MedX172

Okay, so I had this feature on my 2013 Accord Touring. When on, and you changed lanes without having your turn signal on then a pulsing beep occurred and a light lit up and it said "Lane Departure". Pretty straight forward and somewhat of an annoying feature at times in city driving because it had a hair trigger for beeping and complaining.


It would appear that LDW and RDM (Road Departure Mitigation) are tied to the same camera on the TLX. Now I clearly know that the system is engaged because the lights illuminated. Regardless, no matter what I've tried, I can't get the system to activate (LDW). I'd just assume not test RDM, but I'm assuming that if one is malfunctioning then the other is likely doing so as well?


Anyone had this go off? Or been able to test it?


Thanks!

tlxsteve

Mine beeps and flashes at me every day as does the collision warning when I follow too close. Also, BSI beeps at me for not giving enough room when I pass a car. The only beeps I should get but don't is with the cross traffic monitoring.

When you depart from a lane with no signal, does the line you cross over flash on the MID in the dash?

Does your LKAS work?

Do you have Tech or Advance?

Quandry

MedX172: you may want to read this thread on the topic as well.
https://acurazine.com/forums/fifth-g...gation-918081/

MedX172

Hey Steve, I've got the V6 Advance. No, today I tried on a number of different occasions and within the speeds the manual indicates it's suppose to work, to get it to trigger. I crossed clear hashed white Interstate lines and even went over a few white solid painted lines to see what would happen and ...nada.


In regards to LKAS, I've really haven't an opportunity except for last night to really try it. I turned it and adaptive cruise on and I must admit it was kinda weird. I could feel the steering wheel making odd, minuet corrections while it was on. Of course, I really wasn't straying from my lane, but it was still making some minor corrections.


Is that "normal"? Does the steering feel different when LKAS is on?


I don't really have a frame of reference for what it felt like other than aviation based. It's like having your hands on the yoke with heading hold engaged and feeling the plane making tiny course corrections.

Quandry

Did your read the link I provided above? The beep is very subtle, similar to the acquisition of a vehicle when ACC is on.

The sensation that you are experiencing with LKAS is normal. It works too keep the car centered between the lane markings.

MedX172

Yes, I did Quandry. I've had LDW on my 2013 Accord Touring and I've found that ACC is pretty similar between the two vehicles. What I'm saying is that during a lane departure, not only is there no audible warning, but there's no visual queue either. No orange flashing lane light..zip.

Quandry

Have you activated the LDW switch? It is one of the bank of switches on the lower left near the door, and a green indicator will come on when activated. Also does the steering wheel give a slight pull to get the car back into the lane?

lsbuffs

I also have the V6 Advance and what you are describing is my experience as well. I had mentioned in a related thread that when I get an MDX loaner with the same technology, driving on the same roads, I'd get that lane departure warning frequently. (Perhaps too often) Now in my TLX, I rarely get it. It has come on before, and the beep is very feint as described, but it's very rare that I received a LDW. Even trying to get that warning, driving well above the speeds required to engage, is tough.

The LKAS seems to work as expected.

tlxsteve

Looks like you may have an issue with LDW. Best to take it in and check. They owe you that much to fix it, adjust it or show you have to turn it on.

Yes. That tugging on the steering wheel is normal. You can even let go of the steering wheel for 15 seconds and the car drives itself! Quite weird. Even around slight turns. The car will prompt you to grab the steering wheel after 15 seconds. I guess LKAS is for the hands like cruise control is for the feet.

Quandry

You are mixing up two features.

LDW by itself should flash a warning, make and almost inaudible beep, and tug the steering wheel. There is no attempt to keep the car in the center of the lane.

LKAS when on will show two lane markers on the display, tries to keep the car centered with an occasion slight correction of the steering wheel, and can operation independently for up to 15 seconds without driver control, if there is good lane marking. After 15 seconds it will be inoperable and flash a warning.

lsbuffs

Does the LDW really tug the steering wheel. I was thinking that was the Road Departure Mitigation(RDM), which I believe shares the same on/off button with the LDW.

