ES...then great! Did you know that TLX was sold 2X more than A6
Let's no go there. I totally respect your opinion and of course yourself. But admit when you are wrong or someone is right. You said about the accord numbers. i said you are right! I cannot deny the fact. But if you are here just to proof that Acura sux. Sure. Just say it. I have no problem with that.
What's your point about bringing up the A6? Are you suggesting it's better than the A6 because it outsold it? Hey guess what, the TLX also outsold the entire Rolls Royce lineup. I guess that means the TLX is better than a Rolls, right?
You try to use numbers to justify your opinions, but just because you have numbers doesn't mean it's actually relevant. Don't even try playing that game; I sniff out bad "data-derived" conclusions for a living .
What's your point about bringing up the A6? Are you suggesting it's better than the A6 because it outsold it? Hey guess what, the TLX also outsold the entire Rolls Royce lineup. I guess that means the TLX is better than a Rolls, right?
You try to use numbers to justify your opinions, but just because you have numbers doesn't mean it's actually relevant. Don't even try playing that game; I sniff out bad "data-derived" conclusions for a living .
Okay I got your point! Enjoy bashing Acura and praising Audi. I am sure it helps you relax! Acura sux numbers do not mean anything, of course. Companies spend millions of dollar in R&D just for fun. Car companies just make cars for you and I to say which one has nice interior and has less plastic. Numbers means nothing. Peace brother!
Okay I got your point! Enjoy bashing Acura and praising Audi. I am sure it helps you relax! Acura sux numbers do not mean anything, of course. Companies spend millions of dollar in R&D just for fun. Car companies just make cars for you and I to say which one has nice interior and has less plastic. Numbers means nothing. Peace brother!
Aw come on, running away already? I guess we know who put the French in French Canadian
Yes, I know I'm an ahole about this, but I'd rather be an ahole and be right than be polite and be wrong
Aw come on, running away already? I guess we know who put the French in French Canadian
Yes, I know I'm an ahole about this, but I'd rather be an ahole and be right than be polite and be wrong
Brother, I am not running...I don't waste time without numbers and facts. You are used to just blah blah. Keep up the good work and the forum active! To make you feel even better, You WON yes!!!!
You are correct. Putting only the A4 and the TLX on a RWD platform will hardly do much. But putting the entire Audi and Acura product lines on RWD platforms may do wonder to the brands.
It is not just the A4 and the TLX are lagging significantly in sales behind the 3-series and the C-class. The A6 and the RLX are also doing very bad against the 5-series and the E-class too. Most other Audi/Acura car lines are doing just as bad versus BMW/MB.
The major issue at hand is the similarity in products between VW (econo) and Audi (luxury), and between Honda (econo) and Acura (near luxury). Many view that Audi's are some glorified VW's, and Acura's Honda's. This has seriously eroded the luxury premium image of the Audi and even more so for the Acura brands.
The only way to separate/differentiate Audi vs VW and Acura vs Honda products is to have RWD platforms dedicated for Audi/Acura cars, and let the econo VW/Honda brands remain on FWD platforms.
Only this way can Audi/Acura set themselves apart from the econo parent brands, and start to reap the benefit of RWD over AWD for high-engine-power cars which are the most important pinnacle for building a premium image for true luxury auto brands.
Haha I think we had this discussion years ago. I think we just have to agree to disagree.
I understand the benefits of RWD. Just not too convinced that it will help Audi or Acura in making more money, that's all. If anything, Audi may have more success with it since they sell way more cars than Acura worldwide. But they have also built around their reputation on quattro too.
Since the TLX hit the dealer at the end of the month, we cannot say much about the sales numbers. But definitely during this Pandemic, Acura is recovering and doing well.
Audi, BMW, Cad, Genensis & Infiniti are impacted more than Lexus, Porsche, Acura and Volvo.
Despite many naysayers' prediction, the new TLX seems to be doing ok. I noticed many (2G) TLXs were sold this week, so I can only assume people are taking notice of the new car. Let's see how that translate to the monthly sale next month. So far it looks good.
Since the TLX hit the dealer at the end of the month, we cannot say much about the sales numbers. But definitely during this Pandemic, Acura is recovering and doing well.
Audi, BMW, Cad, Genensis & Infiniti are impacted more than Lexus, Porsche, Acura and Volvo.
are these numbers all of North America including Canada?
Just the one Acura dealer in my large Texas city. They hardly ever run commercials.
They ran a commercial recently. It looks like one that Acura produced, and the dealer just inserts their name at the end.
09-14-2020, 12:44 AM
Why pay extra for 4 rings 
