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I did a quick search on the CT4BW and didn’t find many options; the ones I did find were in the high 70s and mid 80s. Similar to all vehicles in today’s market, the markups don’t help. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t there multiple options that bump the CT4BW past the 60k mark?
This might be a do over but the base car is $59,000. All the rest is optional since you can build the car they you want
I think you’re missing the CTV4BW on 60+ club. Do people not know about this car? It seems to constantly be looked over. It’s literally THE fastest car in the segment.
Technically, the Model 3 Performance is probably the fastest in the segment but usually dismissed just for being an EV, which is a shame.
I think you’re missing the CTV4BW on 60+ club. Do people not know about this car? It seems to constantly be looked over. It’s literally THE fastest car in the segment.
i never checked on price i honestly thought it started higher then it does since ive never seen one for less the 69 before but, after pricing one out id have to say its close to being a bracket above the 60+ group, probably about 4g or so more then the rest of that group. Awesome car though.
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
You need to move the CT4VBW up to the 60+club. Base stripped 6MT starts at $59,640 Equipped equal to an M340 I would buy its in the $74,000 range. The was C&D tested the car & ran Lightning Laps was $78,985. The M340 I would buy is about $62,000. ($61,250 Build Your Car) Your $53,000 car lists as $53,800 with paint & $54,600 with Paint & Tires. So if I was buying both cars the S would cost me $54,600 VS $62,000. That's a spread of $7,200.
So yeah as has always been said the M340 costs more but $11,000 more is a big bite. You can't load a car up with every available option because most are not bought that way. People leave out what they don't want. I have had a number of 3/4 series & none went over $63,000 on the sticker even with the performance packages included.
The M4C convert goes from $86,500 to $115,880. Based on the forum traffic very few cars go over $100,000 & most are in the mid $90,000 range
Think you are overstating the reliability thing. Everybody here seems to have forgotten the TLX G1 launch. Remember the 9 speed transmissions? The TL 4G launch Oil consumption & bad Torque Converters. 3G bad AT & MT transmissions. 2G.1 Engine to strong for the transmissions. BMW have been pretty solid not perfect since the F & G series. The last of the E series were also pretty good. Bitching on the forums in way down & CR recommended buys are pretty standard for most F & G models 2,3,5 series. Some are not recommended but then the TLX G1 also was not recommended.
Anyway I do not think your group 1 vs group 2 really exist as competitors. Agree its the pricing causes very little cross buying. There might be cross shopping but many those people are not going to pay a higher price than is comfortable for them. Average price of a USA car is about $45,000. So both these groups are out of range for a lot of people.
You know if the BMW were so bad that you were to sacred to get one gotta wonder what these people see in them. On the luxury side of things, Mercedes-Benz keeps it close to Lexus (49%) with a (47.8%) loyalty rate. BMW (45.1%), Porsche (44.9%) and Audi (43.4%) make up the top five luxury car brands with the most loyal customers.
-Thats the regular ct4v not the BW i was referencing at 50+
- $7200 difference +tax closing in on 8, for the car as you would order it. That is still a large difference. If you want to say 11 is high im fine with that, id be fine with 8+ Thats still a lot
sidebar, im Canadian and the pricing difference is even greater up here for whatever reason. The Type S is $60,000 with paint, summer tires standard… thats equivalent to $46,989 US. The bimmers are much closer to being us/can price equal.
secondary sidebar, US taxes are amazing, sales tax where i live is 13.5, average in the us looks to be about 7.5%.
-expected reliability is completely based on previous experiences. Honda as a whole has been considered extremely reliable for decades, and although their may be some regression to the norm in the last 15 years, if you poled 100 people and asked them whats more reliable, a Honda or a BMW, what would the general consensus be? BMW circa 1997-2010 and honda circa 1985-2000 is burned in a lot of peoples brains for opposite reasons. Bmw has gotten better since then and Honda marginally worse but when it comes to trusting a company with your $55,000 for a daily driver it’s a consideration. I have owned 6 Honda products with literally no major issues. I owned 1 german vehicle for 2 years and it was monthly issues. Ive never had a siezed engine in any vehicle in my life except my one German fling. Im not eager to “give em another go” when im depending on getting to work and my kids to school every day. Would the bimmer be perfectly reliable? Probably, but i’ll let someone else risk it and take the Acura please and thanks.
im Canadian and the pricing difference is even greater up here for whatever reason. The Type S is $60,000 with paint, summer tires standard… thats equivalent to $46,989 US. The bimmers are much closer to being us/can price equal.
secondary sidebar, US taxes are amazing, sales tax where i live is 13.5, average in the us looks to be about 7.5%.