My LKAS works fine, but can't seem to get LDW to engage. LDW and RDM seem to be similar, with both providing a signal of lane drift in the MID. RDM goes a step further and adds steering wheel torque and vibrations when necessary. Not sure I've had RDM come into play yet.

I did notice some option in the vehicle settings referring to the LDW. Something about suspending a beep. I've flipped that back and forth and put the car into a situation that should generate a LDW, but don't get any beeps nor visual indications in the MID.

Quandry

Yes, LDW does tug on the steering wheel. The next level of intervention is RDM, see p375, which will apply braking. Think of them as one function with two levels of intervention.

tlxsteve

LDW does not tug my steering wheel and the beep is not faint.

LDW does alert you if you leave the lane, but yeah it doesn't keep you in. Sorry if I mislead you.

LKAS disconnects/unlocks if the stripes on the road are dirty or cannot be read. It also drops if you lose a lane stripe on either side or drop below a certain speed or touch the brake or change lanes; but it will attempt to reconnect.


LKAS does the tugging, NOT LDW. At least in my car.

MedX172

So, I actually had some early morning Interstate time today and traffic wasn't dense, so I made a point of driving like 40% of the other California drivers and didn't use a blinker.


I crossed hashed links, solid lines, etc. and nary a peep from LDW (yup, confirmed it's definitely on). Doing this in my Accord would have had it screaming at me (just like isbuff's experience in the MDX).


While driving, I turned on ACC and set it for 65mph. I then turned on LKAS. It's my understanding that LKAS, LDW, RDM all use the same front camera as part of their functionality.


I was in the middle lane of a 3 lane highway, cruising by myself. I released control and as I approached a slight bend to the left in the road, the TLX left the middle lane and leisurely drifted into the right most lane, and then continued to drift across the solid white interstate line on the far right. I did proactively guide it back into the 3rd lane, but during this experience LKAS, did nothing. I did feel, as I continued to drive, some weak minor input from the system here and there, but nothing occurred.


Suddenly, an audible beep sounded and the statement "ACC OFF" appeared in the display. Any attempts to reengage ACC was met with the same white "ACC OFF" notification and 3 beeps. I tried turning the MAIN button off and back on and attempted ACC again, but no luck. Each time I pressed SET, it was immediately followed by the alert.


My thoughts are perhaps a camera failure or intermittent camera failure? At any rate, it's scheduled for a visit on Saturday.

lsbuffs

As I was again this morning trying to engage the LDW, I was thinking about what the service dept. would do to investigate the lack of LDW. Wonder if they have some diagnostic program? I'm picturing them taking my car out on the open roads over 45mph violating traffic laws crossing over dashed and solid lines. Can't imagine they'd ask their service folks to break the law to test a customer's car.

Anyway, keep us posted on Saturday's visit. Seems there are quite a few V6 Advance where this warning is absent.

tlxsteve

Incorrect.

There is no tug on LDW.

Are you saying it's different in a V6?

tlxsteve

No mention of tactile alerts for LDW


Page 372 in my manual says the following...

Quandry

I was out driving and did another test. Contrary to my previous update I could not hear a beep (audio and fan were off and windows closed). LKAS was off and LDW was on and the warning flashed and there was definitely a tug on the steering wheel. It is possible that it implemented varies by model or even US vs Canada, but that makes no sense.

tlxsteve

Acura sense. Look at the issue with Cross Traffic Monitoring. Seems to work on Advance but not Tech.

https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-b...toring-918395/

Quandry

Considering all these variations (beeps/arrows/tugs/navigation) leads me to believe that they are all software controlled at a level deeper than just the "hidden" menu. It reminds about computer hardware that is/was sold in different configurations but the only actual difference was the firmware configuration.

A recall/fix/update from Acura seems highly unlikely and would be a first in the industry.

Quandry

Here is a revelation:

- The Technology package models have the LDW feature. It flashes a warning and beeps (no vibration of the steering wheel)

- The Advance/Elite package models have the RDM (and not LDW) feature. It flashes a warning and vibrates the steering wheel (no beeping)

Discrepancy solved.