WHOA! In Canada, Type-S is cheaper than US AND comes with more equipment like the 360 cam? ☹️, or😄 for you Canadians
I think you’re missing the CTV4BW on 60+ club. Do people not know about this car? It seems to constantly be looked over. It’s literally THE fastest car in the segment.
I’m not sure where you are getting you info. The tests I’ve seen have the M340 faster 0-60, and they are virtually dead even in the 1/4 mile
I’m not sure where you are getting you info. The tests I’ve seen have the M340 faster 0-60, and they are virtually dead even in the 1/4 mile
Agree on normal DD use. That said the Blackwing turned in a better time at Lighting Laps. The 2020 M340 382BHP was tested at LL a few years ago & this year the 2022 Blackwing 472BHP did better 255.6 to 303.2. That's a pretty good lead at VIR. Caddy deserves a thumbs up
sombasol -That's the regular ct4v not the BW i was referencing at 50+
The regular CT4V is a 4 cylinder 325BHP car that starts at $45,895 Does a good 0-60 4.9 C&D posted
60 mph: 4.9 sec ¼-mile: 13.4 sec
Looks like it will run with the Type-S agree leave it in the 50+ group
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 03-15-2022 at 08:44 PM.
Agree on normal DD use. That said the Blackwing turned in a better time at Lighting Laps. The 2020 M340 382BHP was tested at LL a few years ago & this year the 2022 Blackwing 472BHP did better 255.6 to 303.2. That's a pretty good lead at VIR. Caddy deserves a thumbs up
The regular CT4V is a 4 cylinder 325BHP car that starts at $45,895 Does a good 0-60 4.9 C&D posted
60 mph: 4.9 sec ¼-mile: 13.4 sec
Looks like it will run with the Type-S agree leave it in the 50+ group
I took his post to mean fast as in 0-60 and quarter mile. No question the Cadillac gets great marks for handling. And I’m comparing the Blackwing version to the M340. You and I are on the same page.
Agree on normal DD use. That said the Blackwing turned in a better time at Lighting Laps. The 2020 M340 382BHP was tested at LL a few years ago & this year the 2022 Blackwing 472BHP did better 255.6 to 303.2. That's a pretty good lead at VIR. Caddy deserves a thumbs up
The regular CT4V is a 4 cylinder 325BHP car that starts at $45,895 Does a good 0-60 4.9 C&D posted
60 mph: 4.9 sec ¼-mile: 13.4 sec
Looks like it will run with the Type-S agree leave it in the 50+ group
CT4V lines up much closer to Type S then the blackwing. ~46 is just a starting point so they can say that,
when optioned similarily to the type S you’re at about $57g. Almost exactly the same price as type S if you dont add AWD and painted calipers.
Think I said that the car aligns with the S & should be in the 50+ group. Did not bother to do the "full build your car" thing as looking at the two BlackWings the Caddy's adds a lot into the build. The $59,000 BW comes out at $74,000 - $78,000 + tax, tags & dealer OTD.
By was of comparison here is how I would buy a M340. If you slide down under the car picture the details are there
BTW TL fires were in same time frame as the BMW fires which the "According to NHTSA, the recalls cover vehicles built between 2006 and 2013 & fires have been rare".
Also my 2006 TL was in the recall for possible fire due to frayed wires. Was either the windshield wipers or heater fan IIRC. Not worth the trouble of looking up my Gen 3 posts, expect I might to trip over my posts about my failed & replaced 6MT @ 22,000 miles.
So in the same time frame on the good side the BMW has moved to a 503BHP 6 & Acura to a 355BHP 6. Only big issue is a spotty record for transmission failures in G1 TLX & a neutered 1st gear performance limitation in 1st gear for the G2 TLX-TypeS.
It was from leaking power steering hose dripping onto the Cat and starting a fire. It was a recall to have those replaced.
It was from leaking power steering hose dripping onto the Cat and starting a fire. It was a recall to have those replaced.
Found the frayed wires were a TSB not a full recall. They just lead to failure of the windshield wipers not a fire. Did have the PS hose leak fixed but they did it during a regular service & I did not realize it was a recall item. Might have been fixed before the recall was issued.
Well, my 3G TL, an '07 Type-S is still on the road. Fairly low mileage @ 125K. Before I retired I often road my Harley to work, weather permitting, so that saved it ~50K miles. Then I spent much of 2019 and 2020 in Berlin.
It's had all the maintenance and runs great. But it suffers from the standard issue cracked dash that Acura won't replace and a GPS that has the same clock issue as every other Nav equipped pre 2013 Honda and Acura vehicle, thinking it's 2002. Honda won't fix that either.