MedX172

Actually, I don't think that's entirely correct:


Lane Departure Warning (LDW)
Included in the Technology Package and Advance Package, Lane Departure Warning (LDW) is designed to alert the driver if the vehicle is leaving a detected lane without the turn signal being activated. The system functions at speeds from 45 to 90 mph on straight or slightly curved roads, alerting the driver of deviations from a detected road.


In TLX models equipped with the Technology Package or Advanced Package, the same upper front windshield camera is used for LDW, FCW, and LKAS.


Road Departure Mitigation (RDM)
Included in the Advance Package, Road Departure Mitigation (RDM) is a new technology for Acura. RDM uses a Monocular Camera (mounted on the upper portion of the windshield) to identify solid or dashed painted lane lines, Botts' Dots and Cat Eye markers. RDM uses both steering force, via EPS, and braking force, via VSA, to help the TLX stay in its lane.


The monocular camera recognizes lane features and identifies the lane. If the RDM system detects that the TLX is about to leave the detected lane, it will provide steering assist (primary) and in rare occasions when steering is not sufficient, braking assist, to help the driver stay on the road. Only lane departure is activated if the driver is passing over a dashed line, bott's dots or cat eye, while deceleration support is disabled. In this case, TLX uses active steering force to return to the lane. RDM is integrated with the Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) system to provide moderate braking, and with the Electric Power Steering (EPS) system to provide steering input.


It would appear to me that RDM is an independent system, that also interacts with LDW and VSA/EPS.


Source: http://www.acura.com/PressReleaseArt...014&id=7879-en

lsbuffs

This is an interesting discussion and hope we get to the bottom of it. For what it's worth, I just looked over the window sticker that came with my TLX V6 Advance, and there's no mention of LDW.

Supposing my Advance has only RDM, it still doesn't answer the question as to why I don't get any notification when my vehicle gets close to or crosses over left and right lane markings in white or yellow without my turn signal activated. This despite traveling over 45 mph. Although I believe I've done this, I will do a test later to double check that I'm not accelerating (or braking) and that the steering wheel is not being turned. Both of those are listed on page 376 of the manual as conditions that would prevent the system from being activated.

As a side note, if the Advance does not have LDW, it would seem that it loses some of the notifications that LDW provides, specifically a warning if you're crossing over a lane marking while accelerating or braking.

Quandry

As I posted in another thread, the Technology package has the LDW feature and the Advance/Elite package has the RDM (and not LDW) feature.

For RDM to work the switch must be turned on (lower left bank on the dash near the door), and the green light lit. The steering wheel will vibrate if the Road Departure Mitigation Setting is on Normal or Wide, and warning should flash for all settings (Warning Only). If this is not happening then there is either a problem.

MedX172

Quandry, did you read the link from Acura above. According to them, vehicles with both Advanced/Elite and Technology packages have LDW.


There's a distinct difference between "Departing a lane" and "Departing the road". The camera/computer system analyzes the hash/solid aspects of the governing lines on the road to determine whether or not to use LDW or RDM.

MedX172

Okay, back from Acura, not because it was a quick fix, but because Acura Technical service must be on Eastern Time and close earlier on the weekends. The Service Manager listened to my concerns and asked if he could get a Technician to go for a short road trip to assess the TLX with me. Clearly, they just wanted to make sure I had all the appropriate buttons on and that I was clearly interpreting my expectations.


I let him drive. (random: This handsome lad bore such an uncanny resemblance to my first crush many moons ago that it was nearly distracting *cough* anyways...)


In official language, Acura discourages real world testing of these systems for obvious reasons. Putting safety systems in play clearly has risks. They're suppose to show you a video about how it's suppose to work. Of course, I don't see how that actually allows them detect subtle differences, so all I can say is good luck with that, Acura. Besides, since it was LDW, not using a blinker just makes you blend in with the majority of California drivers. At any rate, we testing LDW, RDM (yes, he confirmed, 2 separate systems within the same software), LKAS and ACC. LDW worked one time out of about 20. He commented that he recently drove an RDX for about 30 days and it was so annoying he turned it off in city driving. He was shocked he couldn't get it to work even if you were thumping the tires on the Botts Dots. RDM only worked one time in our tests and LKAS was the same way. I was really happy that he experienced the same problem with ACC that I did. It kept shutting off and refusing to reengage with the "ACC OFF" display/beep.