It'll be gone soon. My new car arrived in Baltimore this week. It needs two missing modules (thanks to the component shortages), but they should be installed soon. Then I'll finally get the car I ordered five and a half months ago.
Not every Acura, My 2011 MDX has not faced the clock issue. on a separate note, I am so keen on replacing my MDX with another MDX but Acura had to mess around with entertainment system
My previous vehicle was a 2019 Civic Type R, which I sold for 21 TLX-S. The CTR was great but definitely had stiffer suspension and since I have littles one, they didn’t like that part of it. I enjoyed it and also had modified it but I’m happy with my TLX-S, although it could be more spacious on the inside, it works for me and my family. The wifey has a 2019 RDX, that one is spacious and is more of the family vehicle.
How do you find the RDX? I test drove a 2019 and the transmission made me wonder if it was a CVT as it droned like crazy.
WHOA! In Canada, Type-S is cheaper than US AND comes with more equipment like the 360 cam? ☹️, or😄 for you Canadians
Originally Posted by sombasol
i believe the new civic si has a similar more stuff less money thing going on in Canada too
Yep and the case was similar for the First Gen Stinger Top end model which had more features and cost less than US version. Also for previous TLX, Elite A-Spec was only available in Canada, US only got it with the PMC edition.
Yep and the case was similar for the First Gen Stinger Top end model which had more features and cost less than US version. Also for previous TLX, Elite A-Spec was only available in Canada, US only got it with the PMC edition.
I owned the 2.4 2018 Elite ASpec, the first time I could enjoy a loaded vehicle as a 4 cylinder driver.
Felicity Ace the ship that caught fire and ultimately sunk in the Atlantic was carrying 15 Lamborghini Aventadors. Lamborghini is going to reopen the production line to replace the cars which were the last of the run.
Yep and the case was similar for the First Gen Stinger Top end model which had more features and cost less than US version. Also for previous TLX, Elite A-Spec was only available in Canada, US only got it with the PMC edition.
on the other hand, if you want an Odyssey in Canada right now it STARTS at the EX-L, $48,305. I paid $27,000 for my LX in 2012, if i replace it the odyssey isnt even a viable option for me at that price. Kia carnival starts at $34,795, thats a massive gap.
on the other hand, if you want an Odyssey in Canada right now it STARTS at the EX-L, $48,305. I paid $27,000 for my LX in 2012, if i replace it the odyssey isnt even a viable option for me at that price. Kia carnival starts at $34,795, thats a massive gap.
Yeah Honda definitely prices its products higher in Canada, they do try to add in a few extra goodies than US market but still its expensive here.
Felicity Ace the ship that caught fire and ultimately sunk in the Atlantic was carrying 15 Lamborghini Aventadors. Lamborghini is going to reopen the production line to replace the cars which were the last of the run.
Damn, first the Porsche's now the Aventadors. Speaking of which I thought they were about to switch to the next gen V12 and stop making the Aventadors? I guess its still little far out.
Are you sure? Elite spec was only for V6 and not for I4 for the pre-refresh models.
The 2018 Elite ASpec I4 was strictly a 2018 refresh option. In Canada that year, you could get 10 different versions of the TLX, - 5 V6 and 5 I4. Base, Tech, ASpec, Elite, Elite ASpec. They also had red leather options for the ASpec and Elite ASpec. That was the first year you could only get the 6 cylinder with SH-AWD. Lots of choices!
I never understood the re-sale value thing. Unless buying a classic collectable car they are all a waste of money. You're going to have massive depreciation even if you consider the re sale "Good".
I wouldn’t say this applies to only classic cars; vehicles that are sought after even if from the 90s, 2000s or now can demand a high price point. Examples: MKIV Supras, Mustang Cobras, Type Rs, BMW M series, Mitsubishi EVOs; etc.
Correct! but when you buy a car for $50K today and you sell it for $30K in 5 years vs, you buy a car for $50K and you sell if for $25K after 5 years. There is a $5K difference. Very simple
i agree with most of the cars mentioned by MT. I right now the G70 3.3T is selling brand new for $4K cheaper vs. TYPE S for $5K more
Damn, that was brutal to watch just simply because he didn't want to piss off the Stinger community. It's bad when someone says what's good about the car is it drives down the road really great 👍🏽 😂😂😂. Gee thanks!
You have failed once again ha ha! It's a sporty enough daily driver that isn't perfect but pretty damn good. So...what's your point?
? Why the aggression towards him? He posted a video about a competitor from one of the highest quality car review channels. Did something touch a nerve? He contributed to the thread with his post…
Last edited by richii0207; 04-09-2022 at 08:27 PM.
You have failed once again ha ha! It's a sporty enough daily driver that isn't perfect but pretty damn good. So...what's your point?
How did Tony fail? In the past thread that discussed this very topic there were quite a few people stating that the Stinger was above and beyond other vehicles by posting positive reviews. Now we have one of the most informative reviewers stating differently so he’s posting it for comparison sake.
In no way is Tony trying to say it’s a terrible car. Rather he’s asking why those posting non stop love videos for the car didn’t address this video at all. Don’t get me wrong — the Stinger is a nice car but you’d never catch me spending my hard earned money on a Korean car. I am not sure if KIA suffered from the same issues but the local Hyundai dealers here have had 25+ cars at one time awaiting engine replacements. That’s not a typo.
I suppose we'll see what the market looks like in a few years! I hope Acura doesn't intentionally limit how much of the Type S they build too much though (barring any influence due to the supply chain issues now though). That might make them hard to find used at a "bargain" price. There may be enough people hoping to get a deal on a used one though that they may be hard to come by too. I'd otherwise be interested in picking up a Type S for sure.
At that point it'll be interesting to see how the car will have aged after being driven for a few years (assuming not gently all the time either) since there's so much that's new about it too. I assume it should still be in good shape, being only a few years old by then. Could be a good performance used car "bargain" but again, we'll see. Used car market definitely opens up things to a larger audience but also more competition/options for buyers since the pricing of used vehicles is lower (assuming the market isn't somehow even more insane in a few years).
My family but the bullet and got a lease on the Type-S Tlx, man, it doesn’t feel as fast as the g70 but I’d like to believe its more reliable with the beefed up trans and from some pictures (which very few exist of) the actual internals seem genuinely impressive and it looks like it can definitely take some mods, on that note, I wonder is a JB4 piggypack would be a good idea on a leased car and if Acura can detect it.
? Why the aggression towards him? He posted a video about a competitor from one of the highest quality car review channels. Did something touch a nerve? He contributed to the thread with his post…
Originally Posted by KrylonBlue
How did Tony fail? In the past thread that discussed this very topic there were quite a few people stating that the Stinger was above and beyond other vehicles by posting positive reviews. Now we have one of the most informative reviewers stating differently so he’s posting it for comparison sake.
In no way is Tony trying to say it’s a terrible car. Rather he’s asking why those posting non stop love videos for the car didn’t address this video at all. Don’t get me wrong — the Stinger is a nice car but you’d never catch me spending my hard earned money on a Korean car. I am not sure if KIA suffered from the same issues but the local Hyundai dealers here have had 25+ cars at one time awaiting engine replacements. That’s not a typo.
Because it's the usual stuff from a few, Tony included, that whenever there is a less than stellar review of the TLX it is explained away (no matter how much spin needs to be used) but when it's a competitor it's look look, this car isn't what it's cracked up to be ha ha the haters are silent! This review is damn near identical to some TLX reviews (as in not perfect, but a good daily driver and for what it is) but somehow this video is valid and the TLX ones are not?
Because it's the usual stuff from a few, Tony included, that whenever there is a less than stellar review of the TLX it is explained away (no matter how much spin needs to be used) but when it's a competitor it's look look, this car isn't what it's cracked up to be ha ha the haters are silent! This review is damn near identical to some TLX reviews (as in not perfect, but a good daily driver and for what it is) but somehow this video is valid and the TLX ones are not?
I understand your point of view on this. I can’t speak for anyone other than myself but I will say that both sides need to be mentioned equally. I feel Tony, while maybe a bit too much of a defense-squad mentality at times, has a point though. There have been several instances of proving how the TLX Type S falls short while praising the Stinger to no end. However, once a video review came out that didn’t praise the Stinger, we didn’t see those same people posting this point of view. Granted, it’s most likely because they didn’t see the video but Tony was, in my view, just pointing that review out to them. Maybe he shouldn’t have worded it the way he did but point is still valid.
The truth is no car is perfect. Do I love my Type S? Absolutely! Does it have its flaws? Certainly. Do I like the Stinger? Yes, I do although I wouldn’t buy a KIA. Doesn’t make it a bad car though.
Because it's the usual stuff from a few, Tony included, that whenever there is a less than stellar review of the TLX it is explained away (no matter how much spin needs to be used) but when it's a competitor it's look look, this car isn't what it's cracked up to be ha ha the haters are silent! This review is damn near identical to some TLX reviews (as in not perfect, but a good daily driver and for what it is) but somehow this video is valid and the TLX ones are not?
Isn’t this the same behavior, but inversely with several members, including yourself, that takes any opportunity to badmouth Acura and their products in every negative way?