At any rate, the Service Manager wanted him to be the one to work the problem, since he took the drive. I'll be bringing it back in on Tuesday so they have full access to Acura Tech support for the whole day to troubleshoot.

Quandry

There is a single on/off button for the LDW/RDM, and my interpretation is that RDM is an enhancement of LDW. But it does not really matter if it comprised of two systems with common software or two variation of one system. Here are my conclusion from reading the Handbook and actual driving experience.

Base Model - does not have these features

Tech Model - has LDW
- when the switch is turned on the indicator light on the switch comes on
- when a line has been crossed, there is a soft beep along with a flashing warning message (p380 left side of the page)

Advance/Elite Model - has RDM (supersedes LDW)
- when the switch is turned on the indicator light on the switch comes on and the Road Departure Mitigation On message is briefly displayed
- there is a Driver Assist System Setup option for RDM Setting (Normal/Wide/Warning)
- when a line has been crossed and the RDM Setting is Warning, the system operates like the Tech Model (LDW mode if that make anyone feel better)
- when a line has been crossed and the RDM Setting is Normal or Wide, the steering wheel vibrates along with a flashing warning message (no beeps)
- when a solid line has been crossed, braking may be applied (see p375) - I have not tested this

All above cases are for turn signal not used.

On the Elite (and I assume Tech models), the beep is so soft that it will not be heard with moderate or loud audio, so it is virtually useless (unlike the Forward Collision Warning or Pedestrian Warning). It would be better to have a beep warning setting of soft/normal/high.

My system is operating as advertised and recognizes 90% of lane markings. Anyone with different experiences may want to have the service department investigate.

SideStep

Well Stated. I have explored this feature in my car and have found the above summary to be accurate. My car is equipped with the Advanced package. When selecting "Warning only" in the settings menu, I will receive 4-5 fast beeps as an alert when crossing a lane marking along with the visual warning on the dash.. As stated, no steering corrections by the car in this mode. This mode works as LDW as described in the owners manual. When I select something other than "Warning only" in the settings menu, I do get the steering corrections and no beeps. I feel this is the enhanced mode described as RDM, available in the Advanced model.

lsbuffs

Having the LDW work 1 time out of 20 sounds about like my experience. I just returned from a Denver-Vail road trip and got the LDW warning a single time. This despite purposely crossing over lines (both dotted and solid) when traffic allowed. I'm eagerly looking forward to hearing what your service people say.

By the way, mileage on Normal mode was 38.4mpg for the roundtrip. I had it near 39mpg, but lost a few in the transition from highway to city driving as I neared my home.

MedX172

That's impressive gas mileage! Did you do it in Normal or Econ?


I'll keep you posted on what they find out, rest assured.

tlxsteve

I was able to get 38.3 in Sport mode. I was pleasantly surprised.

MedX172

Update:


Okay, so the TLX went in today regarding the issues above. It would appear that my authorized 3M tinting professionals may have sprayed some fluid that seeped into the camera housing and created a drip on the camera lens.


When you mix spots on the lens with sun glare, it creates star bursts and distortions that the adversely affect the cameras abilities to interpret the road lines. They cleaned the camera lens and area around it and test drove it. It would appear that the Tech logged about 15-20 miles testing the results. They state that the systems are functioning now. They also stated that if they removed the camera cover and bumped it, the system could require a 'manual alignment' procedure which would not be covered under warranty.


I was very grateful that they cleaned everything free of charge when in my opinion, they didn't have to do so. I stopped at the Tint place on the way home and informed them of the issue and showed them the documentation. They were incredibly apologetic and I told them I would keep them informed of the situation. They did state that they do not remove any of the black outer covering when doing the job, however, they do use soapy water to install the film.


This puts me in a rather interesting situation should I continue to have problems. Acura is going to say that they removed the cover and likely bumped the camera assembly during the tinting process. The Tinting people are going to say that they didn't do it and only sprayed water.
My concern is that I'd end up with neither of them wanting to address the issue (with their wallets) and I'd end up busting out the checkbook.