Isn’t this the same behavior, but inversely with several members, including yourself, that takes any opportunity to badmouth Acura and their products in every negative way?
Nope, I'm just realistic and many can't handle anything that doesn't line up with their spin. I've mentioned both what I like about the TLX/Acura and what I don't like yet people like you focus on just my "negative" comments (negative in quotes because many times I'm just being realistic e.g. Acura hyped up the Type-S and performance-wise it fell flat). Unfortunately, I feel as if the brand and most of the lineup has missed opportunities, hasn't been living up to their own hype and heading in the wrong direction. Acura seems to feel that way underneath it all too, as they are milking this lineup for all that its worth, being lazy with new products like the Integra* and will be moving straight to EV.
*Ironically their laziness and being more like Honda is what I actually like about the product, as I think the interior and infotainment is better than Acura's current setup.
Nope, I'm just realistic and many can't handle anything that doesn't line up with their spin. I've mentioned both what I like about the TLX/Acura and what I don't like yet people like you focus on just my "negative" comments (negative in quotes because many times I'm just being realistic e.g. Acura hyped up the Type-S and performance-wise it fell flat). Unfortunately, I feel as if the brand and most of the lineup has missed opportunities, hasn't been living up to their own hype and heading in the wrong direction. Acura seems to feel that way underneath it all too, as they are milking this lineup for all that its worth, being lazy with new products like the Integra* and will be moving straight to EV.
*Ironically their laziness and being more like Honda is what I actually like about the product, as I think the interior and infotainment is better than Acura's current setup.
I’m not targeting you. In fact, I’m sure we would agree on some things but I’m not looking at everything in a negative way. You’re lack of posts with positivity makes it hard to find some common ground for agreement.
From you perspective, the Type S falls flat on performance. To me, it checks all the right boxes. There’s a lot more to the Type S than you probably think. Savagegeese has an amazing review on it. https://youtu.be/Vgx5y5k_Q9o
Last edited by richii0207; 04-10-2022 at 03:03 PM.
I’m not targeting you. In fact, I’m sure we would agree on some things but I’m not looking at everything in a negative way. You’re lack of posts with positivity makes it hard to find some common ground for agreement.
From you perspective, the Type S falls flat on performance. To me, it checks all the right boxes. There’s a lot more to the Type S than you probably think. Savagegeese has an amazing review on it. https://youtu.be/Vgx5y5k_Q9o
I find it hard to believe that you know all of my posts, especially considering how long I have been around here and how many Honda/Acura vehicles I have owned and driven.
The Type-S was hyped up to be THE performance vehicle and it fell flat. Add in that it's missing some options for its price point and I stand by that overall it's kind of a flop in comparison to what it was made out to be. The argument from the boosters is that it checks all of the right boxes for them and that's fine, but as long as being a speedy leader in its class isn't one of them I guess. The MDX-S is falling short in this category also. And oddly as of now there is no RDX-S in the works so that tells me some things too.
Just a reminder to keep this discussion civil and on topic. There is nothing wrong with giving your thoughts on the TLX versus the competition even if it’s negative towards the TLX. I don’t want to see this turn into a personal attack thread because at that point I’ll have to lock it up.
I find it hard to believe that you know all of my posts, especially considering how long I have been around here and how many Honda/Acura vehicles I have owned and driven.
The Type-S was hyped up to be THE performance vehicle and it fell flat. Add in that it's missing some options for its price point and I stand by that overall it's kind of a flop in comparison to what it was made out to be. The argument from the boosters is that it checks all of the right boxes for them and that's fine, but as long as being a speedy leader in its class isn't one of them I guess. The MDX-S is falling short in this category also. And oddly as of now there is no RDX-S in the works so that tells me some things too.
I believe the common thought process to the RDX-S was that we will see one once the new RDX models come out. The MDX and TLX were all new platforms while the RDX is running at its end.
Correct! but when you buy a car for $50K today and you sell it for $30K in 5 years vs, you buy a car for $50K and you sell if for $25K after 5 years. There is a $5K difference. Very simple
i agree with most of the cars mentioned by MT. I right now the G70 3.3T is selling brand new for $4K cheaper vs. TYPE S for $5K more
Depreciation is calculated from list price, not purchase price. I got a $6,000 discount on my G70. I also leased so the depreciation is locked in. That changes the math a LOT.
My lease payment, which includes some tax, is 580 a month. So let’s call it about $20,000 it’s going to cost me for three years - backing out taxes. That means my $53,000 list price car has a residual of about $33,000 after three years. That gives me a residual of about 62% courtesy of the discounts that Genesis offered.
03-15-2022, 04:35 PM