On the way home, I tried to get LDW to work; it was all surface streets <35mph but it didn't go off at all. I'm not sure if the system only engages at higher speeds. I know low speed alerts on the Accord were annoying. I'll test more and report back. I know that when most of us detail our cars we don't use copious amounts of cleaner like what's used in tinting projects, but just keep in mind that this specific area of the car is moisture sensitive to some degree.

tlxsteve

You put tint on the front windshield? I just tinted the sides and rear. I guess you tinted above the A line?

I heard that LDW works differently on a V6. On the I4 I believe you have to be over 45mph.

Rocketsfan

MedX172, LDW is only going to engage when going at least 45 mph. See if you can do it on an interstate with no traffic around to test it if you can.

MedX172

I had 3M's crystalline installed and love it. I had the entire front window filmed in it at CR70 and the sides/rear at CR40. The solar energy rejection and infrared rejection is unreal. It's actually better at heat rejection than 5% limo tint. I saw a demo where they compared 5% limo to the CR70 when exposed to a halogen heat lamp. The CR70 mitigated all of it and you could still feel the heat boiling through on the 5% limo tint.

MedX172

Thanks Rocketsfan/Steve, I'll try it on the interstate tomorrow. I don't think I got above 40mph on the surface streets on the evening commute.

tlxsteve

Wow! That is incredible. I didn't know you could tint the front window completely. I would figure we have loads of sun and radiation down here in Florida. No one ever mentioned this type of tint before. Incredible. I will have to tell my friends and my tint guy. I guess it helps you immensely to protect against snow blindness. Most of our sun down here comes straight down where a lot of yours is reflected. Seems like it would help for our boats on the water. I learned something new.

Thanks.

MedX172

It's definitely great stuff Steve. I moved to San Francisco from Northern Florida, so I'm really familiar with the heat and humidity. I think this tint product would be great in Florida. I'm sure you've experienced one of those trips up I-75 on a sunny day, with your arm resting on the window sill, only to arrive at your destination with sunburn. This product does a great job mitigating those things. We don't really have snow in the Bay Area, but we do experience that straight down sun like in Florida. It's sneaky here, though. There's no humidity to remind you to go indoors so the UV index pushes 10 and people fry like bacon here.


The only downside about Crystalline is that it doesn't reduce glare as much as some other tints. It's better with the CR40, but on my last car I did CR70 on all the windows (not windshield) to be completely California legal. This time, after seeing that the vast majority of cops will let you slide as long as they can still see in the vehicle, I decided to take my chances and go lower.


It seems to be a very popular product with Tesla owners out here. Because having this tint on your vehicle actually causes your A/C to work less and it translates into fuel (or battery) savings.


Technically, California doesn't allow any tint on the front window below the AS1 line. CR90 is actually less tinted than the existing tint in the OEM glass. The department of transportation "DOT" says that you can apply a protective coating as long as the total VLT doesn't go darker than 70%, so you could apply CR90 and still be legal. I opted for CR70 because I did want some more reduction without being dangerous. If measured it is likely to come in slightly below 70% (+/-2%). CR90 insures compliance.


It's pretty ridiculous that these laws haven't been modified. I of course, understand the necessity for Law enforcement to be able to see into vehicles for their safety, but passing laws that say you can have no tint on front windows or the windshield is absurd. Considering the rapidly increasing cases of skin melanoma in the United States, we need to do everything possible to prevent cancer.

MedX172

Update:


I did get a lane departure this morning when testing on the way to work. My Interstate time is pretty short, so I need more testing.


I have noticed that LKAS doesn't seem to readily "lock" with solid white lines that often, though. ACC seems to be functioning normally again. I even used LSF down to a stop and it worked beautifully.

tlxsteve

MedX172, thanks for the information. I didn't know all this about window tint and have lived in Florida my whole life, so far. Does it affect your view of the road when the tint gets older? I had one car, a long time ago, where the tint looked almost opaque after a few years. I had it removed and re-done under warranty luckily.

Sorry for getting your location wrong. Seems like most of the people I "talk with", live in Canada. I have been to San Fran. Seen fog once but no snow. That is the only place I have ever had to curb my tires. It is a pretty city.